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When the people of Iraq rise up against the foreign invaders, how will you stand?

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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 08:52 AM
Original message
When the people of Iraq rise up against the foreign invaders, how will you stand?
Question of the hour.
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jimshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. We must kill them for their own good.
Please do not take this as a serious answer. This might however be a response by neocon central aka the admin and mcSame.
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Stanchetalarooni Donating Member (838 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
2. With the Lakota? The Cheyenne? The Iroquois?
We are and always have been a nation of Imperialism. Will you withdraw from your home when any of these Native Americans come knocking?
New question. Just how does one stand?
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orangerevolution Donating Member (282 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
3. Do you have a link?
I would really like to see on what you are basing that question. Might be useful to push that along with this message.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Today...
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-03/25/content_7857324.htm

Iraq's Sadr threatens "civil disobedience"

www.chinaview.cn 2008-03-25 21:44:54 Print

Special report: Tension escalates in Iraq

BAGHDAD, March 25 (Xinhua) -- Iraq's radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr Tuesday called on Iraqis to hold sit-ins across Iraq if attacks by U.S. and Iraqi troops continue against his followers, a Sadr statement said.

"We call on all Iraqis to stage sit-ins in all over the country as a first step, so if the government would not respect our people's demands, the second step would be civil disobedience in Baghdad and all other provinces," Sadr said in a statement read out by senior aide Hazim al-Araji.

The statement warned that there would be a third step, but he did not specify what it would be, only saying "after that we will wait for the third step, which will be declared in time."

Late on Monday, Mazin al-Saadi, a spokesman for the Sadr office in al-Karkh area in western Baghdad, said that sit-ins began in some areas in Karkh and would move to other areas in Baghdad as well as other provinces if the government fails to meet the demands of Sadrists.

(...)

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http://www.agoravox.com/article.php3?id_article=7918

Sadrists’ Civil Disobedience Campaign

On Tuesday morning, major clashes broke out between government security forces and local Basra militias (including the Mahdi Army) that sent black smoke billowing in the air above the oil port. A strict curfew was imposed and schools were closed. Reuters reports:

’ "Basra is half empty. There are no vehicles and no one is going to work. People are afraid to go out," said a military official in the city, speaking on condition of anonymity. A hospital source said "tens of wounded" were arriving at hospitals and that some were too busy to accept more casualties. ’

Al-Hayat reports in Arabic that the Sadr Movement announced a "civil disobedience" campaign on Monday in every region of Iraq. The Sadr Movement follows Shiite cleric Sayyid Muqtada al-Sadr. The movement is complaining that the government continues to target is supporters.

McClatchy reports of Baghdad:
’ On Monday, the Sadrists all but shut down the neighborhoods they control on the west bank of Baghdad. Gunmen went to stores and ordered them to close as militiamen stood in the streets. Mosques used their loudspeakers to urge people to come forward and join the protest. Fliers were distributed with the Sadrists’ three demands of the Iraqi government: to release detainees, stop targeting Sadrist members and apologize to the families and the tribal sheiks of the men. ’

On Monday Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki arrived in Basra at the head of a big security force, at the beginning of the major security sweep of that city that produced Tuesday’s fighting. It is being rumored, al-Hayat says, that the prime minister is planning to remove the military commander in the city, Gen. Mohan Hafiz al-Furayji, as well as the police chief, Major-Gen. Abdul Jalil Khalaf. UPI says that he will attempt to institute a tighter command and control structure in the city. Although the US had been putting pressure on Britain to send some of its troops from the airport back into Basra city, Gordon Brown appears to have resisted Washington’s blandishments in this regard. The US military is concerned that if security collapses in Basra, it could cause the center-north to unravel, as well (this calculation is correct).

Michael Schwartz shows how Bush crippled Baghdad.

(... go there for the additional links ...)

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http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2008-03-25-iraq-tuesday_N.htm

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http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1725296,00.html

Maliki's Moment of Truth in Basra
Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2008
By BOBBY GHOSH/BAGHDAD

Iraqi police in the southern city of Basra.
ESSAM AL-SUDANI / AFP / Getty Image

The massive operation by the Iraqi army in Basra could be a defining battle against Shi'ite militias. Reports from the southern city — the hub of Iraq's oil industry and gateway to its main ports — say fierce fighting has broken out between government forces and militias. Eyewitnesses have told TIME of several smoke plumes rising out of the city's northern districts, and the sound of explosions and gunfire. Iraqi TV channels have shown images of helicopters flying over the city, and troops sweeping through some streets. At least 22 people were killed, and 58 wounded, in the fighting.

Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki arrived in Basra on Monday, accompanied by his ministers for defense and the interior, to personally supervise the operation. For Maliki, this is a crucial show of force. For much of the past three years, the Iraqi government has had little influence over Basra. As British troops have steadily withdrawn from the city, it has fallen into the control of three major Shi'ite militias — Moqtada al'Sadr's Mahdi Army, the Iran-backed Badr Brigades and a local group associated with the Fadila Party. The three have recently fought turf battles over large swathes of the city, claiming hundreds of lives.

Although there are over 4,000 British troops at a base outside Basra, they have done little to curb the violence. "We have a capacity to provide air and other specialist support if needed, but at this time British involvement is minimal," a British Ministry of Defense spokesman said, declining to be identified in accordance with department policy. Many Iraqis blame Basra's descent into chaos on flawed British strategy. They contend that in their haste to draw down forces, the British did little to train and bolster the local police force. Instead, many militia fighters were recruited into the police, making the force a part of Basra's problems rather than a solution.

The "Related Articles" from Time:


An Ominous Milestone in Iraq

As the US death toll reaches 4,000, a spurt of attacks over Easter weekend raises fears that, as one Baghdad resident put it, "in a minute ... we can fall into hell again"

Making a Move Against Shi’ite Militias

Children stand near a burnt vehicle after a U.S. military air strike in Baghdad’s Sadr City August 8...
Basra After the British

An Iraqi policeman gestures with a gun as fire and smoke rises at an oil facility in Basra, August 4...
Iraq Militias Fighting for Supremacy

Members of the joint Iraqi security forces a road block after unidentified gunmen open fire to threa...
The Mahdi Militia: Quiet But Not Gone

Newly graduated Iraqi soldiers parade at Bismaya military camp in the southeaste...

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
4. With the troops.
Bring them home.
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clevbot Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. yeah, bring the troops home
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BreweryYardRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. What he said.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
29. With all the troops? Including with the ones committing atrocities?
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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
7. sure would be nice
if Al Sadr and a few others would get smart and declare a real truce, say 'we gotta work this out' and then all together tell the US to get the fuck out. Guarantee safe passage, just say "here's the door"

I think bushcheney would refuse to go, and maybe then the American populace would have the nerve to also stand up to them.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. yes, it would...
Unfortunately it doesn't usually work that way. (Most) People are not saints, and I don't at all think Sadr is one, either.

Does the violence from the Iraqi sides change anything in the fact that the United States regime launched an unprovoked, criminal war of aggression on a distant nation and its people, with plunder as the object, and today has nothing to give to make up for the horror visited upon those millions of dead, wounded and shattered other than an orderly withdrawal, a trial of the perpetrators, and the payment of reparations?
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. By the way, how do you know that isn't exactly what they are trying to do?
If they did, would you be reading about it in the press?
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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Oh, I think it is
Or at least i hope it is. I don't know if there are enough really strong leaders to pull it off - it might be like our two dem candidates trying to "make nice" - five minutes later the supporters are back at each others throats.

The US is in the awful position of having absolutely screwed up, having conducted a war of choice that will go into history along with others that "live in infamy" and we cannot put the genie back in the bottle. As you say, the MOST we can do is apologize and go away. We are too broke even to try to pay for the damage we caused.

Trying the criminals would be a good start toward national redemption, but like Nuremburg, it would be only the start of a long process, not the end of it.

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dkofos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
8. On my feet, as far away from Iraq as I can get.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DavidDvorkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Incoming!
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Do you think that's funny?
Because, of course, it is exactly the reverse - it is they who suffer the maximum possible casualties, and for whom there is little regard amongst our people, and your response is to style an American genocide into American victimhood (or at any rate to get this thread locked).
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. I'm laughing my ass off over here. Thanks for asking. n/t
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. *snerf*
You're a bad person.

;)
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
16. The Battle For Basra & Iraq’s Oil
http://www.democracynow.org/2007/12/6/the_battle_for_basra_iraqs_oil

"AMY GOODMAN: British authorities are preparing to cede control over the southern Iraqi city of Basra this month. But behind the transfer of power lies a struggle between three of the largest Shia political parties in Iraq: the Supreme Islamic Iraqi Council, which is America’s key Shia ally and was created and funded by Iran; the nationalist Sadrist Current led by Muqtada al-Sadr; and the Islamic Virtue Party, which controls the Basra governorate and is linked to the Oil Workers’ Union.
The battle for Basra is a battle for Iraq’s oil. With over 80% of the country’s known oil reserves, Basra holds the key to Iraq’s economy. Without its revenues, the central government in Baghdad would collapse. The struggle for power in Basra is central to the larger battle for control in the new Shia-dominated Iraq.


This is a report from Basra by independent filmmaker Rick Rowley of Big Noise Films. It was produced for Al Jazeera English by David Enders, Hiba Dawood and Rick Rowley, with the support of the Pulitzer Center on Crisis Reporting...


RICK ROWLEY:

...So who is fighting here? And what is the battle for Basra about? Basra is Iraq’s economy. 80% of Iraq’s proven oil reserves are in Basra. And last year, its exports brought $31 billion to Baghdad. That’s 93% of the federal budget. What is at stake is control over massive oil revenues. Without Basra, the central government in Baghdad would collapse...


PROF. JUAN COLE: What we’re going to see in the next few years is a battle, because if the Supreme Council could pick up all the pieces in the south, then it would have the Federal Oil Ministry and it would have the Basra oil facilities. And the problem that it faces is that at the grassroots level, everything that I’ve heard suggests that the Sadr movement is becoming more and more popular and the Mahdi Army is spreading. And so, you’re going to have potentially a big clash between where the people are and where the provincial government administrations are in the south..."









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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
18. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. sounds an awful lot like the rationalization for exterminating Native Americans
It is THEIR fucking country. We are INVADERS.

If they turn on us, well, there may be cases where self preservation requires fighting ones way out, but leaving - pronto - is the ONLY justifiable option. Taking a stand to hold territory or going on the offensive in the name of "self defense" is total bullshit.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Sorry did this wrong
Edited on Tue Mar-25-08 11:33 AM by bryant69
Yep. It's tribalism. I'm in favor of getting out of Iraq, but I don't have any direct control over that. But if it comes down to an American or an Iraqi dying, I'll pick the American.
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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. "if it comes down to an American or an Iraqi dying, I'll pick the American. "
did you attend the george w bush school of sentence structure?
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Yeah I fucked up.
Damn. Oh well.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
21. I guess I'm nott allowed to respond to this question?
How about this "Abortions for some. Miniature American Flags for others?"

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
25. aren't they doing this now, to protect their country.
Edited on Tue Mar-25-08 01:20 PM by alyce douglas
weird isn't our country being invaded and taken over too, by our own DC terrorists. How will you stand? appropriate question.

to answer your question: bring the troops home.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
26. Fighting continued today... (nt)
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
27. It's the same thing as China and Tibet.
And we are China.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Not even the Dalai Lama is an angel, let alone Moqtada
but who can say they have less legitimacy in speaking for their people, or a part of their people, than the occupiers?
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
30. With human life.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
31. Fighting goes on today...
reports of massacres by government army in Basra. Tens of thousands protesting in streets of Baghdad.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
32. Today the US is bombing the city of Basra
"to expel insurgents." Casualties are all terrorists or collateral, there is never an intent to kill.

U.S. Planes Attack Militia Strongholds in Basra Fighting

By ERICA GOODE
Published: March 29, 2008

BAGHDAD —American military forces conducted air strikes on targets in Basra late Thursday, joining for the first time an onslaught by Iraqi security forces intended to oust Shiite militias in the southern port city.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/29/world/middleeast/29iraq.html?_r=1&ref=world&oref=slogin
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
33. Mar 29: "NPR reports al-Maliki forced to evacuate his battle HQ in Basra"
From this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3078584

It appears things aren't going too well for Iraq's "War Prime Minister" and his "evenhanded" crackodown on crime. Notice, before al-Maliki's war was simply a police action to put "rogue" Shiite elements in Basra out of business, but now, less than 72 years later, the Madhi army is "worse than al-Qaeda."
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