When craigslist goes bad

[central scrutinizer]

It goes very, very bad

http://registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.cms.support.viewStory.cls?cid=83242&sid=1&fid=1

ACKSONVILLE — A pair of hoax ads on craigs­list cost an Oregon man much of what he owned.

The ads popped up Saturday afternoon, saying the owner of a Jacksonville home was forced to leave the area suddenly and his belongings, including a horse, were free for the taking, Jackson County sheriff’s Detective Sgt. Colin Fagan said.

But Robert Salisbury had no plans to leave. The independent contractor was at Emigrant Lake when he got a call from a woman who had stopped by his house to claim his horse.

On his way home he stopped a truck loaded down with his work ladders, lawn mower and weed eater.

“I informed them I was the owner, but they refused to give the stuff back,” Salisbury said. “They showed me the craigs­list printout and told me they had the right to do what they did.”

The driver sped away after rebuking Salisbury. As he continued on to his home, he spotted other cars filled with his belongings.

Once there, he was greeted by close to 30 people rummaging through his barn and front porch.

.............

[question everything]

1. It is time for Cariglist to put some kind of guidelines on its ads

a disclaimer: I have never used it or even visited it as either a seller or a buyer.

But an ad like that has to be checked out, perhaps run it by the local police?

[selador]

3. i gotta disagree

fwiw, i've investigated a couple of craigslist (and ebay ) frauds

the answer is NOT more regulations. simply put, without putting ridiculous resrtictions on free trade and privacy, you CAN'T eliminate con artists. they've always existed and always will.

ditto for the "run it by the local police". do you really want (i say as somebody with over 20 yrs of LEO experience) COPS screening ads?

that's about as frigging orwellian as you can get.

caveat frigging emptor.

and VIGOROUSLY pursue the criminals.

but prior restraint on 10 trillion law abiding people to TRY to prevent con artists from plying their trade is not in the interest of justice or freedom imo

[question everything]

4. Like pornography, you know one when you see one

No, not every ad should be run for the cops' opinion, of course.

But I think that such an ad begs for a "say what?"

[selador]

7. generally speaking

if it looks too good to be true, it aint

otoh, good con artists know this. they won't make it TOO good to be true. just good enough to entice.

[pitohui]

9. ads are not checked out on craigslist before you post

you do understood that it would be impossible for the site to work the way you suggest?

whenever i post an ad, i put it up, it goes up within a few minutes -- no one at craigslist has ever met me or knows who the fuck i am -- the person responding to my ad contacts me, we exchange phone numbers and talk, and we take it from there

the folks who showed up at the house without talking to the guy or to the sheriff first probably knew that they were stealing but hoped to get away with it

but there is nobody checking ads at craigslist, it isn't a person, it appears to be some kind of computer program

you would destroy the usefulness of craigslist and turn a free service, badly needed by some of us who have little funds, into yet another for fee service if you had to hire employees to check stuff out

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

12. Craigs list does had guidelines..

http://www.craigslist.org/about/terms.of.use.html

--
You agree not to post, email, or otherwise make available Content:

g) that impersonates any person or entity, including, but not limited to, a
craigslist employee, or falsely states or otherwise misrepresents your
affiliation with a person or entity (this provision does not apply to Content
that constitutes lawful non-deceptive parody of public figures.);"
--

As to checking out adds by police? dont they have enough to do?


As for these criminals: “I informed them I was the owner, but they refused to give the stuff back,” Salisbury said. “They showed me the craigs­list printout and told me they had the right to do what they did.”

This is why I *hate* it when people throw around the term 'right' so loosely..

[InvisibleTouch]

2. The reason I hate Craig's List...

...is because there's no feedback system in place. There's no way to tell if a buyer or seller is legit. I've used it out of desperation now and again, but can't count the number of times people e-mail me saying they want my item, and I write them back, and then I never hear from them again. And since I want to be fair and offer the sale to the first responder, I end up leaving other potential buyers waiting and moving on to the next seller. I guess you get what you pay for, though, since the listings are free. Ebay is barrelling toward the opposite extreme - so many safeguards and fees in place that it becomes more and more difficult to sell anything at a profit. It's becoming a very cushy environment for buyers, but lousy for sellers. There's got to be a happy medium somewhere!

[arikara]

6. I've not had much problem with the online lists

But I never consider the first email response from someone as a definite sale. When the buyer emails, I give them my phone number and times to call when we'll be home. Whoever calls then is more serious and usually does come when agreed upon. Anyone else, I tell them its spoken for but that I'll contact them if it falls through.

[pitohui]

10. i don't email around with people, they need to send me a local phone number

i'm not obligated to wait on people in turn in a line, i'm not a store, when i put something on craigslist it's a very good price for something i need removed, such as an old vehicle i recently sold

the person needs to send me a phone # where he or she can be reached, the person needs to answer their phone and sound like a reasonable person who is going to 1) show up and 2)give me my price without haggling, and then i'll set up the meet

they screw around with email, don't send a phone number, don't appear to be close to my house, don't pick up the phone, whatever -- too bad, so sad, i've already called the next person

i don't give out my address until i have a time and date that the person is going to show up, i just give the general area, explaining "please call before you leave to come over here and i'll give you complete directions"

works for me

ebay is useless, the fees and shipping costs have taken all the profit out of it, and i used to be a regular seller in the 90s but greed destroyed them, they're not about the little guy now

[Ghost in the Machine]

5. The honchos at Craigslist, including Craig Newmark, *should* be able to help identify

whoever posted the ad. When you sign up at craigslist your account has to be a week old before you can post an ad so this had to be planned in advance or it was someone with an established account. Shouldn't be hard to track the IP address and email address of the person who posted it.

They need to start looking at people who may have been unsatisfied with some of Mr. Salisbury's work, since he was an independent contractor. It could have been a disgruntled customer... or employee. The person of interest would be a neglected wife/girlfriend, in my mind. It had to be someone who knew when he was going to be gone. When they catch the person, they need to make him/her pay for every piece of equipment that got taken.

[selador]

8. ive dealt with these cases before

most people are smart enough to anonymize their IP or use a public computer (library, etc.)

the stupid ones get caught.

[pitohui]

11. this is sooo not going to happen

you have never been the victim of a robbery, have you?

the police don't have time or money to investigate these cases, and they tell you outright they won't investigate them, they give you a claim number you can give to your insurance company, otherwise you're on their own

all their budget has to go to solving violent crimes

[KG]

13. i wonder who this guy pissed off?

[wolfgangmo]

14. I'm not a big 2nd amendment fan, but...

... I would have pulled my piece on those bastards who said my shit was their shit because of a CL ad.

A cop once told me just to make sure that the TV was in their dead hands before calling him.

Just sayin.

[depakid]

15. Always deal locally face to face with the owner

and be sure they have proof of ownership (craiglist is notorious for selling stolen bikes, for example).

Here are their recommendations:

Avoiding scams and fraud

You can sidestep would-be scammers by following these common-sense rules:

* DEAL LOCALLY WITH FOLKS YOU CAN MEET IN PERSON - follow this one simple rule and you will avoid 99% of the scam attempts on craigslist.

* NEVER WIRE FUNDS VIA WESTERN UNION, MONEYGRAM or any other wire service - anyone who asks you to do so is a scammer.

* FAKE CASHIER CHECKS & MONEY ORDERS ARE COMMON, and BANKS WILL CASH THEM AND THEN HOLD YOU RESPONSIBLE when the fake is discovered weeks later.

* CRAIGSLIST IS NOT INVOLVED IN ANY TRANSACTION, and does not handle payments, guarantee transactions, provide escrow services, or offer "buyer protection" or "seller certification"

* NEVER GIVE OUT FINANCIAL INFORMATION (bank account number, social security number, eBay/PayPal info, etc.)

* AVOID DEALS INVOLVING SHIPPING OR ESCROW SERVICES and know that ONLY A SCAMMER WILL "GUARANTEE" YOUR TRANSACTION.
-----------------

Curiously enough, I'm in the market for a small car to keep states side. Someone had an ad for a low mileage Honda civic at a very attractive price. Here's the response I got to my initial inquiry:

Thank you for your interes of the purchase of my car .The problem is that in the meanwhile I had to move with my family in Michigan where I got a new job . The car has a CLEAR and CLEAN TITLE a great history and mechanically without any problems ever safety check and pre-delivery inspection along with a fresh servicing before I ship or deliver the vehicle.I offer free shipping to any US location .If you are interested to buy it please let me know your decision as I have alot of other offers and need to find a buyer soon.Looking forward to hear soon from you.
Thank you!

I figured this was probably a scam- so I asked specifically whether the seller was local:

Hello,
The car is at the shipping company to World Pay in Michigan . Now let me tell you how we will proceed: I will proceed with delivery the car to your place.The shipping will be done via DAS and i will suport all charges for delivery the car to your place and it will take no more then 1-2 working days. The car will be delivered directly to your address and you will have one week the period of inspection. I need your full name and full shipping address (street, city, zip, state) and phone # so i can forward to WorldPay Department to open a case for our deal and they will contact you. Thanks for your interest and i'm waiting your email.

Apparently, craiglist got wise to this, because when I checked the listings today, this appeared:

< ALERT - offers to ship cars/trucks are fraudulent >

Duh!

Makes me wonder how many fools fell for it....