35 weapons seized from home

[Mugu]

BY MATTHEW VAN DUSEN

RUTHERFORD — Police seized a cache of 35 weapons on Tuesday, including illegally modified assault rifles and machine guns from the Hastings Avenue apartment of a gun collector, authorities said.

The State Police Street Gang Unit North and borough detectives found an armory of loaded guns and 3,000 rounds of ammunition in the apartment of Joseph Leone, 57.

snip

Leone was charged with possessing and manufacturing assault weapons and machine guns, and was being held in the Bergen County Jail on $50,000 bail.

Ryan said police turned their attention to Leone, who had no criminal record, when questions were raised about "whether he's in the right frame of mind to be in possession of weapons."


Complete article at:
http://www.northjersey.com/news/crimeandcourts/35_weapons_seized_from_home.html

[jody]

1. "3,000 rounds of ammunition"! My guess is there is less to this than reported. n/t

[TheWraith]

2. There was a guy awhile back who threatened to shoot tree-trimmers working on his property

On a power company right-of-way. Guy was 78 years old or thereabouts. When they searched his house, they found around 200 guns and one MILLION rounds of ammunition.

And oh, yeah--a Nazi flag.

[Hangingon]

3. A MILLION rounds - must have been a large house.

[jody]

9. Or mostly .22 rimfire in bricks of 500.

n/t

[TheWraith]

14. Not necessarily.

If you assume an average volume of one cubic inch per bullet--much larger than, say, a .22 rifle round or pistol ammo but smaller than high-performance military ammo--then you'd need about 578 cubic feet to store 1 million rounds, which you could do in a normal sized basement or attic. The guns themselves could easily have been more bulky.

[Mugu]

5. When I read 3,000 rounds of ammo I was thinking

slacker.

Regards, Mugu

[slackmaster]

28. Same here

I probably have about 50,000.

And 35 firearms isn't much of a collection.

[RaleighNCDUer]

8. Ammo you can get.

Its the full auto weapons that are hard to get your hands on. Sounds like he was in the business of dealing guns, not ammo.

But there's something wrong here. It's IMPOSSIBLE for people to own fully automatic weapons in this country. You've said so yourself. Would this gun dealer and collector REALLY break the law?

[jody]

10. I've never said law-abiding citizens could not own automatic firearms. I'm familiar with 26 USC

chapter 53.

[RaleighNCDUer]

17. But in these 'discussions' you've always maintained that there

CAN'T be all those full auto weapons out on the street, because they're illegal without all that paperwork.

Just goes to show, paperwork be damned - if people want full auto, they'll find it. It's there. Just like the thing the other day, about auto weapons being smuggled into Mexico - can't happen, because controls are too tight here, must be fiction.

There are a lot of illegal weapons dealers out there, and many of those illegal weapons dealers are legal weapons dealers. Ya see, there's no money to be made in NOT selling guns to all comers.

[jody]

20. You have me mixed up with someone else. Have a nice day, n/t

[benEzra]

30. He could have been illegally manufacturing them, if he did indeed possess them...

if he's in illegal possession, he certainly didn't just buy them from a gun shop, as possession of a post-1986 automatic weapon outside of police/military/government duty is an automatic 10-year Federal felony. You can get Federal authorization to possess one (lots of red tape involved), but you'll pay $15,000 and up, they can only be sold by specially licensed dealers, your local chief law enforcement officer has to sign off on your application, you can't take it out of state without Federal permission, and the BATFE gets to inspect your paperwork once a year.

If they were illegal, they could have been illegally manufactured or converted (a skilled machinist with tools can make a gun and/or fire control parts from scratch). They could have also been illegally smuggled into this country, either by someone returning from Iraq, or years ago by someone returning from Vietnam or WW2.

Still, illegal automatic weapons are almost unheard of in street crime in this country; most instances of "automatic weapons" in news stories turn out to be non-automatic.

[MaryCeleste]

19. Actually its not illegal to own fully automatic weapons

Its damned expensive and illegal in some jurisdictions, but it is possible for some

There are also dealer licensed to deal in automatic weapons, not many, but they are out there, mostly to seel to police agencies

[Mojorabbit]

4. I wonder who turned him in

3000 rounds is not excessive with the amt of guns he collected. Converting them to full auto is a definate no no.

[Possumpoint]

12. I have one gun

and maybe 150 rounds of ammunition for it. Use to frequently go to the local indoor range and shoot. Darn place burned down last year. If I had 30 weapons, at that rate, I'd have 4500 rounds. For someone who shoots frequently that doesn't seem that unreasonable.

[sharesunited]

6. Anyone who is this obsessed with guns

is obviously not right in the head. I don't know about the need to criminally prosecute, but please take the firepower away.

[SteveM]

26. At what point does any gun owner become "obsessed...not right in the head"?

[zanne]

7. Well, I feel safer

Knowing there are law-abiding gun owners collecting illegal machine guns to keep us all safe. :sarcasm:

[MercutioATC]

11. The owner wasn't "law-abiding"...that's the point.

He was arrested. This has nothing to do with people who legally own guns. This man was illegally modifying them.

[zanne]

16. The owner "had no record". nt

[slackmaster]

27. He does now

:hi:

[Ghost in the Machine]

32. Please tell us all that you're not really this ignorant..

Many people "had no record" before getting their first DUI, although they probably drank and drove too many times to count before they got caught. This doesn't make them "law abiding" people, it makes them "criminals who hadn't been caught yet". Same goes for shoplifters, robbers, etc....

Answer one question here... if someone steals something every time they go to the grocery store, but hasn't been caught yet, does that make the person a "criminal".. or does it make them a "law abiding person"??

[ThomWV]

13. Folks, I know lots of people who have that many guns

Its nowhere near as unusual as you might imagine. I think at one time I had about 20 of them myself. Now that I think about it the very first time I met my soon to be father-in-law we sat down at the table and he showed me, and gave me the history of, probably close to 100 different guns, including a cap and ball musket with serial number 002 from the Harper's Ferry Arsenal. He had more, but they weren't interesting.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheWraith]

22. Non sequitur much? nt

[terrell9584]

23. there is a huge difference between a gun collection

and a child porn collection.

It doesn't matter if you have an arsenal of howitzers, if you're not going out into the street and aiming at fire hydrants, then you're not hurting society.

Child porn is the deliberate exploitation of children so that troubled individuals can get their jollies from it, some of whom will then try and victimize children.

It's comparing apples and oranges.

[zanne]

29. Owning an arsenal is, at the very least, sick. nt

[SteveM]

25. A couple of years before he died, my Dad and his sons sat around the table...

and divided up the firearms; one was a civil-war era cap 'n' ball and another an .03 .22 semi-auto rifle, made in 1903. It's good that guns are still divvied up in this way because sooner or later you realize your family's history in an emotional way.

[aikoaiko]

15. Does anyone have the Jersey code for "possessing and manufacturing assault weapons and machine guns"

eta: whoops never mind, he did have a fully automatic AK according to the article.

:shrug:

[DainBramaged]

21. ATF trumps State every day

I guess one gun wasn't enough for him.

:shrug:

[apocalypsehow]

24. Ah. Another one of them "law-abiding gun owners" I see.

:eyes:

[chixydix]

31. If he has machine guns without proper authorization he is NOT "law abiding."

Is that too complex for you to grasp?