are you sick of "high priced" teachers? try this on???

[greenbriar]

Are you sick of high paid teachers?

Teachers' hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or 10 months a year! It's time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do - baby sit!

We can get that for less than minimum wage. That's right. Let's give them $3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend on class work before or after school.

That would be $19.50 a day (7:45to 3:00 PM with 45 min. off for lunch and plan -- that equals 6 1/2 hours). Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children.

Now how many do they teach in day...maybe 30? So that's $19.50 x 30 = $585.00 a day. However, remember they only work
180 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations.
LET'S SEE.... That's $585 X 180= $105,300 per year. (Hold on!
My calculator needs new batteries).

What about those special education teachers and the ones with Master's degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage ($7.75), and just to be fair, round it off to $8.00 an hour. That would be $8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children X 180 days =
$280,800 per year.

Wait a minute -- there's something wrong here!
There sure is! The average teacher's salary (nationwide) is $50,000. $50,000/180 days = $277.77/per day/30 students=$9. 25/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student --a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your kids!)

WHAT A DEAL....

[flvegan]

1. Edit. Sorry.

Didn't go past $19.50 before I went over the edge.

My mom was a teacher for 23 years, and it pisses me off when folk say they get paid too much.

[senseandsensibility]

5. Freepers wouldn't post this.

It's saying that teachers deserve more than 105,000 a year, even if they are doing nothing but baby-sitting.

[flvegan]

12. Sorry, my bad. I honestly couldn't make it past $19.50 a day.

Sent me over the edge THAT fast.

I'll edit my post.

Again, apologies.

[senseandsensibility]

15. No problem!

:hi:

[Speck Tater]

7. Doesn't sound at all freeperish to me.

since it's clearly arguing for HIGHER teacher salaries.

What on earth is your beef?

[MNDemNY]

9. Did you forget something?

Maybe this::sarcasm: ?

[TheWraith]

10. Read the rest of the thing. nt

[Ichingcarpenter]

11. What a bunch of right wing crap

Why did you post this?

[leftofcool]

18. Uh re-read this please

[lapfog_1]

21. read it again

it is sarcasm!

(or maybe your response was sarcasm?)

It's saying that IF parents paid teachers to babysit at below minimum wage, teachers would earn $105,000 or more...

On a serious note, the examples use 30 students per class... at the local school where my niece attends, it's only about 22 students per class.

[greenbriar]

23. through the course of the day, I teach 160 8th graders

I would LOVE that pay scale

[leftofcool]

26. No shit

8th graders...........bless your heart!

[greenbriar]

30. 8th grade Social Studies no less

the one subject they think they hate

till they take my class :)


I get kids all the time asking to transfer to my class from the other 8th grade ss teacher


they say ...you do cool stuff and projects, the other teacher just complains about how poor she is...



I do work with the other teacher a lot and know that not to be the case, so I just smile and say thanks but Ms XXX is doing the same things as me

[lapfog_1]

31. You have 160 students in ONE class from 8am till 3pm??

That's sick... and criminal!

[greenbriar]

33. no, i Have 6 different classes for 41 minutes each

and through the course of the day will have taught 160 8th graders social studies each day

[AwakeAtLast]

64. Through the course of a week I see over 800

I would LOVE it, too! :hi:

[Ichingcarpenter]

24. Yeah, sorry reread it .... I've seen both of them right wing and reality.

and skimmed it quickly. I ASSumed too quickly and Being a part-time teacher but long time teacher
I've seen too many attacks on teachers lately on DU.....Sorry.

My apologies to Greenbrair.

[greenbriar]

28. thanks for the apology...AS a teacher, I would not have posted anything

bad about our profession

[greenbriar]

13. you obviously didn't read it

did you

[Ichingcarpenter]

29. No, I skimmed it

too quickly and got angry
I apologized upstream

[politicallore]

39. Guys making the Federal... change this is STUPID... fight for your local schools... My high school..

Teachers made 75,000 easy... Some started at 50,000 yes, but had very high, and good pay increases...
There were even teachers making 90,000. A year...

We did this at the LOCAL level...

Please, setting a government mandate... would just kill the whole system...
It would be just like the abstence only money... ridiculous!!!
Dont let them mess, with our children!

[samdogmom]

51. Really! A teacher making $75,000-90,000+ per year!!!????

Where do you live? I think a lot of highly educated folks may want to join your community!

[greenbriar]

53. no kidding

I hoover around 50 k and that is 10 years experience with a Masters

[politicallore]

82. Move to southern seacost NH... that is all I am saying ;) But I am not lying.... It gone done

[leftofcool]

2. We kept this posted in the teachers lounge 24/7

[greenbriar]

6. I got it laminated and on my bulletin board

I only wish we got paid like that :)

[leftofcool]

17. LOL!

When I first started teaching, I made 7,500 a year

[Ohio Joe]

3. Teachers are disgustingly underpaid

We should move the military budget to education.

[zanne]

4. That's not counting getting a Master's Degree...

And buying your own classroom supplies because there isn't enough money to go around.

[greenbriar]

8. no kidding

I get in trouble because I buy so much for my classroom

[LWolf]

40. That, too. n/t

[sandnsea]

14. If the teachers want to pay for their own buildings

supplies, and benefits - the way day care workers do.

[AwakeAtLast]

65. The day care workers who cared for my daughter did not pay for any of these things

It was a children's education center for infants through age 5. The facility provided all of those things - just like my school corp. provides to me.

[displacedtexan]

16. I used to tell people I was a seasonal worker... a teacher.

After the stunned silence, I always got a big laugh from people.

They'd never thought of it that way.

[panader0]

19. Some teachers should be paid more

Some should be fired. My grandfather taught college history for 40, my mother high school english for 40. But some of the teachers my kids have had are real lulus. One told them that should only bathe once a week to be healthy. Others spout religious or political crap. Teachers at the elementary level are babysitters to an extent, and many have the mentality of a babysitter.

[selador]

81. i agree. some teachers are excellent

some are terrible, and the vast majority are mediocre.

much like any profession.

fwiw, as a product of both private and public school (the former did NOT require teaching certificates) on the whole the teachers i had in private school were significantly better, but i had good teachers in each.

[HockeyMom]

20. I'm a Special Ed TA

with an Associates, by those calculations I should work for FREE.

[Redstone]

22. I have NEVER thought teachers are overpaid. My state has some of the highest-paid

teachers in the country, and I do NOT mind seeing my taxes pay those salaries.

(As long as they're good teachers, of course.) I know what a difference a good teacher can make in kids' lives, and I think it's well worth paying enough to get good ones.

Redstone

[BlooInBloo]

25. Quadruple teacher pay immediately.

[hfojvt]

27. all the same, I'd love to get $25,000 a year for nine months of work

with a week off for Christmas and a spring break.

Seriously, I just interviewed for a full time job that pays that much, but that's for twelve months of the year and an 8.5 hour workday. And I have a master's degree too. I get a little tired of the old under-paid teacher canard.

[greenbriar]

32. uh we work more like 15 months a year

and we do a HELL of a LOT Of work at home, morning, evenings and weekends...


heck my districts grade program lets us post grades from home to make it easier for us




this weekend, I have to find articles for 47 different writers, inventors ect...for projects next week. Its going to use a hell of a lot of toner and paper from my private printer, but I just don't have the time to do it on my 41 minute plan time

[hfojvt]

36. sorry, I know too many teachers

who vacation all summer, and you do as much work as you want to, to a degree. I have also taught, supposedly part-time, and I noticed it was taking me more time than it should and cut back a little. My roommate gave me a bad time as I was grading papers. The thing is, they didn't have to write papers, except for the fact that I made them because I thought it was good for them. Which meant I had to read and grade them, and I cut back on that too.

"this weekend, I have to find articles for 47 different writers, inventors ect...for projects next week."

So, that is a job you gave to yourself.

And also
ETC.
ETC.
ETC.

It's not ectoplasm. It's etcetera.

(Sorry, a pet peeve of mine.)

[greenbriar]

37. ohhhhhhh I think you are way out of touch

and If I didn't do this project, I would not have enough class days to teach what my students need to know for NCLB and then it would look like I was not a great teacher WHICH I AM


seriously dude, you are way off on this one

[hfojvt]

45. NCLB may have changed things a little

but, are you looking at, or applying for, other non-teaching jobs? You might be a little bit out of touch about what the rest of the working class makes.

[ulysses]

60. come work my job.

Then tell me what a canard you think it is.

[greenbriar]

63. no kidding

those people that think we have cushy jobs would not be able to handle it one week

[zanne]

79. Your argument might make sense if teachers didn't have to supplement their incomes...

By having to find summer jobs.

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. Love it!!

When do I get to sign my contract?

[Omaha Steve]

35. Don't forget a janitor, lunch ladies, music instructor,...

Then there is administration downtown, etc...

[zanne]

80. I know a school janitor who makes more than the teachers. nt

[GreenPartyVoter]

38. I think my mom had a copy of this in her classroom by her desk. :^)

[LWolf]

41. I keep this one posted.

What I'm really sick of is the scapegoating of teachers by the general public, repeating what they've been conditioned to think and say by decades of right-wing anti-public-education propaganda.

Democrats and DU aren't free from it, either. As evident in a few of the replies to this thread.

[greenbriar]

42. so true

especially those who say we only work 9 months and it is our choice the amount of work we give our students




ONE MORE REC>>>>

[LWolf]

44. "Our choice the amount of work we give"

as if we don't have the nation demanding documentation of what we're doing all day long.

:rofl:

[knitter4democracy]

43. I worked out how many of my students were paying me after awhile.

The only teaching job I could find out of college was in the Catholic schools. Over and over I heard about how great I had it and how they all were paying my salary (well, their parents were), so one day, I did the math for an obnoxious group of students and revealed that all of three were paying my salary (this was when I had finally broken $20K/year in 1999). I told my class of 22 that, since only three were paying my salary, they could figure out which three they were so I could teach just them.

That's when I was told a manager at McDonald's made more.

[truedelphi]

52. About ten years ago, I had heard that the starting wage for a HS

teacher in San Jose was $ 85 a day. Of course you would get bennies and what not - but still.

Not the easiest age group!! And less than you would get working at an upscale bakery!

[knitter4democracy]

54. When I started teaching, I made $18, 600.

That was for half medical, even, with anything that compromised my fertility (even to save my life) not covered.

That was in 1997, too, in Cleveland. Our first years of marriage while I taught and Hubby was in med school were rough.

[GOPBasher]

46. This former teacher appreciates this post.

It's an interesting point you illustrated.

[greenbriar]

47. thanks

just one more rec please

[catnhatnh]

48. A good teacher can not be paid enough..

...and a bad teacher is overpaid. In my fairly normal schooling experience I had a single teacher in grades K-6 and 6-7 teachers in middle school thru high school. That makes about 48 teachers I interacted with. I remember 4 fondly, 2 I dreaded/hated, thought another 7-8 to be sub par and another 5-6 to be good. That leaves about 30 in the "adequate" range who made no great impression either way. So probably pretty much a bell curve.
...That's also pretty much what the question is-were (or are) the 30 teachers so unremarkable to not be remembered as good or bad worth the normal salary? I'll say I don't know. As to the part-time summers off nonsense, when someone brings it up they scoff at 180 days a year and I bring up the fact that 52 weekends and two weeks vacation means a "normal" work year is only 251 days which puts things closer to in perspective.
...Basically, I guess my take is that a quarter of my teachers were undercompensated, most paid a good going rate and a quarter should have been fired or shot. Until a merit deal is enacted and wasters and horrors can be fired I guess the compensation is as fair as can be....

[greenbriar]

49. Merit pay for teachers is shit

I work at a Title I school and work my ass off. The students test scores do NOT reflect that


most of our kids we are lucky that they are in school 3 of 5 days . Many don't have the same place to live for more than 3 months at a time, many are hungry, abused or in gangs


there is no score that reflects that

[ulysses]

50. thank you.

Merit pay is no answer.

[catnhatnh]

56. I never endorsed a "score" protocol....

and am not sure what the proper metric would be. But I worked a lifetime in the non-scholastic arena and have seen all teachers more highly paid and more highly secure (until recently) than I was at a journeyman level of my career. As a less guaranteed worker, whose performance was more closely tied to day to day employment I think back on "teachers" who were in fact degreed morons who collected easy checks. Where I worked you were judged every day on performance whereas you will have to admit that many with lesser skills in your proffession were judged on attendance.My best teacher was a sixth grade teacher who eventually introduced a program that had him teaching environmental science to the other five grades once a week in the sixties...But in both third and fourth grade my teachers were both close to certifiable including one who pulled students hair.I'm betting you are good, but until teachers like Mrs. Manson (real name) are driven out I remain skeptical of the process.

[ulysses]

59. what other protocol might you use?

I teach students with identified disabilities. Are you going to hold up my pay until my kids achieve at the level identified by George Bush's Department of Education? Maybe I should come be a "less guaranteed worker" like you.

There are bad teachers, of course. You know why they're still there? Because there aren't enough good teachers to willing to take shit pay to take their place.

[catnhatnh]

62. Am I going to hold up our pay?

Not likely since I've already denounced scores and have never lived in Georgia."There are bad teachers of course". But the problem is never that they should be identified and fired, but rather enough cash isn't fired into the process?If your system can't differentiate then who is wrong?If you treasure each child and the wonder of the educational connection I would expect you to spend time and energy to chase the bad ones out-have you?

[ulysses]

67. thoroughly ridiculous expectation on your part.

I would expect you to spend time and energy to chase the bad ones out-have you?

Gee, no I haven't - I have my hands more than a little full with teaching addition of fractions with uncommon denominators to children who threaten to sic their daddies on me if I give them less than an "A" for "C" work and don't have the time to go on a hunt to root out all the bad teachers in the system. Besides which, I'm a teacher. I don't get to fire other teachers.

Next question.

[MaryCeleste]

61. Without merit pay or some other ranking system, teachers will never be considered true professionals

Right now education is still using the industrial model. Teachers contracts are no different that assembly line workers contracts. No wonder they are not considered professionals by many people. Its a post industrial world out there, and if educator want to be part of it, change is going to be required.

Then there is the silliness that all fields are created equal. That kind of logic is why the physical sciences and most technical fields suffer in schools. Why should a Comp Sci major teach HS when they can make 2X the salary in industry? The claim pay disparities because teachers do not make as much as those with equivalent education is nonsense. An MA in English is not the equivalent of a MSEE. Not even close. To be correct, we should compare what a MA in English makes in marketplace outside of teaching. When you do, you will see that in some fields teachers are actually overpaid compared to the market.

Finally those who claim that rankings and professional evaluations for merit increases are not possible are part of the problem. Every other profession has that, yet somehow it can not be done in education. The teachers themselves need to find acceptable ways to do merit and ranking, if not it will be forced upon them.

Its a harsh rant, but its the real world. NCLB is not the only issue facing education. If public education does not step up to the challenges, expect more charter school, vouchers, etc. And the nation will be the poorer for it.

[ulysses]

68. explain how doctors have "merit increases".

[MaryCeleste]

69. Their income is market based and are primarily self employed, the situation is not analogous

they are not under an industrial contract model
they are not claiming pay inequities
field differential is the norm in their profession
patients have a choice as to which doctor they see

[ulysses]

70. allow me to quote you.

Finally those who claim that rankings and professional evaluations for merit increases are not possible are part of the problem. Every other profession has that...

Now we hear that the situation "isn't analogous". Are doctors not professionals?

[MaryCeleste]

71. No, the vast majority of doctors are not in a structured hierachial setting

which invalidates your approach

[ulysses]

73. so doctors are not professionals, in your view.

Thanks.

(Yes, I know - you'd prefer an unstructured, free market educational setting. Teachers hanging their shingles out and the "best" survive? Right. Think that'll really work?)

[MaryCeleste]

74. The professions are not analgous in the least..your inability to address the unreasonable use of the

industrial model is noted

[ulysses]

75. did you not say that all professions use merit pay?

I'll await your answer.

[ulysses]

76. well, didn't you?

[ulysses]

78. Mary?

[Zoigal]

55. Thanks for posting this, g. Taught forty years..never made more than 34,000

Have a Masters plus forty five hours. Loved teaching, but would i do it all
over again? Don't think so. Most teachers that i knew had summer jobs as well. z

[Sabriel]

57. Why did the teacher cross the road?

To get to her second job (thank you, I'll be here all week!).

I worked with a woman in Las Vegas who quit teaching high school to park cars at the Mirage. She made way more money and took way less shit from people.

[DesertRat]

58. Works for me

I'm a teacher and would love this pay scale!

[Laelth]

66. Supply-side economics has sucked education dry.

Ronald Reagan's big lie ... "I can lower your taxes and increase revenues" .. worked wonders. We cut taxes, and look at the result. Teachers are grossly underpaid, and politicians since Mondale and Dukakis have been afraid to tell the truth ... we need higher taxes to provide quality education.

:(

-Laelth

[ulysses]

72. hi, Laelth

Love the "Laelth Hussein" sig. :D

[Laelth]

77. It's just not fair!

People with compound screen names can put the Hussein in the middle elegantly and in a way that rolls off the tongue nicely.

It just won't work for my single syllable! :(

But I wanted to show some effort.

-Laelth

[texshelters]

83. Bring back child labor!

If we brought back child labor we wouldn't have to pay these high priced teachers and the low wage workers of the future, children, could get on with their low wage careers!

Uneducated children just go to prison. Investing in prisons is so much more cost effective.

Tex Shelters

[emanymton]

84. Excuse Me??? Any One Can Be A Teacher, Right?

.

This is a joke. Right? You get what you pay for. You pay for the minimum. You get the minimum. Is this what you really want?

Have you tried to be a teacher? Only babysit? In what world do you live?

Teachers are professionals. Their area of expertise is as demanding as any doctor, lawyer or engineer. Teachers are people to whom society has entrusted the development of its future citizens.

.

[MaryCeleste]

85. It is one of the easiest education tracks...