Efraim Diversoli... why not mentioned in the media he's Jewish?

[shance]

Seems a valid point.....and a rather blatant double standard.

Sunday, March 30, 2008
Efraim Diversoli... why not state that he is a Jew?


You have to put the "jewish" in the Google search to tease out the fact that this 22-year old "previously arrested for domestic violence and having a forged driving licence the main supplier of ammunition to Afghan forces at the height of the battle against the Taliban...

AEY, essentially a one-man operation based in an unmarked office in Miami Beach, Florida, was awarded a contract worth $300m (£150m) to supply the Afghan army and police in January last year.

But as the New York Times reported in a lengthy investigation, AEY's president, Efraim Diversoli, 22, supplied stock that was 40 years old and rotting packing material."

If he was a Muslim, you would not find one mainstream report that neglected to shove that fact down your throat.

Is this self-censorship in the press?

http://ampal.blogspot.com/2008/03/efraim-diversoli-why-not-state-that-he.html

[Sock Puppet]

1. you're right. it's a shame that muslims are targeted by the press.

but this doesn't mean that Jews should be too.

[shance]

3. I don't think its a questioning of targeting anyone, its simply about stating facts.

And not engaging in double standards and/or protectionary/discrimnitory methods or ommissions when reporting the news.

It is newsworthy to note he is Jewish.

As it would be for other nationalities.

One has to note why this was omitted?

[JerseygirlCT]

6. Why is that newsworthy? nt

[ulysses]

7. no it isn't.

And "Jewish" isn't a nationality.

[malaise]

16. Is Muslim a nationality? n/t

[ulysses]

18. no.

I understand the point, but two wrongs and all that.

[Bumblebee]

2. I know you mean well but this is unwise and insulting. Maybe the approach should

be not to mention that someone is a Muslim as often as it's mentioned instead of identifying all Jews, like myself, as Jews every time there is a story about us? He or his parents may be Israeli -- and that would be a semi-valid point but not that he is Jewish per se.

[shance]

4. I certainly don't wish to be insulting Bumble bee, I am trying to reflect what seems to be

a double standard here.

I understand you are Jewish. I appreciate that and love the traditions within the faith. I happen to be raised Protestant although Im not married to any religious belief.

In the past few years I've come to observe, as have others, including some of my friends who are Jewish, a strong knee jerk reaction if you will, when daring to address issues/ criticisms facts of those who happen to be Jewish or Israeli who happen to be engaging in crimes against all of us and yet we are not supposed to mention that they happen to be Jewish and/or from Israel?

Why is this?

The original post is what I see as a case in point, and a valid example of another double standard.

[Chovexani]

10. I'm not Jewish, but I'll take a wild guess

In the past few years I've come to observe, as have others, including some of my friends who are Jewish, a strong knee jerk reaction if you will, when daring to address issues/ criticisms facts of those who happen to be Jewish or Israeli who happen to be engaging in crimes against all of us and yet we are not supposed to mention that they happen to be Jewish and/or from Israel?

Why is this?

Maybe because inevitably such discussions turn into contests over who can spout the most batshit anti-Semitic garbage, and pissing about "those whiny Jews" who have all the money and run everything? eg.: Pretty much every thread in I/P?

I am no great defender of Israel or Israeli governmental policy, by any means, but I can maybe kind of see why Jews or Israelis kind of get PO'd.

[RC]

5. Was he Jewish by religion or heritage?

If it were reported he was Jewish, then that distinction should be important also.

[Betsy Ross]

8. Should news stories say "Protestant," "Catholic." etc.?

I don't see any news value in stating religion here.

[seemslikeadream]

9. Muslim and Palestinian are used quite a lot

and Christian fundamentalism

[Chovexani]

11. First, Muslin is a fabric.

Secondly, I'm with Betty. If a person's religion has no bearing on their crime, it is not newsworthy and has no business being in the article. I see this all the time when a Wiccan or Pagan is accused of a crime and there's sensationalistic headlines about ZOMG PAGAN CRIME.

Just because Muslims and Palestinians are treated in a racist manner by the press, doesn't mean Jews and Israelis should be too.

[seemslikeadream]

12. slow down a notch will ya

I fixed it before you even posted


and I agree with this statement


http://ampal.blogspot.com/2008/03/efraim-diversoli-why-not-state-that-he.html
If he was a Muslim, you would not find one mainstream report that neglected to shove that fact down your throat.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

13. According to what you are saying, we should identify everyone by their religion. Right?

Or are you being outright anti-semitic right now? As a non-practicing Jew (I am an ethnic Jew), I resent your selecting this example. Why not post an article about white born-again Christian, Eric Prince of Blackwater, has been ripping the American people off and his army of mercenaries are above the law?

[seemslikeadream]

14. white born-again Christian

Isn't that used all the time, even around here?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

15. Very rarely in the initial posting. That is usually reserved for the

replying posts.

[Grimm]

17. Why state that he is a Jew?

Long time lurker here. I registered just because this is the first post I found offensive enough that I needed to respond.

Anyways, I'm Jewish (religious, but not practicing - yes, I'm a hypocrite) and I find the whole idea behind this post ridiculous. I'm pretty sure I'd find it just as ridiculous if I was Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Raelian, etc. but I'm going off-track before I even start my mini-rant.

The simple fact of the matter is that his religion is not of importance to the deed he did. Unless you're trying to play up the "scummy Jewish businessman" stereotype, which I am really hoping is not your intention, my next best guess is that you're confused and/or ignorant and somehow thinking that Jewish = Israeli - I'm making this assumption based on calling Judaism a nationality and an eerily similar post on Prison Planet that asks "Why don't we hear more about those in office and/or in power who happen to have dual citizenship between the US and Israel." (both this thread and the one on PP start with the "seems like a valid point" line). What else can I say to this thinking other than it's wrong? Flat-out, full-stop wrong. Jewish and Israeli are not one and the same and either way, it still doesn't mean either fact is relevant.

If a businessman burns down his business, collects the insurance money, then flees to Cuba, it's irrelevant what his religion is. If he collects the money and then donates it to a religious terrorist group, then his religion becomes important because it's very likely part of his motivations. Let me stress the word: MOTIVE

Going through all the blogs jumping up on this topic (which are all just linking back to the same two blogs), the only possible religious connection is that it is a possibility he got the job, because he registered as a minority-owned business as a Hasidic Jew. The forged license and domestic violence could be important if you want to rant about how the US hires scum to work for them, but that is not the main point of your/your blog's argument.

To sum up: Religion is not his motive, so no point in mentioning it.

[seemslikeadream]

19. What was his motive?

[Grimm]

21. Greed

Most likely to make money. Kid gets a $300 million contract and supplies cheap, low-quality ammo to raise his profit margins. He's hardly the first scummy businessman to use such a tactic and he likely won't be the last. What makes it seem even remotely likely that his religious affiliation was the reason he decided to screw the Afghan army? And what makes it seem more likely that his religion was a stronger motivator than his bottom line?

[seemslikeadream]

25. I NEVER said religion was his motive

[shance]

20. Im amazed and somewhat disturbed by these responses.

All my life I have been the first to defend against unfair discrimination.

It is amazing those who save a few feel are using the excuse I'm anti-Semitic because i point out a pretty obvious double standard.

And I'm Anti-Semitic????

Who dares to bring out the obvious is anti-Semitic??

Excuse me but spare me the glaring hypocrisy.

If those of you who attack those who dare to criticize what continues to appear to be an immunity from recognizing criminal acts by those who simply happen to be Jewish, at some point your words will become meaningless to those who value the truth.

[Grimm]

22. What's obvious about it?

I'm being 100% serious here.

What are you rambling about with "what continues to appear to be an immunity from recognizing criminal acts by those who simply happen to be Jewish?" Is anyone saying what the guy did isn't criminal? We're questioning why you think his religion is important to the facts of the case.

Or maybe you're suggesting that for now on, for every news report, the media must report the race, religion, political affiliation, etc. of everyone involved in the story? That's the only other possible interpretation I'm able to get out of this without coming to question your motivations.

[The Straight Story]

27. Well, we often do ask if the person doing X was a repub

Or a Christian, simply to point out hypocrisy and the like.

Happens all the time here.

[ulysses]

24. no hypocrisy.

We understand the double standard - really - , just not how pointing out that this kid is Jewish makes that double standard any better.

I don't think you're anti-Semetic, but I do think you're following a dead-end path here.

[karynnj]

23. Given his first name, I assumed he was

Why is this significant? Do other stories identify people as Episcopalians, Catholics, Bhuddists, etc?

[The Straight Story]

26. I'll go out on a limb here and agree with you on this

people often make ties to muslims, or even christians when there is an obvious relation to the story at hand (such as, the government worked with so and so because of their ties to such and such christian church, or the people who did x were islamic or muslim).

basically, in this story we have someone jewish supplying ammo to kill people who are mostly islamic - which is a flash point in that region as we all know.

We often have no problem with bringing the religion of people into issues, except when it involves judaism. As a Christian myself I have a real soft spot for people of the jewish faith/race, but I don't see the need to treat news stories any differently because of that.

If he had been a member of Rod Parsely's church it probably would have been mentioned for example.

If saying things about folks of the jewish faith is seen as hatred, what do we call it when we say things about people of other faiths?

[Grimm]

28. Worsening the double standard

Maybe it's my newbieness, but if people are bringing up religion or ideology when it's not actually relevant, just so they can go "LOL Christian" or "LOL Muslim" then that's ultimately a problem with the message board. If it turns out that this kid got the job solely because of his religion (maybe through the AA program or because he knew some Army official at a synagogue), then it's relevant, but not for the reasons the OP seems to be bringing up.

When he says people are "ignoring Jewish crimes", a lot of alarm bells go off in my head and I don't think they're irrational. Like I've repeated over and over, there's nothing pointing to religion being an important, much less relevant, part of the story and the crime is hardly being ignored. I think plenty of people here would take offense, and quite rightly, if every news story claimed race, religion, etc. when they're not relevant:

"Three black youths who profess atheism shot another black youth who is a Protestant in a mugging"
"A Chinese-American Buddhist hit and killed a white Jewish kid after running a red light"

Headlines like these I expect on hate sites and conspiracy theory blogs, not legitimate news sources. There's an implications in those headlines that it was their race or religion that was a motivating factor. It's idiotic when someone says "Muslim burns down business for insurance money," because of what is obviously implied and it's no less idiotic now. Mentioning race, religion, ideology, etc. has a time and a place and I can't see mentioning it in this case have any practical value.

And I would also add that it's a slippery slope to say a Jew selling ammo for a war against Islamic extremists is important. It implies that Jews shouldn't work in certain fields of employment because of their religion.

[shance]

29. Come back??

And I would also add that it's a slippery slope to say a Jew selling ammo for a war against Islamic extremists is important. It implies that Jews shouldn't work in certain fields of employment because of their religion.

I have to say by some form of mangled, tortured logic, you create a fictionalized version of the guilty party who happens to be Jewish, and that he is somehow now being victimized and/or discriminated against??

Where and from what stratosphere did you invent your last comment?

We have a 22 year old accused domestic violence batterer who happens to be Jewish, who happened to also be lucky enough, even after having accumulated a criminal record, also receives a thirty million dollar contract deal, essentially selling cement and broken parts to our government, and to us, the taxpayers who are again footing the bill.

Now you're insinuating the offender is being discriminated against because hes Jewish and you accuse the OP of somehow implying he can't be employed as an arms trafficker?

Not sure how that was invented, however you are wrong in that regard as well.

Apparently he can, and apparently he was.

[Grimm]

30. You misinterpreted my post

My last comment was directed towards a single statement made by TSS. He said, in an isolated statement, that religion could be relevant, because a Jewish person selling ammo to the Army to fight Islamic extremists is important. My counter-argument, also meant to be taken in an isolated context - and that is probably where your confusion probably lies - is simply meant that if the religion of this ammo seller is important, then it could also mean we should scrutinize ALL Jews involved in businesses related to the arms trade and that it could very well mean that ALL Jews shouldn't be involved in this industry, because of such scrutiny. I have not said this seller in particular has been discriminated against, nor have I defended him for his actions. No one has.

Nice job avoiding dealing with the questions posed to you, by the way. You still haven't told us why his religion is relevant to the facts at hand or where people are denying Jewish crimes. I would like to hear the answers.

[HuffleClaw]

31. had he been 'LINKED' with either hillary or obama in ANY way...

...we'd be seeing his pic on the news hourly. some things aren't 'newsworthy' from the horrible LIBERAL MEDIA ! and as you say, had he been Muslim it would be front page news.

[seemslikeadream]

32. Hungary does not sell ammunition at all - Defence Ministry

http://www.budapesttimes.hu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6579&Itemid=159

Friday, 28 March 2008
Budapest, March 28 (MTI) - Hungary's armed forces do not sell any ammunition; in line with a relevant law, they destroy all superfluous and expired ammunition, the Defence Ministry told MTI on Friday.

The ministry's statement commented on a New York Times article published on Thursday saying that a U.S. company, AEY, allegedly supplied Afghanistan with substandard ammunition. Some of the munitions originated from Hungary, the company had claimed.

The Defence Ministry categorically denied having had any contractual relationship with the Miami Beach-based company.

The ministry noted that the Hungarian Armed Forces had supplied ammunition to the Afghan national army and police but in the frame of NATO donation. That ammunition, however, was checked, delivered to and distributed in Afghanistan by NATO, without the involvement of any external players, the ministry said.

Prime Minister Ferenc Gyurcsany on Thursday asked the National Security Office (NBH) for information in connection with allegations of irregularities in ammunition supplies to Afghanistan.

Gyurcsany will consider whether to launch an investigation into the issue after he receives the relevant information from the NBH, government spokesman David Daroczi told MTI.

Hungary obliges itself to observe domestic and international laws at all times, he added.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. Because it is not relevant, just as it is truly not relevant if

a criminal is muslim, catholic or what have you.

That is why

So why not call on the press on doing what they are not supposed to do?