What's your opinon on Parental "Escort" policies for minors?

[Godhumor]

No, not THAT kind of escort (trying to head off the jokes).

Anyway, this is the official policy of my local mall:

Parental Escort Policy
Walden Galleria has instituted a Parental Escort Policy on Fridays and Saturdays between the hours of 4pm and closing. Anyone under the age of 18 visiting Walden Galleria must be accompanied by a parent or guardian 21 years of age or older. One parent or guardian (21 years of age or older) is permitted to supervise up to five teens. Teens must remain within the company of their parent or guardian. Acceptable proof of age is a driver's license, state/provincial non-driver ID, military or college ID, passport or visa. This policy does not apply to the cinemas or stores with exterior entrances. Thank you for your cooperation.

This is the policy at a local movie theater:

Note: No one under the age of 17 will be permitted into this theatre on Friday & Saturday evenings after 6pm, unless accompanied by their legal parent. Parents MUST stay and watch the same movie with their child on those evenings. Also, no child under the age of 17 will be permitted into any R-rated feature, unless accompanied by their legal parent. A valid picture ID may be required and tickets may be checked at the door. In addition, no child under the age of 6 will be permitted into any R-Rated feature after 6pm.


So. Where does minor rights end? Do you see issues with either of these policies, or would it make you more likely to frequent either establishment?

[C_U_L8R]

1. That seems to be shooting themselves in the foot

Teens and tweens are their best customers.
If I was a retailer in that mall I would be plenty upset about that.
I wouldn't pay rent until they change back to an open policy.

[drmeow]

3. I believe that many of the retailers

want these policies.

[C_U_L8R]

5. No retailer I've ever talked to

(and i've been in tons of focus groups on this very topic)
Look at the stores... they are all tweenie
Abercrombie, Gamestop, FYE, Hollister, etc.
They want kids in the mall. They are what it's all about.
(and if they don't, they are in the wrong business)

And parents want a place where they can leave the kids off for a few hours.
They don't want to have to babysit.

And kids want a place to meet up with their friends.
And they certainly don't want parents anywhere around.

This sounds like one of those silly shortsightisms...
'business would be great if it weren't for the damn customers'

[drmeow]

20. I've read some articles saying that retailers

want these policies but it may have been specific malls that were/are having problems with gangs of teens hanging out and causing trouble.

[Liberal Veteran]

Well, I can say I think there are two really good reasons this may have happened.

1) Teens being extremely disruptive (and goddess knows I was a brat as a teen and a destructive brat at that)

2) Concerns about liability if something happens (rape, kidnapping, fighting, accidents while acting up).

[Godhumor]

14. I agree with both of those

I am pretty certain the mall (correctly identified as the Walden Galleria by another poster) implemented the policy to discourage "hanging out".

The movie theater wasnted two days a week where older people could attend shows without the perceived worry of small children or rude youngsters. Of course, now we have the problem of the rude adults, but I don't see how the company is going to fix that one.

[drmeow]

2. I think the movie theater one

is ridiculous - so a 16 year old can't go to the movies on a date without their legal parent? I'm thinking they are going to lose business big time.

[gollygee]

16. Oh - I misread that

I thought that was the policy for R rated movies, which made sense to me. But yeah that's ridiculous. What are 16-year-olds supposed to do on dates? Park somewhere and have sex, apparently, as the mall and movie theater are unavailable.

[Godhumor]

18. What about those children under 17 who are already parents

Sure, they probably got them with the no under-6 policy, but I would find it amusing to see that argument at the ticket office.

[Fed_Up_Grammy]

4. The policy is fine with me.

[ret5hd]

8. Of course it is.

[Berry Cool]

6. I'm surprised a place like Walden Galleria is doing it.

A suburban mall out on a highway...they have a big problem with large groups of disruptive, scary teens?

They've had a policy like that at Tower City in downtown Cleveland for a while now...except it starts at 2 pm. But Tower City is a downtown shopping center...obviously, the idea is not to scare away the downtown workers from feeling comfortable shopping there because it's too full of roving "city kid gangs." And yes, there's a racist element to it...the idea that white shoppers will be scared off by groups of unsupervised black kids hanging around. I have heard that even black ADULTS have been harassed by Tower City security because of something stupid like how they were dressed.

I don't have a huge problem with parental escort programs, so long as the idea is seriously to increase parental responsibility and promote more polite behavior in younger shoppers. But there should not be a racist element to it.

[knitter4democracy]

11. I've seen that at Tower City.

My MIL and SILs freaked out once when we were going to the women's bathroom on the main floor. A group of guys came out and were waiting for a friend, and when I turned around to hold the door for my SILs, they were gone. I went back looking for them and found them with their mom, hiding in the pharmacy across the way. Since I taught at VASJ at the time, I didn't think anything of the group of guys--they were obviously just hanging out with friends, nothing more.

After that, they wouldn't meet us there. I thought it was a pretty safe place, and they had the stores I liked, but that's racism for ya.

[Godhumor]

19. Ah, the old "Black" mall problem

Rochester, NY had a mall called the Irondequoit Mall back when it was first made. The construction was modern, the mall itself was much bigger than anything else in the area, and stores flocked to be there for the launch. However, the mall, which was in a suburb, had a city bus stop right outside.

Pretty quickly after the mall opened a new one went up in another close by suburb that was off the bus route and the suburban population began moving in that direction. Irondequoit Mall has been sold, renamed, and reimagined, but, as of today, more than 80% of the stores are closed. It is essentially an empty building.

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that the exodous of suburbanites was caused by the influx of people from the city.

[Berry Cool]

22. I remember it well. I lived in Rochester once.

I saw Irondequoit Mall open, I remember what it was like then, and later I moved away, and friends who stayed behind told me it had been decimated by stories of "gangs harassing shoppers." Stores pulled out and it ended up all but dead.

Same thing happened to the Randall Park Mall near Cleveland...when it opened in '76 it was a huge two-story mall with about eight anchor stores...bigger than just about any other mall in the country...it attracted tons of shoppers...then it got killed by its reputation for "attracting too many black people." Now, it's got almost no stores left and the ones there are all discount dens...oh, and a Magic Johnson movie theater.

It's like what happened to neighborhoods is happening to malls..."white flight." Surburban whites get terrified at the thought of having to spend time in close quarters with blacks, and they run. Pretty soon the only shoppers left are inner-city blacks, big stores pull out, and the mall turns into a ghetto.

I think that's what's behind a lot of these "parental supervision" policies at malls if you look beneath the surface...it's not so much that they're concerned about KIDS intimidating or being rude to shoppers, they're concerned about large groups of BLACK PEOPLE intimidating white shoppers. And the younger the black people, the more intimidated the white people get.

[knitter4democracy]

30. It's all about white flight.

I didn't grow up with that (rural Michigan's pretty much all white, but they've been there for generations), so I still have a hard time understanding it.

Having taught kids from all ethnicities and backgrounds, I'd have to say kids are kids. I will admit that groups of white boys make me nervous sometimes, but that's because all of the kids who did what they could to scare and hurt me as a teacher were white males. All it takes is for a desk to get thrown at you to make you a bit jumpy. I try to read their behavior first, though, and see what they're up to. Most of the time, they're just hanging out and having fun.

[Godhumor]

15. WG has had this policy for over half a decade now

I just never thought to post about it until today (I was there this afternoon and it is posted in quite a few places).

[varelse]

7. It's a privately owned business, no?

They have the right to set rules that don't violate Federal or state law, or local ordinances, and the right to refuse to do business with anyone. Or did I miss something here? :shrug:

[Godhumor]

13. Not missing anything

I was just curious how people felt about policies that limited the use of facilities by certain age groups. It was not a loaded question nor one questioning legality.

[Thothmes]

26. I don't see any problem with these rules. We routinley limit

access based on age.

[gollygee]

9. I was a bit of a mall rat in the 80s

I practically lived in the mall. I can't imagine what we would have done if that poloicy had been in place!

No problem with the movie policy, except for the first part that doesn't allow 16-year-olds to go on dates. That's stupid. But I can't imagine who would bring a child under 6 to an R rated movie anyway? Ack. My daughter is almost 6 and she can't even handle some PG movies.

[TheMightyFavog]

10. One of the malls in the Milwaukee area implemented a similar policy.

IIRC, Mayfair Mall put their escort policy in place in response to complaints of groups of teenagers that were doing nothing but hang around the mall and acting disrespectfully to other customers. Mayfair got sick of it and put in their escort policy. It caused a really big stink at the time, and there were accusations of racism on the part of Mayfair Mall. As evidenced by all the LTTEs in the Journal-Sentinel, there were a lot of people who were under the impression that Mayfair mall's new policy was unfairly talking young African-Americans.

[knitter4democracy]

12. I think it's ageist and wrong.

Kids should have the right to be there until it closes or until curfew, whichever comes first.

When I used to teach, my students told me of stuff like this, and it shocked and bothered me then (and this was 8 years ago). Teens have the highest expendable income of any age bracket, and the actions of a very small few shouldn't ruin it for everyone else.

[Book Lover]

17. What do I think?

I think anything that drives young people away from the temples of consumerism has that as a positive benefit.

[Hippo_Tron]

21. Stupid, teenagers have tons of disposable income

Why any sensible business owner would want to deny them the right to shop is beyond me.

[RB TexLa]

23. Right, the monsters are supposed to behave any better with their parents there?

sure, sure they will.

[BoneDaddy]

24. Agism anyone?

Certainly a discussion should ensue regarding some of the problems they are having, but such blatant discrimination against minors is an extreme decision.

[Diclotican]

25. Godhumor

Godhumor

In my (white) humble opinion, a children have no place in a mall, after a surtin hour if he/she is under the age of 16 anyway, if not with their parent, or legal guardian... And even if she/he is over the age of 16,the parent have the DUTY to be there to keep a aye of everything, just to be on the safe side.. Not that a 16 year old, are not smart or old enough to go alone.. But they _can_ have a agreement that you have to meet, in surting times and so on...

But, that is just my humble opinion. And I know, from my own experience that be followed by the parents/legal guardian, if you really want to stroll around little for yourself is a pain in the ass.. But when I was coming of age I understand they was there not for my pain, but for my own security... And I hope, when the time comes that I can protect my children in some of the same way. Even that I have to let the kids get little freedom to do stupid things.. That is the human way of learning how to behave in the real world..

I reckon that the world of today, is much different than it was when I was a kid... And it is not THAT long ago I was a kid either:evilgrin: But I understand it is some time ago.... *sigh*

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language

[NashVegas]

27. I Think They're a Good Idea

We need to stop using schools and merchants as babysitters.

[ikojo]

28. Here in St Louis malls have enacted such policies

following fights that got out of control. There aren't many places for teenagers to hang out so they go to the mall. Often times school yard problems are brought there.

[aikoaiko]

29. I think mallrats would be better off studying.