Lou Dobbs "is tired of Cotton Picking Black Leaders"

[Ichingcarpenter]

Racial healer Lou Dobbs explains how he's sick of "cotton pickin'" black leaders telling him how he can and can't talk about race (he catches himself at the last minute -- sorta) ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y0W19-N3Ik&eurl=http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/186481.php

[slackmaster]

1. Comedy gold!

:rofl:

[bdamomma]

2. boy, these guys get away with so many slurs don't they?

[Ichingcarpenter]

5. Now, wait, just a cotton picking moment are you trying to throw

Lou, in the briar patch, little missy? (trying my best 1950's southern typing)

[bdamomma]

12. cotton picking could be viewed as a slur couldn't it though.

and then it could be used as a saying??? but how many people are going to read this in the derogatory way.

:hi: :hug:

[slackmaster]

18. I've always thought of "cotton picking" as a nice way of saying "God damned"

:shrug:

[Bake]

40. I grew up in the South, and heard the expression my entire life.

It was never, as far as I know, intended to be an ehtnic slur. It was a "nice" way to avoid profanity. A whole lot of people picked cotton.

And by the way, it'll tear your hands up.

Bake

[Ichingcarpenter]

19. Well, my parents picked Cotton

But they were dirt poor Okies in the depression.
It is a slur even on the poor and migrants.

[slackmaster]

20. So the issue is class rather than race

Thanks for clarifying that.

[Ichingcarpenter]

23. I would say class and race, it does mean god damn but

look on who it is damning. The cotton picker.

[slackmaster]

13. If David Duke had said it, it would be a slur

Lou Dobbs saying it is just a fuckup.

When a guy who makes his living by talking puts his foot in his mouth, that's just plain funny.

[skooooo]

34. ..i dunno...

I think it's a slur. I'm not anxious to find slurs where they don't exist, but this is a little to freudian, imo.

[slackmaster]

36. It may have been Freudian, OTOH...

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[Ichingcarpenter]

37. CNN scrubbed the comment in the transcript

If that tells you anything.

[slackmaster]

38. I have no faith in CNN's journalistic integrity

They pretty consistently prove that they are dishonest and just trying to maximize profits.

[Igel]

45. It tells me that some people--not necessarily Dobbs or CNN--

found it offensive.

I was once chewed out because I used the phrase "black magic". That it precedes any substantive knowledge of 'black people' by northern Europeans didn't matter.

Whorfians Gone Wild.

When speaker intent is crucially located in the hearer, that's the kind of nonsense that happens. Those with the least good-will and most ill-will win the discourse.

[Zynx]

3. Wait....WHAT?! Lou, calm down a little bit.

I know the guy hates Mexicans and Chinese, but damn.

[skooooo]

4. omg...

Is he completely retarded?

[shain from kane]

6. Does Grand Dragon Lou propose a lynching?

[frogcycle]

7. OUCH!

I wonder how many people actually realize that "get your cotton-pickin hands off..." is actually a racial slur?

Dobbs probably uses "cotton-picking" all the time, and only when he used it in that context did the lightbulb pop.

I once said "call a spade a spade," an expression from my mother, whose father was a big bridge player and from which game I assumed the expression came. A black friend was appalled, said "do you realize what you just said?" The use of that word as a racial slur was the farthest thing from my mind. But it sure hit him between the eyes. Still not sure what the actual origin was. And, frankly, "cotton-picking" MAY have originated as a class thing, with the gentry referring to anyone who did manual labor that way - but we pretty much know who were 99.99% of said labor force...

Talk about foot-in-mouth!

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. I got called down for saying that too

Many years ago. I didn't know that "call a spade a spade" was offensive. And let me tell you, I have NEVER said that since.

[slackmaster]

15. My parents were bridge players, and I always thought that was a card-playing reference too

Amazing what you can learn on this board.

[skooooo]

17. I thought it was too.

In fact, how do we know ?

[slackmaster]

24. I guess I'll just have to cross that off my list of usable idioms

One more tar baby to steer clear of.

[skooooo]

28. Read my other post...

Frankly, I think this whole issue is more complicated.

[slackmaster]

30. Existence of the false etymology queers the idiom's applicability

:hide:

[skooooo]

31. Some people don't like to think.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. LOL

[frogcycle]

51. actually, I read somewhere

that it comes from England, and has to do with the distinction between a spade and a shovel (whatever that is/was). The point though, is that my friend thought he knew what it was, was hurt by it, and I was oblivious, which just points out that maybe sometimes we are just TOO thin-skinned. Like the various times I've been accused of racism on this board if I in any way questioned Obama's sainthood*.


*read my sig line before accusing me of being a Hillary-loving Obama-basher

[slackmaster]

54. I'll just call every digging implement an "entrenching tool" from now on

:rofl:

[MonkeyFunk]

60. It's much older than that, even

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_call_a_spade_a_spade


It goes back to Plutarch.

[petronius]

53. Or not learn...

The spade saying has no ethnic roots, according to my googlage. Apparently it goes back to Aristophanes, and has always referred to a plain-spoken person (although not always with a positive connotation). However, if you're speaking to someone who considers it a slur, I suppose the polite thing would be to avoid the phrase...

[Hestia]

14. Everyone needs to quit taking everything as a dad gum

racial slur! It's okay to talk about black culture, asian culture, hispanic culture, but using any slang from the south somehow is considered racist. My daddy picked cotton and he was white, so not all people who picked cotton were black. Everyone who takes these as slurs must not be from the south and expect us to change for them. Not, why should we? This is our culture and not everything is derogatory. Sorry, get over it.

[slackmaster]

16. I'll bet you didn't know that "dad gum" was a racial slur

It's a reference to Mexican farmers who harvest chicle for making chewing gum.

[Hestia]

39. Uh, not it's not, it means 'god damn it' in polite society - back

in the day kids weren't allowed to cuss, and this is the closest
you could get; but a lot of grandmothers knew what it meant and
I used to get smacked for saying it - that 'ga' 'shoot'. These
were considered cuss words too. See, ya'll know nothing of
southern culture.

[slackmaster]

42. Don't get yourself all tied up in a horse pie over it

I was being sarcastic.

[BulletproofLandshark]

21. Nice try

The average person that hears the phrase "cotton picking black" in a sentence is going to think it has racial overtones, and rightfully so. I refuse to get over it.

[slackmaster]

22. I can't recall ever hearing the words "cotton picking black" in that order before

But I do agree with you that it brings up a racial connotation.

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. I don't think I have any right to tell anyone else what should and should not offend them

If they tell me something I say is offensive, I apologize and learn from it. But I certainly don't feel I have the right to decide when others should be offended.

[skooooo]

41. agree, but by the same token...

People should not just declare what the origins of some phrase is without really knowing the facts.

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. But if it offends someone,

why should the origin even matter?

[skooooo]

46. Because truth and knowledge are important...

...not to disuade anyone from the way they feel, but to get at the facts and understand. I understand that certain words are offensive, or have become offensive even if in their origin they were not used in an offensive way. Isn't it important to get at the facts if someone makes a declaration - ie. "calling a spade a spade" began as a racial phrase?

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. No one declared to me that it began as a racial declaration

My friend merely said she was offended by the statement. We didn't even discuss where it came from. So I stopped saying it. That seemed like the easiest way to handle it, rather than argue about the derivation.

[skooooo]

48. I was referring to post #15

That's all.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. Gotcha!

:hi:

[LanternWaste]

56. job synonymous with black slavery in America

If Dobbs was referring not only to black, but to white politicians also, your position would then be debatable. Yet as he used the job synonymous with black slavery in America in reference to black politicians only, there is but one valid conclusion.

[skooooo]

25. Actually, you may be wrong as to the origins of that....

Oxford English Dictionary

2. a. Phr. to call a spade a spade, to call things by their real names, without any euphemism or mincing of matters; to use plain or blunt language; to be straightforward to the verge of rudeness.
In the ultimate source of the first quotation, Plutarch's Apophthegmata 178B, the Greek words are . There is no evidence that (a trough, basin, bowl, boat, etc.) had the sense of ‘spade’; in rendering it by ligo Erasmus evidently confused it with or other derivatives from the stem of to dig. Lucian De Hist. Conscr. 41 gives a fuller form of the phrase, , .

1542 UDALL Erasm. Apoph. 167 Philippus aunswered, that the Macedonians wer feloes of no fyne witte in their termes but altogether grosse, clubbyshe, and rusticall, as they whiche had not the witte to calle a spade by any other name then a spade. 1580 GIFFORD Posie of Gilloflowers Wks. (Grosart) 101, I cannot say the crow is white, But needes must call a spade a spade. 1589 Marprel. Epit. Aij, I am plaine, I must needs call a Spade a Spade. 1630 Pathomachia IV. ii. 34, I am a plaine Macedonian, I must need call a Spade, a Spade. 1647 TRAPP Marrow Gd. Authors in Comm. Ep. 641 Gods people shall not spare to call a spade a spade, a niggard a niggard. 1706 E. WARD Hud. Rediv. I. vii. 11 This is not Time of Day For Truth to be so obvious made, We must not call a Spade, a Spade. 1731-8 SWIFT Polite Conv. 199, I am old Tell-Truth; I love to call a Spade a Spade. 1837 W. IRVING Capt. Bonneville III. 115 They are the most unsavory vagabonds in their ordinary colloquies; they make no hesitation to call a spade a spade. 1884 Punch 15 Nov. 229/2 If it is absolutely necessary to call a spade a spade then it must be done in a whisper.

[slackmaster]

27. Oh, but false etymologies are so much fun

Especially when people can use them as an excuse for righteous indignation.

[cliffordu]

8. WELL, well, well.....Another Imus moment....

Lou should be put on border patrol since he thinks it's such a great idea.


Where do they GET these guys??

And WHY is Pat Buchanan still on my fucking TELEVISION at all?????

[skooooo]

29. Imus is back on tv.

:-)

[cliffordu]

35. I know. I haven't actually watched him in 5 or 6 years....

I worked a night job where I could watch a little TV......

This still doesn't explain Buchanan..... :grr:

[wtmusic]

9. ROFLMAO! An expert on racial dialogue speaks out!

[alphafemale]

11. Wups!

That was awkward.

Bet he wishes he could call that one back.

:rofl:

[Kajsa]

26. I don't care for Dobbs one bit, but--

he said, " not one of these cotton ( caught himself-garbled sputtering)
ridiculous politicians should be the moderator on the issue of race".

Again, I DON'T CARE FOR THE GUY, he's a racist jerk.

But he didn't say what you quoted him as saying.

Quotation marks are used for actual quotes.

[Autumn]

43. He did not use the term black leaders n/t

[Igel]

49. Eh.

Dialectal variation and diversity.

"Cotton pickin'." Possibly racist. Possibly classist. Certainly unclear as to its etymology--unless you bring beliefs in as 'evidence'.

Possibly a Bugs Bunny reference. Or perhaps the writers picked up a previous usage that they knew of. Maybe in-house. Maybe regional.

But assuming that etymology determines meaning is certainly one of the classic fallacies.

As with 'call a spade a spade', we even have folk etymologies used to determine what a person necessarily means.

Perish the idea that something that could be offensive to some isn't obligatorily offensive to others, or that something that might be offensive isn't necessarily offensive. Why, that would require being open-minded, being interested in what a person says more than what you think a person must be saying or need him to be saying. Where's the impossibility of dialog, avoiding an exchange of information, in such a thought? "I'm the decider" of what other people must mean--external reality based on introspection. Gotta love it.

[SidDithers]

50. Dobbs in an ass, and I'm not defending him...

but what he said was "cotton...these just...ridiculous politicians"

He didn't say "cotton picking black leaders". It's bad enough what he was about to say. Claiming he said something that he didn't is just wrong.

Sid

[Rex]

55. I've always wondered if Dobbs is a closet white supremest.

[doc03]

57. Where did the old saying I used to hear

in Western movies "I don't cotton to sheep farmers", etc. Is that some kind of racial slur. I think everyone is just too thin skinned anymore you have to analyze every word today for fear of not being PC. Like the remark Hillary made about Obama not doing the spade work. It's just an old farm saying for someone taking credit for the harvest when someone else did the planting. Maybe city folk don't know what a spade is?

[lebkuchen]

58. What a 1930s way of putting it.

W/Obama's candidacy we get the ignorant white folk complaints about the black on black use of "nigger," complaints from the same folks who couldn't care less if Bush gives impromtu massages to world leaders (and women other than his wife, in front of the camera, no less) whose language taxonomy exists on a formal/informal Sie/du register of communication.

[Karenina]

59. Register does not register here!

;-)