My friend's neighbor was foreclosed on yesterday

[SoCalDem]

I was at my friend's house, having coffee with her, and we heard a lot of banging going on outside.. Nosy busybodies that we are, we went out onto her porch to see what was happening.

4 guys on her neighbor's porch were banging on the door announcing that they were foreclosing on the house.. The neighbors were not at home, but their dog ran out when they opened the door.. we called him over to us, and she put the dog in her backyard, so he would not get run over or run away..

we sat there for the longest time, as they hauled stuff into the yard...toys..clothes, furniture, computers..you name it.. They just piled it all up..

By then a bunch of neighbors showed up to watch.. One retired guy from down the street, brought his lawn-chair & small patio table & plunked it down next to the pile of stuff. He promised to watch their stuff until they "got home".

My friend did not know them well, since both worked in Orange County, and were not home all that much when she was home. they apparently have a child in elementary school and another in middle school.

I left about noon, and she had to go to work at 4, so I don;t know what happened when they did get home.

There was a sign left on the door that said that if the "personal belongings" were not removed in 48 hours, it would be hauled away..

[Brigid]

1. Sounds like a scene from "Roger and Me."

And that movie is nearly 20 years old. God bless America. :sarcasm:

[Midlodemocrat]

2. I never realized that they would take your stuff and just dump it like that.

A neighbor of a friend of mine had her house foreclosed on recently and she never mentioned anything like that.

It is terrifying to think people are having to endure that. Truly terrifying.

[SoCalDem]

4. If you take them seriously, you move your stuff out first

but many people are trying to "negotiate"..and put off moving because they really think things will get worked out in time :(

[slackmaster]

30. There is no more negotiating once a NOT is filed

Notice Of Trustee's Sale.

[slackmaster]

The process takes 120-150 days before they can legally do that in California

Processing a foreclosure takes 90-120 days from the original Notice of Default.

Once the foreclosure is recorded, the new owner or trustee has to file a Notice of Unlawful Detainder (sp?), which gives the former owner 30 days to move out. If they aren't out at that time, the scene depicted in the OP can legally occur.

[LeftyMom]

73. That's not how you handle abandonded property in CA though.

Abandoned property has to be stored for a specified period of time (I want to say 14 days, but I don't have the paperwork in front of me) after the cops come and do the lockout. The cops will usually give the person up to an hour to get their stuff out before they let the owner or the owner's agent change the locks. After the holding period, provided the proper notice of abandoned property was served and posted, anything of no apparent value can be tossed, but anything that's worth something and isn't claimed is supposed to be sold off and applied to the debt, assuming the abandoned property is worth more than $300 (that's garage sale value, not replacement value,) which would presumably be the case in a single family home.

[dysfunctional press]

78. here in illinois, the stuff is just taken to the curb.

that's that.

[C_U_L8R]

3. That is absolutely awful.

Republican sensibilities have ruined this country.
Thank god we're taking it back !

[SoCalDem]

7. The ridiculous part is that the house will now be vandalized

and probably end up in terrible shape..

the house next door to us was foreclosed, but the people moved out before it was foreclosed on,..It's been vandalized, tagged, and people are still breaking in..I fear that it will get burned to the ground..with ours too:scared:

the police won;t do anything ..

[slackmaster]

31. Probably no worse from the house than letting squatters live in it

They had to move out some time.

[Stinky The Clown]

42. A victim blamer

How nice

[slackmaster]

47. The victims get 5-6 months of rent-free living with no penalty other than damaged credit

What more do you think they deserve?

What would you do to compensate the mortgagor who is not getting paid?

If you can't make payments you have to leave sooner or later. How much time would you allow?

[Lance_Boyle]

55. well, the mortgagers are obviously evil, so

foreclosed former homeowners should just be allowed to stay where they are regardless of ability to pay for it, and should probably also be given free candy and a pony and maybe some flowers and rainbows, too.

[slackmaster]

60. Free stuff is good, and I like candy

Evil people are bad.

[Stinky The Clown]

75. Compassion ...... its only human

[slackmaster]

84. California is probably the most compassionate states for foreclosures

I ask again, what more do you think people who get foreclosed on deserver?

How do you compensate the mortgagor and successor owners for loss of use of the property while the foreclosure victims remain on the premises?

[Stinky The Clown]

87. My view on this ...... here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3096357

[slackmaster]

93. Beautifully written and insightful apologia!

Thank you for your clarity of mind and purity of heart.

:toast:

[NightWatcher]

5. drive around some neighborhoods. around here (Jax) you see 1 home for sale for every 5 or so

there have been tons auctions and reduced rate homes for sale listings in the papers.

The one good thing is that due to rate cuts, the savings rate is around 2% but if you buy a house you can usually fix it up and rent it out to people who cannot afford to buy one and see a 5-10% return on investment. You dont have to be a vulture either to get this done. We have also been refitting homes to be more energy efficient so the rentors will not be burdened with higher energy bills.

I would really love to start equiping them with solar cells so that we would be getting a check from the power company instead of a monthly bill.

[Occulus]

6. I think we need to hear from a lawyer here on whether this was legal or not.

If it is- it shouldn't be.

[SoCalDem]

8. When a house is foreclosed on,. it becomes the property of the owner

and they can do anything with the stuff "left behind"..which is what they probably consider the people's stuff..

there are lots of starage places around here, and they will probably get plenty of help moving their things, but I think they were probably still hoping they could work something out.. the people who do the foreclosing, are probably just going by a list with addresses & dates..and are paid a fee..

[Tesha]

9. Why would you think it isn't legal?

They lost possession of the house so why would they
(or their goods) be allowed to remain in the house?

Sucks, but that's life in a Republican BushWorld.

Tesha

[ProdigalJunkMail]

19. sorry to say it that way long before bushworld... n/t

[Tesha]

35. (I know. But we see a lot more of it now. You'd have to go back to Hoover...) (NT)

[Occulus]

22. Are you a lawyer? n/t

[Tesha]

34. No, but I hang around with a lot of them.

Now answer my question: Why would you think
this *ISN'T* legal in this fine, progressive
country?

Tesha

[ProdigalJunkMail]

37. the law in Cali is pretty clear

and offers upwards of 180 days from the beginning of the default period until something like this happens. My question is, why shouldn't it be legal? The owner (rather the mortgagee) is given ample time to remove their property in the event of default and foreclosure. If you fail to pay a debt on a secured loan the mortgagor should have some legal recourse, shouldn't they?

I am not saying the mortgages in the US are all on the up and up...many of them have been shady and have cause a lot more of this stuff as you point out. But banks don't want to own your house. They want you to pay the note...and maybe buy another one. They aren't doing this for fun or spite...

sP

[Occulus]

39. If it is, it shouldn't be, for very logical reasons

Most people have absolutely irreplaceable objects in their homes which have a great deal of emotional (or actual!) value attached to them. It's an objectively wrong and compassionless practice which puts belongings not owned by the bank in question at needless risk of theft or destruction by the elements Also, note that the possessions are still on the bank's property! Or is the land under the house not considered part of the mortgage? Aren't they thus liable for the safety of those possessions? Why weren't the possessions hauled away in the first place? The homerenter wasn't home- fine, tack a note to their door.

And so forth.

Another poster said, and I agree, that doing this puts the home at risk of being gutted or vandalized (which risk would be far less, or nil, were the home to look "lived in"). Either of those could result in loss of property value to other nearby homes, homes which that bank may or may not own. The sick irony is, were that to happen (say, the copper pipes all getting ripped out the walls), the damages done to the home are probably a great deal more costly to the bank than the dollar amount the homerenter is in arrears. Also, given the material possessions are what is in question, it is entirely possible that the contents in the house are worth a percentage of the value of the house itself. Think of an antique or two if you don't think that's possible. Family heirlooms, jewelry, things of that nature. In light of all that, the bank's actions seem almost criminally irresponsible.

My point is, there are far too many valid reasons for this to not be allowed at all, and only one reason for it to happen (which amounts to "because the bank can"). I'd prefer that people be given time, by law, to at least be personally notified so they can remove their belongings. In other words, I'd prefer the bank couldn't.

[slackmaster]

43. How would you compensate the bank, mortgagor, trustee, etc. for loss of use of the property?

They have rights too. When someone who hasn't made a house (or rent) payment in five or six months refuses to leave, the new lawful owner is harmed.

What would you propose to offset that harm, in exchange for people being able to stay in their former homes indefinitely?

[Occulus]

49. First you have to show me the new lawful owner (the bank) is harmed in the first place.

A home doesn't have to be empty until it is sold again.

I would also say, banks, as corporations, should have no rights, of any kind. They are not persons. The people living there, however, are. Their rights should, were we in a sane and rational world, trump the bank's, in just about each and every case.

This is yet another situation which could be greatly alleviated by the elimination of corporate personhood.

[slackmaster]

62. Obviously the holder of a note who is not getting paid is being harmed

Jeez Louise!

:argh:

I would also say, banks, as corporations, should have no rights, of any kind. They are not persons.

I've got news for you: Some mortgagors ARE individual human beings.

[northzax]

106. just because you own the property

doesn't mean you can evict without following the correct procedures. And in almost every jurisdiction, this requires a sheriff to serve the eviction notice, (in DC, for instance, it is Federal Marshals) and be present during the actual eviction process.

[Tesha]

118. And what do we know about whether or not that was done in this case? (NT)

[northzax]

119. well, the op didn't mention anyone in uniform

if one of these men knocking on the door was dressed in a sheriff's uniform, that would have been helpful information.

[Tesha]

122. The message may have been long since delivered.

If that's the case, you don't need the Sheriff to eject
people living illegally on your property.

These people were almost certainly told (in a suitably
officious way) ahead of time about what was going to
happen and when and were simply living in denial that
that day would ever come.

I'm not saying this is how it *SHOULD* work, but here in
America (motto: "Fuck the poor!"), this is how it *DOES*
work.

Tesha

[northzax]

123. in every place I have looked into

the Sheriff must be present at the time of the actual eviction. I'm not saying it was a suprise to the people living there, but having the person in uniform present protects both the evitors and the evictees (would you try to evict someone in a gun toting society without the law present?) if you were the resident, would you allow some schmuck who claims to have the right to evict you, who you don't know, simply kick you out because they say they can? in many jurisdictions there are rules about handling certain types of posessions (like animals) what about children? maybe there is a child under 18 present, without an adult, who calls Social Services? (you can't actually throw a kid out on the street without a parent or guardian) or someone who needs assistance moving themselves, not even their stuff (maybe an invalid, for instance)

there are all sorts of good reasons to ensure the presence of a unformed peace officer at an eviction.

[Lex]

28. They likely had plenty of notice to move their stuff out but didn't.

All states have 20 days or more of Notice of the Hearing for Foreclosre, then 2 more weeks for the Foreclosure Sale itself to take place, then after that, the stuff remaining in the house is moved out.

There would've been plenty of time for the homeowner to move it out himself most probably, but didn't.

[Occulus]

40. That's the sort of information I was looking for.

My basis was that, as a renter, I've always known that a landlord can't simply toss your belongings on the lawn and change the locks without actually evicting the renter, which as you said involves plenty of time to move your things.

I wonder why that wasn't done in this case, assuming the bank didn't simply and flagrantly violate those laws outright. It sounds to me as though the bank was trying to serve some paper or other.

If it was a final judgment in their favor, they were exceedingly unprofessional and unethical about it, and if I were the judge that issued it, I'd strongly consider reversing my own order in light of their conduct.

Crap like this does not sit well with me.

[jojo54]

10. THE END IS NEAR!!

The Hitler state that G.W.IhatetheAmericanWayBush has been creating, has finally arrived! And I don't buy this bullshit about people shouldn't buy homes that they know they can't afford. Yes, they're neglectful by not doing their homework, but they were led to believe that "everything will be taken care of" and it's coming back to haunt them.

[DemoTex]

16. Look at the text of the spam I received from Quicken Loans this morning:

HOMEWORKS (Quicken Loans)

The FHA Express can put you back on track!

If you’re looking to refinance or buy a home with a more flexible home loan program, you should know that FHA loan amount limits just went up across the country! That means you can enjoy lower down payments and relaxed credit guidelines on higher loan amounts, plus the security of knowing that FHA Express is a government-backed loan. Quicken Loans makes your FHA Express process faster and easier than anywhere else with exclusive technology and fast approvals.

In today’s market, this could be the solution that puts you back on track to reaching your goals. Learn more or call today to see if it’s right for you.

Courtesy of Warren Coleman, [phone] x 12509

(My bold and underline)

They are STILL being led to believe that "everything will be taken care of" .. E-Z money .. E-Z terms .. etc., etc.! It is unbelievable to me that Quicken is still pushing this shit.

[SoCalDem]

17. Countrywide is STILL on tv here with ads

asking people to roll car loans & credit cards into a NEW low cost mortgage:wtf:

[Lance_Boyle]

21. Que?

"I don't buy this bullshit about people shouldn't buy homes that they know they can't afford."

So you're saying that people SHOULD buy houses they know they can't afford? And then they should retain those houses when it is discovered that they can't afford them? Am I reading you right?

[Occulus]

46. I think it's more, the banks are STILL extending irresponsible loans

because they know there are still a large number of, pardon me, suckers who either can't be bothered to know or don't know what they're getting into. What the poster seems to be trying to say, and which I will state a little more clearly, is that a large number of people are assuming the people buying the homes know they can't actually afford them, when in reality many of them may be being led to believe by the banks themselves that they can.

And, since the bank is and always has been, financially, a Figure of Authority who would Never, Ever Lie To Us (:rofl:), they get trusted.

Now, what happens when people stop fully trusting banks? I think that's why they're still extending irresponsible loans (like Countryside, elsewhere in this thread). They literally cannot stand to be distrusted.

[MadHound]

36. So you think that somebody should simply go ahead and buy a house

That is way over their budget, with no money down, using an ARM, simply because some greedhead mortgage salesperson assures them "everythiing will be taken care of?" Gee, should people then go on to buy various bridges, acres of swampland and submerged property because some greedhead hustler tells them the same thing? C'mon, a house is usually the largest investment most people make in their lives, and as such a person needs to do their homework, and bone up on the knowledge so that they can make informed decisions rather than relying on the vague promises of some bank or loan official. Frankly, if you fail to do so you're just asking for trouble, and that's been a truism for a long, long time.

[annabanana]

44. To the unsophisticated, the "greedhead mortgage salesperson "

Is a professional, who knows way more about this stuff than they do. When people "buy a house", not everyone really gets that all they own is the mortgage...

[MadHound]

51. LOL, being a professional doesn't make them any less greedy,

And while they may have the advantage in knowledge, a person who is buying a house should, and for a long while did, educate themselves on at least enough of the basics to not get ripped off. It is in the last decade or so that all the sudden people started putting in as much time and effort into researching a housing purchase as they did into making an impulse purchase.

As I said earlier, both parties are to blame in this mess.

[taught_me_patience]

68. Here is a very simple rule to live by...

Never trust somebody who's livelyhood depends on selling you something.

[Ichingcarpenter]

11. In our Condo units we have 4 that are foreclosed

Yes, I did know some of them and saw them move out.

Around the neighborhood, where I walk the dog, the homes are or were in the $700-550 thousand range.
They put a Foreclosure sign of Auction on one house that covers the whole garage.
Our condos have gone from $300 thousand selling range to $190 thousand in two years.

California is getting hit hard and this no matter how the Government spins it
will be a economic disaster.

[PA Democrat]

12. OMG, I hope those kids didn't come home from school to see all of their belongings piled in the yard

[SoCalDem]

15. I don't know, but they may have.. My guess is that someone

might have gotten hold of one of the parents & maybe they came home.. I haven't talked to my friend..It;s too early to call her..She worked 4-midnight:evilgrin:

[Purveyor]

13. We have an 80-yo aunt who just missed being foreclosed on this past month. Not for a mortgage

but because of past-due 2006 property taxes.

The amount wasn't that much, $2100 and just 2 years past due but by God, the county was going to foreclose anyway.

The family organized and we managed to pay her past due taxes.

[lpbk2713]

14. That had to be a shocker for the kids when they got home from school.

.... more victims of the evil and corrupt BushCo war on the middle class.

[yardwork]

18. Nice family values at work in the U.S.A.

[dysfunctional press]

79. i would think that the people had plenty of notice as to when the foreclosure date is.

:shrug:

[chixydix]

95. Which family values are those? The ones that say if a family can't afford something

they should get it for nothing?
:eyes:

[lildreamer316]

103. Certainly hope you don't claim to be a Christian.

Some day, someone somewhere has to give a damn about someone else. It's not the most evil thing in the world to have compassion.

Maybe a bit more of it would mean everyone would have a place to live.

[chixydix]

112. No, I most assuredly have never claimed to be a Xian.

Nor am I without compassion...that's cheap. Underwriting everyone's mortgage is expensive. Have you paid off a lot of them for strangers? If not, don't fucking lecture me.

[shain from kane]

20. Sounds like eviction for nonpayment of rent. Foreclosure is a long legal process, and there is

plenty of warning to vacate and move your possessions, if you want them. You can even reclaim the property before the final procedures are completed, if you borrow the money from another source (good luck), or sell something else, or inherit money, or appeal to relatives. But there is a time period allowed. I also thank bankruptcy proceedings can slow the foreclosure.

[flvegan]

24. California has both a judicial and a non-judicial process

depending on the Deed of Trust, IIRC. The judicial process is like you describe, and can be relatively easy to prolong. The non-judicial process can be very quick. As quick as 30 days if I recall correctly.

[SoCalDem]

26. There was a for sale sign in the yard

but then there are 4 or 5 for sale in her cul de sac.. There are many people in my town who are trying to re-negotiate, and all during the process, there are flurries of papers bening sent back and forth and probably many phone calls.. I'm guessing that people are always hopefull that things will get "worked out"..until they don't :(

[flvegan]

32. I read your Post #7, and I wish more lenders would realize this.

They take a bath on almost every foreclosure. Then, that drives values in neighborhoods down and people can't refi, hurting both the lenders and the homeowners. It's really kind of an idiotic little circle.

Keep a loan performing by any means necessary. Just because some Crystal report burps out a loan number that just hit day 90 of default does NOT mean you should just start to foreclose.

[Ichingcarpenter]

27. I saw the non-judicial action done on two neighbors

It happened really quick, both were unaware of their rights
until it was too late.

[slackmaster]

33. The non-judicial process is reduced to 10 days for subsidized housing

If the police complain to the landlord that there is illegal activity going on, a landlord can physically boot subsidized tenants in just 10 days.

For nonpayment of rent, it's typically 40 days.

[EFerrari]

83. Eviction is also a very long process and there is plenty of warning.

[northzax]

107. only if the Sheriff was there

you need a sheriff or marshal to serve eviction papers. even after getting a writ of eviction, the landlord still needs to get the local authority to serve the notice. In DC, for instance, which has insanely friendly tenant laws, this alone can take 6 months. and you don't know until the day before, if you call, what addresses are on the list for tomorrow. in DC they do about four a day, including businesses, foreclosures and renters, maybe five, and it is done by the US marshals service. however, they check the weather forecast at 8am every day, if there is a greater than 50% chance of rain in the next 24 hours, or if the predicted low is below 35 degrees in the next 24 hours, they do no evictions that day. remember the dead children found in January? that was the only day they did evictions that entire month. and the writ was granted in May.

[LeftyMom]

120. No, in California you can't legally throw property on the lawn, at any point in the eviction.

There's a procedure for dealing with abandoned property, it has to be stored for a specified period, notice has to be served, the tenant has the right to get the stuff back if the pay for storage fees, and if that doesn't happen property of value has to be sold off and applied to the debt.

Either this story stinks, or that family's going to make a small fortune off of whoever pitched their stuff.

[asjr]

23. I keep saying to myself

How did all this happen? Unfortunately, I know how it happened. After the relatively good years of the Clintons we believed the good times would continue to roll. Our lives were invaded by a "compassionate" conservative puppet who gained the presidency through his other conservative buddies on the Supreme Court. Some people thought a change was necessary. We certainly got that change. A change that has bankrupted not only our citizens, but our country as well. The Republicans and their smooth-talking tongues led us from a surplus ecomony to the absolute depths of despair. How anyone, and I mean anyone, could vote Republican, especially one like McCain, this year must be out of his or her mind. I hope we can recover. If we do it will take forever, and I do not have that long.

[Contrary1]

25. My friend's home was foreclosed on last year...

Long story involving bad spending habits, divorce, job loss, and bankruptcy. She knew weeks in advance when she had to be out. She also knew that anything left in the house beyond that date would no longer be hers.

She went from a four bedroom log cabin on 10 acres to a 2 bedroom apartment, and she was lucky to get that. After talking to 30+ places, only 2 were willing to accept her as a tenant. She had to leave a lot of stuff behind. She and I spent many hours going through boxes in the attic, deciding what she would have room for.

My husband and I made the last 5 payments on her car, or she would have lost that too. She eventually found a job paying half of what her previous employer paid, but there was no way she was going to be able to keep her house.

Her neighbor said that there were trucks and dumpsters there the very next day.

[Occulus]

52. I bet the bank laughed all the way back to itself.

How much was their (completely legal!! :grr:) booty worth in dollars, I wonder?

What do they do with all the left over 'stuff'? Trash it? Not if they're "smart", they won't, not without looking through it first. Unless, of course, the law forbids it.

They'd never break the law... would they? :sarcasm:

[Contrary1]

65. Fortunately, I was able to take carloads

of clothing, household items, nic-nacs etc, to Goodwill. Her adult children were of no help, so a lot of their stuff remained behind. My brother was able to take a trailer load of her nicer belongings to auction for her, but they brought only pennies on the dollar. Still, she was happy with that, as those were additional things she had no room for.

I have some of her stuff in my garage and attic. And, I agreed to "store" outdoor items for her in my yard, such as lawn furniture, bird baths, bird houses, in case she is ever able to have another home.

The other day she mentioned that she wished she had kept a particular box of stuff, and was thrilled to hear that I had disregarded her order to take it to Goodwill. She has no idea how many things of hers I kept...just in case.

She'll be ok.

[opihimoimoi]

29. Blame the GOP for the PERFECT RECESSION

[MadHound]

38. Blame stupidity and greed on the part of both lenders and buyers

This is what happens when greed collides with stupidity. Greed on the part of the lenders and stupidity on the part of the buyers. And guess what, once again those of us who have done the right thing, made the smart decisions get to clean up the mess for those who didn't, using our tax dollars and suffering the effects of a trashed economy.

This isn't solely the fault of the GOP. Clinton and the corporate Dems played a large part last decade when they started deregulated the banking industry and gutted Glas-Steagle. In addition, individuals need to take responsibility for not making smart informed decisions rather than the impulse buys a lot of these people made.

[opihimoimoi]

50. I agree...however....the mess I was refering to included all of the

decisions past and present that led to our National Problems

I blame it mostly on the GOP and their man Bush...

[NNN0LHI]

41. Ever see the vultures ransacking peoples belongings after they have been evicted?

I have. Not a pretty sight to see.

Don

[livetohike]

45. My cul-de-sac I lived on in San Diego County has had

four such foreclosures since we left in Dec. 2006. There are 30 homes on that street and everyone knows everyone else. It was a nice neighborhood and I feel sorry for my former neighbors.

[taught_me_patience]

48. I have no sympathy for this couple

they had plenty of time to remove their belongings. They probably stopped paying their mortgage a year ago and have been living free for the past year. When repeated warnings don't work to make you move voluntarily, then drastic measures have to be taken.

[Occulus]

54. What is all this believing the worst about the people living there

and not the bank I'm seeing flying around this thread?

Why are so many people taking such a position, when it is already known that banks have lately been extending an extraordinary number of loans with completely irresponsible terms attached to them? At a time when banks have to know that people are losing their jobs left and right, more and more companies are relying upon temps who can be fired literally on a whim, and more and more people are being bankrupted by the health insurance industry for health issues completely outside their control, no less.

Why aren't we heaping scorn on the banks for creating and fueling this catastrophic mess in the first place?

[slackmaster]

64. You have no way of knowing that the mortgagor is in fact a bank

Or even a corporation.

[taught_me_patience]

67. I worked for an "evil" mortgage lender

In fact it was the biggest mortgage lender in the country. I was involved in subprime marketing. Your view of banks is simply distorted and false. Banks made bad loans and are now paying the consequences. They have not gotten off scott free. Thousands of my former colleagues are being laid off as I write this. The BORROWERS are just as complicit in this problem. So many people falsified documents, put zero down, took out helocs to pay for lavish vacations, took out neg. amortization arms. Going into foreclosure is a consequence of these poor decisions by the borrower.

Ultimately, the majority of the blame must be put on the individual who chose to enter a contract that they could not fulfill.

[Hannah Bell]

71. BS. It's the lenders' responsibility to do due diligence.

They have the resources. If they were fooled, it's because they wanted to be.

But given the stories about how these loans were pushed - & of who got them - they weren't fooled, for the most part.

[Gormy Cuss]

114. Exactly.

To be sure, in addition to those borrowers who were mislead or naive about the process there were borrowers who should have known better and some who were milking the system but bottom line is that the lenders have no valid excuse for this mess.

[Javaman]

98. It's the same disconnection that I see flying all over GD these days...

I see many expressing this of total self righteousness when banks, loan companies, etc, fail and get pissed when they get bailed out, yet when a home owner gets kicked out, it's the homeowners fault and get angry over proposals to help the homeowner with a bail proposition.

then there are the others that get pissed because, their property value is dropping because of foreclosed houses in their neighborhoods, but be damned it that neighbor who got screwed by an ARM gets helped out by the government and is allow to keep their home!!:wtf:??

At the same time, they crow about how the market should be allowed to fail and reset. Yet get angry when their investments are losing value!

the circular firing squad cluster fuck propaganda has turned many of us into mindless knee-jerking morons, without the ability of critical thought.

[LSK]

59. you have NO IDEA what the circumstances were so DO NOT JUDGE

[Rage for Order]

92. Regardless of the circumstances

They were in the house a minimum of 120 days after they stopped making their mortgage payments. Note holders don't even begin foreclosure proceedings until you're 120 days late. They then have to go through the proper legal channels to get a court order to evict the occupants. The occupants are then notified that they have to vacate the home by a certain date. Finally, on that date (usually at least 180 days after they made their last mortgage payment), the bank (or whomever) will arrive and take ownership of the house. Six months notice is more than enough time for someone to line up storage at a mini-warehouse if nothing else.

[depakid]

117. delete

[Lars39]

53. One thing that's being overlooked:

Their credit rating may have gone from excellent to very bad, making it very hard to impossible to find anything to rent.

[Occulus]

56. Now suppose they couldn't continue to pay on their mortgage due to

health insurance issues, which is the case for so very very many people.

They're creating a subpopulation of sick, homeless people. Their numbers will continue to grow.

And, WTF is with landlords checking one's credit rating? As a renter, I'm buying nothing, and they already have information about my job and where I work (which, by the way, is one of the very few remaining jobs which are almost certain to continue to exist, and instantly recognizable as such). Were I to lose my job, assuming I "owned" a home mortgage, I would very quickly find my credit rating in the toilet and be unable to rent in many places even with my income.

This has to stop.

[Lars39]

57. I agree.

Given the choice between living in my vehicle or staying until the last minute in a home I couldn't pay on, I'd choose to stay until the last minute, too, especially if it gave me time to scrape money together for deposits(if I could even find a place that would overlook a bad credit rating.)

[slackmaster]

63. I wouldn't want to rent to someone who has a history of not paying bills on time

This isn't rocket science.

[Lars39]

66. Neither are the causes...with about half of all bankruptcies due to medical bills.

[otohara]

58. Why Is It Necessary to Humiliate

people? Hard enough you're losing your home, then to have thugs come and dump your stuff on the yard.

[slackmaster]

61. What would you suggest as an alternative?

How would you compensate the new owner of the property, be that a bank, trustee, government entity, individual, etc. for loss of use of the property, and for how long?

[Occulus]

72. In what way is a bank using the property?

We are speaking strictly of banks here, so drop the inclusion of individuals. I'm dead certain the crisis involves far more banks and other corporate entities than individual lenders.

Why does a home owned by a bank, a nonperson, have to sit empty (and possibly be seriously damaged or vandalized in the process, probably reducing the value of surrounding properties) in order to be sold?

In fact, why do buildings owned by banks sit empty while waiting to be sold at all? I see a solution to a growing homeless problem that is distasteful only to owners who cannot actually use the property.

I realize that this just isn't how things are done. My argument is that that is part of the larger problem.

[slackmaster]

74. Any way they want to use it - That is their right as the lawful owners!

Why does a home owned by a bank, a nonperson, have to sit empty (and possibly be seriously damaged or vandalized in the process, probably reducing the value of surrounding properties) in order to be sold?

They might want to clean it up in order to get the best possible price. Maybe the place has repairs that need to be made before it can even be legally sold. Who knows? What difference does it make what the bank (or whoever) wants to do with it? That is their business.

In fact, why do buildings owned by banks sit empty while waiting to be sold at all?

REOs are financial liabilities for whoever owns them. There are maintenance costs, property tax, insurance, usually even utilities if you want to have them in saleable condition.

[spinbaby]

69. A house in our neighborhood is up for auction

Also a foreclosure, but complicated circumstances involving a death. Our neighborhood is already deteriorating, the last thing we need is a house sitting empty with an auction sign in front of it. I'm betting it will be vandalized.

Has anyone else noticed how many formerly nice working-class neighborhoods are going to hell?

[SoCalDem]

77. the one next door to us has an auction sign on it

but after all the vandalism, it;s gonna cost about 50K just to fix it..It should be a bargain for someone who's handy though.. It should sell for around $100 K.. 4 bedroom almost 2K sq ft..

[Xithras]

70. Ummm, that is NOT legal in California.

Unless the law is different for banks. I used to own several rentals, and had to evict tenants on more than one occassion. When it happened, I was legally required to move their belongings into storage and hold them for 18 days before disposing of ANYTHING. To obtain their belongings, the evicted tenants simply had to pay the charges for the storage rental (I only had to resort to that once, and I ended up waiving the rental fee and just gave the guy his stuff). I couldn't hold them ransom for the back rent or ANYTHING. If they weren't claimed in 18 days, I had the right to auction or sell the property to cover the debts owed to me.

I was told point blank by my lawyer that if I disposed of a tenants property, the tenant had grounds to sue me for the properties value. If I dumped it into the yard, the tenant merely had to claim that their property was stolen because of my actions, and again could sue me.

I feel for these people though. My sister is going through foreclosure right now, and now how desperate it can be. They let all of their other bills go overdue in a desperate attempt to keep up with their skyrocketing mortgage payment, so now their credit score is shot AND they're still losing the home.

This reinforces something that many financial experts have been saying for a while. DO THE MATH NOW. If your skyrocketing mortgage is not affordable and you will be broke in a few months, you are better off walking away before that happens. You will be MUCH better off financially if you leave the home with money in the bank and otherwise perfect credit, than if you wait and drain your life savings to fight a battle you can't win, destroying your credit in the process. A foreclosure looks very bad on a credit report, but if it's the only negative mark in an otherwise solid credit history, rental owners will typically understand. If you destroy your credit and blow your savings in a pointless attempt to save a home you'll never be able to afford, you're simply making the bank richer and are hurting yourself immensely.

[earth mom]

76. This is the saddest thing. Can you imagine those kids coming home from school

to all their stuff on the lawn?!

:cry:

[Stinky The Clown]

81. Tough shit for the kids. Their parents are deadbeats. The kids deserve it ........

..... or so some who replied to this thread would seem to believe.

[earth mom]

85. What's happening across this country is criminal & the wrong people are being punished. nt

[Stinky The Clown]

86. My view on this whole mess ........

..... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3096357

[distantearlywarning]

101. That happened to my grandfather and his brother during the Depression.

They came home from school one day and all of the family's stuff was on the lawn.

Then the Sheriff took them aside, told them that their sole remaining parent had died (found out later it was suicide) and the bank was foreclosing on the property. Then he gave them $5 each and told them they should go find work somewhere else because nobody could support them. My grandfather was 11 years old at the time.

This is an absolutely 100% true story - my grandfather told it to me, and it was confirmed by two other relatives who were there. That's the kind of thing we might have to look forward to again in this country if things keep going as they are.

BTW, my grandpa ended up working for a farmer in another state for 5 years until he was old enough to lie about his age and join the Army. He told me that the Army was one of the few places a man could reasonably expect to have "3 hots and a cot" daily in those times, so lots of people wanted to join up. They literally had waiting lists to join the Armed Forces.

It'd sure be nice for BushCo to have to turn people away from service, wouldn't it? We'd have no problem waging war on Iran or anywhere else if lots of able-bodied American citizens desperately wanted to sign up. Ok, that's my tin-foil hat thought for the week... :tinfoilhat:

[lildreamer316]

104. Woah. THERE'S the connection I was looking for.

I don't think that's all so far-fetched.

[dysfunctional press]

80. you would think that they would have known by what date they had to be out...

and would have made other arrangements.
people don't just show up out of the blue and throw your stuff out- you are given fair and ample warning.

[SoCalDem]

82. My friend did not know them, so I don't know the back story

I DO know that there are MANY people out here who are desperately trying and trying to re-fi or do short-sales.. It's possible that they kept trying well past the time when they should have been packing stuff up..

My friend won't be home for a few hours, so I won't know if they ever showed up..
I hope they did not just walk away and leave their dog behind:(.. My friend already has 2 dogs..

[MadMaddie]

88. Americans are getting booted by the banks, if that is the rule

okay.

But we better make damned sure that the * administration doesn't try to bail out these banks as their stocks continue to sink and they have a but load of properties they can't sell.

This works both ways, in some states the cities are suing the banks or homeowners for the upkeep of the property until it is sold.

[csziggy]

89. A co-worker of DH's is fighting foreclosure

DH says he bought the house (water-front property in a modest neighborhood) for a really good price two years ago. He paid a 20% down payment and has not missed a single payment. The mortgage holder has increased the interest rates so the payment is now three times it was originally. Now the mortgage holder says the house is not worth the loan and the man no longer has any equity. Mortgage holder wants to refinance the house for an even higher interest rate, collect additional down payment to make up for the lost equity. This would leave the home owner paying even more for a house that apparently is not worth what he originally paid for it. He's been fighting this for over a year with the help of an attorney. Now he's putting the house on the market and will walk away from it - he will not pay another penny on it.

So what did this man do wrong? I guess he bought a house at the wrong time.

[lildreamer316]

105. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Lance_Boyle]

108. He purchased an ARM instead of a fixed rate mortgage.

If he was able to put down 20% as a down payment, why in the HELL would he have opted for an ARM over a fixed-rate mortgage? Poor choice on his part. But I bet he enjoyed the artificially low rates for those two years.

[BlooInBloo]

109. He gambled. He lost. We pay for it. Thanks DH!

[Gormy Cuss]

115. He wasn't sophisticated enough to understand the terms of the mortgage

and that apparently translates into "Fool me once, shame on me."

[windbreeze]

90. Unless we've walked a mile in these people's shoes...we have NO clue

what put them in this spot, OR how hard they tried to avoid it...Some compassion wouldn't hurt this thread...There but for the grace of God...you know the rest, right...? There go I...It could happen to any of us, no matter how well off we think we are at any point in time...and I think the whole thing is profoundly sad...My daughter lost her house last year...and some people have NO idea what it does to the kids...I do...wb

[Bonobo]

91. Time for a new Shay's Rebellion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shays'_Rebellion

Started here in W. Mass.

We'll watch out for our neighbors if they start pulling this Ohio shit on us.

[bdamomma]

94. oh god, this is so sad.

[spooky3]

96. Sounds as if you have a very nice neighborhood

where people try to look out for each other, the one silver lining in this sad story. Thanks to your neighbor for taking care of the dog. I really hope things work out for everyone.

[BlooInBloo]

97. Did your friend have a fix30 or some other?

[SoCalDem]

99. ***** UPDATE*****

My friend called me to tell me that they came back for their dog, and their stuff..

Apparently, the wife was "handling" the phone calling to try an get a re-do, and it all just became too much for her, so she just "put her faith in God", and obviously, things did not work out..

The old guy with the lawnchair, got other neighbors to haul their stuff to various garages in the cul de sac, and yesterday they rented a U-Haul & helped the family put their stuff in a storage place.

Apparently they "knew" they were going to have to go, but had not come to terms with it all before it happened.

The kids did NOT come home to their stuff in the yard, because the lawnchair-guy's wife met them before they got to the corner, and filled them in..
The kids then called their Mom & she came home as soon as possible..(she was coming home from work in an hour or so anyway at that time)..

They are going to stay with friends in a nearby town until they get their life back together.. No one saw the Dad..he was out of town on business, so I guess his wife will have to fill him in by long distance..

No details on the financial part..since it's not our business anyway.. but they got their stuff and their pet and the drama is over for now..

Now my friend's husband is worried that their next-door-house willl end up like the one next door to us :grr:..spray paint grafittied & vandalized :grr:

[Bozita]

102. Thanks for the update. That's about the best one could have hoped for.

Dog is back with family and stuff is in various storage sites.

So damned sad!

[raccoon]

111. That's great that the people in the community helped them out the way they did. nt

[slackmaster]

116. Kudos to Mr. and Mrs. Lawnchair-Guy!

Very nice people.

[Zorra]

100. Ahhh, "The Grapes of Wrath". No wonder it's the essential "Great American Novel". n/t

[flpoljunkie]

110. And, yet this is what happened in the Senate today. They caved on the bankruptcy provision!

Senators ditch aid in housing bill

By: Victoria McGrane and Martin Kady II
April 3, 2008 10:20 AM EST

Mortgage companies are embracing it. The home builders who overreached in the housing boom stand to gain billions in tax breaks. And investors who snap up foreclosed homes will get a sweet tax credit.

But consumer groups?

They feel like the spirit of compromise on Capitol Hill has left them out on the curb.

As the Senate unveiled its bipartisan housing bill on Wednesday evening, it was clear that the path to passage meant ditching the provisions that might help hundreds of thousands of homeowners but would be seen as a “bailout” by Republican critics.

As a result, housing advocates are feeling steamrolled because a bankruptcy provision aimed at helping homeowners in foreclosure was removed from the bill. The compromise bill also slashed in half the foreclosure prevention funds proposed in the original Democratic bill.

Without empowering bankruptcy judges to reduce mortgage interest and principal for struggling homeowners, “this bill amounts to dancing around a fire when Congress is supposed to be putting it out,” Wade Henderson, president of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights, said in a statement.

“When the government can bail out Bear Stearns — a company that made a fortune in bad mortgages — it can surely ease the strains of ordinary American homeowners who aren’t as sophisticated as a Wall Street firm and help them keep their biggest asset.”

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=11AACB23-3048-5C12-00C2AC8AEF20A7BE

[Pisces]

113. Wow that doesn't sound right. They should have padlocked the door and made arrangements '

with the owners to retrieve their items. They should have also been notified of the date.

[demodonkey]

121. Damn predatory banks. They screw up making loans, they get bailed out. Human beings get tossed...

...to the street when they run into financial trouble.

I hope the damn CEO of the damn bank that made that loan enjoys his or her good warm bed tonight.

PIGS.