Are you for or against reparations for slavery?

[billbuckhead]

[midnight]

1. Are we talking about women, children, blacks, chinese, who?

Take a look at this.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvQm8Khnbjo

[Forkboy]

2. You first.

[Aristus]

3. Any chance of making the beneficiaries of slavery pay the victims of it

ended during Reconstruction when Union soldiers, "carpetbaggers", and others looted the Southern plantations of their ill-gained wealth.

Such a transfer of wealth today, if it were even possible, would help nobody and hurt everybody.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

4. I veoted No

Everyone owes everyone money in this world when the English give theirs to the Irish Ill share proportionately with others..

[Breeze54]

5. So, AA will pay taxes and then pay themselves?

I don't see how it would work. How do you think it would work?
If there were going to be any reparations it should have been
awarded to the actual slaves. Now, I think with taxes, etc. it
gets very confusing. Better opportunities and college educations,
etc. should be the way to go now.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

6. You also have African Americans

who are the descendants of people who were not slaves, whites who are descended from slaves, African Americans who are the descendants of slave owners, ...

Its really way too much..

[Breeze54]

9. And not all

caucasion's even lived here during that time.

I think it would be a convoluted mess.

[JoDog]

38. And not all white people

owned slaves. My ancestors always lived north of the Mason-Dixon line, and were too poor to afford servants beyond hired farm hands. I am the descendant of a private who rode with the Kansas Union calvary. Slavery was a horrible institution, but should I be forced to pay for something my family was never a part of, and in fact one member risked his life to end?

[XemaSab]

82. Exactly

My family came here in the 1880's.

We had NOTHING to do with the war or slavery, on either side. :shrug:

[Matariki]

160. And every Ancestor since then married people who also came here later than 1880?

I bet not.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

198. Why is that not likely

A crap load of people came here later than 1880!

My great grand parents on my fathers side came over in the 1900's and settled into a neighborhood of recent immigrants their kids had kids with other recent immigrants (same on my mothers side) but a different immigrant group in a different area. Of my 8 ancestral roots going back to my great grandparents none of whom were in this nation before 1880 one more generation and there might be one but I'm not entirely sure what decade they came in.

[BryMan]

93. Exactly

My family were poor dirt farmers in Miss. making the thought of owning a slave impossible.

One of my other ancestors was Abe Lincoln, I'll count myself right out then LOL.

[Matariki]

159. I got news for you. Slavery existed NORTH of the Mason-Dixon line too.

Slavery in the north didn't end until the late 18th Century. Even Quakers employed slaves.

The North just didn't have the large scale agriculture the South had.

Anyway, most Americans probably have at least one slaveholder in their gene pool.

[readmoreoften]

8. Not out of tax money, but from corporations that are still around today who were founded on slavery.

For example, a lawyer and a historian proved that Fleet bank was founded on the labor of slaves. I say time for Fleet bank to pay up. (Though I think it merged into Bank of America.) I don't think it should come out of taxes though. That's just money circulation amongst the poor and middle classes.

[libnnc]

10. Lloyds of London too, I think

[defendandprotect]

26. Exactly . . . many corporations ... royalty simply morphed into corporations . . .

[Virginia Dare]

47. They'd just pass the cost on to us in some fashion or another..

I just don't think it's possible.

[BigDaddy44]

78. Who should they pay reparations TO?

[treestar]

190. IA, it's too late. It could have been done in the 1860s in theory

But now, whoever benefitted is unidentifiable.

[readmoreoften]

7. Totally for if the corporations still exist.

There was a lawyer who went up against Fleet bank. A corporation commits human rights violations 150 years ago, I say go for it. Oh yeah, also, if they commit human rights violations currently they should also pay reparations. OH SHIT! THEY'D ALL BE BANKRUPT... bummer for them.

[Breeze54]

11. I think Fleet is Bank of America now, and there

are many wealthy families that got rich off the cotton, cattle and sugar cane, etc.

But how the hell could anyone figure out who was who and what was what?

[readmoreoften]

14. The Fleet lawsuit was before the merger.

Historians can figure out what was what. Who owned slaves was a public record. It was only 100 years ago. That's like 4-5 generations. If those who owned slaves are no longer wealthy, then I think they should be reprieved, but given notice of their family history. That being said, I think that the corporations should be the 1st targets.

[Breeze54]

22. Yeah, but I was thinking of the descendants of the slaves.

;)

[Zynx]

12. Absolutely opposed.

There are other ways of righting the wrongs without this ridiculous step. Most Americans today probably have either no relation or very limited relation to slave owners.

[Elwood P Dowd]

13. This thread should be locked!

Wake up mods.

[readmoreoften]

15. Hunh?

:crazy:

[beezlebum]

20. i've alerted this

guy several times. his posts crying "white blaming" (rev wright) were deleted.

not only should it be locked, but imo a tombstoning is long overdue.

[orleans]

33. why? why should the thread be locked? n/t

[TheUniverse]

35. I guess some people would rather censorship to debate.

[beezlebum]

40. there is a difference

in good old fashioned controversial discussion. and then you have simple race-baiting, like this guy's crap- a search and some critical thought might be useful: "white blaming" referring to rev wright; "hillary's opponent is the affirmative action candidate" referring to obama; "obama can't win be/c of the working class white vote" and "affirmative action is not fair to non-whites" or something along those lines- come on- nonwhites? the only people i've heard use that term in the context bill used it are racists, and bbh seems rather preoccupied with the subject.

i could be convinced that deleting this crap would be "censorship," but for a number of reasons in bbh's case, i'm absolutely not.

i have read his bile before. there is little doubt in my mind that there is a sheet in his closet that is not used for bedding. and having grown up around such people, it is my experience that "racebaiting" is no attempt on the part of a blood-boiling racist to simply spark "debate."

the objective is to get people to unwittingly admit their own hidden racism, and spark heated controversy- flaming? flamebait? racebait? hm?

had yuckhead posted his own detailed opinions and made it clear that his intentions were innocent and made his case for wanting to know A) whether we here @ DU think slavery reparations are in order and B) whether we here @ DU think the time has come to end affirmative action, perhaps there wouldn't be a few sentient beings here who think this dude needs to go.

i'm willing to bet he's not supporting the democratic nominee.

on edit: grammatical error fecks with my head if i don't curreckt it.

[TheUniverse]

70. I dont know the history of this user.

This is the first time I've seen him. But I see nothing wrong with this. He is asking do you support slavery reparations. Is that a subject we are just not allowed to discuss?

[beezlebum]

76. re-read my post.

i already explained why i have a problem with it.

[Judi Lynn]

42. Race bating has NEVER been debate. This thread should be locked. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

44. I kinda like the flypaper myself.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

67. Why?

Thus far it has not been a flame war weve seen people say 'yes from companies' and nobody is flaming them... and weve seen people say no and they are likewise not flamed..

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

84. Didja see his comments in GD:P yesterday?

Yeesh.

[dogday]

162. You will have to plow through a lot of muck to find

his comments in GD-P.. Watch where you step, land mines everywhere....

[Coexist]

197. who's comments?

[Richard Steele]

154. Yup. It's hit-n-run flamebait from a master baiter. nm

[Hugabear]

157. Why, because you don't think it should be discussed?

Even if you don't agree with the subject, it's still a legitimate topic.

[Hippo_Tron]

195. If it were posted in GD:P I'd agree

[Warpy]

16. It's a nonissue because there aren't any former slaves

left alive.

Thanks for posting a right wing red herring, though. It pays to stay in practice.

[Swamp Rat]

17. I am for reparations for slavery and Manifest Destiny, for as long as it takes to ensure economic

justice has been achieved.

[beezlebum]

18. i love it swamp rat. n/t

[Swamp Rat]

21. Way'at hawt!

:hi:

It's dat time of year! :9

[beezlebum]

23. yeah you right!

:toast:

[defendandprotect]

28. Absolutely . . . . one day these things may happen . . . in the meantime ....

maybe we can think of at least acknowledging the wrong we have done to native Americans and Africans in America and their children in Segregation for another 100 years . . . ?

These are but two more examples of the violence and brutality of some of those who have run our "people's government" . . . !!

There is a very interesting book I'd like to see made into a movie --- it's "The Debt" by
Randall Robinson ---

Here's a link if you're not familiar with him ---
http://www.jcu.edu/pubaff/newsandevents/randall_robinson.htm

And I've just noticed that he's written another book "Quitting America" ---
evidently he has moved to St. Kitts --

Quitting America
The Departure of a Black Man from His Native Land
Randall Robinson is quitting America, and this book charts his journey from the most powerful nation on earth to the tiny tropical island where his wife was born. His search for a more peaceful and hospitable place grew out of the disappointment and increasing sense of abandonment he felt in the land of his own birth—an America that has sapped the creative energies of his race and "transfigured humanity."

From within a culture as different from America as black is from white, Robinson is able to share why he needs to escape the racism he has fought all his life. Yet America is never far from his mind. The current state of political and socioeconomic affairs and why our leadership falls short of our expectations continue to inform his writing.



Obviously, there's a plan to keep brutal, ignorant people in government and to move out
as many intelligent people as possible --- !!!

[Raskolnik]

91. What is "economic justice" for slavery and Manifest Destiny?

Are you volunteering to go back to the land of your ancestors?

[Swamp Rat]

146. What a strange question.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

94. I love that photo, Swamp Rat

[greyl]

100. Could you please check the definition of "Manifest Destiny"?

I don't think you meant to use that term.

[Swamp Rat]

147. dictionary.com

Help yourself.

http://www.reference.com/search?q=Manifest%20Destiny

[greyl]

158. You really meant to say that? Very sad. nt

[Swamp Rat]

161. Pictures for non-readers:

[donheld]

176. Swamprat, you need to put together an album

You've got so many amazing things. It be wonderful to see a bunch of them in one place.

[greyl]

193. I think I see the problem. You aren't for Manifest Destiny, you are

for reparations for Manifest Destiny? That would be a whole different string of wampum altogether.

[dogday]

163. I love that picture...

I am of Cherokee decent and I love that picture... Thanks for posting..

[psychmommy]

186. swampy that pic is so cool i had to "borrow it" thanks.

[RepublicanElephant]

19. keep the money and use it for SERIOUS affirmative actions programs,

such college scholarships and/or job-training/apprenticeship programs.

and most importantly, PROPER-FUNDING of inner-city public schools and child health.

[pnwmom]

24. Affirmative action programs are a form of reparation, IMHO, since

they are meant to address problems in society that have their roots in our history of slavery.

[Breeze54]

149. Affirmative Action wasn't just about AA's... women also were included. n/t

[pnwmom]

171. No, but women have also been treated as legal chattel and

denied civil rights.

[defendandprotect]

29. Actually, Affirmative Action was a compromise vs class action lawsuits which

were quite costly for corporations, etal ---

So this was CHEAPER than having to actually deal with the great wrong done to women and
people of color, Jews for whome there were QUOTAS . . . !!

By the way, there are still QUOTAS for whites and males --- to advance them!

Anyway, this is also why the efforts are still underway to ensure that no one has the right to sue for anything that has ever happened any more --- !!! "tort reform" --

[Jed Dilligan]

25. Yes

It should take the form of community-building programs, scholarships, and welfare for all those in need, though--not individual financial settlements.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Yes, if nothing more to force muricans to recognize the horrors

by the way... we should also be ready to pay war reparations to both Iraq and though a little late, Vietnam

Only way the US will learn there are consequences

[jaysunb]

30. Why, Bill ??

:shrug:

[Two Americas]

31. strong and unqualified support

I am in favor of a complete return of all wealth stolen from the people under various guises, and I support strong public regulations be put in place to prevent it from continuing to happen. The descendants of slaves and indigenous people come first.

[Virginia Dare]

48. How are you going to do it though?..

I mean return of the wealth?

[Two Americas]

85. there is no shortage or scarcity of methods

First, I would not be doing it, we would be doing it. That would require a consensus and a will to do it, and to generate and develop that consensus and will requires advocacy and discussion. So how *I* would do this, my role, is to advocate for it and to encourage discussion about it.

How would we do it? Right now, most of the wealth that we all generate through our labor - the source of all wealth - goes to pay for fabulously extravagant lives for the very few, about 1% of the population. Rather than paying out to support that, we need to pay out to support the other 99%. This means setting up mechanisms for retaining and returning wealth generated by the 99% back to the 99%, and closing down the avenues by which the few skim and expropriate the fruits of our labor. The appropriate mechanism for this is the government - that is the only real purpose of government and politics. That was the strongly held opinion of Lincoln, FDR, Robert Kennedy and Dr. King, and I agree with them.

The heart and soul of right wing politics is that the 99% should work for the 1%. The heart and soul of left wing politics is that the wealth generated by the workers should be retained by the workers. Asking how "we are going to pay for it" denies and ignores the fact that the wealth is there and continues to be generated, that it is already being paid to someone, that it is already supporting something.

Sure there is a "shortage" of money and "we can't afford" various things - if we accept as a given that most of the wealth is to be retained by a very small percentage of the population, and we cannot challenge or even acknowledge that.

[Raskolnik]

99. I don't think you actually said how you/we would do it.

Speaking in broad terms about economic justice is wonderful, but the devil is in the details when it comes to reparations.

Who writes the checks? Do we tax everyone in the nation equally, or do we exempt certain people? Do we levy a heavier tax on certain groups with a more direct connection to slavery?

Who gets the checks? Is there a sliding scale for the percentage of slave ancestry that can be proven? Should we limit the payment to descendants of African slaves? What about Irish and Chinese indentured laborers?

How the hell do you plan on compensating Native Americans? Short of every non-native person picking up and leaving the continent, there just isn't any way to make real reparations for that group.

If you don't have answers to these questions, I don't see how you can even begin to discuss whether reparations are appropriate.

[Two Americas]

104. I did answer

I answered your question thoughtfully and comprehensively. You don't like my answer, because it doesn't give you a way to reel in the hook you tried to bait. That is because I reject the slanted context that you are trying to covertly enforce on the discussion - as revealed by your subsequent "leave the continent" argument.

What on earth does "people leaving the continent" have to do with anything?

Why do we assume that reparations is a matter of people "getting checks?"

You are arguing a right wing line here when you set up a dichotomy of some who will be harmed and some who will get handouts, hinting that this would be unfair, and challenging me to prove to you that it would be fair.

[Raskolnik]

108. No, you really didn't

You spoke broad generalities about economic disparity. You didn't address any specifics.

[Two Americas]

112. huh?

This is a question of "economic disparity." That is what I spoke about.

You will need to be much more open and honest here if you expect any more of an answer. It is not clear what your question (or assertion) is.

We would need to agree to definitions of terms, to have a shred understanding of what the problem is, before we could debate "specifics," would we not? The specifics would, of course, as is always the case with public policy, be a matter of laws and regulations - as necessary and appropriate to achieve the desired social goals. If you reject the desired social goal, or do not see government as an appropriate mechanism for achieving social goals, then we should debate those and there is not much sense in me offering up anything more "specific." Otherwise, we hardly could know what we are talking about here.

[Raskolnik]

115. You said "there is no shortage or scarcity of methods" for reparations

but offered no specifics. I pointed out that the devil is in the details when it comes to the issue of reparations.

Please explain what method of reparations you feel would be appropriate.

[Two Americas]

122. I have answered you

We cannot have a conversation if we can not agree on definitions and the terms of the debate. I am more than willing to discuss this for hours, and have much to say. It is a two way street, and you are not stepping up here. Come on out of your hidey hole, and we can discuss this.

I have answered you - it would take regulations, and a mechanism for transferring wealth. It would take government action - as effective and necessary. If you are opposed to the return of wealth under any circumstances - as the right wingers are - or if you are opposed to using government for effecting social justice - as the right wingers are - then you would of course reject any specifics, wouldn't you?

You have not answered my questions.

We can't know what would work or be most effective - mostly because we need to overcome attitudes such as yours, and nothing can happen in politics without public consensus.

Were you opposed to reparations to the descendants of victims of the Holocaust? Apartheid? If you are opposed to all reparations under all circumstances, then obviously any "specific" I offer will merely be used by you as an opportunity for diverting and distracting the conversation.

But it is not at all clear what you are arguing or asking. Let's agree on what reparations are, and the need for them. Then we can discuss specifics. Otherwise I see your questioning as merely a debate tactic to discredit the concept of reparations, and/or the need for them in this case.

Do you approve of reparations under any circumstances? Do you see a need for them in this specific instance? If your answer to those is "no" then we are not really talking about "specifics," are we?

[Raskolnik]

124. You're not *saying* anything.

You're spending all your energy and hundreds of words avoiding the topic of how you would make reparations work.

Please feel free to provide a definition of reparations and provide specific method of implementation. If you can't/won't do that yourself, you're just going in circles.

[Two Americas]

130. ROFL

I am saying a lot more than you are.

I am not going to serve you up any soft balls, and I am sure that is frustrating for you.

Let me illustrate the absurdity of your reasoning by using an example.

What if the question here had been "should we deliver clean drinking water to the public, yes or no?" and your response was "how are you going to do THAT specifically?"

Obviously, it would depend, wouldn't it? In some cases it would require treatment plants, in others reservoirs, in others new pipes and culverts. In *all* cases it would take a consensus that this was what we wanted to do, and in all cases it would require sacrifice and trade offs and a public commitment, wouldn't it?

Now, if I said "culverts" you could say "too expensive" and if I said reservoirs" you could say "that would negatively impact people living there" and if I said "treatment plants" you could say "too difficult." See how absurd that game would be? Your true position, in that case, were you honest, would be that you were opposed to getting clean drinking water to the public under any circumstances and were just playing games with your demands for "specific" solutions.

So, my specific plan is to expose the arguments being made by people such as you for what they are, so that the public can decide this issue in the absence of being confused by misleading and disingenuous arguments, come to a consensus on the issue, and then do what ever was practical and effective to best achieve the goal. Fair enough?

You, it would seem, are opposed to reparations under all circumstances. Why not have the guts to say that and then to defend it instead of playing games?

[Raskolnik]

133. Nothing in that post resembles specifics.

I've spent half a dozen posts trying to ferret out something other than platitudes and generalities. I don't feel like continuing this discussion if you won't have the courtesy to address my specific questions.

[Two Americas]

140. that is fine

I don't seek out or enjoy wading though this stuff, but I do feel compelled to respond and I put much effort into it. Not for you, but for the benefit of other members who are reading this.

If you are out of gas, that is OK with me.

I reject your question about "specifics." I think it is dishonest and misleading. I may continue posting about that for the sake of clarity for all of us. You can respond or not, and it won't make much of a difference that I can see. Should you choose to come out of your safe shell and honestly express your view on this, that would be valuable and instructive, I think, and we can continue the discussion.

[bread_and_roses]

184. Right On, Two Americas!

Beautiful job exposing conventional, accepted (and inherently Right Wing*) framing and its' utter inadequacy to address any of the issues we face. It's the same mentality that has people obsessed with the ring tone on their cell phone, or the image on their mastercard while they are being bound, gagged, and robbed blind.

*edit to add "RW" in the sense of buying into the Capitalist, profiteering world-view.

[Raskolnik]

92. Where do you live?

Are you planning on leaving the continent to "return of all wealth stolen from the people under various guises?"

[Two Americas]

98. not following you

I have a notion as to what your point might be here, but you are not being very clear.

Could you be a little more clear and forthcoming, and I would be happy to answer your real question or entertain and consider your actual point.

I think the very fact that people feel the need to be so obscure and oblique in their arguments about this subject is telling. If you have something to say, say it.

[Raskolnik]

102. You said that you are "in favor of a complete return of all wealth..."

"...stolen from the people under various guises."

I asked where you live because if you live in North America, it seems like the only way to have a "complete return of all wealth stolen from the people under various guises" would be for you to pack up and leave the continent. Are you willing to to that?

[Two Americas]

109. yes, that is what I said

How does me personally "leaving the continent" return any wealth to anyone? This doesn't make any sense to me.

[Raskolnik]

101. self-delete

*posted in wrong place*

[1]

32. well hell yes...

as long as i get reps for all the evil doing that was done to mine as well.

mine got fucked with. let's go back and do an entire accounting of all evil ever perpetrated on mankind through the entire course of human history. were mine ever slaves? hell yes!

do i deserve some reps? hell yes!

i want and deserve my money too.

i am in total agreement with this concept. let's do it. let the accounting begin...

[doc03]

34. I voted no, Where would the money come from? The taxpayers

of course and African Americans pay taxes too. The USA is broke now, there is no way we could compensate every group we have screwed-over the last few hundred years.

[flashl]

36. When did slavery end exactly?

[ThomWV]

37. January 1, 1863 - and not a single slave alive on that date is still living today

Nor are his or her children, nor are his or her grandchildren.

[flashl]

41. American Myth. Did this entire society transform the day after to make accomodations?

Did society suddenly open up jobs that paid fair wages, made available places to stay, or offer food for freed slaves the day after?

Or, are 'we' suppose to believe the separate but equal BS happen automatically?

[WildEyedLiberal]

77. So is it "slavery" reparations, or inequality reparations?

If we're going to be paying out inequality reparations, then you also have to reimburse the descendents of Chinese, Irish, and Italian immigrants who were greeted with signs such as "Irish need not apply" or "No WOPs needed," and who were often forced into filthy crowded tenement housing as corporate slave laborers.

[flashl]

111. My point is, there was no defining moment or time when institutional slavery ended. nt

[Hobarticus]

138. Excellent points, all.

That's some serious food for thought, there.

[Runcible Spoon]

179. a quick truth bite you just said....

reparations are about recognizing how entrenched the economic andc social ramifications of slavery are in our institutions, and the privilege STILL enjoyed, the disparity still suffered. I'm not for tracking down ancestors and distributing wealth to individuals, but an honest historical invesitagation of modern business and power; redistribute wealth into poverty regions in the forms of sweeping public intitiatives for health, education, and historical awareness.

[treestar]

191. Then it's not for slavery, but for inequality that resulted, and

other racial groups could have similar claims.

The problem is the injustice - the people who would be paying didn't do anything to deserve having to pay - it would just rile up resentment. Whites are still a majority, and though they may benefit from having white skin, it is in a proportionate way, so that it's not exact. There are a few AAs more economically successful than some whites.

[beezlebum]

43. are you sure about that?

it's possible for grandchildren to still be alive, and even children. i'm sure there aren't many but it's beside the point anyway. that it was only a few generations ago, and that there are plenty alive who suffered and continue to suffer in the aftermath of slavery makes whether there are direct decedents around today completely irrelevant.

further, many a corporate fortune was built per the labor of slaves and underpaid workers post-slavery.

this exactly what i meant when i said yuckhead had no intention of "debating" anything. this is a very complex topic and deserves more tactful means of even bringing it up let alone "discussing" it.

[ThomWV]

58. Yep

Look, I have two black grand children, they would get the checks - but they certainly do not deserve a check.

If a person was born on the date of the proclaimation, 1863, and they were 25 years old (presumably late in life for an ex-slave in the late 1800's) when they had their first child it would have been born in 1888. Let that child present a grandchild 25 years after that and its still 1913, so the grandchild would now be 95, considerably above the life expectancy for a black person born in the United States in the 1920's. I'd be perfectly willing to bet that no such person lives today.

[beezlebum]

63. it's irrelevant anyway

[BigDaddy44]

79. I'm 44

My grandfather was born in 1876. Trust me, grandchildren of slaves are alive today.

[Virginia Dare]

49. I think Douglas Wilder (former Gov of Virginia)

claims to be a grandchild of former slaves.

[jeffrey_X]

134. Maybe you can expand on what happened when reconstruction fell apart.

Or tell that to the thousands of african americans who were thrown in jail for crimes they didn't commit and then were forced to do labor for the state. That is still slavery in my book. Not chattel slavery, but still slavery any way you slice it.

[NOLALady]

164. The sharecropper was slavery's child.

Jim Crow was its GrandChild.

[BlooInBloo]

39. Aaah.... Nothing like the #1 white unity question to get my morning started - thanks!

[marmar]

45. This same poster did an affirmative action thread yesterday.....

.... There seems to be a theme going with him.

[BlooInBloo]

46. Gotta love white unity.

[Virginia Dare]

50. We don't even have Democratic unity..

much less white unity.

[BlooInBloo]

51. Don't bother trying to lie to me. There might be no question that receives more white unity...

... than this one.

Maybe "Are you racist?" might get a smidge higher.

[Runcible Spoon]

180. "Maybe "Are you racist?" might get a smidge higher"

:spray: :rofl: OMG ain't that then truth! Thanks for the laugh! :wave:

[Raskolnik]

95. Can you think of any feasible method of computing and/or providing reparations?

I'm just curious if you have an answer to the #1 white unity question beyond insinuation.

[Virginia Dare]

52. My ancestors....

They arrived in Virginia in the early 1600's stole land from the native peoples and held humans in bondage.

I can do nothing to change the past, but I try to make personal reparations by the way I live my life. I've worked most of my adult life on issues of social justice. Hopefully any little difference I've made matters.

I just don't think there's any viable way for monetary restitutions to be made at this point unfortunately. If anybody out there has a viable plan, I'm listening. I haven't heard or seen any yet.

[kevinbgoode]

53. I think we could solve the problem by requiring conservative straight white males

spend the next...oh, 50 years or so as the lowest social class. . .and see how long it takes for them to learn their lesson. As it is, they are the quickest minority in this country to whine about their own imagined victimization, constantly attempt to revise history to make it look like their victimization of others was for "their own good," the primary authors of the myth that God and Jesus was a straight white conservative man rightfully designed dominion over others...

One wonders how they would react if, for example, we'd manufacture "scientific" studies which pointed out how the size of their head justifies claims that they are intellectually inferior, or revised the Bible to claim that their naturally aggressive tendancies to subjugate others according to skin color, gender, and sexual orientation a symptom of innate insecurity based on acknowledged inferiority. . .

[AP]

54. The unaddressed misallocation of wealth as a result of slavery is a major economic problem.

The injustice and inequality it causes is no less deserving of correction than the millions of successful lawsuits you see come out of civil courts every day in America.

Nobody would question the necessity of correcting, say, Enron stealing money from California electric utility customers.

I don't know why people have such a hard time understanding why the same principles don't apply to slavery, and that people don't see the social and economic advantages for everyone in correcting this.

[BlooInBloo]

57. Not for white folks, it's not. As you can clearly see in this thread. WHITE UNITY!!!!

[ismnotwasm]

199. I like your answer

I voted yes, having a smidgen of understanding of a historical time-line that makes the idea at least reparations perfectly legal, perfectly reasonable, and like you state, ultimately beneficial.

There are, of course perfectly reasonable objections as well, but the The "My ancestors didn't do it" "I can't change the past" answers are not it.

[-..__...]

55. I think gun owners should receive reperations...

for all the injustices and restrictive gun control laws thrust upon them by the gun-grabbers and nanny state types.

Settlement in the form of ammunition, reloading supplies or high capacity magazines is acceptable in lieu of cash.

[dysfunctional press]

56. opposed.

shit happens. :shrug:

[devilgrrl]

59. Racial arsonist

That's what we have here.

:popcorn:

[kwassa]

62. I agree completely.

This guy is transparent.

[mikekohr]

60. The First People Enslaved Were Native Americans

How do we right a wrong 500 years years old? How do you assign responsibility today? How can we right the enslavement of our fellow Humans? How do we restore the lives lost, the cultures destroyed, the dispossession and near extermination of a People?

Abraham Lincoln noted that the stain of slavery was erased with the blood of 600,000 American lives. White, Black, and Native American gave the ultimate sacrifice in the Civil war, on both sides of the struggle.

Let us face our past. Admit our sins. And move forward. To quote Eli Tail, a spiritual leader from the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, "What has happened has happened and can not be changed. Let us find a way to move forward, together."

http://www.brotherhooddays.com

mike kohr

[Ordr]

61. Profoundly opposed.

[bean fidhleir]

64. I'm the first from my family born in the US, but I benefit from slavery

I benefit from it because its legacy continues to linger on. It's much better today than it was 50 years ago, but it's nowhere near a level playing field. Anybody who wants to take the time, and who has 2 or more active brain-cells, can make up a list of slavery's current effects. It's not rocket science.

What should reparations be? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure cash would be a bad idea because it would be a get-out-of-jail-free card for White people, the same kind of thing that corporations do when they get caught poisoning their employees: they set up a fund for compensation...and then get to walk away from all future problems.

Maybe the right thing to do is declare that Black folk who earn less than median income, or who have been hassled for Living While Black, pay no income tax that year.

[Orsino]

65. I'd be in favor of our government's actually daring to study the impact and legacy of slavery...

...and to make some sort of reparations. Acknowledging the existence of lingering problems is a first step, though, and until that happens it's ludicrous even to begin talking about cutting checks.

[kwassa]

66. Many who are opposed to reparations have no historical knowledge of Jim Crow

or much else about slavery. Jim Crow refers to the repressive laws and practices that disenfranchised blacks from their newly-won rights in the period directly after the Civil War and kept them disenfranchised right up to the 1960s civil rights marches.

These laws kept blacks from voting, enforced segregation in jobs and housing, prevented blacks from getting mortgage assistance from the US government, excluded blacks from colleges and universities, thereby preventing blacks from both getting good educations and from acquiring personal wealth.

We still have the effects of that legacy today.

The IMPACT of four hundred years of slavery and discrimination are STILL WITH US. Anyone who thinks it ended with the end of slavery, or that the descendants were also not affected by discriminatory practices that followed need to study the history of their own country. It wasn't only the slaves who were robbed of their futures; their descendants were, too.

edit to add:
There are many LIVING African-Americans who personally suffered the lack of opportunity presented under segregation. They were also prevented from passing on any inherited wealth or opportunity to their own children, like middle-class and higher income whites can, because they never had the opportunity to join the middle-class.

[qanda]

81. Either the effects are still with us today

Or these people believe that blacks are born innately and inherently inferior to white people. So, I want the people voting against reparations to tell me which one it is.

[Zynx]

118. I am very well versed in the history, but I still oppose the idea.

I am willing to accept that with all other things being approximately equal that a black man from the inner-city should get a job over me as I am white and generally I have greater opportunity. I do not support slavery reparations at all, however. There are plenty of other instances of groups horribly wronged. For example, Harvard University for many years kept the proportion of Jewish students in its student body to 2%. Do you want them to pay reparations to 20 years worth of Jewish students who were unable to obtain an education at Harvard? The same goes for their treatment of Irish, Polish, and Italian immigrants. My problem is where do we draw the lines?

[JCMach1]

68. I see all of these reparations types of bills, ultimately, as insulting

You can't put a price tag on the damage that was done... no way, no how.

[Freedom Train]

69. 100th vote against here

It's stupid on so many levels.

[robcon]

71. is there "race guilt?"

I am white, but I have nothing to do with slavery. My great-grandparents came to the U.S. in 1870's from Ireland to New York. What connection whatsoever do we have, either as a race, or as individuals, to slavery?

Even if I were related to a slaveholder - why does the sin of the 'father' get visited on the 'son.'

[kwassa]

74. no, but there is collective responsibility, whether or not your ancestors were even here

As part of being an American is the need to rectify historical racial inequities that still persist today.

You get the benefit of having white skin in America. You and your American ancestors have the benefit of having access to jobs and success in America that blacks were restricted from.

[robcon]

150. What utter nonsense, kwassa.

I don't have any responsibility whatsoever for what was happened in America in 1300, 1500, 1700, 1900 or until I was born (or perhaps, until I started voting.)

Collective responsibility is just a fiction you'd like to be true. It's an artificial construct based on my European background... not on me. I have no responsibility for what others (of the same race!) have done.

[kwassa]

151. It isn't nonsense at all.

You don't CHOOSE to have responsibility, but are you a member of this society? Does being a member entail certain responsiblities? I think it does, if we are dedicated to the purpose of equality.

[treestar]

189. How do other races play into this?

What of the Asian-Americans? They shouldn't have to pay in, right?

[IndianaJones]

72. for. nt.

[uppityperson]

73. It depends, need more information.

Tell us more of what you mean billy since how we answer depends on what you are talking about. Repartions from whom, to whom?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

75. My thought exactly...

the poll is much too vague.

[qanda]

80. I'm for reparations, but I think it should be in the form of educational and mortgage grants

I also believe AAs should be able to access all genealogy databases for free.

[NOLALady]

167. Hey.

I agree 100% about free genealogy databases. They could also throw in free DNA tracing.

[blurp]

83. What about slave owners that were black?

So do the descendants of black slave owners pay the descendants of black slaves?

What happens if a person is descended from both? Is it a wash?

And moreover, how do we measure the damage that was done so that we might come to an appropriate dollar amount?

If we try to measure the damage by comparing the fate of those brought to North America with those left in Africa South America, or even to those sent to the Caribbean and South America , we wind up with the seemingly absurd conclusion that, far from requiring compensation, the descendants of slaves in the USA are the most well off in the world among peoples of African decent.

Those that suffered are long gone. Their descendants may not have it easy, but I don't think there's a better place on the planet they could be.

[Two Americas]

86. we are back in the 1850's

We are supposed to believe that the country has made dramatic progress on racial reconciliation, so much so that right here - among nominal Democrats!! - every discussion about racism features people saying they are "tired" of the discussion about racism.

Yet here we have someone arguing that slavery was a blessing.

[blurp]

88. Fanning the flames of hate and division

Their misery isn't your misery. And maybe you are blessed because they suffered.

Stop trying being so resentful and instead live like you appreciate their sacrifice.

[Two Americas]

97. assumptions

What are you talking about? I am not resentful. How would I "live like I appreciate their sacrifice" and who is "they?"

You are not making any sense here.

[qanda]

87. Pat Buchanan, is that you?

[blurp]

90. Let's see what a former slave thought

In "Up From Slavery," former slave Booker T. Washington wrote,

I have long since ceased to cherish any spirit of bitterness against the Southern white people on account of the enslavement of my race. No one section of our country was wholly responsible for its introduction... Having once got its tentacles fastened on to the economic and social life of the Republic, it was no easy matter for the country to relieve itself of the institution. Then, when we rid ourselves of prejudice, or racial feeling, and look facts in the face, we must acknowledge that, notwithstanding the cruelty and moral wrong of slavery, the ten million Negroes inhabiting this country, who themselves or whose ancestors went through the school of American slavery, are in a stronger and more hopeful condition, materially, intellectually, morally, and religiously, than is true of an equal number of black people in any other portion of the globe. ...This I say, not to justify slavery -- on the other hand, I condemn it as an institution, as we all know that in America it was established for selfish and financial reasons, and not from a missionary motive -- but to call attention to a fact, and to show how Providence so often uses men and institutions to accomplish a purpose. When persons ask me in these days how, in the midst of what sometimes seem hopelessly discouraging conditions, I can have such faith in the future of my race in this country, I remind them of the wilderness through which and out of which, a good Providence has already led us.

[Two Americas]

96. that doesn't support your point

Not sure why you are posting that here. It does not support your point that slavery was a blessing.

[Egalitariat]

168. Slavery was a blessing

I don't see where he made that assertion, but your allegation (even considering its gleaming falsity) makes for a damning accusation -- as is usually the case with false charges of racist tendencies. The Booker T. Washington quote is a powerful one, whether you want to admit it or not.

Slavery was one of the worst mass crimes ever perpetrated on a people, but black people in America are better off than black people anywhere else in the world. And that's a fact.

Reparations would involve taking money from people who didn't own slaves and paying it to people who weren't slaves. That crime would be as egregious as the one that was taken against any member of the black race.

[Karenina]

169. Have you read ANY of Two Americas responses on this thread?

:shrug:

[Egalitariat]

173. I've read all of them. Two Americas is a dreamer.

It would be interesting if his/her dreams came true. But they won't.

[Two Americas]

182. thank you

I will take that as a compliment, one that I don't really deserve. I strive to be a dreamer.

And so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal."

I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

I have a dream today!

I have a dream that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of "interposition" and "nullification" -- one day right there in Alabama little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers.

I have a dream today!

I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, and every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight; "and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed and all flesh shall see it together."²

This is our hope, and this is the faith that I go back to the South with.

With this faith, we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith, we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith, we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day.

And this will be the day -- this will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with new meaning:

My country 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing.

Land where my fathers died, land of the Pilgrim's pride,

From every mountainside, let freedom ring!

And if America is to be a great nation, this must become true.

And so let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire.

Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York.

Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania.

Let freedom ring from the snow-capped Rockies of Colorado.

Let freedom ring from the curvaceous slopes of California.

But not only that:

Let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia.

Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee.

Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill of Mississippi.

From every mountainside, let freedom ring.

And when this happens, when we allow freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual:

Free at last! Free at last!

Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!

[kwassa]

174. Slavery is a blessing? what racist idiocy.

Why is Booker's statement powerful? Because you agree with it?

"Slavery was one of the worst mass crimes ever perpetrated on a people, but black people in America are better off than black people anywhere else in the world. And that's a fact."

How do you know that? How do you know that black Americans have it better than black people anywhere else in the world? I like to see you substantiate this bizarre assertion. What proof?

and if slavery is a great crime, what is it's blessing to those slaves???????

and this topper:

"Reparations would involve taking money from people who didn't own slaves and paying it to people who weren't slaves. That crime would be as egregious as the one that was taken against any member of the black race."

I see. Taking money from someone is as big a crime as whipping, beating, kidnapping, selling, working to death, raping, murdering.

You have both a sense of proportion and a great grasp of logic.

[Two Americas]

181. we can't know that

We cannot know that in the absence of slavery, black people would be worse off. The Washington quote is a black man talking to black people, and is talking about achievements of black people here. It is not an apology for or defense of slavery.

Colonialism has impacted Africa horribly, and the same nations that profited from that profited from slavery. Your comparison is therefore misleading and unsupportable. The same forces that enslaved people here oppressed and exploited people there. Neither slavery, nor white America, gets credit for what black people have fought for here, yet that is what your interpretation of the Washington quote strongly implies.

It would also be true to say that white people here did better than white people back in villages in Ireland or Italy, too. So what? Does that mean that bigotry against Italian and Irish immigrants was justified because they were better off here than their compatriots were back there?

See the problem with your logic?

[jeffrey_X]

135. You mean the ones...

who still would have been forced to live in segregated neighborhoods and eat at separate lunch counters, 70 years after slavery supposedly ended?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

89. Anyone who has been enslaved themselves deserves reparations.

People who have some distant ancestors who were slaves don't.

[calico1]

200. I agree. And people who have distant ancestors

who were slave owners should not be held responsible for slavery. Both the victims and the perpetrators are long dead. We cannot punish the dead slave owners nor make reparations to the dead victims.

[arrested_president]

103. Look At All The "Good' White People

who smile in our faces yet vote against our interests - and, have the audacity to want to debate their position

but, SWEAR they aren't racist as they spend their money with slaves on it and live on Indian lands

[fascisthunter]

106. I'm White and I FInd Your Response to be...

accurate....

[NOLALady]

166. They also vote against their own interests

if there's a chance their vote could help others.

[cleveramerican]

105. Tens of thousands of civil war deaths constitute adequate reparations.

99% white guys.

[Zynx]

110. I once made that argument and was called a complete racist.

I thought it was a fair argument. The worst war in American history was fought over the issue of whether or not states could keep legal slavery at its root. The vast majority of those who died were whites, a huge number of them from the states that had slaves, many from slave owning families.

[noiretextatique]

117. thanks a lot, white people

for freeing the slaves, then enslaving them with jim crow for another 100 years.
THANKS!!!!!!!!!!

[Zynx]

119. Is the entirety of "white America" truly responsible for that?

I must have forgotten to go to my local White Person's Association meeting for the past 21 years of my life(I'm 21).

[noiretextatique]

114. black people died in that war too

beforw gracious white people granted them the full rights of citizenship.

[Zynx]

120. His point is that a steep price was paid.

There is no denying that.

[cleveramerican]

132. I low-balled it

I should have said HUNDREDS of thousands.

[jeffrey_X]

137. Tell that to the African American babies who are still born in the inner city ghettos today

You know the ghettos that are the direct result of jim crow and segregation. And that Jim Crow and segregation were direct results of slavery.

It's all part of a vicious cycle that has never ended.

[Judi Lynn]

107. Racist Democrats became Republicans during the Civil Rights era.

Anyone harboring racist grudges, resentments purporting to be a Democrat now should recognize those guys left a long time ago, and go seek their company. Join the DixieCratic Underground, why the #### not?

Leave D.U. for people who have always thought far, far differently from you.

[noiretextatique]

113. if only african americans were polled

the numbers would be a lot different. racism kept reparations from being paid to slaves, racism kept the descendants of slaves in second class status for 100 years after slavery. america will never get beyond racism until it stops denying it.

[Zynx]

121. Are you saying that I have absolutely no say in this subject because I am white?

[Two Americas]

126. well, that would be fair

Blacks had no say - because they were Black - in the accumulation of the wealth in question - who got it, who controlled it, and who benefits from it to this day.

[Zynx]

131. Most whites have not even benefitted from that money. Not even close to it.

[Two Americas]

139. ok

Not sure what the significance of that is. Who said that "most whites" would be harmed by reparations? Most whites would benefit.

[Zynx]

142. Okay, who pays the reparations?

I've always wondered this. Is it all whites, descendants of slave owners only, or all non-African Americans?

[Two Americas]

148. no one

No one "pays." That is a free market right wing libertarian concept. In a healthy society we all get back more than we put in. No one suffers or loses from social justice. We all prosper more. It is the expropriated wealth, the skimmed wealth, the hoarded wealth, taken out of circulation and placed out of reach of the people who generated that wealth that causes scarcity and want.

No one need "pay" and no one need be harmed. The wealth currently hoarded by those who have no need for it is placed back into circulation, that is all. As that is done, the ancestors of those who were most exploited are first in line for relief and justice - just as until now the ancestors of those who did the exploiting have been first in line to have advantages the rest of us do not have, who started the race ahead of the rest of us, solely through the unearned good fortune of birth.

This is simple justice, compassion, and humanity, and is not only the essence of any politics that could even remotely be characterized as left wing or liberal, but it is also the heart and soul of building a humane and just society.

It won't cost us anything, it won't hurt anyone, and everyone will win.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

116. How did I know you would be the one to post this?

I guess somebody has to carry water for Herman.

[MrSlayer]

123. If you can get the slaveowners to pay for it then go right ahead.

Being that my family wasn't even here during slavery I don't see why I should have to pay for any reparations. The time for reparation was in the 1860's.

[kwassa]

152. How about reparations for continued discrimination?

[NOLALady]

165. High Five!

[galledgoblin]

125. for, but not in the usual one paycheck to one slave descendent sense

instead I'd like to see funds and programs established that will end the underground slave trade and address racial inequalities domestically.

[gollygee]

127. yes, in the form of low interest housing loans (like VA loans) and

education grants.

I heard a presentation about VA loans post WWII, and according to the presenter, the loans were not given out fairly - African Americans got almost none, regardless of being in the service. That disparity has had a huge impact on our society. White veterans got VA loans and ended up buying a house and having it paid for by the time they died, and then they could borrow against the equity to pay for college for their kids, and their kids would inherit the house. A lot of poor white families came out of poverty thanks to VA loans, and African Americans were pretty much left out of the loop. A similar program could help them catch up to the rest of us, hopefully. And that would just help with that particular disparity. It would be a good start though IMO.

And African Americans have been shamefully discriminated against in education. Particularly pre-desegregation. Education grants might help that disparity as well.

[cascadiance]

128. I think bills should be focused on the *effects* of slavery not just "buying people off"...

... which is what reparations really are.

Part of the problem is that the real instigators of slavery and those who really suffered from it are no longer alive now. If we try to make some sort of "retribution" program for every past crime where the real criminals and victims are no longer alive, the only people you are going to make happy are lawyers as these sorts of things will never stop and won't be very productive in fixing the real problems of today.

I DO support affirmative action (though I'm open to reform of it, not just *tearing it down* like some people want to do), since it does try to address the effects of slavery and lack of womens' rights, etc. of the past that affect people's lives today. It perhaps can be done better and in hopefully a non-discriminatory way, but I do think something is needed there, and until someone can come up with a better alternative, it should be kept going.

The question you have to ask is what happens in 20 years when the next generation ALSO wants reparations for slavery and complains that they weren't part of the earlier gravy train for this. It will never stop.

I'm ALL for trying to allow people have no statute of limitations on suing those who in the past wronged them directly and stuff like that. There you can apply more legal scrutiny to assure that the stipulations aren't overly loose to avoid descendants, etc. being unfairly penalized or for that matter rewarded inequitably compared to others similarly affected.

Some African Americans who recently migrated here were descendants of those in Africa who actually facilitated the slave trade then. Should they benefit from such a program when arguably their ancestors were as much a part of the problem as opposed to the victims of the problem.

Since "corporate persons" though arguably live forever as long as our courts support that judicial activist concept, arguably there shouldn't be statutes of limitations on suing them. They initially GOT "corporate personhood" from legislation that was supposed to protect the rights of former slaves but was misapplied to corporations. If they want to claim they aren't persons as a way of getting out of responsibility for this, then perhaps we can use this as a means not so much a way of getting reparations back, but as a means of tearing down the notion of "corporate personhood". I'd fully support an effort to do that. I think that will ultimately help us out a lot more (even those that might feel owed reparations) a lot more.

[and-justice-for-all]

129. Im against....

Why? because throughout history there has always been a class of people who were forced into bondage by another. Are we to go back, all the way back and give reperations to ALL those who have ever been in bondage?

In this day an age we can not think of having our own slaves, but through out history there has been slavery and are we to pay not only the black community but also the other decendants of slavery?.

[Faygo Kid]

136. The Civil War was reparations for slavery. It's the last 140 years we need to atone for.

And I think we can do it together with reasonable affirmative action, understanding and acknowledgement.

"Reparations" is a loaded term. Especially in this anniversary week.

[undercutter2006]

141. 78% opposed

and that's on a liberal forum

reparations initiative = phail

[BlooInBloo]

143. Yup - this is close to the best possible question to get white unity on.

[margotb822]

144. Money will only make race relations worse

We need to take that money and spend it on educating people and broadening minds.

[undercutter2006]

145. china, japan, russia, cambodia, and several african nations would have to pay the most

if we did global reparations for everything that went wrong in the world 50 years ago

the way they killed millions of local populations was pretty horrible

but there is no way to keep tabs is there?

[Mad_Dem_X]

153. Money can't change the past. nt

[BlueIris]

155. For. And how. nt

[durutti]

156. For -- reparations are often misunderstood.

To my knowledge, no one has seriously proposed that every Black American receive a check in the mail in order to compensate for slavery. This would be impractical and arguably impossible, not to mention somewhat unjust -- after all, many people who would now be called "white" also have some African American ancestry.

What I would support -- and what *has* been proposed -- is a series of programs specifically addressing problems disproportionately affecting the African American community, but which would not be open exclusively to African Americans; and funded by a tax on companies that historically benefited from slavery.

[BlooInBloo]

172. The fine print doesn't matter to white folks. They're against anything that re-evens the field....

... or even simply apologizes for unevening it in the first place.

[L. Coyote]

170. Are you for reparations for stealing America?

[Moloch]

175. Against.

No. I don't have 40 acres and a mule to give to someone else.

[Eric Condon]

177. I think there should be a third option of "in theory."

There would have to be massive genealogical research into anyone seeking eligibility for them to prove that they are indeed descended from slaves. That would be a logistical nightmare and I really have no idea how it could all be achieved nationwide, but at its core, I support the idea of reparations.

What people don't understand is that reparations are not just "giving money to black people." So much of this country's wealth was made off the backs of slaves, and it's a fact that the descendants of these slaves are entitled to an inheritance from the money the slaves DESERVED (as workers) to have been paid, but were not. We, as a country, have long fought to disown our history of slavery, and if we can never right the moral wrongs America committed with regards to slavery, then we should at least be able to retroactively right the economic wrongs that were inherent to the situation as well.

The money could and should come straight out of the pockets of the descendants of slave owners. And if that means making a sizable dent in the bank accounts of some rich people, then guess what?

:nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

[psychmommy]

178. this is one of those divisive issues

it is brought up to stir emotions in white folks. there was no problems w/jews suing corps that benefited from the holocaust and it should be the same for african americans. but, that is not the way it is discussed. corp america has changed the discussion to make the common man think that blacks are coming for their wallets. not true. the idea was to go for the corporations not the government or everyday joe. many businesses profited from slavery not just farmers. if you can't discuss the situation on the facts don't bring it up trying to inflame whites against blacks, take that crap elsewhere.

[cemaphonic]

183. But with the Holocaust situation, there were specifics

As in, specific and identifiable property stolen from specific and identifiable people to the direct benefit of other specific and identifiable people. It's not as if there was a general levy on the population of all the former Axis powers that was disbursed to all surviving Jews, which seems to be analogous to what is usually meant by slavery reparations.

I agree that fixing the problems that we have now would be a more productive use of resources and energy in dealing with the legacy of slavery in this country.

[psychmommy]

185. in reparations there are specifics but you choose not to acknowledge this.

specific corps benefited from slavery. your argument is that we are too late because there are no living slaves. well had they requested their 40 acres and a mule as promised they would have been lynched and the postcard w/the caption uppity negroes requesting 40 acres and a mule would have been a bestseller. stop using reparations as a wedge issue. this is freeper code for don't vote for the black guy. back to freeperland with this divisive bullcrap.

[MadHound]

187. It isn't a matter of for or against, it is a matter of practicality.

Who is eligible for them? Given the race crossing that has gone on over the past hundred and fifty years, it is estimated that ten percent of "white" Americans have African blood in their lineage. Do you pay them off? Do you pay mixed race people only half? How do you determine whose ancestors were present for slavery, on either side?

Besides, don't you think that reparations would stir up resentment and anger? Would that really be the right thing to bring into racial relations? Besides, who will pay? Individuals, corporations, the government?

Sorry, but there are too many questions and not enough answers to make this practicable.

[treestar]

188. Against it because it is impractical

There are so many bi-racial people to account for. It would require Nuremburg type laws to prove you are African, or even descended from a slave. Plus we have African immigrants post-slavery. Take Obama, he shouldn't recover because he's no descended from slaves.

Then there is the question of whites whose ancestors immigrated post-slavery, or were abolitionists, or were Northerners.

Just basing it on race alone wouldn't be fair to the Native Americans, Hispanic-Americans, Asian Americans, and any other group that didn't have to do with slavery.

[bamacrat]

192. There should be but not a money amount, even though I voted no.

Heres why. I am 1/8 Native American, which qualifies me for free college tuition if I can prove my bloodline and affiliation with the Cherokee tribe to which my blood belongs. Alas, it is quite difficult to do. I feel that if a black person can trace their ancestry to slaves directly they should get help like free college, free health care, but just giving money is a hollow gesture that will never happen. My idea is better.

[NaturalHigh]

194. Completely against reparations of any kind.

[noiretextatique]

196. i support reparations for jim crow

which still affects living african americans. federal and state entities legalized discrimination against african-americans and others. the remnants of jim crow still manifest today in the form of discriminatory drug laws, for example. the government committed the crimes...the government should pay for its crimes...period.

[Horse with no Name]

201. I am for reparations

in the form of education, financial, housing, and healthcare.
Even though WE did not actually commit these crimes against humanity, we are collectively responsible.
You ARE aware that slaves were bred like animals to create stronger and bigger people to work longer hours?
Why exactly do you think that Black people are prone to heart disease and other health issues?
Those problems will not just go away because neither you nor I owned slaves.
Those are NOW genetic issues that will ALWAYS be there.