Morality. It's not about sex.

[lightningandsnow]

Alright, so I'm kind of pissed off lately.

It seems that most of the time people talk about "Morality", they're talking about sex, or more specifically, sex acts they don't like or are uncomfortable with other people doing. You know, premartial sex, gay sex, polyamory, BDSM, selling sex, buying sex, furries, whatever. Things that when done safely, consensually, and honestly, aren't hurting anyone.

My moral philosophy goes like this: Don't be mean. Not even the golden rule, since other people might like having things done unto them that other people may not enjoy. Just don't be mean. Don't hurt people. With sex, as long as it's safe, honest, and consenual, it's fine. I have no idea when what people do in their own bedrooms (or wherever) became the definition of immorality. War? Hunger? Violence? Rape? That's fucking immoral. Two (or more) consenting adults doing whatever sexually? How is that morally wrong?

I'm going to quote Pierre Trudeau on this one and say that "The state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation". And neither do we. So if someone wants to have sex with someone of the same gender, have a three-way, spank someone, lose their virginity before marriage, or even wear a friggin' bunny costume, who the hell are we to tell them what they're doing is icky or immoral or wrong?

[Triana]

1. 100% agreed. All the flap about sex, sexuality, abortion, etc. is...

...a DISTRACTION from the real moral issues we face:

Poverty
Climate Change
Human Rights Abuses

etc.

And it's a DELIBERATE distraction.

[patrice]

2. It's also not about killing unknown others for " our Freedom". nt

[hobbit709]

3. The morality police mindset is

that someone, somewhere, is having a good time and they must put a stop to it. In a history class I took many years ago the professor told us that when the Puritans took over England, one of the things they banned was the then popular sport of bear-baitng. They did this not because of the cruelty to the animals involved-they could care less about that- but because the spectators derived enjoyment from it.

[BlooInBloo]

4. I prefer sex, personally... But to each her own.

[Gman]

5. This issue, abortion, gay marriage and others are all about Get Out The Vote

for the GOP. It's all a smoke screen. They need the fundies to go vote so they can do crap like when Jack Abramoff was paid to stir up the fundies on the moral issue of gambling. He did it to lobby against a gambling initiative in a state next door to another state that already had legalized gambling. The state next door wanted to protect the gambling revenues of their state. What better way to stop gambling in a state than to stir up the fundies?

Nationally, it's all about crap like the FAA ignoring planes that haven't been inspected so the airlines can make huge profits. IT's all about $3+ gas for the oil companies. It's all about the PAC's for right wing nuts. So, as far as the "conservative" politicians go, it's all about get out the vote so they can make themselves rich.

[lightningandsnow]

19. I agree.

Very well said.

[seabeyond]

6. i have been saying that about golden rule forever, lol. i agree

i agree with your whole post

the easiest way for me too is just dont hurt anyone

[Echo In Light]

7. "...a friggin' bunny costume?"

K&R ;-)

[aikoaiko]

8. legally, we've won most of those battles and all they have left is the moralizing

Which doesn't mean shit to me. I really don't care what people think as long as they don't have any power to enforce their views.

[Kitty Herder]

29. The problem is that they want to roll back the legal successes we've had in keeping

the government out of our bedrooms and bodies.

[Freedomofspeech]

9. Excellent post....

I totally agree with you!

[elizfeelinggreat]

10. amen

War? Hunger? Violence? Rape? That's fucking immoral.

My feelings exactly. I'd like to stick this over every stupid vapid bumper sticker I see.

[SpiralHawk]

11. "Furries Uber Alles. Smirk." - Commander AWOL

[SidDithers]

20. Bush loves the bunnies...

Sid

[Political Heretic]

12. The only moral principle we need is "Do no harm."

[insleeforprez]

16. A complicating factor...

What if you're harming yourself? Is that immoral? (i.e. drinking, unprotected sex, etc.)

What if by harming yourself, you're causing ill to your society? (i.e. medical costs, pollution, etc.)

What then?

[seabeyond]

18. you are exactly right. the do no harm is not as easy as one might first think

in so many much deeper ways. or hurting self, others

[Political Heretic]

25. I didn't mean to imply that it was simple. But its the place to start discussion imo.

[seabeyond]

26. but then one has to self reflect

and takes honesty

and i dont think that will happen, lol. but i agree with you. there is so much more in it than people are trying to make it. things we are saying are more in line to protect our vision than being honest. or how we see things.

[Orsino]

13. Morality: it's about power.

People love judging and oppressing others, and America's lingering puritanism is a convenient excuse for all the hate.

[lightningandsnow]

14. Indeed.

It's all about "People are having fun in ways I don't like! Call the morality police!"

[colinmom71]

22. Well, you had it partly right with your subject line...

In that morality, at it's base, is about power. After that, ya kinda just crashed and burned.

It's all about power and how we *use* the power we possess amongst the people in our lives. It's like the difference between "using one's best judgement" versus "being judgemental". Using one's best judgement means that a person is examining an issue and deciding what is the best and just choice. Judgementalism however is based upon reactionist thinking about what is the righteous and complementary action to take. The former is focused on what is best for all parties involved and the latter is about an ego based projected image of being perceived as morally right.

Both involve invoking one's personal sense of power within their own life and the lives of those around them. But the morally just person uses good judgement to make the truly right choice within their segment of society without manipulating power for personal gain, be that monetary gain, egotistical perception, etc. True morality is not about self interest. In fact, it is often in conflict with self driven motivations...

[IronLionZion]

23. Thank you for saying people, and not just "those other people in that other party"

because there are some VERY self-righteous and judgmental individuals right here on DU. Some of the most self-described "progressive and open-minded" liberals most definitely are NEITHER.

[brandon47]

15. "Your moral philospohy"

exactly, morals are personal, among families and/or religious communities or even individuals.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

17. I'm totally right there with ya...

Sex is a form of personal expression. America is sooooo backwards in this...!

My moral philosophy: "To each his own! I am not your God and therefore will not judge you."

[zorahopkins]

21. I Quibble With Your Morality

I have a problem with your moral philosophy: "Don't be mean".

First, it's negative. It says not to be or do something.

I prefer something like this: "Do Good. Do the Right Thing."

If you see someone who is hungry, feed him or her. (Do Good)

If you see injustice, do what you can to correct it. (Do the right thing).

It's about much, much more than simply not being mean.

It's about doing good.

[FiveGoodMen]

24. All comes from various "Good Books"

You were born evil. You must be tortured forever. Even wearing blended fabrics is an abomination to gawd. Etc, Etc, Et-fuckin-cetera.

Sell people on the notion that morality is arbitrarily defined and unquestionable and this is what you get.

There may well be underpinnings to all this built into our brains -- animals enforce conformity, too -- but it's religion that keeps all this crap at the forefront of our activities and policies.

[Kitty Herder]

27. By the thinking of some, * is a perfectly moral person. (As far as we know.)

To them, morality = sexual mores. And they honestly can't concieveof another meaning of the word.

I was raised Mormon. I remember my first "personal worthiness" interview with my bishop when I was twelve. He asked the standard question that bishops always use as code to mean: "You haven't been up to any hanky panky, have you?" That question being: "Are you morally clean?"

As a twelve-year-old, I didn't really understand the question. I guess I hadn't learned the code yet. I remember thinking, "I'm a good person, don't lie, cheat, steal or hurt people, so I must be 'morally clean'" So I answered in the affirmative.

I wasn't the only one who didn't understand. My cousin who is the same age as I am, had an interview the same day and whispered to me afterwards, "What does morally clean mean?" So then we asked her mom who let us in on the code, leaving both of us embarrassed and flustered. I imagine this learning process happens to most Mormon kids.

I don't know why Mormons feel it's appropriate to ask twelve-year-olds about their sex lives. If a child that age isn't "morally clean," they're usually a victim. I also don't know why Mormon parents think it's o.k. to send their twelve-year-old girls alone into a locked, sound-proof room with a man who is an authority figure over them.

The point is, at least with Mormons, and probably with other strict Christians, moral = sexually pure. I think that degrades the meaning of the word. With that kind of thinking, you can be abusive to your spouse and children, but as long as you're sexually pure, you're a moral person. A President can send American soldiers to die and kill in an illegal, immoral war of occupation, but as long as he doesn't cheat on his wife (that we know about), he's a moral person.

[lightningandsnow]

30. They ask 12-year-olds if they're "Morally clean"?

Wow. Just...wow.

[Kitty Herder]

31. They do indeed. Unless they've changed their policies in the many, many years

since I was twelve, which is possible.

Edited to add: I guess not that many. I'm 31. So it's not like this happened forty years ago.

[Quantess]

28. I would even give Senator David Vitter a pass, for his diaper fetish.

Hey, if he gets off by having someone change his diapers, it's none of my business.