School Bill Would Force Parents To Volunteer

[Dr. Strange]

CLEVELAND -- It's no secret that schools need volunteers in order to do more for students, but one proposed law in Indiana would make it a requirement for parents to volunteer at their children's school.

Parent Darlene Boyd has been volunteering at her grandchildren's school for six years. If the state legislature passes House Bill 519, she'll have a lot of company, Cleveland station WEWS reports.

The bill would require all parents to volunteer 13 hours each school year, either in the lunchroom, chaperoning field trips, or wherever the district needs help.

...

The bill's incentive is a $100 fine for parents who don't fulfill the requirement.

http://www.koco.com/education/15775391/detail.html

Apart from being a bad idea, would this even be constitutional?

[Kittycat]

1. I don't see why it's a bad idea to suggest parent participation, but...

I don't see how they can mandate it. People have to work.

[Dr. Strange]

9. That's one of the problems I see.

The government would have to force businesses to allow their workers the time off.

[JerseygirlCT]

32. Invite it for sure

And provide structure for doing so. (How many days have I gone in to find way too many other parents bumping elbows all for one small job? And then I'm sure there are times when help is desperately needed).

But mandates? No way.

[no_hypocrisy]

2. Isn't compulsory/mandated volunteering an oxymoron?

[Winterblues]

44. Ever been in the military?

:shrug:

[terrell9584]

3. that would probably kill the public schools in that state

as many parents would suddenly find that it was better to pay a little extra to send their kids to private school then have to spend their time volunteering.

Poorer parents would probably end up paying the fine and the only real winner would be whoever is collecting that revenue.

[Jed Dilligan]

6. A private school that costs 100 bucks a year?

I think most parents would just eat the fine.

[NashVegas]

33. Poor Parents Are the Ones Who Most Desperately Need to Get Involved

In their at-risk childrens' educations.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

35. and often they are clueless as to what they can do

Instead of having them volunteer at school, I'd rather they take the time to take their kids to the public library, make sure they go to bed at a decent hour, and are on a regular schedule. For some folks, their living situation makes even these things impossible.

[NashVegas]

36. So True

I was raised by a single parent who was treading water to stay above the poverty line. As it is with so many lower income people, she didn't know what she didn't know.

[Bobbie47]

4. I volunteer

in my daughter school each year and they run a background check on all the parents. This may get expensive.

The background check also keeps certain parents from being able to volunteer. (added)

[Selatius]

5. So it's going to be like Jury Duty? When you get picked, you go?

Also, it's not voluntary if it's mandatory.

[NJmaverick]

7. Why is it a bad idea?

This sounds like a great idea. The government is providing their children with a free education, the LEAST they can do is put in a few hours of volunteer work.

[Dr. Strange]

10. Why just parents, then?

If all of society benefits from this, then shouldn't EVERYONE put in these hours? Just like EVERYONE pays taxes for education.

[NJmaverick]

15. It's their kids attending the school

You know the average cost to educate a child, is $12K - $20K a year. I figure if someone has kids the least they can do is put in a few extra hours to help improve the education of all the children. If someone decides not to have kids, then why would they be obliged to put in the extra time? Isn't their tax dollars enough?

[Dr. Strange]

18. Why should they have to put in their tax dollars, then?

If it's not their kids?

I figure if someone has kids the least they can do is put in a few extra hours to help improve the education of all the children.

I figure if someone got a free education in this country, the least they can do is put in a few extra hours to help improve the education of all the children. So let's extend this to everyone.

[NJmaverick]

22. At first glance I thought that was a pretty good idea

Then I thought about it and realized that everyone is already paying money to educate other people's children. So to do that AND make them volunteer seems like a bit much.

[niyad]

12. FREE? paid for by TAXES, remember? it isn't FREE--do you

have any idea how much that FREE education costs?

and what do you recommend for parents who are working two and sometimes three jobs?

[NJmaverick]

16. It costs the tax payers any where from 12 - 20 thousand $$$

Per student. Now I think for what society is providing their children, they least the parents can do is give a little something back.

[shraby]

13. You should add that the education is mandated

by the government. It's also not a "free" education. We pay for it dearly with our taxes, then the parents are getting stiffed for books etc. It's a bad idea because of the cost of background checks, scheduling, etc. That will also be paid for with our taxes and it's not a necessary cost. I don't begrudge good schools and good instructors for the children..I DO begrudge professional sized football fields, basketball courts Olympic sized swimming pools and other perks for the sports. This is high school for goodness sakes, they are there to get an education to prepare them for real life, the sports are to teach them teamwork and to keep ALL who want to participate involved in the activities...but that too has dropped along the side and only those who are good at the sport and go to whatever sports camp in the summer are welcome. This is wrong.

[NJmaverick]

21. Home schooling is also an option for parents

So while parents are mandated to educate their children, they are not required to use the public schools (they are also free to use private or religious based schools).

The background check costs, could be an issue though. I would think that would have to be explored (the cost vs benefit).

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

14. For one thing, there are parents who can't volunteer

What about a parent with a medical condition that makes it hard for them to leave their house? What about parents working two or three jobs just to make ends meet? What about the parent who is dirty, talks loudly and sets a horrible example for their child? I've worked in schools where one or both parents were on probation for everything from drug possession to assault. You want to have them forced to help out in a school?

[NJmaverick]

17. Not every volunteer job requires working with the children

or even leaveing the house

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

25. Have you ever taught school in a big city ghetto?

Where you had to have armed escorts to and from the building, where you had duck and cover drills to be ready when the cops took out the crack houses down the block? Ever confiscate plastic bags of Kool Aid from kids on the playground who were playing that they were selling cocaine? Ever present a Christmas program where the audience was so loud and milling around so much no one could hear the kids? Ever taught a class of fourth graders where one kid assaulted another with a baseball bat after school, nearly killing him, and yet was allowed to go back into the classroom the next day, and whose parents said what he did was perfectly fine?

Hey, I was lucky. I didn't get raped or murdered while I taught there--unlike two other of my co-workers.

I don't see anyone from districts like where I taught wanting to come to volunteer, and many whom I wouldn't want doing anything for the class--even "take home" projects would be suspect--how could we be sure they weren't contaminated with drugs or booby trapped?

[NJmaverick]

26. What do your questions have to do with the topic at hand?

Still this would seem to be a good arguement for forced parental participation. It would certainly be better to get those parents more involved with their children's education. Plus it would allow teachers to see and report unfit parents and maybe provide some extremely beneficial intervention in the child's life.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rocktivity]

40. What if they work during school hours?

And I wouldn't call the education free--the school employees are being paid by the taxes the parents pay.

:headbang:
rocknation

[davsand]

8. Will that bill allow for paid time off work to volunteer?

We actually DO spend time in our daughter's school volunteering, but our work schedules allow for it without it taking away from our income. I can't imagine any law that requires it without making it possible to do and not hurt that family's finances. Imagine it--"Yeah, I can't feed my kids this week because I have to go do my mandated volunteer time." I'm sure THAT will result in some positive interactions...

They need to make it easier to volunteer, not mandatory.


Laura

[hedgehog]

11. Years ago, at my first parents' meeting for a co-op preschool,

someone told me to look around because I'd be seeing the same people until my kid graduated high school. It's true. I don't just see them at school, either. I see the same people joining Kiwanis, the Lions, Community Band, Kid's Soccer, Little League, etc . No one is involved with everything, but by and large some people are community volunteers and some people aren't. It's just human nature.

[BlooInBloo]

19. Hahaha! Another go-around at what DUers consider to be SLAVERY! woot!

[demgurl]

20. We need this at our school.

The poor teachers are so overworked and no matter how much you try to get volunteers they just will not come. Our school tells us that it is mandatory to volunteer so many hours a year but there are no consequences if you do not. The sad thing is that our school is VERY flexible. I do copies for my sons' teachers Saturday mornings while one of them is in the drama club. The school has many weekends and after school activities where parents can volunteer on their time off. The librarian has said that she has activities parents can do for just fifteen minutes while parents are waiting for their children right before school lets out. If you want to volunteer from home the teachers have lots of things you can do from there. (I have done that as well)

There have been studies done that indicate children do much better the more involved parents are at the school. We go to school about ten months out of the year so it is not much to ask that an hour each month that parents volunteer their time. Not all will be able to but if most schools are as flexible as ours then there should be no excuse for 80% of the parents.

[Bobbie47]

24. Have you

tried a email tree. Send out a list of jobs that need to be done, (copying, filing or whatever)that parents could volunteer for. Let the parents pick the time and jobs that they will do. Each event can have its own email chain for volunteers.


I'm on a list when it comes to me with EVENT, DATES AND TIME then I
pick whats good for me.

[demgurl]

30. No, we have not tried that yet but I will forward your idea.

It is frustrating because people start lining up to pick up their children around 2/2:15. That is about an hour before the kids get out. Some sit in their car and some go to a picnic bench and socialize. By about 3PM there are more than 50 cars lined up (we do not have buses) to pick up the children but none of those people volunteer.

Every year the school holds a breakfast to thank the volunteers who help out. The staff invites those who are known to help out. This year there were about 11 people at the breakfast and the poor head of the PTE was all by herself. Even though the breakfast was thrown to thank us, a few of us ended up staying to help clean up!

[NeedleCast]

23. Sounds like the Military

I remember a discussion like that with my first Sergeant when I was stationed in Korea shortly afte 9/11.

Hey Specialist King, do you want to volonteer to go to Afghanistan?

Ummmmm No, not really.

Go pack your stuff, you're volonteering anyway.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

27. Many parents would be worse than useless in a classroom.

This strikes me as a spectacularly silly law.

[cynatnite]

28. Good intentions, but I think it's a rotten idea...

Would that be both parents at 13 hours a year each or do they get to split it? What about divorced parents? What about a parent's job? Will they compensate for the missed work? Some parents can't afford to take the time off...even if it's only an hour here and there.

How would a parent act around children at being forced to volunteer? Do we want badly acting parents around kids because they're forced?

[depakid]

29. "The bill's incentive"

An incentive is a carrot not a stick....

Of course, most journalists- and especially local media wouldn't know that- or much of anything else about public policy.

[Hekate]

31. Will the bill force employers to give paid time off?! #@!$%^

Another brilliant idea for cash-strapped school districts by politicians too out of touch with the real world to realize that BOTH parents are in the work force these days, just trying to keep afloat. It's been that way for over 20 years already.

My gods, the more I think about this the more pissed off I become.

Parents need workplace flexibility to balance family needs -- and it's not in their power to get it without outside help (such as legislative mandates).

Kids need smaller class sizes, and it's completely beyond their power to achieve that without adult help.

Teachers need smaller class sizes, and it's beyond their power to achieve that without legislators sending tax money their way for that purpose.

Riiiiiight. Let's pass a bill requiring that parents volunteer their abundant free time after putting in a full day's work -- especially the ones working two jobs. :sarcasm:

Hekate

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

34. Absolutely

no one seems to be taking a sensible approach to anything any more. I'd hate to have forced "volunteers" in my classroom. I remember one year I taught when a "helpful" parent decided the best thing she could do was to come visit--and bring a purse full of mice she'd caught in her house. She came in and let them loose before I got done greeting her. She was filthy and appeared to have a very limited vocabulary. She thought she was doing good! I can imagine ticked off parents forced to volunteer doing something like this or worse.

[Hekate]

37. Smaller class sizes and a bigger budget would help....

My entire life I have been reading about how smaller class size is THE key to better student outcomes. Large classes when I was a child were blamed on us being the Baby Boom. Then when numbers of students declined, schools actually shut down in order to save money -- thus retaining high pupil-teacher ratios.

My entire life I have heard politicians yammer about how much they are devoted to educating the next generation. Well, money talks and I don't hear anything but saving money on the backs of students and teachers. Proven programs have been cut to the bone because some people think music, art, and phys ed for the masses are some kind of frill. Nutritious lunches have been replaced with garbage, and schools are compelled to make money by selling soft drinks to kids.

Mothers used to be the backbone of school volunteerism, but mothers are in the workforce trying to keep their families from sliding even further downhill economically.

When my daughter was in kindergarten I had to put her in an after school program that was basically geared to at-risk kids in my then-neighborhood. Sometimes they forgot to pick her up -- kindergarteners were let out of school at half-days just as if this was still 1953. When I had to leave work early on behalf of my kid I would race out there cursing the fact that as a secretary I didn't have the clout to leave work without pissing off my boss -- and then I ran into a mom picking up her kid who was a medical doctor and had the exact same problem with her bosses -- it just pissed them off to have her gone from the clinic and threatened her status as a professional with a future.

What gets me is how much it falls on women. Women teachers, women parents. We're supposed to make this work. We're supposed to spin straw into gold.

Btw, the mouse mommy sounds like she had some sort of mental illness, actually. What chaos....

Hekate

[mondo joe]

38. Dreadful. We've always volunteered at the kids' schools, but because we could and

because we wanted to.

There are parents who really can't, though they'd like to.

I think there's also a constitutional problem.

[rocktivity]

41. Forcing people to work for no pay IS a constitutional problem

also known as slavery.

:headbang:
rocknation

[mondo joe]

42. Forcing them to work even with pay isn't kosher. NT

[The Straight Story]

39. A stupid idea

and i cannot believe anyone would support it.