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maxpower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 05:06 PM
Original message
We should have listened to these men
We should learn from these men, instead we ignored their wisdom. When will we learn. Feel free to pass along, and add any you might find pertinent.

Abraham Lincoln: We may congratulate ourselves that this cruel war is nearing its end. It has cost a vast amount of treasure and blood... It has indeed been a trying hour for the Republic; but I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war. God grant that my suspicions may prove groundless.

George Washington: In offering to you, my countrymen, these counsels of an old and affectionate friend, I dare not hope they will make the strong and lasting impression I could wish; that they will control the usual current of the passions, or prevent our nation from running the course, which has hitherto marked the destiny of nations. But, if I may even flatter myself, that they may be productive of some partial benefit, some occasional good; that they may now and then recur to moderate the fury of party spirit, to warn against the mischiefs of foreign intrigue, to guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism; this hope will be a full recompense for the solicitude for your welfare, by which they have been dictated.

Ben Franklin: Those who would give up ESSENTIAL LIBERTY to purchase a little TEMPORARY SAFETY, deserve neither LIBERTY nor SAFETY.

Theodore Roosevelt: The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else.

Dwight Eisenhower: In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid.
All of us have heard this term 'preventative war' since the earliest days of Hitler. I recall that is about the first time I heard it. In this day and time... I don't believe there is such a thing; and, frankly, I wouldn't even listen to anyone seriously that came in and talked about such a thing.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Didn't Ben Franklin say "A penny saved is a penny earned", forgetting he used slaves to make it?
Didn't he sleep around with prostitutes too? Now we know where he pitched his pennies...
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maxpower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. No one is perfect
Edited on Thu Apr-03-08 05:22 PM by maxpower
We shouldn't ignore what he said and what he did for America based on that fact. I believe he was an early abolitionist as he had quaker roots



Edited for clarification
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Very true too
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Did Franklin own slaves?
I thought he was a northerner through and through.
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maxpower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. You are correct sir
I edited my response to add that. Thanks
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. ...
http://www.pbs.org/benfranklin/l3_citizen_abolitionist.html

Slavery was an accepted way of life in early colonial America. Without the work of slaves and indentured servants, the growing economy of the colonies would have been limited. Almost all of our country's founding fathers owned slaves at one time or another, including Benjamin Franklin.

Franklin owned two slaves, George and King, who worked as personal servants, and his newspaper, the Pennsylvania Gazette, commonly ran notices involving the sale or purchase of slaves and contracts for indentured laborers.

In addition to slaves from Africa, the colonies depended upon other forms of cheap labor. Many people of European descent paid their way to the colonies by signing letters of indenture. Indentured servants and workers were basically slaves who were legally bound to their masters for years. In many ways, indentured servants were of less worth than actual slaves, because as indentured laborers they couldn't be sold to another owner.


Article has more.
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Any prosperous person in those times, like any prosperous person today
reaps the benefits of slavery or near-slavery in creating profits. It doesn't negate any right thing they say or do--the world is just a black hole if you think that.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. Oh, okay. Thanks for the guilt, fellow white person.
And I'm not prosperous either.
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Huh?
What about my statement made you feel guilty or believe I'm white?
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Sorry, then. I take it back.
Edited on Fri Apr-04-08 01:11 AM by quantessd
Edit to add: Sorry for offending! I think I confused you with someone else. :hi:
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maxpower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I stand corrected
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AdHocSolver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. We have effective slavery today in America. Ben Franklin was not being hypocritical since...
he was a competent and successful person of the society in which he lived.

Today, we see private corporations doing billions of dollars worth of business using prison labor at below minimum wage, we see sweatshops using illegal aliens, and many Americans doing dangerous and debilitating work for starvation wages.

One should determine the correctness of what the person said based on its own merit, not on our view of their conformance to our social context.
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maxpower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I couldn't agree more
He was a product of his era, but his accomplishments far outweigh the negatives. Thomas Jefferson owned slaves, was he not a great man?
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. I know about the chicks and his 'air baths' but I was not aware he
owned slaves. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. You can read about it here:
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. thank you. knowledge is power. :-D
I also read he belonged to a hellfire club outside of philadelphia. What a guy. :)
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. To his credit, Franklin joined a Pennsylvania abolitionist group
in 1785. So there is a good chance that he didn't forget that slaves helped him make those pennies.

http://www.pbs.org/benfranklin/l3_citizen_abolitionist.html
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maxpower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
9. Thank you for the K&R's
This is my first trip to the greatest page. I am humbled.
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maxpower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
18. Read what Lincoln said
He was an inexperienced one term in the house of representatives at the time. Kinda turned out pretty good for us they overlooked the experience issue. To bad the Republicans can't understand what "their" hero said.
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otherlander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
19. Dwight Eisenhower can eat shit and die.
36 years of civil war and genocidal dictatorship because of him.
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