A note to the "newbies"..

[kentuck]

It is so obvious to many people that have been here for a while that you are naive about DU in a lot of ways. It was not created as a vehicle to hate other Democrats. It was created in 2001 after the election of 2000 and many folks were very concerned about what was happening with our country. We felt we had lost something very valuable. It was stolen from us. There were unknown and dark times ahead of us. We went "underground" as a way for people of like minds to have a strategy to fight whatever might transpire from that crime of 2000. We did not join DU to badmouth every other Democrat or liberals that we did not like - as a general rule. It is important you understand that when we vehemently disagree with those other Democrats, we do not normally hate them.

[The Straight Story]

1. you and hillary are level 18 psycho ass masters

:rofl:

Just kidding, had a newbie moment!

[cbayer]

2. That's a good message.

The board is so full of hate today that I can barely look at it.

Not sure why you would address this only to newbies.

At the very top of the greatest page at this minute is "I fuckin' hate her" posted by a 5 year member. (77 recs)

Then there's "There is a good reason to hate her" by a member who has been here over a year (19 recs)

It disgusts me.

[The Straight Story]

3. Good point

Primary season, like some other topics, bring out the worst in people.

Emotions may help get a point across, but to win an argument you need a tad more than that :)

[meegbear]

4. I sent an alert on the first one ...

ridiculous that it's on the main page. Way to go DU!!

[JohnnyLib2]

12. I'll second that. Not a site I can recommend to other Dems right now.

;(

[Horse with no Name]

35. I'm embarrassed that I have actually recommended it to candidates

as a vehicle to get their message across to to other Democrats.

[MonkeyFunk]

15. me, too

I don't know why they've decided not to enforce the rules.

[cbayer]

16. I sent a message to them asking them to post the "new rules"

I can hardly find an OP today that complies with DU rules. If they've changed, I think they should just let us know. I know they are overwhelmed by the amount of absolute stupidity here, but I don't understand why they don't communicate what is and is not going to tolerated at this point.

Freakin' cesspool.

[texshelters]

76. I really don't understand the hate

and I'm a "newbie". Thanks for coming to our defense.

Tex Shelters

[Journeyman]

5. I certainly didn't come here to hate my own. . .

though the liberal use of such perverted "reason" has certainly become my reason for staying away from here.

This board grows increasingly irrelevant with each passing hour. "Oh, we'll come together when a candidate's selected," say the community's Pollyannas. "That's right. We did in 2004," echo the board's Panglosses. And all I do is shake my head and wonder at what Earthly good such shriveled souls could possibly aspire to, once they've bled the heart out of any sense of community.

[bbgrunt]

36. well said. thank you. shriveled souls, indeed.

[Pharlo]

86. "Oh, we'll come together when a candidate's selected,"

No kidding. I like Hillary Clinton. I have nothing against Obama, I just think Hillary Clinton is the better candidate. I intend voting for Barack Obama if he gets the nomination, but I will no longer campaign for him in the general election. The reason? I can't stand the behavior of some of his supporters. I flat out absolutely refuse to work with these assholes. THAT is what their behavior is doing for his campaign. I don't blame him for their behavior, but I won't volunteer any of my time to put up with these people.

And, if what is being reported that approximately 60% of established democrats support Hillary Clinton is accurate, and, if any others are beginning to feel as I do, that is a nice sized chunk of the 'traditional volunteer base' that is being put in jeopardy by the behavior of a small, rude, yet very VOCAL group.

I typically volunteer anywhere from 50 to 100 hours per Presidential GE. Not this time. Not if it's Obama. The reason? See above. I'll work on Congressional campaigns, local campaigns. But not Obama's.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[splat]

7. Janet, with 21 posts, maybe you should find the hate site you're really looking for

[tbyg52]

8. I hope you like the Supreme Court nominees you'll get with McCain.

Remember, they're for life....

Edited to add that I am an Obama supporter who will vote for the Democratic nominee.

[Dervill Crow]

9. And you're telling us this because . . . ? n/t

[walldude]

10. So you want more of this:

...good luck with that. And welcome to DU.

[Lochloosa]

18. I would like an answer to this post. Thanks.

Well

[walldude]

19. Well what? Which post are you talking about? I was responding to

the person who wouldn't vote for Hillary "no matter what". What is it you are looking for an answer to?

[Lochloosa]

21. I want a post from Janet Carter about your post.

It was perfect.

[walldude]

22. Oh... sorry

I'm confused. Time in GDP will do that to you...

[DesertRat]

24. Janet is no longer with us

Thanks Mods. :thumbsup:

[Radio_Lady]

27. Poor thing. We do have to be on the lookout for these types.

Meanwhile, we're watching Lindsay Lohan with the grandkids.

[cynatnite]

13. You're at the wrong place, then...

We support Democrats and this site will support the Dem nominee whether it's Obama or Hillary.

[cui bono]

14. Great. So what are you going to do when you don't have a right to vote anymore?

Cuz that's where we're headed if you let McCain become president. He doesn't stand for anything, he just wants to be president. Hell, he can't even remember what his positions are! He'll say and do anything "they" want him to if "they" let him be president. Sound familiar?

Grow up and bite the bullet and vote for whatever Dem is the nominee.

I fucking LOATHE Clinton right now, but if she somehow manages to wrangle the nomination I will vote for the Dem for president because I will be voting for the next Supreme Court nominee, I will be voting for our civil rights, you get the idea. So while it's highly unlikey the that nominee will be Clinton, stop being a whiner and think about what you are voting for. It's never been more important to get a Dem into the oval office.

[emilyg]

17. Get lost.

[malaise]

11. Good post

K & R

[isuba]

20. Thanks for the history, but...

Maybe, this post should be aimed at all members and not just "newbies". I'm new to DU but not new to message boards, and I must say that what I've seen on GD-P in the last few weeks is reprehensible. There are as many hateful posts from long time members as there are from newer members.

I've seen your OP's sentiment on just about every message board I frequent at one time or another. An influx of newer members happens for whatever reason and the board's older members become vitriolic toward the newer ones, starting a flame war between the two. Typically, the Mods step in and squelch the bad behavior before the board goes into meltdown, but that doesn't seem to happen quick or often enough to make a difference in the primaries forum, unfortunately.

I mentioned in one of my few posts there that civility and unity would be words we'd do well to remember in the coming weeks. I continue believe this and hope for it to happen.

[kentuck]

28. Just curious?

How did you find DU??

[isuba]

33. DailyKos

I think it was mentioned in one of the DKos' blog comments. I really got into message boards after Katrina, trying to keep in touch with friends who were displaced. Didn't have much need for them until then. Got hooked, I guess.

BTW, I was not trying to ridicule your post, as I did appreciate the DU background info. Just pointing out that newbs are not the only trouble makers and some older members made need a refresher.

[kentuck]

34. And neither was I accusing you of anything ??

I was just curious.

[isuba]

37. Of course not

I felt the need to clarify, intent is hard to read from across the interwebs.:shrug:

I wish this board had my favorite emoticon the :covri:

[NashVegas]

51. The Perpetual Newbie / Oldbie Fight - An Analogy

A group creates something from nothing. Builds a house from the ground up and decorates, develops a nice little community.

In comes two newbies; one acts like Uma Thurman in the Japanese sushi bar in Kill Bill - very sensitive to their hosts' surroundings and customs - and the other demands accommodation in the arrangement of the furniture to something more of their liking, and heads straight for the refrigerator without asking.

Which one do you think is going to inspire flame wars?

[Quantess]

72. Welcome to DU isuba!

:hi:

[davsand]

23. Every Primary here has been insane, but this one has been the most painful, I think.

There have been a few knock down drag outs on here--and I know I am not alone in remembering them. (Bet ya I could still start a pissing match between the Deaniacs and the Clarkies if I worked it.) The thing that really strikes me this time, however, is the level of outright anger that everyone is carrying. It is extreme, it is not limited to political newbies, and it is almost a pathology.

I have wondered why this is happening, and I honestly think it has a lot to do with how angry this entire country is right now--Dems especially. It isn't surprising to see it manifest here at a Dem website--but I do think it is a shock to a lot of people's system to realize just how far gone we all are. I honestly worry that it will turn after the Primary and it will then be an anti incumbent sweep--which would bode ill for Dems in all the Congressional races.

I am a lot ore worried abut that than I am about a few folks (on both sides) who are stamping their feet and vowing eternal vengeance. Hell, I see stupid partisan hacks all the time locally, I just hate the thought of this enormous national opportunity getting pissed away because the center could not hold.


Laura

[Quantess]

25. Just, everyone do yourself a favor and spare youself from GD-P forum.

And, on your options, change the setting so that GD-P threads are excluded from the Greatest page.

I think GD-P is an absurdly annoying cesspool, and a waste of time. DU is still pretty great if you can manage to avoid General Discussion-Primaries forum.

[swishyfeet]

59. You can exclude GD-P from your Greatest page?!?!

Holy fuck! Now someone tells me!

You better not be teasin...

[Quantess]

71. It's true!

Options: Preferences:

then about #13 down the list is something like "exclude GD-Primaries from the Greatest Page".

:hi: Welcome to DU, fellow Oregonian!

[tavalon]

61. See my current sig line

I stay the hell away from there because it's toxic, completely toxic.

[El Pinko]

26. Back then you could speculate about 9-11 on GD and not be banished to the dungeon...

...so a LOT of things have changed...


Hell, I just saw a pot by Skinner last night that called ALL 9-11 truth efforts "half-baked theories".


So I guess that means that the 9-11 commission's report was concise, thorough and truthful, nothing more to see, move along, move along....


PS - I sort of agree - to a point. I wouldn't rail against Biden for example during the final stretch in his run against a repug challenger, but if a real democrat was running against him, I wouldn't hesitate to mention the huge number of donations he's gotten from the credit card industry or the 6-figure retainer they gave his greenhorn son. Democrats who act like repugs, and democrats who act like crooks need to be exposed.

[Muttocracy]

29. you went off-topic from the OP but

compare contributions from the financial industry since 1989 (bearing in mind different career lengths):

Biden $3.7 million
http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/allsector.asp?CID=N00001669

Clinton $26.5 million
http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/allsector.asp?CID=N00000019

Obama $16.4 million
http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/allsector.asp?CID=N00009638

[El Pinko]

32. The proof is in the pudding, since Biden spearheaded the anti-consumer bankruptcy bill.

Clinton and Obama are running for president, of course they'll be showered with donations. Biden has not been a serious contender since 1988. And his record speaks for itself he is MBNA's waterboy in the Senate.

[Muttocracy]

38. It was a GOP bill that passed 74-25, and you're giving soundbites

http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?cs_id=V3480&can_id=53279
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3734869

[El Pinko]

43. So...he didn't support the MBNA-written piece of garbage legislation?

That's news to me.


And how does the fact that it was GOP-sponsored legislation (written by Biden's credit card company donors) make Biden's enthusiastic support for it excusable.

The fact that it passed so broadly is testament to the fact that half of elected democrats are corporate whores.

And I appreciate the link to that old thread, but I strongly disagree that we "needed bankruptcy reform". There are about a million things that we needed and still need a lot more. In a climate of falling wages and almost unli,mited corporate power, bankruptcy was one of the few ways that ordinary people had of getting an economic break. Unlike corporations, we don't get bailouts and golden parachutes when we get overwhelmed with debt.

That law did NOTHING to stop rampant usury, thuggish collections or predatory lending. The ONLY thing that was positive in it was raising the minimum payments on revolving balances, but that should have been accompanied by laws requiring that no credit card company issue a card to a cardholder with more than 25% of his annual income in outstanding revolving debt. At present, the card companies lend to people until they are at about 100% of annual income before cutting them off and jacking up their rates.

To hell with Hairplugs Biden for passing this piece of garbage that screws consumers.

[Muttocracy]

44. never said he didn't vote for it but "spearhead" is inaccurate. nt

[El Pinko]

45. He was a leading proponent of the bill.

(and I added a bit to my original comment there - please see.)

[Muttocracy]

46. you hate Biden and think namecalling is convincing

I don't like that type of discussion. You're not documenting your assertions, just yelling at me and making jokes about Biden's hair. Do you think he's reading this or something? Or that we should care about politicians' hair?

And you're wrong about the minimums being raised being a great thing - it devastated me personally because it coincided with unemployment. Which makes me doubt your analysis of the rest of it.

We see things differently and this is not productive.

[El Pinko]

47. I don't "hate" Biden, but I don't think he is a good democrat.

I think he's a corporate stooge, not to mention extremely vain - and he does have hairplugs.

Don't get me wrong - the raised minimums hurt me too. I went into default on all of my cards soon after - not as a direct result, but that was one of the straws that broke the camel's back, in addition to all of my rates being raised arbitrarily.


But if the minimums had been higher in the first place, my balances would not have risen as fast. Higher minimums would help a lot of people pay off their balances sooner and with much less interest, instead of something like 40 years.

Even ACORN supported the minimum increase aspect. It was painful for us, but it is better in the long-term for future borrowers.


My credit is screwed now. But I never lied about my income and they had access to my credit records. Why did the card companies keep offering me cards when I already had $15K in outstanding debt (not including student loans)?



Why did I continue to borrow? My wife had a business that never made it off the ground and we lived in a very expensive city. By the time I insisted on moving back to El Paso, it was too late to save my finances, but at least now we can live within our means.



Boy - now I REALLY went off-topic...

[Truth2Tell]

53. hmmmmmm

[El Pinko]

55. Well excuse the fuck outta me.

If you wanna be persnickety, this OP probably belongs in GDP anyway, since that's where all the Hillary-Obama rancor is.

I have no beef with either of them.

I don't see that democrat-bashing is all that widespread in GD - when it happens, it's usually either well-deserved, or it's some RW troll who's TS'ed in no time.

[Truth2Tell]

56. Take it easy.

:P Just teasin' ya man!

Not only that, I agree about Biden. :)

[El Pinko]

58. Sorry. I sound a lot more riled than I am.

I'm just a lot more lazy than most about using smileys, etc.

[Mind_your_head]

30. Good message......I think part of the problem is (and I'll speak for myself here)

is that I'm sooooooo angry at what has happened in our country/and in my name, etc. that I tend to lash out 'at my own "family" here' b/c it's uncomfortable/dangerous even to lash out among people who don't have the same basic knowledge/fact base that 'we' do.

I've considered publicly apologizing here on DU to those that I've unfairly lashed out upon, but for whatever reason I haven't 'done it'. SO, this is my public apology to DU members/lurkers ..... for times that I've been unfair, misunderstood you....you've misunderstood me.....I don't have the talent/skill to express myself properly (that's a BIG one).

I don't hate other democrats. I appreciate :mad: <------- (I kid, I kid) all of you who make me think :think:. Making another person 'think' is the best 'gift'.

Thank you, the many DU'ers who give their time/effort/emotion and give one of the greatest gifts of all....we all make each other think, really 'think'.

Peace,
M_Y_H

[bbgrunt]

39. it's really hard to keep your anger and disappointment

focused on finding community and resolve against the fascist forces out there when your own party keeps disappointing by not following through with impeachment hearings, with not holding back funding for this war, with hearings about sibel's information, and continual caving to corporate interests, etc. etc. It's just really hard not to lash out at those supposedly on the same side who help enable these betrayals---but without civility we might as well just shut up and submit because we become the thing we are fighting.

[Mind_your_head]

41. You keep/remember the 'good stuff' and throw the junk away.....

again, and again, and again.

Keep fighting the good fight. As difficult as it might SEEM. We really don't have any other choice, do we? :-)


The 'good' always wins, ALWAYS :-)

[Mind_your_head]

42. To add.....

'the good' always wins, but not without a FIGHT. (it seems 'god' loves a good rockem' sockem' fight....I don't understand this, but history seems to prove it out, right?)

[bbgrunt]

60. yes, the need by the god(s) for a good fight is strangely disconcerting

[RedCappedBandit]

31. Good post

This board has been going down hill for a while. I hope things return to normal at some point.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

40. Perfectly stated.

recommended

[orleans]

48. oh puhlease!

you act as if you've been here practically from day one!








(just kidding. i know you have:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=103933

[cleveramerican]

49. it has taken on a certain"Lord of the Flies" quality

But I'm not the least bit surprised.

[nichomachus]

50. I think the Hillary crowd introduced "hate"

I don't generally hate people just because I disagree with them.

Yes, I hate George Bush, but not because I disagree with him. I hate him because he has destroyed the country I grew up in.

However, if you look at the history of the discussions in this primaries, you'll find it was the Hillary supporters who introduced not hate itself, but the concept. Every time someone criticized Hillary -- often justifiably -- her supporters would start running around saying that the person "hated" Hillary. It got so that people criticized Hillary at their own peril. One criticism and they were a "hater." If you repeat that word often enough and tag enough people with it, then it becomes part of the vocabulary of the debate.

I don't hate Hillary. I don't even dislike her. I have some issues with some of her positions and some of her activities. And she has made some really boneheaded moves. Yet, I've been accused of being an Obama supporter (which I'm not) who hates Hillary (which I don't).

I generally don't internalize those sort of remarks, but others with a thinner skin might just say, "Yeah, sure, I hate her -- if you say so."

The Hillary supporters -- for whatever reason -- have lowered the tone of the discussion. A women I know, a die-hard Hillary fan, a lawyer and seemingly intelligent woman, came up to me the other day and expressed the concern that "the press is going to steal the nomination for Obama." What??? That is just so off-the-wall. She followed it with "How can someone vote for some character who just crawled out of a black hole somewhere." At that, I changed the subject -- pointedly. I refused even to be drawn into a discussion along those lines.

I have put friends on notice that all I want to hear are positive things about the candidate they support. I tell them that if they tell me negative things about the other candidate -- except to criticize public positions the other candidate has taken or actions during the primary campaign -- I will consider it a weakness in their candidate. I don't want to hear about someone's minister, their hairdo, what they did on their college vacation, what their sister's cousin's husband did in 1988, or anything like that.

[chixydix]

64. "crawled out of a black hole"...

Interesting turn of phrase.

[alarimer]

68. I don't think that's true at all.

the sexist, derogatory comments (and liberal use of the word bitch) has come mostly from Obama fans. The most hateful crap I have ever seen has been directed towards Clinton.

[Echo In Light]

52. Those who openly hate "conspiracy theorists" with a frothy zeal definitely contribute

To the ugly vibes...

[Maggie_May]

54. This what they want us to do!

I am long time member and I haven't posted in awhile or have read the DU because of what has gone on. I feel the same way it is was not created as a hate tool. I believe we can disagree but hate is a strong word and right now this is what the Repuks want us to do and you are letting them win. They want us to turn against each other they thrive on this. Please lets stick to the issues there is so much at stake and get ourselves back on track. We are fighting for a lot of the same things here. We will get a another 4 years of the same with McCain if we keep this up.

[hfojvt]

57. are you sure? Not even the DLC, blue dogs or Bush dogs?

Enablers and craven cavers to Bush have been blasted as long as I can remember, no matter what party they claim to belong to. Especially after our victory in 2006 until primary season heated up Pelosi and Reid were villified here constantly, and often to loud applause. To the point where I made this journal entry in protest to it.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/51

I generally agree though, since I joined in 2004 to help me deal with and oppose Bush's 2nd term. Defeating Republicans is a primary objective, but as with DFA, defeating DINOs is a secondary objective. If we cannot take back our party, then how can we possibly take back our country?

[Macarena]

62. teehee..i'm a newb!

[Maddy McCall]

66. teehee...not anymore.

[Gold Metal Flake]

83. Macarena is no longer with us.

[chixydix]

63. Newbies aren't the issue. Our inability to formulate a coherent position is...

is why we can't get a goddamn thing done and
is why we can't reclaim a congressional majority and
is why we probably can't beat the senile old bastard McCain in November.

[Lex]

67. Do you really think that we think you are a Democrat?

Come on, now.

[Gold Metal Flake]

84. chixydix is no longer with us.

[Firespirit]

65. Funny how the "don't badmouth Democrats" never seemed to apply to the Kerry bashers

For 4 years now, Kerry supporters have had to deal with "Skull and Bones brother, he never wanted to win," "IWR IWR IWR IWR NEVAR FORGIVE NEVAR FORGET," "he let meeeeee down in Ohio," "folded like a cheap suit," "has-been," "weak," and more. With virtually no moderation of it. It still goes on.

So you can't handle Hillary getting smeared? Here's my answer.

:nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

And I've been around since 2002.

[DeepModem Mom]

69. Too late to rec, but thanks for this post, kentuck. nt

[spuds]

70. what if?

you dislike one of the Democrats i'll not mention her name so much if she gets the nominee that I'll be a no vote and drop my party over it?

[Quantess]

78. Hello, did you not get the memo?

Keep your stinky shit on GD-P please.

[salin]

85. Easy -

then if we get a McCain presidency, his supreme court picks, his next choice of war (remember his laughing : "bomb, bomb, bomb, - bomb, bomb Iran" (to the tune of Barbara Ann) ), his economic policies of more tax cuts and even less regulation, you will be considered as a big a part of the problem of the acceleration of bushera disasterous problems, as those who went out and worked for McCain.

I would say the same thing who threatens the same against the other candidate's nomination were that to happen.

[spuds]

96. ummmm what about freespeech?

if it's not some suck up deal with the dem's you don't count? just because im a dem doesnt mean I have to vote for a nominee just because of the party? I just refuse to put that person in office we don't need a dramma queen picking up the phone at 3am.

[texshelters]

73. What's the deal about "newbies?"

There is a rumor going around that new people to DU just got out of the womb, off the bus, and just popped their cherry. What a bunch of BS that is! Why is it assumed that people who have been on a long time are any saner or more genteel?

Cheney is experienced, and we can all agree he's an ass.

Experience on DU does not translate into world experience and vice versa.

So old farts, get over yourselves!

Tex Shelters

[Firespirit]

75. It's a GDP thing, I think

In hellGDP, there are a lot of people who start inflammatory threads and have low post counts. To some of the old guard, this means they should be suspected to be trolls, particularly if the posts in question are opposing their choice of candidate.

Ordinarily, one is not considered a newbie after hitting maybe 200 posts. But during primary season, it seems that one must be a 1000+ poster and a 3+ year member to not be a "noob." Ah, primary season. Usually DU is very polite to new members, but this year has brought out the worst of everyone.

[texshelters]

77. How about we say "trolls" and not newbies?

Most of my friends have never been on DU, and they are very smart politically. Perhaps that is why they stay off DU?

Tex Shelters

[kentuck]

82. It's difficult to understand how....

a politically smart friend could be on the Internet and not run across DU at least one time over the last 7 years? Perhaps they stay off DU for other reasons?

[Firespirit]

91. Many people are not interested in a forum

Have you ever Googled for tech advice, software bugs, or such things? The Internet is littered with geek forums filled with questions from low-post-count users. They ask their question, maybe post a few replies on their thread, and leave. Yet these forums also have regulars who have hundreds or thousands of posts.

A person can have no interest in participating on a forum, maybe not even be aware that it exists, until some issue in particular comes up and they suddenly feel the need to join and post. We've got a primary going on, the first primary where the Internet is playing a highly active part. It stands to reason that there would be an influx of members.

You have suggested several times now that people who are just now joining DU somehow have less right to be here than those who have used this site as bitching grounds for 7 years -- worse, that because they didn't join a freaking website until now, maybe they're not really Democrats or progressives. That's a ridiculous purity test. It also makes me wonder what will become of this site if we do win this year, if it's nothing more than a place for the same old people to complain and "commiserate" about Republicans.

DU is nothing but a big political forum. There are individual journals, but the site is not known for being a blog, and blogs are the big thing in online politics, not web forums. The "citizen journalism" format of a blog lends an appearance of professionalism to pontificating that a forum post cannot do. Blogs look like mainstream columns; DU looks and always will look like a forum. It's perfectly believable that someone could be politically informed without being part of a forum.

[kentuck]

99. It's not about being a "newbie"...

It's about being an asshole with an attitude. You don't know me. I have welcomed many a "newbie" to the underground. But when they come in full of venom and hating everybody we have tried to build up, it's just a little hard to swallow. We won't have to "commiserate" about Republicans - we will fight them right here. They are not Democrats. They are hateful trolls. It's just a forum. They don't give a shit a about it. Tomorrow they will be gone. After leaving all their hate and crap behind.

[Quantess]

79. Stick around a while, and you will see.

Everyone here knows they were once a "newbie".
I was a thoughtful newbie, but I still got scrutinized, especially when I made a joke. (you think that's funny!!1?)

I'm still here because I am a genuine Liberal, and a genuine Democrat, and because I try to bring good to the forums (I sometimes fail in that regard). It's also about maturity (LOL, I sometimes fail in that regard, too).

Anyway, if I "fart", it's clearly none of your business.

[1]

74. well, as a newbie...

i so appreciate the wisdom of "oldbies" like yourself setting us straight about how we should think and post.

no. really, i do. being all "naive" like i am and all, i truly value the dictum of yours about how my mind should work and what i should say.

no. really...

[kentuck]

80. Where have you been for the last 7 years?

Posting on Freeperland?? Or did you just become aware of the mess we are in and just dropped by to give us your wisdom on the topics of the day? Turnip truck passengers?

[texshelters]

95. I guess I'm just too new

to think this post is funny or insightful.

If you're serious, which is hard to believe, millions of people are doing millions of things and they have nothing to do with DU. Or do you think DU is the end all and be all to life and politics?

If you believe this, you are deluded.

If you are joking, you're way to subtle.

Tex Shelters

[salin]

81. just caught this thread

have to say while I made light reading of the Primaries (then "politics") forum by mid primaries last round as it seemed so ugly, this time I have avoided it altogether.

I will say there have been a few exceptions over the years per the dem bad-mouthing - ole Lieberman and Miller come to mind. In those cases uniform disdain was pretty strong (proven out that our collective sentiments were not wrong).

Had to chuckle as I read this thread. It is been awhile since I have seen a thread bring out so many tombstones.

:hi:

[BryMan]

87. Hate

I don't hate Hillary, I don't trust her, I don't get inspired by her, She has a plastic quality to her, she seems very disconnected from the average person, and her campaign has been badly done. Shes been surviving on cult of personality, problem is she doesn't have much of hat either.

Now Mark Penn, I hate that slimebag.

As far as newbies being the driving force behind the "hate", eh I've seen most come from people with 1000+ posts.

[Dorian Gray]

88. Sadly

I think that message can be given to more than just newbies. Lots of people are getting their hate on. It's sad. :(

[Robb]

89. Good post. As an old fart,

...I'll add to the sentiment that this, too, shall pass, but it's taking a damn sight longer this go-around than it did before, and we all know why. It's rough, but part of it.

I like to tell folks DU is a better reflection of the party than they think. For example, there's a few folks I've gotten knock-down ugly with in GD and what-not over the years. Hard to believe, I know, given my teddy-bear-like sensibilities. :D

And back in the Lounge, or frankly if they needed help in the real world (it's still out there, I saw it only today), I'd do anything for 'em.

We're Democrats. Our party is like this -- fight tooth and nail for our individual differences, offer each other rides back from the caucuses on our commonalities. It's a little more effort than being lockstep on everything, but we know it's worth it.

[Phred42]

90. But Hillary is not a Democrat - Shes DLC - A Moderate Republican

[abq e streeter]

92. I guess I'm still relatively new ( since last July 4th)

and I had been regularly reading DU for awhile, but started posting because I had been saddened by some of the comments I saw being expressed by people that were supposed to be on my side, and felt a need to add what I hoped would be another voice of civility. ( And I haven't been perfect in that; I sometimes have a tendency towards sarcasm and occasionally disagree by taking what I view as faulty logic and "agree" with someone by then taking their logic to a ridiculous extreme. Example: someone lists being first lady as a qualification to be president , and "agree" by announcing my support for a ticket of Laura Bush and Nancy Reagan). But its one thing to stridently criticize such things as what I ( and many here) see as the spinelessness, selling out, etc. of our party leadership, or express vehement disagreement with policies or tactics of some of our candidates, and its another to stoop to some of the ignorant , hate-filled attacks that have appeared here too often, especially in recent months. At the risk of sounding age-ist, I often wonder about the age of some of the people posting the attacks and personal insults. I have recently become hooked on you tube, mainly for music , not political things, and occasionally post comments there, as well as read other's comments. I'm always amazed at the number of "ur a stupid asshole if you like ..." ( and much worse) type of comments I see there , obviously by young people of what I call the " Jerry Springer Generation" ( BTW: how embarrassing that Springer is one of us politically) where hurling low class, ignorant insults has been modeled to them as an appropriate type of social interaction. To all the intelligent, involved, young DUers, please accept my SINCERE apologies for my speculation here, which for starters, may very well be utterly without merit, and just an unfair generalization. Again, my purpose was speculation, not accusation. Yow, I guess I really went off on a tangent ( as usual) , but my original point is that I too have been upset at the anger and vitriol directed against each other, while the enemies of everything we believe in ( i.e. the republicans) are skipping merrily along, destroying (or trying to destroy) everything we all hold dear about America.

[dogday]

93. Something I have been preaching for week.. I refuse to

badmouth a Democrat or those that support this party... It has been a mantra for this forum and has been abused for a while now....

[Donald Ian Rankin]

Dupe, delete

[spuds]

97. lets just run around blind.

and not speak our minds and let the cards fall where they may....i'll be the one saying don't cry to me I didn't put her there.

[spuds]

98. am I mad? yes and have every right to be.

new's flash yor the dem party not the communist party don't even try to use me as one of your ponds. Clinton's a phony her and Nacy Pelosi and there do nothing congress are. do they realy think we are blind to there crap? im a dem and thinking of going independent if anyone should get the job it's obma. im sick of the same old political jerks her and that bunch of nafta dimwits sold me out im 47 years old served in the army for 12 damn years and yes clinton I know what real sniper fire is got out went to work for walker machinery making catapiler parts making 14 bucks an houre with 401k and the works then bang with two weeks notice we find out there shutting down the plant that was eight months ago what am I doing now? dilivering pizza in my care with gas prices eating my pay at a hole $7.10 an hour pluse tip's if you get one and lucky me I have to pay for the beating my car is taking from delivering crappy pizza..do I feel screwed umm you bet john kennedy said one don't ask what your country can do for you ask what you can do for your country! I think I did enough for this country and will I do more not hardly screw you right back congress and you to bush.....and right now that little dreammer's talking to Columbia about free trade you see what that shit has got us so far.you do what you want but i'll not let any of you dem's or not talk me into a vote one way or the othere you play the status quo and shit will never change oh one more thing it will be a cold day in hell befor i'll let her mandate anything from me i'll not play that forced crap thats a Georg Bush stunt we have a constitution and thats the only game i'll play. now if you want to kick me out of your little club do so losing this isn't anything compared to what I have lost already.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

94. I'm afraid I don't agree that most DUers don't hate other Democrats.

If you visit GD:P, you'll see an awful lot of evidence to the contrary.

Most DUers *claim* not to hate other Democrats, sure, but if you look at the content of their posts on the subjects of Hillary and (to a lesser but still substantial extent) Obama - let alone on the likes of Pelosi, Reid, not to mention Lieberman - you'll see that they're being either dishonest or innaccurate when they do so.