Michael Richards (Kramer) was doing standup too, when he called people a name in bad taste

[Prefer]

So do you the Randi supporters agree with with him on that one now?

Nothing wrong with what he said, right? it was just a joke. Odd that people held him accountable for that one, don't they know he was in a comedy club?

[mikelgb]

1. you have been working hard on that angle haven't you?

did your finger slip off the drool on your keyboard in your haste to post this...

[Prefer]

3. I insult you back

[Gold Metal Flake]

2. Troll harder, dear.

[Prefer]

9. How is that trolling?

In all sincerity, would you explain the meaning you gleaned from the juxtoposition of Randi's insult with Kramer's?

[Richard Steele]

50. Rest assured, he will.

They always do.

[Gold Metal Flake]

51. Indeed.

"Troll? Moi? Whatevah do yo-ahh mean?" (fans self coyly)

[OmahaBlueDog]

4. I brought that up in another thread

When you're a comic, everything seems like a good idea at the time. However, humor can have a major blowback.

3 examples:

Don Imus and the now infamous "Nappy headed ***s" comment: Imus was, in fact, making use of a reference in a then-popular hip-hop song. Imus suffered personally and professionally.

Michael Richard's ill fated satire of hip-hop culture (the now-infamous "N" word rant). Richards suffered personally and professionally.

Rosanne Barr's National Anthem: This is the joke that no one got. She sang the National Anthem between games at a ladies day double header in San Diego. Her screeching, crotch scratching rendition was intended to poke fun at male baseball watchers (who scratch and sing off key at ball games). The joke fell flat, and Roseanne suffered personally and professionally.


Bottom line: Randi has been in the radio business a long time and should have known better. She knows he deal; she makes her money based on her employer's ability to sell advertising on her show. If she wants to quit and do stand-up, so she can say what she wants, fine. If she wants to do her own webcast/podcast and sell her own advertising, again, fine. Otherwise, she should enjoy her unpaid vacation.

[Lerkfish]

5. "you Randi supporters"

I have never listened to Randi (we don't get AAR in our area)

but I am amused as to how many people clinton supporters wish to throw under the bus.

[jgraz]

8. They want to blame everyone but the one person responsible for Hillary's failure

Guess who that is...

[Prefer]

14. Spefically referring to people arguing in favor of Randi on this issue

And for the record I am one who listens to Randi, loves Randi, and also dislikes and is critical of certain aspects of her on the show.

[otohara]

6. I Can't Wait Until She Apologizes

like those before her, Imus, Matthews, Schultz, Kramer, Gibson.

Or will she pull a Geraldine Ferraro, and refuse to apologize.

How ironic, she calls Ferraro a whore when she should have stood by her for sticking to her guns on Free Speech.

[OmahaBlueDog]

12. That is ironic

...and yes, the mea culpa should be interesting.

I didn't mean it like it sounded....I have the deepest respect....I apologize if anyone was offended....I know it looks like I'm a shill for the other campaign, but I'm not.....blah, bhah, blah.

[chixydix]

7. Watch out, the Double Standard Bearers will be all over you like stink on shit

for that!

;-)

[noamnety]

10. You've missed the first rule of DU.

Overtly bigoted racist comments are horrifying, and the people who make them should be shunned. Overtly bigoted sexist comments - if you have a problem with those, apparently you're a right wing religious fundie prude. :eyes:

[Prefer]

16. Yes, I guess that is the crux. Thank You

Made me laugh also.

[Jed Dilligan]

11. Kind of like joking about sniper fire

on the eve of the anniversary of Dr. King being killed by a sniper.

[SammyWinstonJack]

21. Bizarre.

:eyes:

[Hobarticus]

30. Make sure you warm up before you stretch so far...

You might get hurt.

[Jed Dilligan]

32. Before the sniper lie, she was merely distasteful to me.

After the sniper lie, she became vile to me.

After the sniper joke, she became a monster to me.

I actually forgave Kramer much more than I will ever find it in myself to forgive her.

She is a disgusting human being for boasting about courage she has never displayed and challenges she has never faced.

[Hobarticus]

34. Well, we all have personal thresholds...

I can understand, honestly, why HRC evokes such rage. And that's cool. But I'm not about to call anybody a fucking whore because I disagree with them, nor would I applaud or defend anyone else saying that. And I can swear like a drunken sailor with the best of 'em.

Guess I have a different idea of what it means to be a "progressive voice".

Peace, have a good weekend....

[EFerrari]

13. It's so bizarre to see people so upset over anyone getting into trouble

for a bit of stand up.

Every comedian has a story about being suspended or fired or banned.

/spelling

[OmahaBlueDog]

17. Here's what I don't get

In another thread, a poster wrote in that no progressive would ever condone the use of "FW"

But progressives were the ones who worked to clear the way for Richard Pryor (frequent "n-word" user) and Lenny Bruce to do their thing.

[EFerrari]

19. Sure. But, the bar is in a different place today.

If I was in their audience now, I'd kick their @sses. lol :)

[jgraz]

15. Are you saying that what Randi did was the equivalent of using N****R??

Seriously? You think a female performer referring to a prominent female politician as a whore (something many politicians are called) is the same as a famous white actor calling some anonymous black audience members n****rs??

You gotta be kidding me.

[OmahaBlueDog]

18. They're not kidding

.. and for the record, Michael Richards is an actor, but is also a stand-up commedian. He was making what turned out to be a really misunderstood satire of hip-hop culture.

That said, I agree -- the "w" word is applied all the time to pols.

[Prefer]

22. No, I am not saying that

I am not really saying anything, I just wanted to pose the two together and see how people felt they were similar or different.

I am thinking from all of this that it doesn't matter as much what you say, but what it means. What Randy meant I felt was in outrageously bad taste. If she had simply said "sellout" instead of whore it would have not have had such bad taste that reflected poorly on a lot of people. She was being the callous egdy rock chick howard stern that she sees her image as, and it didn't work for me. I thought it was tasteless even if I agree with what she said.

I support free speech, but that doesn't equate so endorsing bad taste. The Kramer thing points out that no matter who you are, you are responsible for you own poor decisions.

Separate issue - is AA taking it out on her? Yes. Probably to take care of:

Separate issue - should she be endorsing Obama and attacking Hillary? From a management standpoint, no. Bad business. Turns half the audience off.

[jgraz]

29. Let me address one thing you said

should she be endorsing Obama and attacking Hillary? From a management standpoint, no. Bad business. Turns half the audience off.

This has been said a number of times and it's one of the most ridiculous misconceptions about talk radio. Randi is PAID to have opinions. So is every talk radio host out there.

She's already "turning off" a good portion of the audience by being a liberal. Should she change that? She "turns off" more of the audience by being an outspoken woman. Perhaps she should give that up as well.

The simple truth is that far fewer than half of AAR's core audience support Hillary. And only a small fraction of those are so thin-skinned that they can't handle hearing an opposing viewpoint.

I guarantee you, if Randi hid her disdain for Hillary's tactics and pretended to be even-handed, she'd lose a lot more than half her audience. That's just not what her show is about.

[Prefer]

41. Good argument

I am compelled to agree but, she is paid to have progressive opinions, not to narrow down the scope of progressive opinions. She's not paid to infight.

As far as thin skinned, a turnoff is a turn off and it gets turned off. Thats what the management is minding.

She was pretty good about reporting and not condemning for the most part, relatively fair I think even in being open about supporting Obama. It was the level that it brought the dialog to that was a problem. Name calling isn't even desirable on DU.

[EFerrari]

24. It is in the sense that they were both in stand up mode

and not in politically correct mode. They both overshot their marks. That's when bad things happen.

[Prefer]

37. Right, it's just how you meant it and whether it was funny or not

When Lenny Bruce did it, it was inclusive and he was having us all laughing at the whole mindset of the racist.

Here's an example from a skit called "How to make black people feel comfortable at parties". So, Lenny is making fun of the Archie Bunker in people in this piece, playing the character. He has already told the guy that "Some of my best friend are black"...

Lenny: "Yeah, I'd have you over to the house, but I got a sister, you know, and ... put it this way, you wouldn't want no Jew doin' it your sister, would you? Well I don't want no coon doin' it to mine."

Extremely tastless on the surface, and yet funny because we are laughing at the racist ridiculing himself.

So for Randi to have call the women "whore" in a tasteful or funny way, it would have had to laugh at people who use the word whore in seriousness. What she did was use the word in a way that was demeaning to women and she did it to attack her political opponant.

[EFerrari]

40. Yep. These are the interstices that good comedians play in

all the time. And they are the ones that less skillful comics should stay the hell out of.

lol

[TTUBatfan2008]

20. Whore...

does NOT always mean prostitute or slut and I don't think that's the definition Randi meant. Clinton has been hanging out with the likes of Richard Mellon Scaife (right winger that funded a huge smear campaign of lies about the Clintons during the 1990's). Of all the people for her to hang out with, I never would have expected her to hang out with a guy that accused her of murder. Seems like a sell-out to me. Randi should have known better or at least clarified it, and I think the suspension is good for her. She needs to chill the fuck out.

[chixydix]

23. Boy howdy, talk about mexed missages...

:eyes:

[Prefer]

26. She meant sellout, but when you call women that it takes on a new evocation

so I don't think it is an excuse. But I am in agreement with you.

[valerief]

25. That was an incident of fanning the flames by the media.

The audience can respond to an offensive entertainer. The media doesn't need to fan the flames.

Randi was just telling it like it is.

[EFerrari]

28. Unless you disagree with her, in which case she wasn't.

Or, unless you just find her remarks offensive, in which case she was being offensive.

So many choices.

[valerief]

31. If her audience found her offensive, they could deal with her at the venue.

Case closed. No need for Air America or the media to fan the flames. See? It's really the same.

[EFerrari]

33. I'm not really not on Randi's side. But who is her audience, exactly?

Just the people in that room, people who watch youtube, her radio audience? All serially? It's not that simple which is why AAR sets a standard for their hosts when they appear in other venues. That AAR management may also be petty @ssholes with an agenda is another thing and of course, their right.

This little drama may end up being good for her and for AAR in the long run, in any case. But we will always have our two hundred threads defending Randi for what could be theater.

[valerief]

35. I realize it may well be just theater. It usually is. But I'm older and weary

of all the false outrage of the finger waggers. Randi could say, "Dick Cheney eats poo-poo tacos for breakfast," and people could cry, "That's disgusting!" and I'd come to her defensive. I'm so sick of the easily outraged, not the showmen (like Randi) stirring the pot. Randi's a wealth of information and says so many enlightening things on her show that the FWs won't. The finger waggers have already screwed up this country enough.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. BINGO

and I'm also wary of the this is the way it has always been done as well, since that does not necessarily mean it is correct

I also fear we already lost the country and this is just a symptom of it

[EFerrari]

39. Yes, that gets really tiresome. I agree.

I don't listen to Randi because I've heard enough "language" and ranting to last me the rest of my life after more than ten years dealing with stand ups including here at home. But, that's just my taste and not something to offload all over the place. :crazy:

[northzax]

27. hey now, air America could use a shock jock

maybe this will make randi the liberal ann coulter. Good for ratings, at least. Now we know where she stands. I don't care, personally, of they fire her or not. But if they don't, we learn what air America stands for. Good information.

[spanone]

36. richards verbally attacked an audience member - not the same

it was not part of his routine.....he 'lost it' on stage....it's not a fair comparison

[EFerrari]

42. I think it's very fair. They both screwed up.

They both thought their context was shared enough by their audience that they could push the envelope and they were both wrong. He went off on anonymous people, she went off on Hillary.

[spanone]

43. apples/oranges....richards lost his cool and called an audience member the N word

not the same the audience member is not a politician who is fair game for comedy

[EFerrari]

45. When have audience members not been fair game for comedy?

I thought that's why they were there. :)

[Matariki]

44. I agree with you

Too much double standard. And there's nothing funny about calling women and female leaders 'fucking whores'.

Randi Rhodes is consistently rude and annoying so this doesn't really surprise me.

[demgurl]

46. I was listening to Sam Sedar filing in for Randi today.

I am not quite sure what he was talking about but he said that whether he agrees or not with her being suspended, Air America has that policy and they are allowed to have it.

I do not know what policy Sam was talking about but I know he is an intelligent man because I have listened to him long enough and read one of his books. He would not talk out of his backside about a policy of some sort if one was not in place.

At first I was taken aback that they would suspend Randi. Then I thought about the fact that it was an AAR sponsored event and she WAS representing that company so I figured if it was on her own time they had no right but if she is representing AAR in a bad light then they have a right to defend themselves through suspension. But after hearing that AAR has an actual policy in place for these types of things, I equate it with pharmacists not selling birth control. YOu know the rules and what your job is before hand and if you do not do your job as you were warned and agreed to do by signing a contract, you are fair game for reparations.

Comparing Randi to Michael is comparing apples and oranges. Michael was representing himself and not some big corporation. He did not sign a work contract and go out on the road representing a corporation. Although neither was right in what they did.

[EFerrari]

47. A stand up is always repping him/herself AND the venue or venues.

If Randi had said what she said in the Safeway parking lot, it would still have been in public and she would still be in trouble if her remarks got bad publicity or even, had the POTENTIAL to get bad publicity.

Ditto for Richards. If he'd said what he said in the gift shop of his hotel and the booker or club owner found out about it, he'd also have been in trouble.

And THAT is a good reason to 1) hire unflappable handlers or 2) go into IT.

[SteinbachMB]

48. Richards always did standup

and that is the way it should be taken. But we live in a wussified society, so everyone is fair game. Sad.

[noamnety]

52. What an odd post.

Who is "wussified"? The people complaining about racist/sexist slurs?

Or the people using racist/sexist slurs who start whining when someone calls them on it?

----------------

Sounds to me like you want black people and women to be fair game, but people using racist/sexist slurs not to be. Your own use of slightly homophobic/misogynistic "wussified" is duly noted. Apologies if our society is not suitably macho for you.

[Macarena]

49. I love Kramer!!