Finally. On TeeeVeee. "Bush Administration Officials Will Be 'Indicted For War Crimes"

[understandinglife]

Media coverage of the disclosure of the "torture memo" authored by Bush Justice Department official John C. Yoo has been mostly a deafening silence. But on this morning's Chris Matthews' show, , credit goes to The Atlantic's Andrew Sullivan, for taking the opportunity to ensure that this matter got out into the televised discourse somehow.

SULLIVAN: The latest revelations on the torture front show the memo from John Yoo...means that Don Rumsfeld, David Addington and John Yoo should not leave the United States any time soon. They will be, at some point, indicted for war crimes.

Video at this link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/06/andrew-sullivan-bush-admi_n_95305.html

Wonder how that's playing at the White House and elsewhere in the fantasy-zone (aka, 'inside the beltway') ...


"It is LONG PAST Tribunal Time in the United States of America"

[tekisui]

1. KANDFUCKINGR!!! LOCK UP THE WAR CRIMINALS!!!

[amihol]

83. They indeed should be locked up.

[SammyWinstonJack]

2. K&R!

[Systematic Chaos]

3. Yay! I put it on the greatest page!

Thank you... I'll be here all week. Try the fish!

PLEASE let this happen!!

[understandinglife]

8. Thank you!

Peace,
Bob

[calimary]

106. Shit. I'm too late. So is Andrew Sullivan, but at least he's finally awake. WIDE awake,

it would seem.

Man, when Andrew Sullivan gets religion, he really gets religion. Souls CAN be saved!

[Riddler]

4. The "Justice" Department won't even serve a Congressional Subpoena on these bastards.

Who in the hell is going to hold them accountable for their war crimes? The spineless Senate Democrats?

[mopinko]

9. this is a prerequisite for prosecution in the hague

the criminals have to be unlikely to face prosecution in their own countries.

[conscious evolution]

34. Correct.

[goclark]

62. Am I dreaming ~ I want to be there at the Hague

Yes I do! :bounce:

I am so serious, I will book my tickets the minute I get the word.

I am serious, I want to be standing outside with my huge sign ~ YES I WILL!

Please let it come true.

[mopinko]

119. wanna share a room?

i'd be right there, too.

[tavalon]

31. The international community

We The People have given up any moral standing or appreciation of Rule Of Law!

[speedoo]

38. Thanks to Chuck Schumer.

Shithead Schumer.

[elleng]

46. and

Diane Feinstein.

[H8fascistcons]

94. Thank You Speedoo...........

I have been calling these spineless Democrats out for months and have been taking some heat from other DUers.... Thank You.


*These criminal Fascist republicans could not continue to commit crimes against our constitution and the world without the help of the criminal Democratic Fascist enablers. Yes, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer, Harry Reid, Rahm Emanuel, Jay Rockefeller, Ted Kennedy. They are all guilty of complicity, they do not get to pick and choose which crimes against the constitution to ignore!!!!!!!

[disndat]

114. Ted Kennedy???

I don'tthink so.

[JPettus]

71. Justice won't as long as it's under the control of the White House

Now, whether or not the spineless Dems in charge of Congress will have the courage to take it on once the Bushies are out of power, hard to say.

I don't have a lot of hope in them from what I've seen in the past year.

[Supersedeas]

109. Muk Muk Mukasey doesn't want to touch the torture issue -- passing it to the next AG

[SalmonChantedEvening]

5. K&R!! To The Hague with them. ALL of them. n/t

[Hugabear]

6. Are they waiting for Bush, Cheney, Rice, Gonzales, etc to leave office?

Why not indict the whole lot of them? Expand the prison if you have to.

[elleng]

47. Won't happen until Dem admin,

which is why they'll play their election/voting games.

We've gotta watch out for this in November (IF they permit the election to be held.)

[ekwhite]

54. That is why none of the candidates will talk about it.

They don't want to end up like JFK, RFK, and Martin Luther King.

[elleng]

56. Right I'm afraid;

there are no accidents in this business.

[kestrel91316]

99. You are dead on. I just watched the movie "JFK" and I soooooo

get it now.

[sansatman]

60. 272 more Republicans charged with criminal activity...

So much to do... so little political will.



http://www.republicanoffenders.com/

[NNN0LHI]

7. Didn't Bush hang Saddam for WAR CRIMES?

How fitting.

Don

[orleans]

59. !!

:evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin:

[goclark]

63. Can they hang Bushco?

I am not a violent person but------------------------------

[bdamomma]

86. I am not a violent person either, but just the arrogance of these thugs

they should consider that form of punishment.

[FourScore]

10. That'd be great and I did recommend this thread...but

it ain't gonna happen. Anybody with any sense already knows this shit was going on. This is really nothing new. This administration will never be held to account. It's sad but true.

(BTW, I would be thrilled if history proves me wrong.)

[Crabby Appleton]

19. You are correect, never going to happen. nt

[puebloknot]

11. "For want of a tribunal, a democratic republic was lost." Perish the thought! nt

[ThatsMyBarack]

12. I hope its real--We deserve it!

A new day for America! :patriot: :party:

[Disturbed]

13. According to John Yoo, a Pres of the US can do whatever

in War. Since the US Govt. declared War on Afghanistan & Iraq, the Pres. & his Admin.
can deal with "Enemy Combatants" outside of any Intl. Treaties &/or Agreements.

[hwmnbn]

14. So which is it gonna be?...

Is the foundation of our laws the US Constitution or a memo from from a flunky lawyer in the White House?

Mopinko had it right upthread. These assholes tried to get slick by hiding these memos and not going thru the proper channels, even classifying them inappropriately. This shows a conscious attempt to evade accountability.

Our Justice Department sucks, but maybe there are some other countries with a sense of integrity and justice. How ironic would it be if our war criminals were prosecuted in the Hague by German lawyers?

[tavalon]

32. Yes ironic, but oh, so, necessary.

[notadmblnd]

78. I don't tjhink the US did declare war

congress gave the pretzledent authority to use military force, but a war was not declared by Congress.

[mod mom]

15. and from a former Republican no less!

:hi: UL-let's hope Mr Sullivan is correct!

[understandinglife]

50. Oh, he's correct.

:hi: my friend ....

[bluesmail]

16. K&R Watching the video

of Andrew Sullivan, speaking, I do believe it's another 'indictment' along with a long list of 'indictments' so many that it builds the ultimate ironclad case. Please be what you're working on, please, I want to be alive when they are whisked away by their own security and the cherry on top? They're jailed and are victims of their own laws. On edit, So? Who cares if it is a conspiracy as long as they go Down!

[spanone]

17. k&r andrew has come a long way

[Perry Logan]

18. Is this another first for the Republicans?

[nichomachus]

26. No. Henry Kissinger has to be very careful of where he goes.

[Perry Logan]

73. Far out. More fruits of the Republican Revolution.

[coalition_unwilling]

116. So does Rums-feratu -n/t

[Kitty Herder]

20. By the Nuremburg standard, they should be hanged. But I don't believe in capital punishment, so

I'll say they should be sentenced to life in prison.

[nichomachus]

27. Not only should they be hanged

I used to be against capital punishment, but have decided to make an exception in the case of the Bush Crime Family. Not only should they be hanged, it should be shown on Pay Per View. We could probably pay for some of the damage he has done.

[Liberal Gramma]

28. This could beat the SuperBowl in terms of viewers

[Politicalboi]

43. That would be worth EVERY penny

I would love to see them get the justice they deserve. Only I would like the Iraqi people have there day with them and let them decide how they should die. Hanging, Beheading, Electrocution, Quartering
it's all good

[kestrel91316]

101. I'd pay to watch.

:popcorn: :toast:

[Subdivisions]

21. This is actually the perfect way to get to those two criminals

at the very top. Go for Yoo, et.al. and that will lead to the smoking gun that will ensure that boosh and chainey go to prison for the rest of their miserable lives.

K&R!

[DB1]

22. K and R

[monmouth]

23. It could be a problem for Condi if she's McSame's VP...Hahahaha

[annabanana]

24. May that declaration be as a stone in a pond....

ripples expanding. . .

[understandinglife]

51. ... and expanding ....

Peace,
Bob

[nichomachus]

25. Has anyone forgotten

Congress a long time ago authorized the president to bomb any country that tries to bring charges against any of his henchmen.

[huskerlaw]

29. I'll believe it when I see the handcuffs. n/t

[jazzjunkysue]

30. I saw it too, Not holding my breath. Too many dems have their fingers

in the war profits for them to start proceedings. The GOP couldln't get us into all this mess without the dem's help.

[roamer65]

33. If we don't send them to the Hague, we deserve economic sanctions.

Other countries, such as Serbia, have sanctions imposed for not surrendering war criminals. So to should the USA, if we do not surrender ours.

[Jackpine Radical]

35. Now you begin to see why

we spend more on military forces than the rest of the world combined. We may deserve economic sanctions--oh, Hell we DO deserve sanctions--but just who is gonna impose them, and how?

[Selatius]

65. The UN Security Council imposes formal sanctions, but the US has veto power on the SC.

Nothing will happen through the Security Council as a result. Imagine Hitler having veto power on the Security Council. He could impede any effort there to establish a formally recognized war crimes tribunal.

[understandinglife]

49. Correct. That "Nuremberg chalice" is real and waiting ....

One of several of my archived posts on this topic -- 10 December 2005 --

That chalice will not disappear for those whom have filled it with their vast crimes against humanity ...


Peace,
Bob

[Gman]

36. They already tried to arrest Rumsfeld in France

See: Rumsfeld flees France fearing arrest

Numerous other articles if you google arrest and rumsfeld.

[Pacifist Patriot]

108. Eee gad. I got sucked into the responses to that article. I need a shower.

Goodness Americans can be so bloody stupid. And I get grief for homeschooling. Sheesh!

[fascisthunter]

37. Thank You Mr. Sullivan, a Worthy Political Adversary yet a Better Compatriot

We have to understand something more important than politics itself, that regardless of our differences, we are Americans. United we stand or divided we fall.

[Jack Rabbit]

39. K/R

The Palace of Peace, The Hague
Home of the International Criminal Court
Photo: James Madison University

[LaStrega]

40. FANFUCKINGTASTIC!

:kick: & rec!

:woohoo:

[Hawkeye-X]

41. The entire maladministration needs to be indicted..

from the Office of the President to the Office of President's Nose Cleaner.

[phrigndumass]

42. Kicked & Rec'd

:toast:

[progressoid]

44. I'll take whatever he's smokin'

Indicted...doubtful.

Convicted...extremely doubtful.

[Nostradammit]

45. Shout it from the rooftops!

This quote from Glenn Greenwald, however, is not entirely correct:

"Every day, it becomes more difficult to blame George Bush, Dick Cheney and comrades for their seven years (and counting) of crimes, corruption and destruction of our political values. Think about it this way: if you were a high government official and watched as -- all in a couple of weeks time -- it is revealed, right out in the open, that you suspended the Fourth Amendment, authorized torture, proclaimed yourself empowered to break the law, and sent the nation's top law enforcement officer to lie blatantly about how and why the 9/11 attacks happened so that you could acquire still more unchecked spying power and get rid of lawsuits that would expose what you did, and the political press in this country basically ignored all of that and blathered on about Obama's bowling score and how he eats chocolate, wouldn't you also conclude that you could do anything you want, without limits, and know there will be no consequences? What would be the incentive to stop doing all of that?"


I have NO problem blaming Bush and Cheney for their crimes.

[postulater]

48. Which of our candidates will support indictment?

I got feeling neither will touch it nor would allow it.

Wish it would happen, but I'm afraid they'll get away with it.

[The Wizard]

52. Nothing happens until a Democrat wins the White House

Bush has pardon power and no Republican would ever turn on another. They march in lockstep. That's just the way it is.
"Justice at Nuremberg"
http://www.amazon.com/phrase/major-war-criminals/ref=sip_bod_5
Public horse whippings compounded with cayenne pepper.
I see Condi Rice in thigh high stiletto heel boots wearing a leather mask standing on Cheney's groin as her way to avoid prosecution. Fun for the entire family.

[ekwhite]

55. Ewww...

It will take a gallon of Tequila to erase that image :puke:

[The Wizard]

80. Think of all the freeper creeps

sitting in their basements spanking the monkey to that image. :puke: :puke: :puke:

[ekwhite]

53. K&R!!

I would love to see John Yoo and Donald Rumsfeld doing a frog march.

[coalition_unwilling]

117. Don't forget to throw in Wolfowitz, Perle and Feith. And (on edit)

Ricardo Sanchez and L. Paul Bremer.

[dchill]

57. K&R!

:toast:

[jmpnfool]

58. Wouldn't it be nice

if some of these bastards were held accountable for their actions? Not likely tho.

[diane in sf]

61. Indict them all and their collaborators Repugs and Dems (sadly). Psychopaths

have no conscience so you have to scare the piss out of them.

Punishments: if we can't get torture or life imprisonment I'd settle for making them all spend a lifetime working at Walmart, no benefits, no extra money, living in a trailer in hurricane alley in West Buttfuck, Texas.

[Downtown Hound]

68. I'd settle for having each one of them publicly castrated

But working at Wal Mart? Come on, that's cruel and unusual. We liberals are supposed to be more enlightened than that. :evilgrin:

[Blackhatjack]

64. The Dark Stain on our Country's Reputation Wrought by These Criminals Won't Soon Fade...

It really comes down to a question of justice and the rule of law when you look at the action taken to hold these people accountable.

ANd if we cover it up, and protect them from prosecution that will ensure that the 'stain' is permanent.

[ToeBot]

66. Sounds like he's warning them not to leave the country because they will be subject to arrest.

He didn't say where they would be indited. I cant imagine anyone at Justice willing to pull back the curtain. Congress? Yeah, right. It would have to be the ICC.

[John Kerry VonErich]

67. Key words: At Some Point

I'll believe it when I see it.

[FatDave]

69. I stay away from DU for one day, and look what happens

Man, I can only hope this comes true.

[Connonym]

70. The'll be on a plane to Paraguay long before anyone is able to arrest them

If I'm not mistaken, Paraguay has offered amnesty for US war criminals. Especially the ones like the Bushes who have lotsa money.

[Caradoc]

72. Kissinger still walks free...

...so, sad to say, in this twisted world, only the innocent pay for the crimes of the guilty. Still, Paraguay may be as close to hell on earth as can be found for these amoral, anti-social neo-con criminals.

[NikolaC]

74. Forget It

With the current Dem "leadership" that we have, it's not going to happen. They have had ample opportunity to hold these people accountable and have chosen, for whatever reason, not only to not do so, but to tell the American people to sit and spin essentially if they think it will happen. It is purely guessing on my part, but I believe that they are hoping to just get through the election cycle, progress and move forward with an attempt to undo some of the damage from the last eight years. However, that is just a guess. Nice wishful thinking though :(.

[klyon]

112. unfortunately you are probably right

too sad

[mwb970]

75. It should have happened long ago.

By this time, I doubt that there is a single member of the Executive Branch who hasn't committed an indictable, if not impeachable, offense at some point. bush himself commits various crimes on a weekly basis now that he can be sure there will be no consequences. Or will there?

[JDwho]

76. Honest question:

Does anyone truly think this will come to pass? Perhaps, I have grown cynical after these eight years, but I'm nagged by the feeling that all involved in war crimes will never be held accountable. Would love to know your thoughts. My jaded point of view bothers me, but hoping that we, as a country, will do the right thing; then being severely disappointed has led me here. There is a small spark of hope, existing despite reason, that prosecution is in the future for those guilty of crimes against humanity.

[AlertLurker]

77. I wonder why they bother. Sigh.

Since they have the immunity from prosecution by the ICC that the USA gave them in 2002, they can only be indicted and tried for war crimes in the USA.

They will UNDOUBTEDLY be pardoned by * upon his "retirement."


SIGHSIGHSIGH. Why does it seem like the truly evil are never adequately punished?

[Blackhatjack]

79. I predict they will get the 'Pinochet treatment' and never be held to account....

... other countries friendly to the US would be hesitant to hold a US President accountable even though the same conduct by other world leaders would lead to their prosecution for war crimes.

[nealmhughes]

81. The prison at Spandau is empty these days, as is the Portsmouth Naval Prison in Maine.

[jcla]

82. It would be great

to have these war criminals put on trial. But they haven't gotten them yet because nobody seems willing to indict.

[bdamomma]

84. they are all War Criminals add Cheney to that list also

and Douglas Feith, that despicable man who was on 60 Minutes last nite.

[Solly Mack]

85. Yep....ALL of them

to include those that have resigned

[understandinglife]

96. In_Deed .... and they have no place to hide ....

Peace,
Bob

[NewJeffCT]

87. Andrew Sullivan is a Republican, too, isn't he?

though, he has been critical of Team Bush on several issues.

[ourbluenation]

89. He's a conservative independant...voted for Kerry. He's been all over torture issue 4 months

On his blog. He was for the war and then came to realize he was wrong. He's kind of a mixed bag...pro gay marriage, pro life, fiscally conservative Catholic. I read his blog everyday. I disagree with him on some things and agree on others.

[Echo In Light]

88. K&R

[ourbluenation]

90. Sullivan is one of the longest running, widely read bloggers. He's been hammering on torture

issue for over a year. The people in the whitehouse are aware of this. Momentum is building, Sullivan has been banging the drum pretty steadily, relentlessly.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/

[mdmc]

91. Democrats AWAKE

Time to put up or shut up

[happygoluckytoyou]

92. MCCAIN "IS IT TOO LATE FOR ME TO BOARD THE TITANIC?"

[coalition_unwilling]

118. McLame - the second example of a rat swimming towards a

sinking ship. (First was John Connolly, former Dem Governor of Texas turned Repuke just as Watergate started to heat up.)

[birdseye]

93. Your MSM In Action (Crooks and Liars)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your MSM In Action
By: SilentPatriot @ 6:30 AM - PDT

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/04/07/your-msm-in-action/

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/04/05/media/index.html

Glenn notes how well the media is doing its job:

In the past two weeks, the following events transpired. A Department of Justice memo, authored by John Yoo, was released which authorized torture and presidential lawbreaking. It was revealed that the Bush administration declared the Fourth Amendment of the Bill of Rights to be inapplicable to “domestic military operations” within the U.S. The U.S. Attorney General appears to have fabricated a key event leading to the 9/11 attacks and made patently false statements about surveillance laws and related lawsuits. Barack Obama went bowling in Pennsylvania and had a low score.

Here are the number of times, according to NEXIS, that various topics have been mentioned in the media over the past thirty days:

“Yoo and torture” - 102

“Mukasey and 9/11″ — 73

“Yoo and Fourth Amendment” — 16

“Obama and bowling” — 1,043

“Obama and Wright” — More than 3,000 (too many to be counted)

“Obama and patriotism” - 1,607

“Clinton and Lewinsky” — 1,079

The sad thing is that the mainstream press really does believe that things like Obama’s poor bowling skills and the Clinton’s tax returns are more important stories than, say, the trillion dollar war that continues to rage on with no end in sight or a collapsing economy. Like Glenn says, people care about the petty stuff because the media loves to tell themselves that they do.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

[parkeradison]

95. Regarding "war crimes"

Don't get too excited. Bush has an "ace in the hole", the Presidential Pardon.

[Virginian]

100. Wouldn't that make him even more of an international criminal?

This is an international crime. If we can't do anything here, if they get of "Scooter Free," here in the US, then the Hague should step in.
And if there is such a thing in international law as "obstructing justice", he would also have that tacked on to his crimes.

[redqueen]

97. Dare we hope?

It's sure been a very, very, very long time coming.

[kestrel91316]

98. If we can charge people with crimes and then go into other countries to

snatch them, I think turnabout's fair play. I see absolutely no reason why somebody in, say, the EU couldn't charge them with war crimes and then come right into the US and snatch them and put them on trial at the Hague. That would be the high point of my life.

Hey, Bushco, you can run, but you can't hide.

[EVDebs]

102. And after the war crimes tribunal, a look into how the War Powers Resolution was skirted

So that the "clear" (read truthful) "situations" and "circumstances" the act requires for action were 'tweaked' so that Iraq could be attacked and occupied.

And then when that's done, a REAL investigation into the same "clear" (read truthful) "situations" and "circumstances" might take another look into the 9-11 Attacks. Were those pretexts for war as many believe ?

See James Bamford's book A Pretext for War: 9/11, Iraq, and the Abuse of America's Intelligence Agencies.

And besides Dr K's quote on military men being 'stupid animals', I prefer his other quote,

"Any fact that needs to be disclosed should be put out now or as quickly as possible, because otherwise the bleeding will not end."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kissinger#Quotes

[lonestarnot]

103. Where is Fitzie these days?

[understandinglife]

115. Sharpening his knives ...

Peace,
Bob

[lonestarnot]

120. Cool! Does he need a

diamond?

[helderheid]

104. Holy shit, is this real!?!?

:wow:

[shagsak]

105. Finally

something we can ALL unite behind. 'Bout time.

[Divine Discontent]

107. its time for them to be held accountable for the mass tortures, dismemberments, & murder of 1million

there will be justice in the end....

[DutchLiberal]

110. They will never be convicted or indicted. They will all walk free.

Like all those others, Republicans and Democrats alike, did before them.

[bjobotts]

111. Will the democratrs ever hold anyone accountable?

[coalition_unwilling]

113. I was watching this Sunday and my jaw almost hit the floor. Of course,

Sullivan's comment was met by an almost stony silence. If Chris Matthews looks hard enough into the mirror, he'll find himself complicit (along with much of the establishment mainstream media) in war crimes and crimes against humanity.