In re: Charlton Heston:

[PCIntern]

I was going to post this in the thread where the OP vilified him mightily, but I wanted this to stand alone.

On edit: I am NOT defending Heston's NRA stance. Please do not pepper me with anti-gun posts. That is not the point of this OP. Thank you.

As someone in his mid-fifties, I grew up with Heston's films as relatively recent 'old movies', those made in the fifties, and then went to the theaters to see his newer movies. He was regarded in his motion picture days as a charismatic screen presence; few regarded him in a class with the great stage actors such as Gielgud or Olivier or the more serious film actors like Peck, Guinness, Steiger, and many many others. But thee was no question that when he appeared and spoke his lines on the Vistavision or Panavision screens, all the attention was focused on him utterly and completely. Many stars in those days had that kind of charismatic appeal and, for all of his inadequacies as discussed by the more traditional critics, was able to carry the film no matter how insipid the dialog, plot, or direction.

Imagine my disgust when he came out so vociferously for the NRA party line - that he would not enter into discussion of reasonable compromise, his lines in this issue were well-rehearsed and well-delivered and a preview of what we have learned to live with from Bush I and his minions like Rich Bond and then disgustingly evolving into this group we have been forced to endure for many years now. Many years ago, he appeared with Richard Dreyfuss on Brinkley's Sunday AM program and just trounced Dreyfuss rhetorically. I recall distinctly thinking that the Democrats and liberals had better get their act together or we would be subject to an unending period of right-wing ideologues. I was correct as it turned out, in every respect.

But paradoxically, Heston starred in vehicles which envisioned the inhumanity of man against man, and the rising up of the moral individual, occasionally at the loss of his own life and health, psychological or corporeal: Ben Hur, the protagonist in Planet of the Apes, The Omega Man, and others. the films in which he starred upbraided us against the use of slavery, of torture, of nuclear weaponry, and of biological weaponry. Although you could make a case that his NRA zealotry overshadowed his earlier work, in my most humble opinion, the reason everyone was so angry with him was that they felt betrayed by the man; that his humanism which of course, was as an actor, and possibly as an individual, was eclipsed by his Johnny-one-note stance on Guns.

[joeybee12]

1. Not to speak ill of the dead, especially I'm sure he suffered a great

deal with Alzheimer's, but the one thing I cannot forgive him for is having the NRA come to Denver shortly after Columbine. It was a sort of "in-your-face" attitude that was reprehensible. It wouldn't have killed them to postpone the meeting in light of the tragedy, and, quite frankly, it would have made the NRA seem somewhat reasonable.

[PCIntern]

2. Yes...

in no way does my post defend his NRA stance and position...even with some of the apologists here at DU.

I am and was always personally appalled by this.

[joeybee12]

7. Yeah, I won't speak ill of him...hope he has found peace...

...but I can't feel sad at his passing. I think he caused a great deal of harm in his life.

[PCIntern]

Again...

I don't care if someone speaks ill of the dead. I think that's each person's right and I've done it myself often. I am not certain why this is an issue given my OP. I was making a point that there was a duplicity, as it were, about his career and life.

[joeybee12]

15. Agreed. n/t

[jody]

4. Heston supported Dem platform "We will protect Americans' Second Amendment right to own firearms" nt

[MADem]

5. You have to wonder how much his disease influenced his thought process.

Or his own sense of what was, and wasn't, appropriate.


Get a load of Chuckie in his younger days: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3114622&mesg_id=3114705

[Mojorabbit]

14. In another posts

it was made clear that the NRA canceled most of the convention except the business part and that it was too late to totally cancel it.

[The Straight Story]

3. And still I ask - how many people has he killed with his guns?

Still looking for information on that. I am sure it has to be in the hundreds ;)

[jody]

6. Interesting question, how many have you killed? n/t

[The Straight Story]

8. none, how about you?

:)

[jody]

10. Do you support the natural, inherent, inalienable right of law-abiding citizens to keep and bear

arms for self-defense?

[The Straight Story]

20. It dosen't even have to be for self defense

they can have a piece of metal that shoots bullets for any number of reasons - hunting, self defense, fun, etc.

I am not worried about those folks, the people I am worried about are the nuts (left and right) who want to use power to dictate to me how to live.

Some of those people use guns, some use jail and fines, but the one thing they all have in common is trying to use their power to tell me how to live and to tell others how to live.

[jody]

21. The OP was about Heston's stance on RKBA. SCOTUS has heard D.C. v. Heller and will give a decision

in June.

I've read all the briefs submitted and the transcripts of the presentations to SCOTUS.

It's almost a sure thing that SCOTUS will rule that the 2nd Amendment does require government to protect the right of law-abiding citizens to keep and bear handguns for self-defense and other purposes.

In other words, RKBA is a basic right along with the other rights enumerated in the BOR and unenumerated rights protected by the 9th Amendment.

[Mudoria]

18. That would be zero....

:eyes:

[quadriga]

9. The Lawgiver will judge him

[PCIntern]

11. Self-delete..

.

[stray cat]

12. He was a major civil rights activist and he did march when it was a risky thing to do

[PCIntern]

13. Yes he did...I recall the whole crowd from

that era.

The Republicans had Reagan (no, he was never really a Dem - there's significant evidence that he was a ringer), Gene Autry, Bob Hope, and a few others. The Dems had a whole stable of stars

[angrycarpenter]

16. I remember him in Omega man

Machine gunning the mutants. Creepy as hell. It almost looked like he was enjoying it. I have no problem speaking ill of the dead if they were bad political citizens.

He helped the gun lobby turn a public safety issue into a wedge to get the conservatives elected.

[PCIntern]

17. Well....

in all fairness, the mutants were trying to kill him...in the film.

The point of Omega Man is that Biological Warfare can kill everyone, not just the enemy. SO it was a bad road to go down even during the Cold War period. It was a big anti-government/military statement in its day.

Lotsa great, humanistic actors played bad guys, and Native American killers in film. (Please note my PC-ism, despite my extraordinary impulse to say the other word)

[TomInTib]

19. He was an ACTOR, for God's sake. And a jerkoff, to boot.

He was an ACTOR.

He worked in MOVIES.

MOVIES with DIRECTORS, LIGHTING TECHS, and CINEMATOGRAPHERS and WRITERS.

The studios assigned him the token frontman role in the Civil Rights Movement.

He was fucking without merit of any sort.

I have no qualms regarding speaking ill of the dead. I just wish he had died 35 years ago.

[PCIntern]

22. OK...

you've made your point, Tom...

Now what will be written, say 35 years from now, about the stars of our present time?

My point was that there were public paradoxes concerning the man, and that this is why so many are reacting to his death with interest. I don't now anyone singing his praises on this board for his politics of the last umpteen years. I was simply commenting upon the ironies.

[TomInTib]

23. I know what you mean. Perhaps I have been a bit strident on this point.

I just know so many dumbass cracker hicks in my home State (Texas) who thought that Heston hung the effing moon. They, like so many Americans, find the line between reality and booga-booga awfully damned difficult to discern.

One of the many flaws in my character is that I bore in on the shit that I don't like, rather than giving any credit where it might be due.

And I certainly meant no offense to you, PCI. But I would sincerely hope that you would know that, by now.

And I, too, am slightly concerned about Steven Segall's legacy. Maybe he can land Heston's old gig.

Tom

[-..__...]

24. Compromising on the 2nd amendment is unacceptable.

Not yesterday, not today, not tomorrow.

Should Heston (and/or the civil rights leaders), have compromised on civil rights issues?

Should the Gay rights community compromise on marriage, social acceptance, housing and employment opportunities?

What about pro-choice people? Maybe they should be open to compromise on abortion issues?

I have a better idea... either drop the issues altogether, or fight to preserve what remains of the BOR instead of "compromising" them away.