Dear DU: why the attacks?

[Doobie Newbie]

I am not a “troll”. I want to get some feedback.

Please read the complete post before flaming. Thanks!

What is the purpose of DU? Is it to share ideas and inform, or is it a place to attack others that you might agree with only 90% of the time?

When someone disagrees, or doesn’t like a post, why do people find it necessary to insult or attack the writer? Using the f-word is not useful if you want to communicate. It doesn’t add to your argument and it is aggressive and offensive. Does it make you feel more powerful?

As I look around I see a lot of personal attacks on others and on people’s candidates. If you disagree, make an actually argument. Slang and shorthand won’t do. Be coherent and clarify your points. It takes time, but it makes for a better discussion. There is no reason to act like a Republican on this forum. It is possible to disagree and make a point without using violent language.

Use examples when you can. A blank statement like “Obama lies” will not do. If he does lie, give some examples. That way, we can research it ourselves and make up our own minds.

“Do not post personal attacks against other members of this discussion forum.”

Why do I keep seeing personal attacks?

“Do not post messages that are inflammatory, extreme, divisive, incoherent, or otherwise inappropriate.”

If you can’t make an actual point, there is no need to flame me.

[coriolis]

1. You actually bothered to read the rules!

I am amazed.
:D

[damntexdem]

39. Doobie Newbie read the rules! Start flaming!

Actually, welcome to DU -- and to Coroilis, too.

[gateley]

2. It's a heated primary

and people are very enthusiastic about their candidate. Sometimes frustration causes tempers to flare and people knee-jerk react in a way they wouldn't otherwise. That's all.

[niyad]

3. welcome to DU-- alas, there are too many days when this place

looks like FR. some people do not seem able to understand that people can actually have different opinions on people, and also do not seem willing to let the democratic process play out. seems that the sound-bite generations cannot handle anything lengthy.

[Midlodemocrat]

4. Here's a helpful hint.

Enable your profile. Seeing a disabled profile and a low count post amount guarantees that you will be called a troll.

Welcome to DU.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. I always thought that was really dumb.

If Skinner thought that hiding a profile was suspicious behaviour, I don't think he'd have made in an option at sign-up.

[Midlodemocrat]

9. And by the same token, if he thought people wouldn't get harassed for a low post count,

he'd make their count start at 1000.

Plus, some people are just suspicious by nature during the primaries.

[EFerrari]

10. Maybe he was just setting us up.

:evilgrin:

[annabanana]

11. ah jeez.... you're probably right

I'm such a sucker

[EFerrari]

13. You know what, all the posters who got mad at me

and called me a troll for being mad at John Kerry are now some of my bestest DU friends.

What a difference a few years make. :rofl:

[Midlodemocrat]

17. Wait!! You're NOT a troll?

Who knew?

:rofl:

[EFerrari]

18. I'm just biding my time.

:rofl:

[Buzz Clik]

14. Well, if you choose to offer no information, the only thing that shows is when you joined.

Why hide that?

[EFerrari]

16. We forget that when new to the board, the preferences and options

are a little confusing. merh kept telling me to read her sig line and it was months before I figured out that I had them turned off.

[Buzz Clik]

48. Newb!

:eyes:







:evilgrin:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

41. Why am I supposed to care about your undeclared gender?

:shrug:

[Buzz Clik]

50. You're the first to ask about it. You aren't coming on to me, are you?

I'm really not that kind of undeclared person.

[Subdivisions]

12. Some people do not implicity trust, nor feel safe, posting

personal info. It's been awhile since I joined, but why not just NOT fill out the profile info. The reason to hide it is if you complete the form. If you don't want too much personal info on the web, why fill it out just to then hide it?

[Midlodemocrat]

15. It's easy enough to fill out just the date you joined.

Everything else can be left blank.

[slackmaster]

30. Sounds like a stoner to me

Not necessarily a troll.

[pnwmom]

31. The OP isn't complaining that this is happening to him or herself.

The writer is correctly saying that personal attacks and flaming are happening all over DU, especially in GD-P.

Telling the writer to enable their profile sounds like a way of blaming the victim to me -- yet the person isn't even claiming to be a victim.

[Quantess]

44. Hidden profiles get on my nerves.

I like to be able to see whether someone has been tombstoned or not.

[Midlodemocrat]

49. If they've been tombstoned and they previously had a hidden profile

the profile becomes visible and you see the Disruptor gif.

[LisaM]

5. Some people don't notice their use of the F-word

I'm convinced of it (and from riding the bus in Seattle). Once you get below about 22, it seems to be a built-in part of the vocabulary! I've even heard people use it around (their own) little kids.

[EFerrari]

7. Midlo is right. Enabling the profile is your choice, of course.

I don't think of DU as a discussion board. It's more like a verbal bowling alley. You'll be fine.

[annabanana]

8. It is the silly season, m'dear...

WE have tried to contain the most rancorous ranting to the "GD: Primary" forum, where the rules have been temporarily "softened" to allow for full-throated craziness and wild affiliation. When the candidate is duly chosen, things will get back to what we consider "normal" around here.

Just to satisfy my own curiosity.. are most of the online forums you frequent MORE civil than this? Are they about anything that could be considered matters of life & death?

[Doobie Newbie]

22. I frequent Alternet, Commondreams, and Buzzflash

Those discussion are just as contentious, but there seems to be less name calling and swearing. I don't give a damn if people swear, but people use those words to replace reasoned arguments.

[Lorien]

55. I take it that you've spent some time in General Discussion: Primaries

It's become such a hostile place that I don't think that the mods can easily keep up with the nastiness flying around. Many of the personal attacks do come from trolls, but some also come from regular DUers who seem to enter that forum ONLY when they've got an ax to grind with other DUers. It's a sorry state of affairs, but it will (for the most part) be other once the primaries are over and the campaign for the general election gets fully under way.

[bryant69]

19. Well anybody who disagrees with me is clearly an idiot

So I try to correct them as angrily as possible.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Doobie Newbie]

23. I didn't see that in the rules

but I'll read them again--

There it is "respond with venem". I missed that the first time.

[bryant69]

25. I don't use venom; just anger. n/t

[pnwmom]

36. I thought you were kidding, and didn't bother with the sarcasm smilie.

Then I read your post #25, where you seem to be repeating the same thought.

I still want to think you're just kidding, but if you do think anybody who disagrees with you is clearly an idiot, who deserves to be answered with anger, then that makes you one.

[apocalypsehow]

20. The problem is someone who seems to understand DU's "dynamic" and posting flow with only 11 times up

at bat to their name. That, plus the disabled profile, is a big red flag to a lot of the old-timers. I'm relatively new, too, but I lurked for years. Perhaps that is the case with you. But to alot of the old-timers here, they've seen far too many times where it is either a banned poster returning with a sock-puppet, or a freeper trying to stir up trouble (I'm not saying you are either of these things, BTW).

Just my two cents.

[Doobie Newbie]

24. Actually, I've read hundreds of posts

so indeed, I'm not as new as you think. I'm just fed up.

[EFerrari]

27. You haven't been posting long enough to be fed up.

lol

:)

[Doobie Newbie]

28. Read what I wrote again and take it less personally

So my opinions don't count then? You aren't annoyed by all the anger flying around?

It is certainly more cantankerous here than other liberal blogging and posting sites.

[EFerrari]

32. I'm not taking anything personally. This is DU

Do I get annoyed? Sure! My family annoys me, too.

You're stepping into a culture and will either decide you want to acclimate or that you don't want to do that.

DU can be super cantankerous. It can also be loving and funny and brilliant and practical.

You really do choose your own DU adventure. Good luck to you, Doobie Newbie. :)

[fed-up]

29. no, I'm "fed-up" and many of the venomous posts are from trolls...nt

[tanyev]

21. Oh, I just love it when newbies with no profiles start scolding and lecturing.

[Doobie Newbie]

26. Being new to DU

doesn't discredit you as a human being, does it?

I didn't see that in the rules. Perhaps I'm insane? Perhaps all the name calling and swearing and hate are okay with you after you have been on a while. Do people get desensitized?

[tanyev]

34. Do you start criticizing someone's house the first time you get invited over for dinner?

I have GD: Primaries hidden so I don't have to see all those threads pop up on my latest screen. Usually I simply choose not to click on threads that look like they're going to get ugly. When I do click on those threads, then I just have to deal with it.

[LanternWaste]

35. Yes. It does.

"Being new to DU doesn't discredit you as a human being, does it?"

Yes, it does. It's not in the rules, but it's still true.

[abq e streeter]

38. Welcome; your words make sense to me

I too was flamed and personally insulted a few times when I started posting, if I dared disagree with certain people, as if a lifetime of political involvement counted for nothing compared to a post count on DU. In my case , I'd been reading DU for quite awhile, and finally felt obligated to start commenting on some of the counterproductive nastiness I started to see too much of, and like you, had a few ( but only a few) people respond with an attitude of looking down their nose at me. Because the majority of people I see posting here are reasoned and intelligent, I've stuck around and just started feeling sorry for those who feel the need to be rude to fellow progressives ( and of course, being rude to obvious trolls etc is a different matter, but I see no evidence that you're anything but a concerned progressive in what you've said today-----again, welcome, at least from me).

[Lugnut]

43. I'm hardly a newbie

Doobie Newbie is spot on. The rules haven't been softened around here. They've been abandoned.

[tanyev]

47. Then take it up with the administrators.

Or find somewhere else if it really bothers you.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

33. I think it's a little like road rage...

A number of people are so anxious to get their favorite candidate elected that they blind themselves to the fact that there are real live people writing the posts they don't agree with.

Admittedly, I haven't done an actual count; but I have a feeling the number of posters who seem to delight in initiating flame wars is a relatively small percentage of the active posters on DU. Unfortunately, like aggressive driving, anger-inciting posts can infect readers who will occasionally reply without thought, thus feeding the flames.

Sadly, these bullying posts only serve to make candidates appear less appealing. You really can catch more flies with honey...

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[pnwmom]

37. I'm not going to get defensive or suspicious simply because you're new.

If your post had been written by someone who wasn't new, most people here would be applauding it.

Welcome to DU, Doobie Newbie.

[spanone]

40. we care and we're human

[kimmerspixelated]

42. Welcome to DU!

You make some very valid statements and have every right to ask. Just like GoddessofGuiness said, it's kinda like road rage. A lot of folks get mad behind the wheel, but upon the exit of their vehicle, they really are different folks. Plus, this election is really important, which is a general understatement, but the anger should be against the rethugs! Aside from that, rudeness is everywhere, and it truly astonishes me! Maybe it is a certain lack of maturity, and even when someone is just replying without a point or conviction, there is a level of sarcasm that is maddening. I have taken the attitude of feeling sorry for those that have that nasty habit of being nasty as I think that their home life or internal structure is out of balance. But that's just my 2 cents! Cheers!

[Lugnut]

45. It is absolutely maddening.

Civility has gone out the door. It's like recess time in kindergarten.

[Lugnut]

46. Hi Doobie!

:hi: Welcome to DU.

[Mountainman]

51. If you are talking about the GD primaries thing, I would not consider that DU.

It's something straight out of the koo koo's nest.

[TheManInTheMac]

52. I've been here over a year

and haven't broken 30 posts yet. Once this primary season is over, I'll get more active with my posts. Until then, I intend to keep my hands and feet safely inside the vehicle at all times.
I wouldn't take the personal attacks personally. They aren't bad people, just very passionate, and sometimes that passion gets the better of them.

[mopinko]

53. because this is our home and we are sick of the sock puppets

peeing on the carpet.

[Thickasabrick]

54. Sometimes the "f-word" is extremely useful - especially to people

that don't like hearing the "f-word". So....welcome to DU - but enough with the fucking lectures.