I hae to interrupt the lies of General Betray-us, but can we talk about the military situation?

[Bonobo]

Old timer DU'ers... Do you remember when this "war" was actually a war? Yes, I know it was brief, but there were a few days there. Remember Baghdad Bob? Remember that Russian website that was supposedly tracking the military situation with all these details but it turned out to be lies? (or did it?)

Anyway, for the DU'ers new and old who have ANY idea WTF is going on in Iraq, I want to ask a couple of questions if I may. I think this needs to get out there a little more.

It seems to me that we are basically just holed up in the Green Zone, having left the rest of the country to be taken over by warlords, and increasingly being killed by rockets and mortars and not EVEN by making patrols outside of the GZ.

How right or wrong is the above understanding? Because if it is that bad and the trend is that they are now occupying positions outside the GZ that are allowing them to make rocket/mortar attacks with impunity -doesn't that mean that we are fucked? I suppose we can continue to project air power to keep things going for a while, but how long can the media even keep up this sham?

Let's discuss this and hopefully bring some common sense thought on this to light.

[ixion]

1. IMO, it was never a 'war', it was an illegal invasion

that has now morphed into a catastrophic set of Crimes Against Humanity.

[Bonobo]

2. I certainly accept that statement.

100% percent.

[acmavm]

3. I agree with you. Shock and Awe was nothing but a slaughter of

innocent civilians. Incompetent bastards didn't hit one 'high value' target. Just killed the usual culprits, the old people and children, the women and the civilian men. Didn't kill anyone who was part of Saddam's regime. Not one.

Talk about murderous incompetence. Depraved indifference to human life. The epitome of barbarity. Yep, that's the bush** admin and its cronies.

[NNN0LHI]

8. Not just the innocent civilians

Remember the battalions of innocent Iraqi transcripts who were blown to bits in their barracks as they slept that our media just about had a nut over as they were reporting it?

What did they do to us? Nothing. They all had friends and families and dreams just like our citizens do.

And Bush turned them all into pink mist. And America cheered.

Sickening.

Don

[acmavm]

9. That is very true as well. Hopefully I will be proven wrong and the

people that do the worst evil do get their just paybacks.

I hope it comes in my lifetime so that I can see it. I wonder what that sentiment says about me?

[Hugabear]

4. Tell the Iraqis that it was never a war

I'm sure that quite a few of them would beg to differ with your opinion. When you have bombs falling in your neighborhood, people shooting at you, soldiers kicking in your door, taking away your family members, then it's a war to you.

[Bonobo]

5. This is all rhetoric.

The point I'm making is that we are now in a deteriorating situation (I think).

Is it not clear to others?

It certainly doesn't seem to be accepted or even discussed in the media.

So...does everyone here think we are in a deteriorating situation?

[KillCapitalism]

6. The reality of the recent green zone attacks.

The reality is that this is the Tet Offensive 2.0. What else could it be with such an extreme spike in violence. The media will never tell you this though b/c it will make McCain look bad.:mad:

[stillcool]

7. I was just visiting..

the Global Policy forum: http://www.globalpolicy.org/
it is as clear to me now as it has been all along, that I can not know what the fuck is going on in Iraq. There is way too much bullshit being spewn that has no basis in fact. Every few months the dialogue changes with a shift in blame. It is always some crazy sect of Iraqi's bringing all the violence and killing to their country. The American presence is just one of observation. For 5 years. And yet the bombs that fell from the sky doubled in 2007. And we had another display of shock and awe in January.

U.S. warplanes pound southern Baghdad outskirts
Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:06pm EST
By Peter Graff

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - U.S. warplanes launched their biggest air strike in Iraq since at least 2006 on Thursday, bombarding date palm groves on Baghdad's southern outskirts with more than 40,000 pounds of bombs in a matter of minutes.
-------------------------------
"Thirty-eight bombs were dropped within the first 10 minutes, with a total tonnage of 40,000 pounds," the military said in a statement. "Each bomber passed over twice and the F-16s followed to complete the set."
----------------------
U.S. forces spokesman Maj. Winfield Danielson said Thursday's air strike was the biggest in Iraq since at least 2006. A spokeswoman for U.S. forces in central Iraq, Maj. Allayne Conway, said it was too soon to assess the damage inflicted.
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL1069138220080110?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

US Doubles Air Attacks in Iraq
By Charles J. Hanley
Associated Press
June 5, 2007
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issue ...
Four years into the war that opened with "shock and awe," U.S. warplanes have again stepped up attacks in Iraq, dropping bombs at more than twice the rate of a year ago. The airpower escalation parallels a nearly four-month-old security crackdown that is bringing 30,000 additional U.S. troops into Baghdad and its surroundings - an urban campaign aimed at restoring order to an area riven with sectarian violence. It also reflects increased availability of planes from U.S. aircraft carriers in the Persian Gulf. And it appears to be accompanied by a rise in Iraqi civilian casualties.
In the first 4 1/2 months of 2007, American aircraft dropped 237 bombs and missiles in support of
ground forces in Iraq, already surpassing the 229 expended in all of 2006, according to U.S. Air Force figures obtained by The Associated Press.
"Air operations over Iraq have ratcheted up significantly, in the number of sorties, the number of
hours (in the air)," said Col. Joe Guastella, Air Force operations chief for the region. "It has a lot to do with increased pressure on the enemy by MNC-I" - the Multinational Corps-Iraq - "combined with more carriers."
--------------------------------
Examples of attacks, as reported in the Air Force's daily summary:
-Last Friday, an Air Force F-16 fighter dropped a guided 500-pound bomb near the northern city of Tal Afar that destroyed a vehicle laden with explosives to be used as a bomb.
-The day before, an F-16 dropped a similar bomb on "an inaccessible building being used by insurgents" near Samarra, north of Baghdad, with "good effects."
-Last Wednesday, another F-16 dropped bombs on "an illegal bridge and an insurgent vehicle in Baghdad."
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/occupation/2007/0605bombardment.htm

[ensho]

10. we are also perched on a number of bases, some as big as small cities

and also perched on smaller bases, equiped as if small towns.

nevertheless - holed up in all the spots, large or small.

and all these places get attacked.

[Bonobo]

12. So why is it so hard for the MSM to get that message across?

Why are people acting so dumb?

[riderinthestorm]

11. When reporters actually speak about doing their jobs in Iraq

From my perspective when reporters actually describe doing their job, they never talk about going out "on the street" in Iraq anymore. They get their info second hand it seems, or from people brought into the Green Zone to talk to them, or from the official propagandists.

Rarely do they ever speak of taking a jaunt through the countryside to independently speak to the citizens of Iraq or check things out without the protection of a battalion around them.

This seems to indicate to me that the situation HAS deteriorated to such an extent that even seasoned reporters won't take the chance to get a scoop out there. That's a pretty big tell for me.


edit for clarity