AHOY, Fellow Drug Addicts! (That's over 85% of you)

[FlyingSquirrel]

The drug is Caffeine. The myth is that sustaining certain levels of this drug in your body is completely harmless. This myth is perpetuated by industries which rely on your addiction to the drug in order to sell their products. If you want to learn more, (a lot more), you could read the book Caffeine Blues. If you'd prefer to just read some information online, here are a couple of good places to start:

Effects of coffee and caffeine on health
Top reasons to be caffeine-free
Caffeine addiction quiz

So anyway. I've known for several years that caffeine's not good for me. I've quit several times, only to slowly begin drinking it again in greater and greater levels. At times I was an espresso junkie; currently I drink only one or two 12-oz. cups of drip coffee a day, plus some hot cocoa which has about 1/8th the amount of caffeine. This, we are often told, is a completely safe amount of caffeine to be ingesting each day. We're told this has no long-term effects on our health. We're even told that a small amount of caffeine each day can be good for us! But the more you research this subject, the more you discover that it's a complete lie.

Now before I continue, I'd like to make a few disclaimers in the hopes of not having this thread locked. First off I'm not recommending any product, and am not connected in any way with the author of the above-listed book so I would make absolutely no money if you decided to purchase it. Second, I'm not recommending any course of action for anyone, am not seeking to give or receive any medical advice, and would prefer that we confine comments in this thread to discussion of caffeine, its marketing in our country, its effects on the body which can be verified through independent research, etc.

I'm going to tell you about the experiment I am about to perform on myself. It's going to be something like "Supersize Me", except that nobody's gonna follow me around with a camera and I'm not doing it under the supervision of anyone in the medical community. So you'll have to take my word for it when I say anything about my results, and keep in mind that this is an unscientific experiment and that any other person in the world could experience different results. Once again I'm not suggesting that you follow my course of action or that self-diagnosis and/or treatment of a medical problem is something you should be doing. Go to your doctor if you're experiencing problems and follow their advice. Just keep in mind that the average doctor in this country has been snowed by the caffeine industry just like you have, and may be a coffee-drinker themself; they may not even bother to ask you if you drink the stuff, and if you bring it up they might parrot the line that a moderate amount is perfectly fine and has no long-term effects.

Ok so here I am. (Picture taken yesterday, 4/7/2008)



I'll be turning 40 in May. I'm often told that I look a lot younger than that. I certainly don't feel younger, though. I have aches and pains all over, often feel completely sluggish or fatigued. I'm not overweight (170 lb). I don't eat meat except for seafood, and occasional eggs/dairy. I try to watch my sodium intake - normally keep it around 2,400 mg or so. As stated before, I drink a "moderate" amount of caffeine, usually one 12-oz. cup per day, sometimes two, and some hot cocoa in the middle of day and towards the evening. I have an occasional chocolate bar. I also drink Teeccino, a caffeine-free herbal "coffee". I'm not a very active person, however. I walk occasionally and that's it.

Whenever I tell anyone that I have high blood pressure, the response is always complete surprise. I don't fit the profile. I'm too young, not at all overweight. But I do. I found this out when it became mandatory for me to have this checked in order to maintain my Commercial Drivers License in my state of WA. (2004). Before then, I had been told at the doctor's office that I was "borderline" and that if it got any higher they might have to look at it. In order to keep my CDL I have to be under 140/90. Last year for the first time, they would only renew my medical card for a single year instead of the normal two, because it was just below that mark and I was taking blood pressure medication (atenolol). I have since discontinued the medication (don't do this) and am not on any medication. I take 600-1200 mg of ibuprofen per day for pain, especially in my neck, shoulders and back.

I have a home blood pressure monitor recommended by my doctor - the brand is Omron. Based on multiple readings, my current blood pressure is about 151/95 which is Stage 1 Hypertension.

I also have the following symptoms which the aforementioned book claims may be related to caffeine:

Energy swings or periods of fatigue during the day
Mood swings or periods of depression during the day
Headaches
Gastrointestinal distress; cramping, diarrhea
Constipation and/or dependence on caffeine for bowel movement
Tension or stiffness in neck, shoulders, jaw, hands, legs or stomach
Insomnia (occasional)
Anxiety
Irritability, including inappropriate "fits" of anger
Involuntary movement in the leg (restless leg syndrome)
Rapid heartbeat
Wake up feeling tired
Generalized pain (back pain, stomach pain, muscle aches)
High blood pressure
Shortness of breath
Difficulty concentrating and/or memory loss
Hand tremor

So. This time I'm quitting caffeine for good. In my previous attempts, I've usually cheated - drank hot cocoa in the morning, sometimes added a bit of coffee to it. I've rationalized. I've said that I felt something was "missing" in my life. That caffeine "adds a bit of excitement." I've felt disoriented. (Now I realize that this is one of the withdrawal symptoms which I never got past. It was one of the main reasons I went back to the coffee, even though I'd passed the point where I might get a headache in the morning without it.) I'm going to quit for a full 60 days and document any changes in the above symptoms, especially my blood pressure. I'll try not to change anything else about my routine, including exercise and food intake. I am truly curious to see exactly how much of the above is related only to my moderate caffeine intake and nothing else. I'm curious to see if I can lower my blood pressure without medication, simply by removing caffeine from my life after 20+ years of consuming it. Since I like to drink hot drinks, I'll be replacing the coffee/hot cocoa with more Teeccino.

Don't try this yourself, folks. See your doctor if you have high blood pressure, or any other problems, and take whatever medication they prescribe. Do mention your caffeine intake to them and see what they say. And if you're curious to see how my little experiment turns out, feel free to add me to your buddy list so you'll see future journal entries about it. Just remember, this is my own personal experiment, probably ill-advised since I should be working with my doctor on it and taking blood pressure medication, and that your own results could be very different. Nothing I've said should be construed as any kind of medical advice, and please don't add your own medical advice to this thread.

Bye for now!

FS

[stellanoir]

1. Green tea may become your friend.

It really helped me.

[FlyingSquirrel]

3. I've heard many people say that.

I've tried it, don't really like it all that much. I seem to recall that there is a small amount of caffeine in it, and I'm going to be trying to go completely caffeine-free (not even a small amount). I think I've seen "Decaf" green tea before, but I'm just gonna go with the Teeccino because I like the taste and it is made from stuff that never had caffeine in it which had to be removed through various processes.

[stellanoir]

7. Green tea has 20-30% of the caffeine in coffee.

The dosages on both counts vary wildly.

But there is no accounting for taste really.

Go with what you like.

Good luck.

[eShirl]

11. the L-theanine amino acid in green tea moderates or counteracts the effects of the caffeine

somehow

[Lars39]

37. I had to add some honey to get used to the taste of green tea.

After a while I stopped adding honey. One of the benefits of green tea(at least to me)is that I feel like I'm drinking something to wake me up, but if I skip it I'm still alert, and I don't get the headache.

[backscatter712]

2. I can quit any time I want to! ;)

I just don't want to...

WHERE'S MY COFFEE?!!!! :argh:

[Cleita]

4. Not I. All I drink with caffeine it is one cup of tea or two a day,

not enough for "Mr. Coffee nerves" to attack me. However, my husband and I had to do a near intervention with his daughter though, who although she neither smokes, drinks alcohol or uses recreational drugs, was bouncing all over the walls at one time because of the buckets of coffee she drank a day. She would get absolutely hysterical over the smallest issue.

We had to point out to her what she was doing to herself and we took her out to breakfast to talk to her before she had a chance to get a caffeine overload for the day. She has since cut down on her coffee (mornings only) and drinks non-caffeinated colas and tea at other times. It has made her a more relaxed and pleasant person to be around.

[Jokerman]

5. I'm currently in recovery.

Thanks to high blood pressure and Gastrointestinal distress.

Actually, I was diagnosed with high blood pressure, I quit drinking coffee and it went back to normal.

[cboy4]

6. All of the "symptoms" you listed (TMI, by the way), can

be used to describe many of the people who post in the GD: P

Especially the inappropriate fits of anger.

[keep_it_real]

8. Caffeine aggravates Insulin Resistance Syndrome - that's deep

Caffeine aggravates Insulin Resistance Syndrome. Obesity, high blood pressure, elevated cholesterol and cellular insensitivity to insulin are part of a syndrome that can lead to the development of Type 2 diabetes. Caffeine contributes to insulin resistance and impairs glucose tolerance. 41 million Americans are considered to be pre-diabetic and are advised to adapt healthy lifestyle and dietary habits to avoid progressing to type 2 diabetes.

http://www.teeccino.com/motivation.aspx#weight

[Jokerman]

39. Wow. I wonder if the teeccino people can back that up.

I know at least one doctor who would disagree about the impact of caffeine on people with diabetes.

[InvisibleTouch]

9. I've found that coffee doesn't really wake me up anymore.

I'm pretty habituated, though I usually only have one cup in the morning. I can, however, have a cup of coffee before bed and go right to sleep without any problems. My grandmother is the same way, at age 92. I do look forward to my morning fix, though, and find the day gets off on the wrong foot if I miss it. I get the typical withdrawal headache if I do have to go a day or two without caffeine, but that sorts itself out again in a few days. Thereafter, if I've been without coffee for a few days and *then* have a cup, I notice a wake-up effect. But it's short-lived, and I habituate pretty fast again.

Good luck with your experiment. I may have to try it myself some day, but as yet I'm not sufficiently motivated. :)

Green tea has caffeine too, btw, just not as much.

[waiting for hope]

10. Good Luck FlyingSquirrel!

I gave up drinking alcohol about 15 years ago (ex-bartender in my younger days) but my morning coffee is still a staple. I know that on the weekends when I don't consume as much during the week, I'll get a headache. I've been cutting down gradually, but working full time and having two kids, I can't see me cutting it out completely. I wish you all the best!

[Bethesda Home]

12. Who are you going to believe?

Did Folger's, Maxwell House or Starbuck's fund this research?

I dunno.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7326839.stm

[FlyingSquirrel]

35. Notice that they admit it's a drug.

I won't argue whether or not it can have benefits in certain instances to certain people. I will point out that it was a short-term, 12-week study and did not appear to address the effects of caffeine on the body over a much longer term such as 20 years.

[Quantess]

13. My name is quantessd and I am an addict.

Ever since I was 14 years old, I drink coffee each morning.

But I disagree that coffee is unhealthy. Studies have come out lately, supporting health benefits of coffee. Coffee is full of antioxidants, for example. My blood pressure was last measured 2 weeks ago at 97/62 which has more to do with regular exercise than coffee intake.

[keep_it_real]

14. Stop drinking coffee over two years ago; had head ace for month

[Quantess]

17. Was it worth it?

Why did you stop?

[keep_it_real]

19. Yes, it was very worth it.

I was getting head aces even when drinking coffee so I just quit. I never in my life thought I could live without coffee but it has not been a problem. I drink a quart of seltzer water in the morning at work and I'm good to go.

[Warpy]

15. There is a difference between dependence and addiction

Please learn it.

People who drink a lot of coffee are dependent on caffeine but they are not addicted to it.

[FlyingSquirrel]

18. Dependence, addiction

Splitting hairs IMO. If you have withdrawal symptoms from something which has been classified as a drug, that's addiction to me.

http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/48/7/611?ck=nck

"Withdrawal symptoms were headaches, drowsiness, and fatigue. The major adverse effect from self-administration was tremulousness. The occurrence of headaches on substitution of decaffeinated coffee prospectively predicted subsequent self-administration of caffeine. These results indicate that some coffee drinkers exhibit signs of a caffeine dependence, ie, they self-administer coffee for the effects of caffeine, have withdrawal symptoms on cessation, and experience adverse effects."

Like the author of "Caffeine Blues", I'm not really interested in arguing whether it's addiction or 'dependence'.

[Akoto]

21. Ask anyone in pain management whether there's a difference ...

They will likely have a different opinion. :)

[FlyingSquirrel]

32. I won't argue too much about this

but the pain associated with caffeine withdrawal is a pain that, for the most part, is created by the caffeine in the first place. After a period of time freeing yourself from caffeine, you no longer get the caffeine headaches. Whereas with pain medications, usually there's a type of pain that was already present in the body before you administered the pain medication.

Anyway I'd rather not be either addicted OR dependent on a drug if I can avoid it. It's not quite the same as being, say, dependent on food.

[Warpy]

33. No, there is a chasm between them.

Please learn about them. Not doing so will continue the silly posts confusing the two.

[FlyingSquirrel]

36. There is a lot of resistance to the suggestion that caffeine could have serious

long-term effects even when taken in "moderate" amounts. I understand this. I also understand that there's a difference between dependence and addiction. I entitled this thread the way I did to get attention. But I'm not much interested in the argument over whether most Americans are "addicted" or merely "dependent" on caffeine. I'm more interested in the long-term effects of this drug which many find it hard to live without. Whether that's because they're "addicted" or have become "dependent" is just not that important to me. Either way the result is the same. And I believe that the caffeine industry is purposely misleading the public in the same way that the cigarette industry did.

[Cooley Hurd]

16. I was a caffeine junkie all the way up to my nervous breakdown...

What broke me of it was a sincere desire to feel better, calmer, more at peace. I'm still a coffee drinker (3 cups a day, max), but have eliminated all other caffeinated products from my daily intake.

5 years after that "breakdown," and I'm doing GREAT. I cannot emphasize enough the difference reduced caffeine intake has made.:thumb sup:

[FlyingSquirrel]

20. Three 6-oz. cups or 12-oz. cups?

The coffee industry has defined a cup of coffee as 5 or 6 oz., which reduces the amount of caffeine mg. per cup for purposes of various studies they can then quote. But for most of us, a mug of coffee has 12-14 oz.

Good job reducing your caffeine intake. I believe that I may be one of the 20% of Americans who are "caffeine-sensitive", so that a smaller amount of caffeine affects me more than others. It may also be true that the length of time that you've been drinking the caffeine increases the effects on your body. Rather than developing a tolerance for it, you may be developing an INTOLERANCE - sort of like how allergies build up over time.

[Cooley Hurd]

23. Just regular-sized cups at home in the AM...

...if I drink any coffee outside of my house, it's decaf.:hi:

[Quantess]

22. Maybe you don't eat enough fruits, vegetables, and whole grains?

I'm wondering if it's a starchy, meaty, fatty diet that is the culprit.

[FlyingSquirrel]

25. It's true that I don't eat as healthily as I could.

And I also am not getting enough exercise. However, eliminating caffeine is a very simple thing I can do, so I'm starting with that. I have kind of a scientific mind, so I like to do just one thing at a time and see the effects of that one thing with no other changes.

[hyphenate]

24. Depending on whether you

have that little part of your brain that seems to create an addictive personality, you might be able to shake it easy. I gave up my caffeine intake some 15 years ago, and never got a headache, shakes or anything else. Some people can do it, others can't.

I'll have iced tea when I go out, preferring, of course, the decaffeinated kind, but most places don't have it. So I have to decide whether it's worth drinking it or if I want to sleep that night. :)

At home, I don't touch caffeine at all.

It might be easier than you think.

As an aside: my aunt drank about 10 cups of coffee a day, smoke at least a pack of cigs a day, and was an alcoholic. She died at the age of 61, but had been hospitalized repeatedly beginning in her 40s for angina and heart disease. So, yeah, caffeine can contribute to the deterioration of health, but it isn't the only factor as you said--it just doesn't help.

[Quantess]

29. I think whether you get a headache depends on how much caffiene you're used to getting daily.

I only drink about 4 to 6 cups per day, so I can skip a day without getting a headache. But years ago, when I was drinking at least 40 oz daily, I'd get a headache if I didn't get some caffiene by early afternoon.

[FlyingSquirrel]

31. That must be 4 to 6 "5-oz. cups"

It's so annoying that we have to define how big a cup is for purposes of discussion. Thank the coffee-industry for defining a cup as being much smaller than what most people drink in a single mug of coffee. They're using, as someone who shall not be named might say, "Fuzzy Math."

[Quantess]

34. Yeah, it's confusing. I meant 4 to 6 cups measured by the lines on the coffee pot at home.

When I was major caffiene addict, I was drinking the equivalent of 2 Starbuck's venti coffees daily. I'm thinking that's 44 ounces or so. But of course I never measured how much I actually drank, so it could be even more than that...

[LeftyMom]

26. Think about how much gets sold to kids!

It really bothers me to see kids drinking sodas with both so much sugar and added stimulants in them. No f'n wonder they're all on drugs to calm them down, they're sucking down drugs that wire them up all day long.

I looked it up. The average American kid drinks 2 cans of soda a day.* That's somewhere between 0 and 100 mg of caffeine, 37 in a typical cola, so figure about 70 mg of caffeine/day, and 20 teaspoons of sugar. Just from soda. More if they drink a relatively high caffeine drinks like Mountain Dew (55 mg), coffee drinks from Starbucks (some have over 300 mg) or "energy drinks" (80-300+ mg) or if they get more from dietary sources like chocolate (1 oz of dark chocolate is 20 mg.)

Now keep in mind, 300 mg is the dose generally considered safe in adults. Based purely on body weight, assuming no greater sensitivity or increased need for caution, grade school age kids are getting pretty close to the safe maximum dosage if they only drink the average amount of soda. High schoolers who indulge in coffee drinks or energy drinks are probably well over what's prudent.

*It's not a purely American problem either. A study on obesity in Mexico, which is on pace to overtake the US as the fattest country on earth, found the average Mexican two year old drinks half a can of Coke a day.

[FlyingSquirrel]

28. We don't let our kids have caffeine or soft drinks

Except on very rare occasions we'll let 'em have a single can of non-caffeinated soda.

[Firespirit]

27. I'm a hardcore Type A personality.

I'd get severely depressed without stimulants, and in fact the two periods of my life when I wasn't drinking caffeine (alcohol instead :(), I was so depressed as to be suicidal. I do have high blood pressure, which was why I quit those times and started the "evening beer to relax" thing. But I think the risk to my life and health is greater from depression than high blood pressure. So, eh. If I die at 50 from a stroke, at least I won't be morose for years.

I hate that caffeine reacted badly with you, though. If something doesn't work out for you, no one has the right to push it on you.

[FlyingSquirrel]

30. Depression can be a withdrawal symptom from caffeine

It may take a lot longer than most people think to really get your body back into balance after years of caffeine. But I know what you're talking about, I've been depressed a lot of my life and it sucks. Lately I have been much better. I also do the "evening beer to relax" or two, and I'm thinking that I may be able to reduce my alcohol intake after a while of not drinking caffeine.

[Dr Fate]

38. Good luck-you can do it! n/t

n/t

[FlyingSquirrel]

40. Thanx

I have quit before but never for long. The disoriented feeling always brings me back to it. This time I know that it's a withdrawal symptom and that it takes longer than a couple of weeks for the body to really adjust. It could take at least 2 months especially when you consider the length of time I've been drinking caffeine - regardless of the fact that it's in "moderation", we're talking long-term damage here.

[spanone]

41. quit the ciggies quit the booze, don't take my bean

by the way, my blood pressure is fab

[AlCzervik]

42. Good Luck! I stopped eating meat 3 months ago including eggs but i still drink coffee

and i have never felt better in my life, blood pressure is down and i finally hit my goal weight, i could give up coffee but i won't, it's all i have left.

[Stinky The Clown]

43. Espresso delivers **less* caffeine than regular coffee

The flavor is concentrated, but not the caffeine. The steaming process used to make espresso is actually the very same process by which they start to decaffeinate coffee.

[baldguy]

44. .

[RedCappedBandit]

45. The double standard this country has regarding drug usage

is despicable.