Should the U.S. be banned from The Olympics?

[Orwellian_Ghost]

Let's criticize the US war criminals first, whose horrific crimes dwarf those of the Chinese. After we assign blame and punish the criminals responsible for Iraq, the Vietnam War, countless US atrocities in South and Central America etc., we can discuss wrongdoing by the Chinese government, which pales in comparison.

Maybe the U.S. should be banned from the Olympics for War Crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan?

:shrug:

[Horse with no Name]

1. yes.

We have lost any moral authority to criticize any other country for their crimes against humanity.

[Cant trust em]

2. Not sure if we should be banned, but

there should certainly be protests against us when we land in Beijing. Unless a democrat in November changes our foreign policy we shouldn't be awarded the Chicago olympics in 2016.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. I can't see why more people don't see the suggested boycott as hypocritical

... and racist.

[Redbear]

6. It would be hypocritcal for Bush, but not for America.

Bush is protested in foreign countries all the time.

[spoony]

Precisely.

America is more, and better, than our current government, and should not be silent on these matters.

[girl gone mad]

31. There were quite a few..

Chinese Americans at the protest in SF today. Are you calling them racist?

[stillcool]

4. One would think so..

[sam sarrha]

5. important Stats missing.. the "Extreme Birth Defects" caused by the 1000 tons of Depleted Uranium

dumped in Iraq.. i hear about 16% of births are Extremely deformed, i suspect many many more are miscarried..

Google: 'Extreme birth defects iraq'... please note there are extremely graphic photos of birth defects that we caused in these sites, with weapons of mass distruction.. that will contenue to cause extreme birth defects for hundreds of millions of years

here is an article with no photos...

there is a link without photos
http://www.wholeithaca.info/tcgp/2003/03/03-0653-Depleted_Uranium_and_Extreme_Birth_Defects.html
there is a link photos in this page
they contain graphic photos if birth defects caused by the Comander in Chief:George Bu$h's weapons of mass destruction

this is a search page.. containing many links with photos of birth defects http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=extreme+birth+defects+iraq&btnG=Google+Search

[dysfunctional press]

7. of course not.

the olympics is supposed to be about the athletes, not politics.

sheesh...:eyes:

[Mike Daniels]

8. If you go by human rights as reasons to ban a country from participating,

say good bye to Cuba, most (if not all) of Africa, any country with an Islamic government, the communist-led countries in Asia, a good portion of former-Soviet republics and some of Central and South America. Hell, say goodbye to Australia for their past offenses, Ireland and Great Britian for the whole IRA back and forth, etc.

Might as well cancel the Olympics altogether because using just the last few years as elimination criteria you'd probably lose about 2/3 of the participating countries.

[hughee99]

10. Go Luxembourg!

It will be a tough battle for the gold count with Sweden and Fiji.

[PVnRT]

14. Sweden - Vikings, they're out

We must go back through all time to convict everyone.

[LiberalFighter]

9. I rather that the Olympics was banned from the US.

Olympics is not the same what it use to be.

[Romulox]

11. You're not a history buff, are you? "whose horrific crimes dwarf those of the Chinese"

Start reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward

:eyes:

[Mike Daniels]

12. The poster probably thinks Russia under Stalin was less brutal than the US as well

[Better Believe It]

15. The USA Was Better?

So do you think the United States was a picnic for Black people before Reconstruction?

And how about the period following Reconstruction?

Come to think about, how about today?

It's hardly a picnic yet for most Black people!

[Mike Daniels]

17. I'd say Russia and China individually put more people underground

during their purge years than the US has in its entire existance.

The US has some black spots on its history but to even try to make us equivalent to Russia or China shows a shocking ignorance of history.

[stimbox]

18. I call bullshit on that.

The U.S.A. and Capitalism have killed way more people.

[Zynx]

30. Ha! That's a good one. Mao alone is responsible for 50 million.

Stalin is responsible for at least 20 million. The two of them have probably in the neighborhood of 10-20 million flat-out executed for political offenses. Add up the rest of the world outside of Nazi Germany and you don't get that.

The US government has its fair share of blood, but it pales in comparison to Communist China.

[stimbox]

36. Over inflated numbers. Knock a few 0's off and then we'll talk. n/t

[Zynx]

40. Stalin's 20 million is pretty widely accepted adding the famine and the purges together

along with those who died in the labor camps. 1 million is for those actually executed. I took a course where we studied the Great Leap Forward and its effects. 50 million is not an absurd guess. 20 million is conservative for Mao and that relates to just the Great Leap Forward. His political executions are extremely numerous over the years.

[stimbox]

53. Anti-communists tend to exaggerate the numbers.

Adding in famines and stuff like that just inflates the numbers.

I'm not saying that these guys weren't murderers.

I tend to be skeptical of the sources and their agenda.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

37. Not even close

It's really not the point to compare numbers if we take the history of the US and China over the last 500 years the numbers tilt tremendously towards the US as the greatest purveyor of violence in the world.

Now if we want to be a bit more recent with our history and use say just the last 40 years the US death toll easily exceeds the rest of the world combined.

Now lets keep in mind the many dozen "internecine-civil conflicts" that are funded, fueled and armed by the US.

This is not debatable the history is in plain sight.

In any case the greater point in this instance is not only the blatant hypocrisy by the US at even hinting towards a boycott but also the terrible fawning that is currently occuring by the so-called "progressive" comunity over Tibet when we hear nothing about Somalia, The Congo, Haiti- to name a few- which make Tibet look like a walk in the park.

You might also look into the role the NED plays in the "Free Tibet" movement as it's quite relevant.

Just consider for a moment that Bush, Limbaugh, The State Department and other far right elements are pushing this Free Tibet and demonization of China.

Does that not give you pause at the least?

[Pavulon]

42. Talk about wrong numbers

your sig line it the spawn of a survey lacking stratification and where n = 1500 out of a population of 26 million. Just dont push that on anyone who had to sit through a college level statistics course.

China and russia have killed tens of millions. In the last 40 years wars you are wrong. War in DPRC killed many more than the US has.

I dont think you understand how cheap life is in some parts of the world.

Communist China is an oppressor nation. It is the height of ignorance to turn against a cause because the current administration endorses it.

Next people will be advocating ignoring aids in africa.

You have nothing to support the US as the "greatest purveyor of violence" position. The US payed in blood twice to stop European megadeath.

[Zynx]

43. Bush has done far from pushing a demonization of China.

He has been one of the greatest China coddlers in our history. I think that gives me more pause.

Also, I do not subscribe to the "my enemy's enemy is my friend" crap.

[girl gone mad]

47. You're way off base.

If we only count the death toll from female infanticide, China has us beat.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. I'll see your Cultural Revolution and raise you Genocide of the Native Americans.

Didn't Dearborn, Michigan use to be Patowatomi country?

[girl gone mad]

38. Why compare crimes of our past..

to current Chinese atrocities?

This protest is about modern policies.

[girl gone mad]

34. Yes, a very bizarre statement by the OP.

None of our recent atrocities is quite the moral equivalence of the mass genocide of female babies over the last 30 years, just for starters.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

51. Whoa

How about the slaughter of 2-3 million Vietnameses for starters.

And what about the US having slaughtered at least that in Iraq over the last 15 years and still counting.

We could go on and on. But that wasn't the point.

[girl gone mad]

58. 30 million+ dead female infants in China.

Killed because of China's one baby policy and senseless gender discrimination. Now a demographic time bomb as whole cities of poor men, unable to find brides, spring up. 30 million men who have no prospects for love, family or happiness.

You're hatred of America has blinded you to reality.

[stimbox]

59. "You're hatred of America has blinded you to reality."

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[girl gone mad]

64. It's like some people think that America..

has a lock on human oppression. We may be good at it, but we're not number one.

[PVnRT]

13. Everyone should be banned

The Russians should be banned for war crimes in Afghanistan, too. And the Chinese in Tibet. And the Beglians in Congo. And the French in Indochina. And the Spanish for....everywhere.

[EFerrari]

16. There has to be a way to protest the government war crimes

without punishing the people or the athletes. :shrug:

[varelse]

62. I think there is

if you go after the corporate sponsors who stand to gain millions in sales from advertising and endorsements.

[John Kerry VonErich]

19. It's goddamn sports, not politics.

nt

[malaise]

22. Only for the athletes - it's always been politics and business for

the IOC, governments and corporations.

[malaise]

20. Both the US and Britain

for crimes against humanity.

Thanks Orwellian_Ghost.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3132946

add thread link.

[HEyHEY]

23. Maybe we shouldn't shut up about ANY countries wrongdoings

It's such a distractive waste of time to say, "Well, the USA sucks too." Yes, we know the US is involved in bad shit as well, that doesn't mean we ignore China when we have a chance to bring some attention to china.

[malaise]

24. No start at home n/t

[HEyHEY]

25. People have already started at home

What do you call all of these anti-war protests? By your measure we should shut up until things in the US are solved. So, by your measure the people who showed up today in SF to protest should be doing what for an hour?
You talk about China, US and such like they're different things. To me, they're all the same. Bad is bad.

[Zynx]

32. I take it you think we should ignore Darfur then?

[Pithlet]

28. I know. I don't get that argument, myself.

We're supposed to just withdraw into our shells and not give a shit about anyone outside our borders? I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous.

[spoony]

29. Hear hear, well put

[MonkeyFunk]

26. Don't be daft

[Orwellian_Ghost]

27. Don't be hypocritical

Either we are consistent in our application of the essential case for why one country or another should be involved on any level or we are hypocrites.

Maybe the games could be permanently stationed in Pleasantville.

[cynatnite]

33. Well, if it was a political event like a summit...

yeah, I would agree.

Since it's a sporting event and not political...nope. Stupid idea.

[brentspeak]

35. Why are you singling out the U.S.?

There's a whole ton of nations that are mulling not participating in the opening ceremonies.

Also, read up on the history of China. You'll discover that countless millions of Chinese have perished at the hands of their own various governments.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

41. Who's driving it?

The US is driving this movement to boycott.

Also who is most actively involved in war crimes all around the world?

The answer is easy and self-evident.

Of course the UK and Canada and Australia, to name a few should be banned if we are to be consistent.

Quite familiar with much of the history of China. Thanks.

[brentspeak]

45. The U.S. is driving the movement to boycott????

Considering that a) the German chancellor has announced she won't attend the Olympics; b) the Polish prime minister has said he won't attend the Olympics; c) the president of the Czech Republic has said he won't attend the Olympics; and d) the French president has said that he might not attend the Olympics, you've got a tall order to back up your bizzaro claim that "The US is driving the movement to boycott."

[Zynx]

49. Don't confuse a good anti-US argument with facts.

[Zynx]

48. Absolutely not true. Europe started this in earnest before we did.

To say anything else is such nonsense.

[stimbox]

54. The NED and their front groups are behind all of the protests. n/t

[Orwellian_Ghost]

57. We have a winner

I don't get how people can be so distrustful of the US media and yet when the US media is blaring a certain thing on it's megaphones folks will compartmentalize and for the moment ignore their healthy scepticism and accept at face value what that once dishonest source is telling them.

How many people know or will even investigate what the NED is doing in Tibet?

[girl gone mad]

52. You are "quite familiar" with the history of China, yet..

you choose to relentlessly defend it?

[Orwellian_Ghost]

56. Where did you see that?

Please point to one post where I defended China.

Please re-read every single one of my posts on this and then accept and admit that nowhere have I or would I defend China. That is not what is being discussed in fact I have not seen a single post from anyone defending China though they may be out there.

Your post is completely off-base.

Do you not see the hypocrisy?

Are you familiar with The National Endowment for Democracy?

[leftchick]

39. I totally agree

the hypocrisy is astounding.

[Doctor Cynic]

44. If so, then only Iceland, Sweden, and Finland should be allowed to compete.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

46. Yes

Can you imagine how long it would take to Finnish the steeplechase?

Pun intended.

[Zynx]

50. Sweden has some questionable history if you look back at their eugenics movement.

Pretty freaky stuff: http://www.infowars.com/articles/science/eugenics_sweden_probe_dark_history.htm

[stimbox]

55. This should be a poll! n/t

[AteAlien]

60. I don't believe in banning countries from the Olympics, but

since the US is not a nation, but a Corporate Conglomerate, I would have no problem with it.

[zorahopkins]

61. Not Just The Olympics

The US should of course be banned from the Olympics.

The Olympics are where the civilized nations of the world get together to compete.

The US has shown, by its unconscienable actions in Iraq and elsehwere, that it is outside the norms of civilized nations.

But the US should also lose its seat on the UN Security Council.

The US should lose its vote in the UN General Assembly.

The US should be kicked out of NATO.

All decent nations should immediately sever their diplomatic ties with Washington.

Washington is in the grips of a rogue regime that lies and wages murderous wars of occupation. It is a pariah.

And it should be treated as such.

[varelse]

63. That's something the rest of the world would need to decide

we can't exactly ban ourselves, although there is a good argument for it.

[Bakunin]

65. Zorahopkins

the USkkk IS NATO. Kicking them out of Nato would be like telling Mo, Larry and Curly they cant be in the Three Stooges anymore. No more NATO would be good news for Europe however.