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Condi and Top Advisors OK'd Torture From Inside the White House: "Its Your Baby.. Go Do It."

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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 05:53 PM
Original message
Condi and Top Advisors OK'd Torture From Inside the White House: "Its Your Baby.. Go Do It."
Edited on Wed Apr-09-08 05:56 PM by K Gardner
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/LawPolitics/story?id=4583256&page=1

Sources: Top Bush Advisors Approved 'Enhanced Interrogation'
Detailed Discussions Were Held About Techniques to Use on al Qaeda Suspects

By JAN CRAWFORD GREENBURG, HOWARD L. ROSENBERG and ARIANE de VOGUE
April 9, 2008

The so-called Principals who participated in the meetings also approved the use of "combined" interrogation techniques -- using different techniques during interrogations, instead of using one method at a time -- on terrorist suspects who proved difficult to break, sources said.

Highly placed sources said a handful of top advisers signed off on how the CIA would interrogate top al Qaeda suspects -- whether they would be slapped, pushed, deprived of sleep or subjected to simulated drowning, called waterboarding.

The high-level discussions about these "enhanced interrogation techniques" were so detailed, these sources said, some of the interrogation sessions were almost choreographed -- down to the number of times CIA agents could use a specific tactic.

The advisers were members of the National Security Council's Principals Committee, a select group of senior officials who met frequently to advise President Bush on issues of national security policy.

At the time, the Principals Committee included Vice President Cheney, former National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Secretary of State Colin Powell, as well as CIA Director George Tenet and Attorney General John Ashcroft.

Torture Memo: No Rights for TerroristsMemo Seen As 'An Exercise of Sheer Power'Why Did White House Wait to Release Memo?As the national security adviser, Rice chaired the meetings, which took place in the White House Situation Room and were typically attended by most of the principals or their deputies.

Contacted by ABC News today, spokesmen for Tenet, Rumsfeld and Powell declined to comment about the interrogation program or their private discussions in Principals Meetings. Powell said through an assistant there were "hundreds of meetings" on a wide variety of topics and that he was "not at liberty to discuss private meetings."

The White House also declined comment on behalf of Rice and Cheney. Ashcroft could not be reached for comment today. (Ashcroft reportedly said: "Why are we discussing this in the WHITE HOUSE? History will not look kindly on us.") Critics at home and abroad have harshly criticized the interrogation program, which pushed the limits of international law and, they say, condoned torture. Bush and his top aides have consistently defended the program. They say it is legal and did not constitute torture.

"I can say that questioning the detainees in this program has given us the information that has saved innocent lives by helping us stop new attacks here in the United States and across the world," Bush said in a speech in September 2006.

In interview with ABC's Charles Gibson last year, Tenet said: "It was authorized. It was legal, according to the Attorney General of the United States."

But this is the first time sources have disclosed that a handful of the most senior advisers in the White House explicitly approved the details of the program. According to multiple sources, it was members of the Principals Committee that not only discussed specific plans and specific interrogation methods, but approved them.


<snip>

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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. War.Crime.Nation.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. It literally made me sick to my stomach to listen to this and know this discussion took place inside
the White House. There are no words.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. and that piece of shit Ashcroft just wanted "plausible deniability"
Edited on Wed Apr-09-08 06:14 PM by Solly Mack
"Then-Attorney General Ashcroft was troubled by the discussions. He agreed with the general policy decision to allow aggressive tactics and had repeatedly advised that they were legal. But he argued that senior White House advisers should not be involved in the grim details of interrogations, sources said. "



I, personally, don't hold the WH in high regard. Never have..aside from a historical POV.
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. I agree! NT
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. My America does not torture.
These are NAZI and SOVIET tactics, applied by the nutjobs who are their ideological, spiritual and physical heirs.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. HOW can this administration still be in office? nt
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Off topic, but I'm watching Biden right now on Hardball and missing him bad, Gately !
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. On YouTube, I watched
clips of the three shows he was on this morning. I missed him so bad it HURT!

He is truly unique in that he EXPLAINS the situation to us (rather than just pat answers), and answers the questions point blank without equivocating.

But you know that. :7

:hi:

PS -- a link to the vids is in the Joe Biden group if you missed them.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. I'm going to go check it out, thanks for posting them !
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
5. No wonder Powell has remained silent despite the animosity
that appears to exist between him and the rest of the criminals. To speak out would mean admitting to human rights violations.
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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. It's too late for Powell, he's a charter member of the club.
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. From My Lai to Our Lie. Powell is as dirty as the rest of these. n/t
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
7. The tactics at Abu Ghraib were thought out in detail - and the sick bastards
said it was just a "college prank".
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jimshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
11. This part blows me away...
"It was authorized. It was legal, according to the Attorney General of the United States."
Which AG are they talking about? Ashcroft? Gonzalez? Dr. Mengele?
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Ashcroft... who reportedly had a MAJOR issue with these meetings being held IN the WH. That
sick fuck knew.. knew when he was sitting there approving each torturous act, that he would go down in history as a monster.
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. Hmmm...
...apparently it was John Yoo.

Not that he was ever actually the Attorney General. But apparently his legal opinions held the same weight with this crowd as if he was.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
12. War Crimes- CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE- We are a signatory
Have agreed as follows:

Part I

Article 1


For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.
This article is without prejudice to any international instrument or national legislation which does or may contain provisions of wider application.


Article 2

Each State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction.
No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.
An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture.


Article 3

No State Party shall expel, return ("refouler") or extradite a person to another State where there are substantial grounds for believing that he would be in danger of being subjected to torture.
For the purpose of determining whether there are such grounds, the competent authorities shall take into account all relevant considerations including, where applicable, the existence in the State concerned of a consistent pattern of gross, flagrant or mass violations of human rights.


Article 4

Each State Party shall ensure that all acts of torture are offences under its criminal law. The same shall apply to an attempt to commit torture and to an act by any person which constitutes complicity or participation in torture.
Each State Party shall make these offences punishable by appropriate penalties which take into account their grave nature.>>>>>>>snip

U.S. Senate ratified the United Nations Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (CAT) on October 27, 1990, President Clinton did not deposit the United States instrument of ratification of the Convention with the United Nations Secretary General until October 21, 1994. The United States' obligations under the Convention Against Torture took effect 30 days later, on November 20, 1994.

More:http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cat.html
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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
13. as if we didn't know it, this kinda makes it official
absolutely no regard for law whatsoever. Sociopathic megalomaniacs, all of them

Our country has been subjected to "The Invasion of the Body Snatchers." The inhuman creatures move amongst us, and they took over the White House.

And we actually think we will get them out of power by using "due process?"

Ha!


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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Exactly.. I was worried about the 2008 election, now I'm WORRIED.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
14. The on-air story absolutely would *not* use the word "torture."
My husband got kinda tired of listening to me scream "say it!" every time they said "enhanced interrogation."

At least it's getting reported on the MSM now. Will anyone notice?
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. I honestly think *most* people tune it out.. it's too terrible, too unthinkable, too much to
comprehend; the same reason so many people just tune out Iraq. We are a nation in denial, heads in the sand.. until they come for us.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. Well, I can understand the *urge* to tune it out
Except when I'm working or reading a good book, I mostly just brood about what's become of us.....
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bluesmail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
19. as a DU'er said, they've got ALL their men in place
yes indeed
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
22. The Scowl Mistress in her B & D gear
Wonder if she joined the others at the Commander AWOL Bush White House in their Training Sessions with Jeff Gannon to prepare for this amoral, Anti-Christian official republicon policy of torture?

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bushmeister0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. OGM, look at those boots! No wonder nobody takes us seriously anymore.
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