And your opinion would be...? (A Homeless Story)

[IdaBriggs]

This is a true story.

I know a man who is currently homeless. He is not someone I like or respect. He lost his (first) wife because he was physically abusive to her, and she finally left him when he started hitting her while she was holding their (then) two month old baby.

That baby is now an eleven year old boy. The mother works a lot, and has "issues" when it comes to standing up to the man. He is a bully, and she is kind of a wimp because she is afraid of him even after all of these years. She is someone I care about.

The "homeless" situation for the man is a recent development, and occurred with the ending of his third marriage. He went to his ex-mother-in-law's house to pick up his son for the night, and mentioned that since he was now homeless, the two of them would be sleeping in his car. Grandma was horrified, and refused to let him leave. Her daughter wasn't answering the phone, and Grandma ended up letting her (ex) son-in-law stay the night with her grandson rather than have the grandson (eleven years old) spend the night in a car. It also turned out that "homeless man" is currently driving around without a license, and was nearly hauled off to jail for doing so recently, but a police officer was kind and didn't, because his eleven year old son was in the car. One of his "ex" family members (the sister who decked him when he threatened to get physical with his then-wife in front of her all those years ago) loaned him $500 to clean up that mess "because of the nephew."

There has already been some estrangement between the Grandmother and her daughter, and this is exacerbating the situation, while the two sisters are also having some problems because of the loan, which is understandable because this man used to BEAT HER, and her family, who is supposed to be on her side, are "rescuing him" from his bad decisions. Of course the family is trying to watch out for the eleven year old's interests, because he loves his dad, and wants to spend time with him.

(Did I mention that Homeless Dad borrowed $20 from his boy this week?)

Both Grandma and the Generous Sister want the mom of the boy to go to court and get an order stating that a) he can't have his son in the car if he doesn't have a legal driver's license, and b) he can't take the boy overnight if he has no residence, but the woman is avoiding making the calls because of her own issues. Grandma and the Generous Sister believe that she needs to get over herself, and take care of her son, who will be better off if his dad takes the time to get his own crap together before he keeps sucking his son into his own disaster of a life. There is talk that someone will end up having to call Child Protective Services before this mess is resolved, and that is going to create its own set of drama/trauma for all of the players involved.

Note that I am none of the people in the story, and share your thoughts, please. Be aware that this isn't a tale of "forces beyond someone's control" putting someone in a bad spot, but active, conscious stupidity, with a strong dose of Human added into the equation.

:banghead:

[sinkingfeeling]

1. I agree with Grandma and the generous sister.

[IdaBriggs]

6. For the record, so do I.

I understand her fears, but for me, the welfare of my son would trump my fears. Of course, I have never been in an abusive marriage, and I am doing my best not to minimize or trivialize her trauma.

I also think the Generous Sister overstepped, and should have let him be carted off to jail (karma, you know), but I understand why she did it. It will be interesting to see if he uses the money for the cause it was loaned.

I was curious as to how other people not emotionally involved with any of the players would see the situation.

[Mountainman]

2. I was homeless for a while because of my own decisions.

I was an alcoholic drug abuser. Loss my job, apartment, couldn't get any money or place to live.

Some people helped me out. I turned around and am a good guy now for the last 24 years.

Just about anyone can change. If the guy straightens up he may be a good father for the kid.

[babylonsister]

3. She's your friend; I'd try to help her find her backbone for the sake

of her son. It sounds like his dad is using him ($20, granny's couch). Maybe the man needs to not consider his son for awhile and to clean up his own act first.

But I'm no doctor. :shrug:

[IdaBriggs]

7. I agree with you.

"Insert Backbone Here" -- LOL!!!

[drmeow]

4. OK, so ...

the issues here are that mom won't do anything and anyone else doing anything runs the risk of alienating mom. I suspect Dear Abby would say "call CPS yourself - the child's welfare is too important." This does not address the issue of your relationship with the mom which, should your call come out, will be damaged (possibly) - plus it certainly doesn't help her grow at all. On the other hand, she may be relieved that someone else has taken care of the problem for her - but she does need to get a backbone about him (admittedly very hard to do but she had the strength to leave so that's something).

A battered women's shelter might help give some ideas about how to handle this and help mom gain a backbone. Have you contacted one and explained the situation?

[IdaBriggs]

8. Depending on how things work out within the next 24 hours

I am on the list to be calling CPS. The Generous Sister is the first in line, and will be talking with her sister tonight about the situation. The "threat" of involving CPS may or may not come up, but the results of that discussion will impact on whether or not I am making the phone call.

There is also a question about whether or not CPS will actually do anything about the situation. Is sleeping in a car because your father is homeless something they will step up about? Are "the rest of us" exaggerating the impact on this young boy?

At some level, I am just plain horrified that HE is being forced to deal with such issues because his parents are being so STUPID. What the h*ll kind of father wouldn't take the "I understand you want to be with me" hit, and even think about bringing his kid to a car to sleep when he doesn't have to? And why would the mother even *think* about letting him get into a car with an unlicensed driver such that he might get to see Dad carted off by the police/get put into a foster home if no one is able to get a hold of a RESPONSIBLE adult in a timely manner?

[drmeow]

9. Depends on the CPS in your town

being homeless and sleeping in a car are not safe. Overnight lows in your area look like they are hovering in the low 40's and quite wet. Being on the street increases risk of being a victim of a crime. These are both issues CPS should take seriously. However, can CPS do anything? What needs to happen is his visitation rights need to be changed until he gets a place to live. No overnights and only monitored visits should be allowed until this is resolved. Discussions with Mom's divorce attorney may be in order. And I agree with Warpy about close observation - big risk factor there.

[Warpy]

5. The bottom lineis the kid loves his dad

so contact between them has to be maintained with one caveat: the kid needs to be observed for bruises or other signs of abuse. The man is a known bully who hits women. Such men often hit kids, too.

However, it must be kept in mind that kids learn what not to do from bad examples. "Saving" the kid from seeing his train wreck of a father isn't a good idea.

As for helping the guy financially, I'd be extremely careful about that because it can turn into enabling. Sometimes tough love is the best love and if he's jobless and homeless, pushing him out to beg from strangers might end up being the bottom he needs to hit before he gets some help. In any case, never lend what you can't afford to lose because you are going to lose it.

A night on the couch when he's visiting his son, allowing him to shower and wash his clothes, and feeding him are different. Letting the kid go with an unlicensed driver is a very, very bad idea. If that happens, a call to CPS needs to be made.

Note that I'm assuming there are some substance abuse issues here. It is an educated guess.

[IdaBriggs]

10. UPDATE: Turns out the Mom didn't know (and wasn't just being wimpy).

She has contacted the Friend of the Court, and been told she has to a) abide by the court order and let him take their son, and b) request an Emergency Motion hearing so she can make sure he doesn't take their son on any overnight visitations until his housing situation is resolved. I contacted the Child Protective Services folks, who said they had to abide by any Court Orders already in place, and had to assume things like "he'll get a motel room or stay with somebody".

:banghead:

The Mom has now contacted an attorney, and been advised to "talk" to her ex, with the assumption that he'll be reasonable/responsible. This is pretty funny, but its a step she's going to go through. When it doesn't work, in theory, on Monday she'll be able to get the attorney (or go herself in person) to get her that Emergency Motion thingy. One of the things making this more challenging is that the divorce proceedings occurred on the opposite side of the state, and she's never been able to get the venue changed, even though she's lived four hours away for eleven years (and her ex has, too, for about four years); she was told it would cost $4K to get it done, which just sounds insane to me.

We are all hoping this is resolved before the Homeless Dad tries to take his son on Tuesday.

On a positive note, she has now been able to explain to her son that, even though his father wants him to keep things from her, she needs to know what is going on so she can protect him (which frankly, she's been doing a mediocre job of, in my opinion, but whatever). He told her that he figured Grandma would step up and so he didn't mention it to her. My heart just breaks for how mature this kid has to be when dealing with his idiot parents. (Yes, I'm mad at her, too, for not getting the venue changed, for not picking up the phone when the grandmother called, for not talking to the Generous Sister for two days, and for having married the Idiot in the first place -- ARGH!!!)

Okay, I'm breathing again. LOL!

:banghead:

The sad thing is, the easy fix would have been for the Generous Sister to keep her money to herself, and just have the guy arrested for driving on a suspended license, which would have traumatized the child, but solved one of the problems (jail vs. homeless).

I will update as the situation progresses, if anyone is interested.

[EFerrari]

13. Jail isn't the answer to everything. In some families,

getting someone arrested just becomes a huge distraction, that person gets a lot of sympathy, and when the drama is over, you're back at square one.

[Breeze54]

14. "she's been doing a mediocre job of, in my opinion" -- O.M.G!!!!!

:grr:

Apparently you have NEVER been in an abusive relationship and tried to get out AND protect your kids and your psyche!!

YOU need an education!! STOP BLAMING THE MOTHER... FOR STARTERS!!!!! :grr: :nuke:

Gheesh!!

[IdaBriggs]

17. I know what I'm talking about, because I know the players.

I did everything I could do, including providing shelter and support, during very challenging times.

I blame the mother for what she did -- she was *not* a helpless victim, although she is very comfortable in that role. She has been warned REPEATEDLY over the years that her avoidance of basic common sense things is a set-up for disaster, and in my opinion, we are teetering on it right now.

Do *NOT* take my comments out of context -- I blame the perpetrator 100% for what he did, but at a certain point, if she doesn't protect her kid, I blame HER. And the first/second/third time the kid witnessed his father beating the shit out of Wife #2 and then Wife #3, you damn well better believe an attorney/child protective service would have been taking that low-life son-of-a-bitch to court to make sure he *only* had supervised visitation/wasn't able to even *think* about behaving like that around my kid.

Then again, I'm kind of an over-protective psycho hose beast bitch of a woman who actively took beatings in order to protect my siblings when I was living in an abusive situation AS A CHILD, so I know *exactly* just how strong I am AS AN ADULT, so I really don't have a lot of sympathy for people who won't walk through hell to protect their young....

[Breeze54]

22. I'm sorry you went through that as a child but wife abuse

is not only physical but is also psychological ans very emotional! Deep seated...

I'm sure you are aware of that and it takes YEARS for many to recover!

I know you care and I know you're trying to help. I just can't stand it

when I read on DU that the abused are being criticized.... again!!! :grr:

It makes me want to hurl and I know you care about the kids and her but she needs counseling STAT!

I wish you could have kept them at your place when you had them. I know it's hard to watch.

I wish I had had family that understood and cared as much as you, when I was in almost the same position years ago. :(

[IdaBriggs]

24. If you knew what I went through trying to get her help...

She lived with us for a month or so, and then we explained that she would have to make some kind of financial contribution to the household. He'd beaten her down so she thought she couldn't get a decent job. We built her up, and helped her find a good job, and she moved back with her mother, who was willing to provide free child care. That was when the religion thing came up, which meant she didn't 'need' counseling.

:eyes:

Its been a mess ever since.

She needs to get to the point where she can take responsibility for her portion of the relationship, and learn to understand why she ended up there, and then why she stayed. A professional is the best thing, but she has thus far opted against it.

Now we all reap the rewards of that ongoing unwillingness to look at unpleasant things. Wishing them away never makes them go away....

[Breeze54]

26. Facing that kind of abuse memory is scary for many people....

It's just to frigging scary and so, they run away from that....

I have for years. I just don't want to relive it and I know

I'll have to, if I rehash it with a counselor... again.

There are no easy answers and recovery can't be forced.

You know the old adage, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink".

She's suppressed it all and tried to overcome on her own....

That won't work... eventually it will erupt.

You may not be able to reach her but don't give up on the boy. ;(

I know you won't. :hug:

[Breeze54]

27. "If you knew what I went through trying to get her help..."... How is that empathy?

Read that title again.... I see it as all about you.

Try to read more about Wife Abuse and Marital Rape....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Teardrops On Roses

http://teardropsonroses.blogspot.com/2006/06/marital-rape.html

A look inside the eyes of those who are in a domestic violence situations
of all kinds: men, women, children, and the elderly

------------------

The Wife Rape Fact Sheet

http://www.musc.edu/vawprevention/research/wiferape.shtml

Ten to fourteen percent of ever-married women have experienced at least one forced
sexual assault by a husband or ex-husband (Finkelhor & Yllo, 1985; Russell, 1990).

Studies of battered women staying in shelters and women seeking relationship help show one-third
to three-quarters of those asked reported sexual assaults by their husbands or intimate partners.

How are Victims of Wife Rape Different from Other Rape Victims?

Women raped by a partner are violated by someone with whom they share their lives, homes, and possibly children. In addition to the violation of their bodies, they are faced with a betrayal of trust and intimacy. Sadly, victims of wife rape are not likely to see what is being done to them as a violation of their rights. This is no surprise, however, as society has only recently legally recognized wife rape as a crime, and opinion polls show that people still believe that wife rape must be "less harmful" than stranger rape.

Research indicates that wife rape victims are more likely to be raped multiple times compared with stranger and acquaintance rape victims. In research with wife rape victims, most report being raped more than once, with at least 1/3 of the women reporting being raped more than 20 times over the course of their relationship (Finkelhor & Yllo, 1985; Russell, 1990). Women who experience wife rape suffer long lasting physical and psychological injuries as severe or more severe than stranger rape victims.

[Breeze54]

11. "she is kind of a wimp because she is afraid of him even after all of these years." - With good reas

With good reason!! She's NOT a wimp!! She's smart!! and cautious! I don't fucking blame her at all!!

:grr:

I can't type right now... :puke:

[IdaBriggs]

15. Being afraid is one thing, but being afraid and not taking care of your kid

is why I can cheerfully call her a wimp. In this case, she didn't know, but for the last two days, the people around her have been trying to make sure her son doesn't end up sleeping in a CAR, and she has been totally OUT TO LUNCH because of things that happened ELEVEN YEARS AGO.

Be smart, cautious, etc. but for the sake of all that is decent and holy, DO WHAT'S RIGHT BY YOUR KID. This ASSHOLE is on Wife #3, and the kid has gotten to witness things that NO CHILD SHOULD EVER WITNESS because she didn't want to step up/rock the boat/what the FUCK ever.

And frankly, one of the problems is that she didn't prosecute/call the cops so when she did finally decide to divorce him, it was her word against his, which meant he got unsupervised access to the kid, which is how (we all just found out) the kid ended up living in a tent with Homeless Daddy last summer.

Want to know why a ten year old kid didn't feel like he could tell his mom about the situation he was being forced to endure? You can blame Daddy for being an asshole, but at some point, Mom has convinced all parties involved that she is "helpless" in the face of his Stronger Personality.

He's a bully, and she still trembles in fear when he raises his voice. If she can't stand up to him, then she needs to pay A LAWYER to do so. And hello! How about some counseling???

So take your anger, and aim it where it belongs -- I've been dealing with this shit for the last 15 years, and my pissed is right where it belongs -- at the situation the ONE HUMAN BEING WHO CAN'T AVOID IT is dealing with: two parents who bring their own baggage to the table such that HE is having to be the adult, while they act like ... irresponsible fools.

:mad:

[Breeze54]

16. 99% of the time, it's a He said/She said when the cops are involved!!

"This ASSHOLE is on Wife #3, and the kid has gotten to witness things that NO CHILD
SHOULD EVER WITNESS because she didn't want to step up/rock the boat/what the FUCK ever."

Now you're cooking with gas!!

He's the fucking asshole and HE isn't paying child support!! :nuke:

Could she reach out more to help her kids? YES!

But you criticizing her isn't helping ANYONE!!!

Why don't you try to REALLY understand what's going on and find OUT

what she doesn't understand and HELP HER and her kids!?!

EDUCATE HER!! Criticizing her isn't working, is it? :grr:

[IdaBriggs]

18. OMFG -- EDUCATE HER??? Lady, you don't know the players,

and you don't know me!!! I've kept my cool when dealing with her, and I've "educated" to the point where the relationship was 'distanced' because she didn't like what I had to say. I provided shelter when she needed it, helped her get a job so she could support herself, and that doesn't even count the fact that I was one of the few people who knew he was hitting her, and when I tried to blow the whistle, she flat out lied to folks (thus making me look like I was making stuff up) back in the day.

She's got an eleven year old; he has to act like the grown-up because his parents are constantly putting him in the middle of their ADULT problems. She is someone I care about, but she is NOT the mother I would have wanted for her son, and if she doesn't step up, the kid is going to be getting into a car with his homeless father on Tuesday.

Let me share some of my frustration -- today I got someone on the phone with her who verbally walked her through what she had to do to get an Emergency Motion to change the court ordered visitation without paying large sums of money to an attorney. After this person explained the process (which is not difficult, but is a little intimidating, and would *not* have involved any interaction with the ex-husband AT ALL), she told me she was going to continue to wait for a phone call from someone who hadn't returned a call for the last three hours, and then she had to take care of other personal business, and wouldn't be able to do it, but, if she had to, she would take Monday off of work (she won't -- it was just a stall thing), and she was sorry if she wasn't moving fast enough to suit me. I suggested that if she couldn't do it herself on Monday (because she would have to drive three hours across state to get to the Friend of the Court in the venue she has to file the papers in) then she could do the steps suggested, and fax them, perhaps even today (Friday), or give her Generous Sister a temporary power-of-attorney to take the documents in for her. I also pointed out that I was 100% on HER side, and would be willing to help out however I could.

She blew me off.

As I said, she'll talk to the ex this weekend via phone. He will refuse. She will get confused, because he will blow smoke, and threaten her if she doesn't let him take their son Tuesday.

I want to be wrong, but so help me God, if that kid sleeps in a car on Tuesday, I may never speak to her civilly again.

I'm calming down, and going to bed. Thanks for giving me a target to vent some of my frustrations. I know you don't know the players, and you certainly don't know me, but trust me when I say that this disaster is one that was pretty foreseeable.

[EFerrari]

12. The mom is getting the support she can't get directly

(or can't accept directly?) by pulling the whole clan into the situation. Isn't she?

If she isn't "taking care of her son", there must be a serious reason because we generally do that instinctively. :(

She seems to be the key to the situation. What does she need that she isn't getting?

:hug:

[IdaBriggs]

19. Thanks for the hug -- I needed that.

Actually, the whole clan got involved Tuesday; she just got schooled on what was going on by her Generous Sister Thursday night.

She really seems to think she is helpless; it is very frustrating, and has been going on for many years. This is the first time that 'the whole clan' has gotten Seriously Up In Arms over it, tho, because we are all pretty adamant that her son is *NOT* going to be sleeping in a car, and we'll do whatever it takes to make sure that doesn't happen, even if she won't.

She needs therapy. I wish I could help her, but I think the window for what I could do for her has passed. I was able to help quite a bit eleven years ago, but then she turned to her mother for help/support, and well, her mother isn't quite all right...a very nice lady, but....

Its complicated. Very, very complicated. The sanest one of the bunch is the Generous Sister.

Sigh.

[Breeze54]

20. "She really seems to think she is helpless..."

Most controlled beaten down women do....

It isn't something they "just snap out of"....

Counseling for her at a Domestic Violence group would help lot!!

I agree

I hear your frustration and I commend you for trying to help :hug:

but she sounds to me like she's in an "abusive fog"

Unless you've been there... you have no idea what that's like... It's frigging REAL and scary!

"Learned Helplessness" or just plain beaten down and needs more recovery time. :(

[IdaBriggs]

23. She is very comfortable where she is at mentally/emotionally.

Instead of getting help, she opted for another route (ecstatic religion). It hasn't "magically" cured her.

The window for not dealing with things is now seriously impacting her son's safety. Its why I am so frustrated. The man has not touched her in eleven years, and honestly, if he had, he would have been in jail, yet she still acts like he has power over her life, which, of course, gives him power over her life. Sometimes, when he is doing things like keeping their son longer than he should during visitations (for example), she just acts resigned. And don't even get me started on the amount of time she was spending with the new boyfriend versus her son for a while there....

Anyway, she's very busy, and I hope I am wrong about just how explosive this situation is. I'm going to bed.

Sorry I got a little hot under the collar there. I care about the players, and I hate feeling helpless myself!!!

[Breeze54]

25. It's been 22 years for me and I still have many "flashbacks"

And I still freak out and he lives 1800 miles away from me now!!

But "that" feeling is still there, that's how bad it was...

I even had to tell/ask my adult sons not to mention his name to me...

I keep trying to put it all behind me but there it is... again and again!! :(

It sends me into cold sweats and rages... even to this day. :cry:

Get some sleep and thanks for understanding my outrage.

:hug:

[EFerrari]

21. She may genuinely not be able to do this on her own.

And she's very lucky to have you all helping.