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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:23 PM
Original message
Memo Signed By Bush, ALLOWING TORTURE, Surfaces
Edited on Thu Apr-10-08 09:37 PM by kpete

George W. Bush Signature

********************************

Memo Signed By Bush, ALLOWING TORTURE, Surfaces
by Troutfishing
Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 02:15:10 PM PDT

**********************
Here's the central point:
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/LawPolitics/story?id=4583256&page=1

As detailed in the recent ABC News story on how top White House officials in the National Security Council discussed specific details of torture, the Bush Administration torture policy was determined by the NSC.

What ABC didn't mention is that Bush is the head of the National Security Counsel and the 2002 NSC decision memo in question, (shown at the bottom of this post) signed by George W. Bush, establishes that Bush was in 2002 indeed doing his job as acting head and final decision maker of the National Security Council.


Bush was in the torture loop, as the decider. Indeed, it's his job. As president he's head of the NSC.

What's important now we have at least ONE signed memo which establishes George W. Bush as the executive authority making final decisions in the NSC process which established a United States run torture regime; the document shown at the bottom of this post.

Of course:

He's the decider.
more at:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/10/95033/2181/104/493151


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JTG of the PRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Kick, because if this is real, it's BEYOND huge. n/t
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sonias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. Torturing bastard!
Always knew he was evil. Likes to play stupid - but he knew what the hell he was doing. One day he'll meet his maker and he'll have to account for all his evil deeds.

:grr:


Sonia
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hang on.
There is going to be one hell of a news dump beginning tomorrow.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
4. K&R
I'd say something about Bush here, but I don't want to be arrested by the Secret Service...

Besides, I'm already pissed off over the Randi Rhodes situation, I've had a couple posts deleted already.

So, I'll stuff my white-hot rage and take it out on my coworkers tomorrow...
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bullwinkle428 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. Bush is using the George Costanza mentality here -
"It's not 'torture' if you don't really believe it's 'torture'!"
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
6. Where is all this stuff coming from?
Edited on Thu Apr-10-08 10:09 PM by Jackpine Radical
Why now?

First ABC gets the story about the underlings.
Then AP confirms it, adding "Cheney-on-down"
Now Bush.

There are several possible theories.
1--The CIA is covering their asses
2--(Some portion of) the CIA has decided to hit Bushco very hard
3--The whole thing is a first step in a Roveian-style defusing of a potentially explosive issue.


If the correct answer is #3 (my current bet) it will be followed by something else, like a discrediting of the source like they did with Rather and the AWOL story.
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. The -ahem- logic in this memo makes my brain hurt....
2a - We do not have to apply Geneva because al qaeda is not a "High Contracting Party to Geneva".
So, since Al Qaeda isn't a state, we can torture their members. Nice.

2c - These conflicts are international because we invaded their fucking countries.

2d - Detainees are not prisoners of war, even though we are fighting..oh, what's that phrase Bush loves to us..oh yeah..the WAR on Terror.

3. - In which we pay lip service to moral decency..blah blah blah.

4. - We fart in the general direction of established international law, but BY GOD, if anybody captures any 'Murkin personnel, they better damn
well follow international law.








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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. To the Hague with them all
And to hell with all their cheerleaders in the punditocracy.
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
9. Kicking because it's you
Bombshell if it's real.
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
10. Hopefully something is done
I have almost no faith in the dems to uphold the law, but groups like the ACLU, national lawyers guild or center for constitutional rights can use this to help bring civil and criminal cases in domestic & international courts.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. Nancy Disaster has a clean table -- nothing to see and definitely no impeachment
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
11. k&r!
:hi:
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
12. He is a war criminal, all this was planned.
what a sick SOB he is, he needs to be arrested along with his corrupt cronies, we have our own homegrown terrorists sitting in the WH. Enough, just enough.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
13. Relevant Portions of the Geneva Convention
Article 3

In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:

1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.

To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

(a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

(b) Taking of hostages;

(c) Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment;

(d) The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.

2. The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for.

An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict.

The Parties to the conflict should further endeavour to bring into force, by means of special agreements, all or part of the other provisions of the present Convention.

The application of the preceding provisions shall not affect the legal status of the Parties to the conflict.

Article 4

A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:

1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:

(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

(c) That of carrying arms openly;

(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

3. Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.

4. Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civilian members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization from the armed forces which they accompany, who shall provide them for that purpose with an identity card similar to the annexed model.

5. Members of crews, including masters, pilots and apprentices, of the merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions of international law.

6. Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.

B. The following shall likewise be treated as prisoners of war under the present Convention:

1. Persons belonging, or having belonged, to the armed forces of the occupied country, if the occupying Power considers it necessary by reason of such allegiance to intern them, even though it has originally liberated them while hostilities were going on outside the territory it occupies, in particular where such persons have made an unsuccessful attempt to rejoin the armed forces to which they belong and which are engaged in combat, or where they fail to comply with a summons made to them with a view to internment.

2. The persons belonging to one of the categories enumerated in the present Article, who have been received by neutral or non-belligerent Powers on their territory and whom these Powers are required to intern under international law, without prejudice to any more favourable treatment which these Powers may choose to give and with the exception of Articles 8, 10, 15, 30, fifth paragraph, 58-67, 92, 126 and, where diplomatic relations exist between the Parties to the conflict and the neutral or non-belligerent Power concerned, those Articles concerning the Protecting Power. Where such diplomatic relations exist, the Parties to a conflict on whom these persons depend shall be allowed to perform towards them the functions of a Protecting Power as provided in the present Convention, without prejudice to the functions which these Parties normally exercise in conformity with diplomatic and consular usage and treaties.

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 04:47 AM
Response to Original message
14. K*R Thanks, I needed this;)
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 05:47 AM
Response to Original message
15. Republicans out of our country NOW.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 05:52 AM
Response to Original message
16. My prediction: business as usual, no one will stand up to these fascists
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 06:29 AM
Response to Original message
17. Commander AWOL's blatant lies to Americans about his republicon Crusade of Torture
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solara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
18. Maybe the corporate media will actually do their job this time...
Don't let this baby sink...

kickety kick and then kick again :kick:


INVESTIGATE IMPEACH INDICT INCARCERATE :banghead:
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
20. If the Dems don't impeach by now
I'm really gonna be disappointed if I haven't been already.
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
21. It's a forgery.
Dan Rather can probably tell you all about that.

:sarcasm:
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Frisbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
22. K and R! n/t
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