Where does $10/hr rate economically?

[TwixVoy]

Does anyone else remember just a few years ago when someone could get by on $10/hr? Even for moderate cost of living areas.

I remember a few years ago thinking "$10/hr isn't great, but someone could get by on it if they had to". Now I can't even say that is true.... and it really makes me wonder how the hell someone making 6/7 dollars an hour can make it in this economy.

When you look at how many people make that much per hour (a HUGE amount of the population) I truly have to wonder how is the economy still going? I mean, how? Honest question. Even the cost of seriously unhealthy food these days would consume a large amount of a persons income.

[Breeze54]

1. It rates no where... and many earning that can still be homeless

in many area's of the country... especially in the states with the higher living costs.

People make it by sharing Apts. and houses and hanging on by a thread.... :(

[B Calm]

2. 10 dollars an hour was 1980 wages. . . . and that was in the midwest.

[Breeze54]

5. Yet those same people pay Fed. & State income taxes and that's BELOW the poverty line!!

:grr:

[Rosemary2205]

166. Snort

an awful lot of $10 an hour full time jobs still out there. Wages at the bottom are NOT going up. Not for a long long time.

[Breeze54]

3. Welcome to DU, TwixVoy!

:hi:

Sorry, I forgot to add that.

:kick: & Recommended

[Mojambo]

4. I get by on 10 bucks an hour

But I do live down quite a bit.

I rent a very, VERY small room for 400 bucks a month and can't afford a social life, but I get by. Zero margin for error though.

I can't imagine someone getting by on 7 bucks an hour.

[JI7]

20. do you pay for things like health insurance ?

do you work overtime ?

[Mojambo]

24. Of course not!

I've come to accept the fact that if I get sick, I'll die.

No, no overtime usually.

[Breeze54]

32. rofllmfao!!

Benefits!?! What the hell are those for the working poor? Are you kidding me??!!!

[juajen]

6. No, you cannot live on $10 an hr.

A man I know has 20yrs. experience as a cabinet maker, and is making $10 an hr. in LA. He owns his own Travel trailer and lives in an RV campground . As rent is very high in the area I live in, he could not make it if he didn't own his own trailer, let alone ever having hope of a family. His hours are reasonable, but he is exhausted after work, and has a pet to take care of, so has no time for socializing outside of the camp ground he lives in.

It's really tough out there now that manufacturing jobs are non-existent; and construction jobs' wages are low because of the corporations that abuse illegals from everywhere for their own greed.

This man will probably work back up to around $15 an hr. He was injured and had to file workman's comp. While awaiting a back operation (his whole right side was numb) he was homeless and had to live in shelters or under a bridge. After his surgery, it took him nine months to be anywhere normal again. Of course, the company he worked for had no benefits, certainly no health coverage. He lived in FL, another right to work state, which is shorthand for no livable wages.

In short, its HELL out there and a lot more people than realized, are struggling just to eat. It's a shame people don't realize this.

[Breeze54]

10. Yes you can....

it's not easy or fun or wanted but a person can live on $10.00 an hour. Hell; I raised three kids on not much more and at one point, I took care of two preschoolers on $63.00 a month!! while waiting for my disability insurance payments to come through and that took MONTHS!! But that was in the '80's.... but still, people who have no incomes are still alive. I didn't say happy or healthy but they're still alive.

[G_j]

82. thousands die for Lack of Health Insurance

from lack of health care!

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/81895/

Death by Lack of Health Insurance
Posted by Joshua Holland, AlterNet at 2:56 PM on April 9, 2008.

New Families USA reports crunch numbers state-by-state.

Families USA has been crunching numbers compiled by the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences, and the findings are quite eye-opening.

I'm a bit too lazy to add a lot of analysis right now, so here's the press release:

In 2002, a groundbreaking national study by the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences demonstrated the direct link between a lack of health coverage and deaths from health-related causes. Drawing on that study, Families USA, the national organization for health care consumers, has today made available reports for all 50 states that show how many people are expected to die in each state each week because they don’t have health coverage. A separate report is also available for the District of Columbia.

The individual reports, available on the Families USA Web site, provide eye-opening numbers for every state. Among the figures cited is the fact that more than seven working-age Texans die each day due to a lack of health insurance. Other reports reveal that, on average, approximately 960 people in Illinois died in 2006 because they had no health coverage, and nearly 9,900 uninsured New Yorkers between the ages of 25 and 64 died in the years 2000 to 2006.

“Our report highlights how our inadequate system of health coverage condemns a great number of people to an early death simply because they don’t have the same access to health care as their insured neighbors,” Ron Pollack, Executive Director of Families USA, said today. “The conclusions are sadly clear—a lack of health coverage is a matter of life and death for many people.

“Health insurance really matters in how people make their health care decisions,” Pollack said. “We know that people without insurance often forgo checkups, screenings, and other preventive care.”

As a result, he said, uninsured adults are more likely to be diagnosed with a disease, such as cancer, in an advanced stage, which greatly reduces their chance of survival. The Institute of Medicine found that uninsured adults are 25 percent more likely to die prematurely than adults with private health insurance.
..more,,

[Greyhound]

84. and every one of our politiwhores that refuses to support the single-payer

plan is guilty of murder, plain and simple. Every person that dies here because they can't get the care they need was murdered in cold blood to make the rich richer.

[Codedonkey]

137. Why are there so many people without insurance?

I may have just been lucky myself, but aside from the part-time jobs I had in HS, I've always had the chance to be covered by insurance at my place of employment... Usually it was less than $20/mo for it... Of course I'm stupid and never got it, but I tend think I would only have myself to blame in my case...

[Lars39]

143. If you have a pre-existing condition, you usually can't get insurance at all.

People also get dropped from insurance policies if they start actually using their insurance, or if they get something seriously wrong with them. Some policies also have caps...you reach the limit and you're bumped off the policy.
Some people with pre-existing conditions sometimes can get health insurance,
but at a very exorbitant rate(upwards of $10,000/yr for example).
A lot of companies use contractors, and when you are a contractor, you have to find your own insurance.
A lot of companies have just stopped offering health insurance as a benefit.

[XOKCowboy]

169. I'm a contractor

I was forced to quit my job of 20 yrs and start freelancing. I balked at the price of the COBRA plan offered since it was exorbitantly expensive (about $1000 per month) and I didn't have a paycheck coming in. By the time I'd established my freelance business and it was paying regularly I was no longer eligible for COBRA. Big mistake. COBRA was expensive but nothing like what I'm being quoted now.

I'm healthy for my age (54) but I do have pre-existing conditions. Who doesn't? Besides the costs I'm being quoted, anything that's wrong with me now won't be covered. So I'm doing my best not to get sick.

This is why any candidate's claim to provide "universal health care" and has the Insurance Industry as part of their plan, I call bullshit. As long as the insurance companies have anything to do with health care it's same old thing, different day.

[raccoon]

179. Lots of jobs don't offer it. 50% of the workers where I work are part-time,

no benefits. This is a community college.

What state are you in, by the way? My guess is that right-to-work states are likely to have more jobs that don't offer group medical insurance.

[Mojambo]

25. Depends on where and how you live, but you sure can. n/t

[SparkyMac]

78. Median family income by state

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/income06/statemhi2.html

[Codedonkey]

135. A signle person w/o kids here in Austin,TX could do it...

Wouldn't have tons of extra money, obviously... but it's possible. I did it for a few months while I was looking for something better... Actually, I was making about 10.50/hr but ehnn...

[The Straight Story]

7. Well, I guess that depends

Are they living at home, are they living with others that make that amount, etc.

Way back in the day I was a deputy making $8.50/hr and it was tough for me but not all too bad - but I was also friends with a deputy who lived with two other couples from Laos and they all shared the same house. He was driving a nice new Mercedes and I was driving a dodge Omni.

He and his wife both worked, as did all the other people he lived with. 6 people all in the same house (with their kids) meant they made about 6 times what I did - and all their bills were split 6 ways.

They came here with a dream and worked together to make it happen - maybe we need to take a look at that 'American Dream' and see what it really means. They were able to save, while I was spending to make ends meet. I had this idea that I could make the dream happen all alone, while they saw it as something else (like being able to work together for a spell first at lower wages).

[FirstLight]

8. I make $10...part time...

and I am raising 3 kids. We have housing assistance, but my parents and church make up for so much more in just food and clothing...

I rarely am the one to buy my kids shoes or take them for a haircut...I can't afford to.
What hurts is that I have all this experience, but have to have flexibility to care for my kids, and no full time gig will offer that...so I am freelancing and working part time at my church...thank god for the love & support of my family, friends...and therapist!

[Breeze54]

12. You go girl!!!

:hug:

You'll make it!!

[man4allcats]

9. I'm 59. When I was in high school

I worked in a grocery store (Barber's Market in Conroe, TX) for 50 cents an hour (12 hour days), and I was making a few bucks profit. It kept me in spending money and new jeans. Today, I can't imagine how anybody can make it on less than $15.00 an hour. Times have changed as has this country. It used to be a democracy. Now it's owned and operated by Fascists.

[Juche]

13. half the jobs pay less than $15/hr

Isn't $15/hr around the median wage, half the jobs pay more half pay less? $15/hr seems like a decent wage in the midwest though, but something like 40 million of the 130 million jobs pay $10/hr or less anymore.

I got out of college and cannot find a job in my field, I'm probably going to have to work for $8/hr via manpower or some other temp agency. I will live with family, but I'd barely be able to survive on $8/hr if I had to pay for everything myself. I could probably meet the basics, but not have any wiggle room.

[Breeze54]

16. You aren't alone, Juche

I hope you find that dream job.

Have you considered taking the plunge and going for a job in another state?

Just a thought. ;)

[Juche]

18. Yeah

I'm looking in Indiana & western Ohio. The problem is I have nieces who are 2 and 3 and I don't want to move more than 100-150 miles away from them. I am thinking I may have to though, at least for a year or two then I can move back to the area later on.

[Breeze54]

27. I moved 3000 miles away from ALL my family

just to find a job.... but i took my kids with me.

My nieces and nephews, if I did that today, I could see on the internet on a video camera. ;)

SAVE YOURSELF!!!!!!

[Juche]

29. How do you do that

How do you find a job 3000 miles away, since you need to go to the interview? I don't really want to pay $500 for plane tickets to go on an interview halfway across the US. I figure it'll take 5-10 interviews to get a position, and I don't want to spend thousands on plane tickets if I won't see a return.

[Breeze54]

31. I drove with a friend and took a CHANCE!!!

Life is a gamble. Always was, always is. You have to be bold and brave and go for it!!

You won't know what is out there, until you go out there and look!!

But in a more practical view, you're local State Employment office should

have "out of state" job listings available. ;)

What line of work are you in, if I may ask? :shrug:

[Juche]

33. I am not sure

I guess I'm cautious because I have heard stories of employers getting 100 resumes for 1 position, and I don't like those odds enough to spend hundreds of dollars on gas & plane tickets to try my luck. I can always apply for jobs in Cincinnati or Indianapolis instead. I guess for me it hurts to not be able to see my nieces grow up if I move beyond driving distance. If they were adults, I wouldn't mind moving. But moving when they are 2 and 3 bothers me a bit. But I may have to.

I have a B.S. degree in Biochemistry and am looking for positions as a chemist.

[Breeze54]

37. A BS in Chemistry? Why the hell aren't you heading East? - "Go East, Young person!!"

:wtf:

Find a Biotech job in Boston

http://www.boston.com/jobs/industries/biotech/?p1=BW_CC_INDUSTRY_BIOTECH


Top Jobs in Biotechnology

* Analytical Chemist (608 Jobs)
* Scientist (286 Jobs)
* Chemist (135 Jobs)
* Biochemist (135 Jobs)
* Molecular Biologist (105 Jobs)
* Cell Biologist (105 Jobs)

More Jobs in Biotechnology

Bioinformatics

* Bioinformatics
* Biostatistics

Manufacturing

* All Manufacturing
* Facilities and Site Engineering
* Maintenance
* Safety
* Operations
* Process Development

Laboratory

* Animal/Veterinary
* QA/QC
* Validation

Clinical Research

* Clinical Research
* Clinical Data Management

Regulatory Affairs

* Document Control
* Regulatory Affairs

Sales and Marketing

* Business Development
* Sales

Research and Development

* All Chemistry
* Analytical Chemistry
* Synthetic Chemistry
* All Biology
* Cell Biology
* Microbiology
* Molecular Biology
* Biochemistry
* Biomedical Engineering
* Chemical Engineering
* Genetics
* Immunology
* Pharmacology


:hi:

[Juche]

39. West coast too

California & New England seem to be good places for scientific fields. The midwest is mostly dead.

I have thought of San Diego, my younger brother lives there.

Thanks for the link.

[Breeze54]

40. Yeah but Cali. has earthquakes - we just have snow and the ocean and skiing!

:P

:hi:

Good luck!!

[axollot]

181. Cali is expensive to live too! I went to HS in Cali and HATE -

going back to even visit! It's beautiful but the cost of living and traffic turned me off many years ago - between that and RayGun, I left the country and didn't come back for well over a decade - except for visits - about 20 of them! Once my mother moved from CA, even when the plane lands in LA - I don't stop over anymore.

Now a good party can be had on a Fri or Sat night almost anywhere along Sunset, everyone gets piled onto the street at 2am though - a little odd!

Cheers
Sandy

[Greyhound]

85. Most of those jobs do not exist.

Agencies collect thousands of resumes that they have no positions for in order to sell their services to companies and there is a burgeoning trade in seminars on how to not hire an American so you too can get a H1-b visa slave.

Talk to scientists, there is no longer any money at all for science in this country that doesn't come from or through DOD.

We have become a one industry country, death.

[Juche]

94. Not always

The H1-B visa scam is borderline treasonous, but people still get placed in my field. I know several people I graduated with who have good paying jobs in chemistry or biochemistry. The placement agencies I am working with have placed people before.

[Greyhound]

96. Of course not always. The point is that the whole area has become a morass

of lies and deception there are far more jobs advertised for than exist and a large percentage of those are specifically designed to not be filled. Nobody knows how many people are really unemployed, but it is known that the numbers reported are not even in the neighborhood of reality. Discrimination is rampant, and has been for far longer than shrub has been squatting in the White House, and the laws are unenforced.

[axollot]

182. Well fucking put mate and damn scary too! n/t

[GaYellowDawg]

103. Get a PhD or teach.

I learned the hard way that a BS in any given science degee is worth about as much as the paper the degree's printed on. You're going to need to get a graduate degree for any kind of decent paying job, or you're going to need to get a teaching certificate. Teaching pays better, given your degree, than any other job, and there are areas of the country absolutely screaming for chemistry or physics teachers.

[Juche]

PhDs are a bad idea

The PhD science market is glutted. I have heard a BS or MS is the best way to go. I have considered a MS degree but am concerned if that'll pigeonhole me into a very narrow field.

I can probably become a HS teacher in some states w/a certificate. I can look into that.

BS science degrees aren't all bad. As I said earlier, I have seen several of my friends find jobs.

[Baby Snooks]

154. The reality of the job market...

The reality is quite a few people with graduate degrees are taking non-professional jobs just to have a job. Especially if they're over 40.

Quite a few who fall into the trap of believing a graduate degree will guarantee a good paying professional job end up 2-5 years later finding that all they have done is wasted their savings or accumulated debt from student loans they were not and now are not in a position to have accumulated and end up facing bankruptcy.

The reality is the corporate structure has taken over everything in this country. And the less educated you are, the better off you are. Employers want cheap labor. Not good labor.

As for teaching, check different states. Some like Texas are of the mindset that public servants should be indentured servants. And hopefully most will drop dead before they need to collect anything from a state pension. And the health insurance plans these states offer the indentured servants more or less guarantee that possibility.

The reality is even those lucky enough to make $25 an hour, usually in the form of an actual salary, are barely able to make ends meet.

Things are going to get worse. Not better. And who the next president is will determine whether anyone really survives except the very rich who are primarily the corporate rich. Everyone else has watched their capital disappear as they've had to consistently sell it off to make up for the low interest rates and the equity losses.

That the rich are hurting should signal something is wrong. But according to Hillary Clinton and John McCain the only thing wrong is everyone's attitude - their attitude towards the majority of Americans is what is wrong.

[Juche]

107. Double post

[man4allcats]

23. It's a bitch.

I was out of work for awhile but am doing okay now so I help a friend who is in college. I feel I should give some back to help a good person who will do as much later for someone else. Best of luck. You're gonna need it. It was hard when I was coming up, but it's gonna be a lot worse for you and others in your generation.

[Juche]

28. I know

There are huge numbers of people working service sector jobs who are trained to work as scientists, technology workers, economists or social workers. It is a waste of talent. In college I did research on treating cancer, and I'll likely end up working at walmart for the next few years. It doesn't make any sense. There is so much wasted human talent not only in America but in the world anymore. People with masters degrees may end up trying to make and market an ice cream that tastes better instead of reverse engineer the brain. You have people who are highly trained working in service jobs here, and in Africa the next Einstein may be dying of malaria right now.

What bothers me is when older people assume it is just because young people are lazy and spoiled that we are so financially messed up. Alot of it is just that the jobs aren't always there and they don't always pay a living wage. Thirty years ago healthcare and real estate were alot more affordable. Now they are far more expensive and you enter a competitive job market with 20k in student loans.

[Breeze54]

34. The well educated voted for the Repukes and now they sit in their own shit....

Serves them right!! :rofl: at them!! SUFFER WITH THE REST OF US!!!

I guess they weren't so "smart" after all, eh?

All that "book learning" wasted on GREED!!!

To bad they fucked everyone else over with their greedy ways!! :grr:

[Juche]

36. Depends

My brother and his wife do ok financially, but they have trouble affording healthcare. I want to say to them 'hey, you guys have voted for years to deprive other people of healthcare with your voting habits, now it is biting you in the ass'. I don't say it though for social reasons, but I probably should.

The well educated (grad degree voters) don't vote republican. People who are HS or below vote dem, college grads are about even between the 2 parties, and grad degreed people prefer dems.

[Breeze54]

45. People who have PhD's vote Dem and also the poor but not across the country!

You SHOULD tell those asshats (relatives or not) that they ARE asshats

and that THEY wreaked this havoc on America by their GREED!!

Tell them the truth!! :grr: Be a stand up person!

Be true to yourself... "To thine own self ... be true..."

:hug:

[Juche]

52. Political discussions in my family get heated

My dad & mom are total RW fanatics. They watch fox news because it is fair and balanced. Literally. It isn't liberal like every other media outlet in their view.

My older brother and his wife are RW, but not as fanatical. My younger brother and I are diehard liberals. he even recommended that I move out to california just because the poltiical climate is so much better.

I have had several discussions with my parents or family on politics where I just get upset and say 'you guys just aren't using facts, this is pointless'. I've learned to avoid the area. I can't have a give & take discussion with them because (no offense to them) their opinions are not very well informed. Most are just talking points.

My dad may say something like 'tax cuts for the rich create jobs'. Then I'll go into a long speil about job creation under Bush vs Clinton (3 million net jobs vs 22 million), about how demand based keynes economics or infrastructure investment creates jobs, the laffer curve, etc. And after it all he'll just say 'tax cuts for the rich create jobs'. I remember him saying 'volcanos produce more CO2 than man', and I replied that the USGS found that volcanos only produce 3% as much CO2 as man. He'd say the same thing, 'volcanos produce more CO2 than man' and after pointing out how that was false 3 or 4 times I just gave up.

I basically gave up. I honestly and sincerely want intelligent and open debate with conservatives because I realize there are things I can learn from discussions with people I don't agree with. But I haven't met many (online or in person) who had well thought out opinions. There were a few who made good points now and again, but none who really knew much about the issues.

Anyway, I just try and steer clear of politics in this family.

Ironically my dad makes over 100k a year and is in his late 50s, but can't quit his job because he can't afford healthcare since he has several chronic conditions. He is forced to work full time until he is 65 and gets medicare. My mom has said if it weren't for not being able to afford healthcare (even at $50/hr), he would work part time.

I want to bring this up with my parents and my brother's family, bring up how they are voting for the misery they are experiencing, I just don't know how to do it without a sneering 'I told you so' attitude.

[Breeze54]

59. I hear you... sounds like you need to move to ....

The Bluest State in the Union!! :)

You need some relief.... :hug: and a JOB!! :P

Stop worrying about nieces and nephews that you have no control over....

with a good paying job you can fly back when you want to or have the time.

Take a chance. "Fly, little bird, fly"!! :P

You get my drift! Be among your peers for a change. ;)

You can't change the world but you CAN change yours!

[axollot]

185. Wow, I'm sorry you're surrounded....I can count myself lucky -

the only RW member of my family is my sister. My mother and I have great discussions together about politics and my hubby's family are all railroad - blue collar - union dems.

My mother helped school me up politically when I came back from Australia - I left rather young and only knew Aussie politics and followed US politics to the extent one would care how it effected your home, which to me is Australia. And, of course I was a Labour/Green supporter. In QLD.

(left before voting age in the US and now duel citizen along with my children).


Cheers
Sandy

[girl gone mad]

41. A lot of us dropped out of the rat race..

Starting with gen. x, at least. So many of my friends who graduated college with degrees in computer science, engineering, math, music, etc. figured out pretty quickly that even if we landed a good job, we were never going to be able to afford kids and a nice home. We were labeled "slackers" because of our underachieving ways. The truth is we did the math and figured out it was better to have some free time in a McJob than work like a slave for a little more money.

[Breeze54]

50. So, ... with all that education, you just "gave up" because it was 'to hard'??

:wtf:

Talk about fucking spoiled!

[Progressive_In_NC]

81. Amen

I'm in IT, I've put 20 hours a month in personal development and I have a six figure job. It isn't hard at all, it just requires the drive to do it.

[Codedonkey]

139. Only 20 hours?

Work harder!!


Can I have your job?

[Progressive_In_NC]

180. No, I work 55 hours a week and then I put in 20 hours of personal development time

so it works out to a 60 hour a week job.

Go figure.

[Codedonkey]

140. Screw that...

There is more to all that than just making money....

[man4allcats]

43. Re: "In college I did research on treating cancer..."

I am a biologist myself, not a Ph.D., but a biologist nevertheless. As you know, Bushco hasn't helped research. Do what you must to survive. I've worked as a house painter and a school bus driver to make it. I'm back in research now though not at the level I'd like, but at least I'm working. That's more than a lot of folks I know including some Ph.D.s. I worries me that too many people, many of them decision maker politicians, don't understand what potential exists in terms of treatments and even cures for many of the illnesses that now debilitate and/or kill people. It only needs support to make it happen. Hang in there!

[Juche]

47. Yeah I can do that

I really don't mean to denigrate service sector workers or anything. I just feel upset that so much human talent is being wasted both at home and abroad.

Even people who land 'good jobs' can and do end up seeing their talents wasted. So much of what we spend our money and attention on is just a petty attempt to 1 up the joneses. People who could be fighting cancer or alzheimers end up trying to add a few atoms to prozac so the patent won't expire even though things like magnesium supplements or omega 3s are more effective against depression anyway.

[man4allcats]

58. Re: "People who could be fighting cancer or Alzheimer's end up..."

I understand, believe me. It's unfortunate. Talent is being wasted. All we can do though is keep moving and wait for reality to catch up. Science is the great awakener. When all else fails, the facts intervene. It's regrettable that everything else has to fail first, but I guess that's human nature.

[conflictgirl]

56. Yes!!!! I would put myself in the same category

I have a BA in sociology and professional writing, graduated magna cum laude. I've worked as a freelance writer and editor for the past 5 years. I tutored my classmates in statistics. I have a decent comprehension of not only my own language, but also French and Spanish. I've been looking for a full-time job since last August.

I've had exactly one interview, and one job offer: part-time barista at Starbucks.

Starbucks is not a bad company as far as service industry jobs go, because at least they offer benefits to part-timers. But how am I supposed to pay back $30K in student loans on 20 hours a week, at a few cents above minimum wage? At this point all I can do is hope that I can move up the ranks into lower store management someday and maybe earn somewhere near $10/hr - which is not a great wage at all for someone in their 30s with a bachelors degree! I'm also applying for jobs in other states and I do get some phone interviews, but they end up choosing other candidates (usually local ones rather than relocating ones like me, even though I tell them I'd relocate at my own expense.) I also have a mortgage and 3 kids because I didn't go back to school until then, so how I'm supposed to support myself AND my kids on this is anyone's guess. Luckily my husband has a slightly decent job, but we still qualify for food stamps and the kids are on the state medicaid plan because we can't afford the $50 a month it would cost to insure them through my husband's job. I'm willing to work hard, I believe that I have talents to offer, and I just want to be able to take care of myself and my children. If I could actually get a GOOD job I'd love to do everything within my power to pay off my student loans early and set aside an large savings account so I can take care of myself in my older age.

Instead I'm just barely getting by and it does feel absolutely like it's a waste. I'm the best damn barista I can be, but it's extremely discouraging and hard on one's self-esteem to realize your skills are not valued and the gamble you took on your education lost big.

[earth mom]

62. No, this crap started 30+ years ago, and it's ALL gotten worse.

30 years ago, the cost of living for many things was lower, yes, but many people didn't have health care back then either and buying a house required a big down payment and perfect credit. Not only that but in So California where I lived, houses and rents were expensive even 30 years ago.

It's all snowballed since:

Cost of living UP

Wages DOWN

Gas UP

Utilities UP

Food UP

Real estate/rent UP

Health care and benefits DOWN

Education costs UP

Credit limits UP ...So the masses will work for any amount just to pay the bills.

Job market DOWN & FUBAR. ...Employers have exploited workers from both sides of the border, they've shipped jobs overseas and they've crushed unions.



And that list is just for starters.

This country has gone to hell in hand basket in a very short time. :argh:

Meanwhile the greedy bastards responsible laugh all the way to the bank. :grr:

[Breeze54]

64. US Dollar DOWN!!

Great post!!

I'd K&R it, if I could! ;)

[Manifestor_of_Light]

109. Very very true.

Lots of scientists out there with no jobs.

Friend of mine was very hopeful when they were building the Superconducting Supercollider near Waxahachie, Texas. It would have employed lots of programmers and physicists. He has a BS and an MS in math and physics. He wanted to study nuclear physics in grad school, but the school pulled the rug out from under him and wouldn't offer the right classes for it.

Of course the idiots in Congress don't want to fund basic research because it has no immediate practical benefits. Nobody knows what the benefits of theoretical research will be down the line.

And they keep cutting the funding for NASA. This person applied at Mission Control many times and never got a call. He's also a programmer.

I think NASA should keep doing the Hubble Telescope, the Chandra mission and anything else that's unmanned. The Shuttle is dangerous and obsolete.

Hell, I got my bachelor's degree in science and never got a job using it.
I even applied to teach school right after I graduated, having heard that science teachers were needed badly in the public schools. I applied to several school districts and they wouldn't even hire me for junior high. I decided that need for science teachers must not be real if they wouldn't hire me. I went to the best pre-med school in the state and had a biology degree. Several of my courses were actually medical school courses. :shrug:

[Nikia]

127. I'm a Bio major who works in the food processing industry

Actually my experience hasn't been all that great, but I am not sure if that has to do with the particuliar companies that I have been working for or if that it is characteristic of the industry as a whole, as my ex boss suggested. Generally though, at least in Wisconsin, it pays a little better than entry level independent lab jobs and has better advancement potential than biotech lab jobs for those without advanced degrees.
Find out if the temp agencies in your area hire for lab positions and apply to those agencies. If you get a temp assignment that is "temp" rather than temp to hire, be sure to network as much as possible while you are there in order to get a permanent position.

[Codedonkey]

138. hah, I wonder how much places like manpower are getting for your time...

Probably double what they are paying you, huh?

[Breeze54]

14. My son works in a grocery store and makes $9.50 per hour....

with no health benefits and he isn't even considered 'full time' after FOUR years working for them and the told him if he wanted health insurance to apply to the state first!! He works all the hours they give him (like it's a charity... assholes!) and he still NEVER gets 40 hours full-time... He's working a 2nd job now because he needs a newer used car and he's applying for a job that's steady (40 hrs. a week) at $12.00 an hour. He has inside help from a friend for that job but if he wasn't living with me, he'd be on the streets! There is NO place he could rent for what he pays to live here... not a chance in hell.

[Wizard777]

60. I'm 76. I can remember when Dad got this great high paying job.

He made .45 per hour. He brought home about 18.00 per week and we lived pretty good off that. We had everything we needed and a lot of the stuff we wanted.

[Breeze54]

63. You hot ticket!

But those were the 'good ole' days" and inflation and a weak dollar and
a rethug recession (again) have made it nearly impossible these days for
graduates to find a good job! That's what out sourcing by NAFTA has done.

:(

You are a cool dude!! :P

:hug:

[Wizard777]

69. More like the better old days. I was born on the tail end of the great depression.

Things weren't exactly good. But they were steadily getting better. But I think the Biggest cause is passing the buck to the next generation. If we keep this up. Soon our great great grandchildren will be turning down jobs for 1,000,000.00 per hour. Because who wants to work for minimum wage? It'll be like Italy after fascism. A loaf of Bread was 1M Lira.

[man4allcats]

66. Ain't it the truth!

I often think how amazed my Dad would be if I could tell him now how much money I make and how far it goes; not nearly as far as his considerably less paychecks went when he was alive, and I'm single. He had a family to support.

[Wizard777]

71. We also had savings and durable goods. Not this cheap disposable Walmart crap on a stick.

Back then the banks were grateful that you trusted them to hold your money. Now the banks think we should be grateful they allow us to use their money.

[man4allcats]

73. Of course!

It's our privilege to let them use whatever little cash we get - Bastards!

[kittykitty]

105. Still running in the house my parents built in1939 is their 1939 refrigerator!

They built the 3 BR a 1/2 bath house (on 3 lots) for $9,000 with a 2% mortgage. They have since passed on, but my 62 yr old little brother still lives in the house. And the best irony is that my parents signed up for a life time subscription of Reader's Digest. Since my brother is named after my father, and still lives at the same address, the Reader's Digests just keep coming. And I think every issue is stored in boxes.

[WillowTree]

76. Where, pray tell...

....were you living in 1976 where your family was able to live on less than $1,000/year? Hell's Bells, in '76 I was making $12,500 even without a degree at that time and, while I was comfortable, it was far from what would be considered a fantastic living even then and even in Iowa, where the cost of living was relatively low and I was only supporting myself.

[Wizard777]

80. 1976? Well aren't you sweet. Try 1931.

[XOKCowboy]

171. Did you have a garden...

and your family canned fruits and vegetables all summer long? Probably had a family somewhere locally who sold eggs and a maybe even a dairy where you could get fresh whole milk daily. You went to the grocery store but only to get what you couldn't grow yourself or get locally? Did your mom sew and darn your family's clothes in her "spare" time?

I'm only 54 but that's how it was where I grew up in rural OK. We were lucky. We raised cattle and hogs, had chickens for eggs and a huge garden. We traded for most everything we didn't grow ourselves. I sure miss those days. I especially miss home grown tomatoes, cucumbers and sweet corn and my grandma's fried chicken. I don't think anything will ever taste that good to me again.

[thunder rising]

11. Well the fact that every "undocumented" day laborer can speak only "$10/hr" go figure.

[CRF450]

15. Its plenty to get by with if you dont have a house, but own a decent vehicle

And live with someone else. A cheap (say around $400) apartment would be affordable if you dont have car payments and dont blow it all on crap all the time.

[Juche]

22. It is liveable yes

If you live in an area with a roommate where apartments are $500-600/month and you have no dependents, major financial obligations or chronic illnesses. But if you do then its going to be extremely hard.

[CRF450]

48. I own my own home, but if I was to live a apartment or any house I could rent

It would out in the country away from the city and people living on the other side of the wall. I am having a friend (one who I trust that wont trash the house) move into my house for rent. Its awsome that way, cause then I get my house paid off quicker. I just bought it several months ago, and I want it paid off ASAP, fuck 30 year payments. It'll bust my ass financially, but in the long run, and me being only 21, I will be so much better off paying off sooner.

[Breeze54]

65. If you earned $10.00 per hour, you wouldn't be renting in the country...

Not unless you "knew" someone and I admire you!!

I've been trying to get my 19 yr old son to buy a house...

Who helped you do that?

I'm really trying to get him to see that NOW is the time!!

Here's to hoping and good on you! :toast:

[CRF450]

74. Details...

I inherited a good bit of money from a close family member, not alot though at $30k (split up among other family members who also got 30k) and used that as a down payment for a $200k 1800sq/ft house sitting on 2 acres. Theirs several more acres I could play with cause the people that owned it and two torn up trailer houses (they once lived in) next to mine just up and left, and havent said anything to anyone around here for 8+ years. Which is great since I own a dirtbike and have room to play with that. It is of course, out in the country 1/4 mile from the road next to a long stretched driveway, so no neighbors to deal with, I'm practically surrounded by farm fields :) I'm surrounded by rednecks here but they dont concern me at all since I'v lived in this area all my life. 2 vehicles I have, 01 Trans Am, and an 04 Dodge Dakota already paid off, and combined insurance rate of $800/six months with good driving record, $5k home theatre entertainment system, $2000 computer (yes I'm a little bit of a techy geek), $5500 dirtbike (just got it Monday). Most of that stuff I got before I bought the house!


My house is on the left. If you notice those pine trees are lined up, they are planted . They've been planted their I'm guessing 20+ years ago, I got my own little dirtbike trail in their BTW.



Wanna know how I do it? Know people! If you wanna good paying/ or just good job, alot of times you have to know people cause then they can hook you up with a good job! My aunt went to cleaning pools and hot-tubs at the beach, I helped her most of that first summer and then later on I got my own route to take car of. I'v worked tons of construction jobs before that starting at 14 years old making almost $500/week under that table durring summer and then a part time job durring school, and I saved almost every bit of that money!

And then I got the inheritance last year. Well, my friend and his parents were moving out of that house to go back to Tennessee, and since my current job is paying me enough to afford it, I took that chance to finance it!

If your son can afford a house he should go for it! I been told several times that its a good investment and builds up credit, but then if the monthly payments are not affordable for him, then whats the point? On the same note, a decent place can be rented for the same amount which in a way it makes owning a house sorta pointless especially when you dont have the financial burnden of owning a house. But I chose to own a house so I wont be controlled by anyone except making those payments, plus the location its in.

[Nikia]

131. In some rural areas, rent is low

My dad rented a duplex in a small unincorporated "village" that consisted of about 30 house, no post office, and one church. It was about 10 miles from the 20,000 people city. Rent was about half of what would be paid for a similiar place in the "city".

[CRF450]

174. Exactly

My brother rented a nice little house for $400/month, it was originally a garage, but the owner built a house to it. It was almost out in the middle of nowhere.

[Mojambo]

26. That describes me perfectly

I also live real close to my job. Could never afford a long commute.

[CRF450]

42. My job is 60 miles away but I stay at my aunt's camper....

On the night before work days. The first job, I make an honest $400/week for less than 20 hours worth of work/week (paid by the job, not hourly). And the second job is an easy few hundred more the rest of the time on $10/hour just sitting around alot attending a public pool. I spend around 100/week in gas on average. For the first job, I have to use my truck which gets around 16mpg. For the pool attending job, I just take the car, which gets around 22mpg.

[Jed Dilligan]

17. Depends on where you live, benefits, your debts, and how regular the work.

[Breeze54]

30. No One gets "benefits" at $10.00 an hour....

not many anymore and if they do, they are minimal.

People earning $10.00 usually don't work full time hours to qualify them FOR any benefits!!

The corporate pigs like it that way. More for them!! :grr:

[CRF450]

38. Actually some companies such as Lowes offer good benefits.

They start out at a little higher than min wage, and you'll keep getting raises over time moving up in positions. I dont work for them but a friend does, and he's pretty well. Another friend, actually a family friend is a millionare because he was buying their stocks plus the fact that he worked for them for 20 years.

[Breeze54]

51. That is a huge exception. nowadays....

Times have changed and are falling off the cliff for workers... :grr:

[CRF450]

54. I know what your saying

Labor jobs have really gone to shit considering pay and benefits. I get good pay from the jobs I have but no benefits because the small companies I work for is doing seasonal work.

[KatyaR]

83. I supervise two employees who each make $10.25/hr.

One gets benefits because she's full time; the other works 35 hours a week and does not. They do the very same job. The only reason that the second isn't full time is because my asshole boss has to "save some money." Everyone else in the company is spending money like water, but he's proud to be saving about $2,000 a year in wages/benefits. :mad:

I worry every day about both of these women. Times are tough, and I don't know how they're making it on so little income.

[Jed Dilligan]

90. Exactly. But supposing you did work F/T at 10 an hour,

had health coverage/vacation/etc. and lived in a low cost-of-living state, and you weren't in debt, it would be livable I think. Of course I understand that such situations are extremely rare these days.

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

102. White Castle claims to.

Estimated 4.50 dollars an hour in benefits according to their signs, lol

[Nikia]

128. A lot of factory jobs around here start around $10.00

These jobs are usually full time and many of them offer benefits.

[Codedonkey]

142. Recently I was at a "temporary"(heh for me at least) job and I had excellent benefits

I was only making 10.50/hr there... There are a few decent companies out there still...

[tammywammy]

167. There are still places, Starbucks for one

I worked there for 3 years and health insurance was available to me (I was still covered by my parents so I didn't get it).

Also, I work at a car dealership, there are a few people that make around $10/hr and they're all available for health insurance after 90 days. I even started there at $10/hr and had them.

[B Calm]

19. Cheap Labor Conservatism is killing us! The more desperately you

need a job, the cheaper you'll work.

Consider these facts.

Unemployment was 23 percent when FDR took office in 1933. It dropped to 2.5 percent by time the next Republican was in the White House in 1953. It climbed back to 6.5 percent by the end of the Eisenhower administration. It dropped to 3.5 percent by the time LBJ left office. It climbed over 5 percent shortly after Nixon took office, and stayed there for 27 years, until Clinton brought it down to 4.5 percent early in his second term. Now unemployment is going back up at an alarming rate.

[Juche]

21. I read something about that

I think it was Krugman, but he claimed that on economic policy democrats are different from republicans.

Republicans try to keep inflation low, democrats try to expand the economy. As a result when the GOP is in charge inflation is low, but we are likely to enter recession and when the dems are in charge we expand the economy, create millions of jobs and wages go up. but inflation can grow too.

He also said that keeping inflation low benefits the well off, and increasing employment (which raises wages, opportunities and benefits) benefits the working class and middle class.

[Lasher]

57. Democrats are better at controlling inflation

Democratic presidents have a better record on inflation (averaging 3.13 percent compared with 3.89 percent for Republicans) and on unemployment (5.33 percent versus 6.38 percent). Unemployment went down in the average Democratic year, up in the average Republican one.

If you start in 1981 and if you factor in a year's delay, Republican presidents edge out Democratic ones on inflation, 4.57 to 4.36.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20059-2005Apr1.html

[Juche]

68. Didn't know that

I just read that democrats and republicans approach the economy different, with the dems focusing more on employment and the GOP more on inflation.

[Lasher]

70. Did you read the article I linked?

It's a real eye-opener for those who believe the myth that Republicans are good for the economy.

The record shows that the GOP actually doesn't focus more on inflation. They focus on cutting taxes for rich people and their corporations, and on deficit spending.

[Juche]

72. Yeah, but I knew alot of that stuff

Its too bad most voters don't. Under Clinton, the federal budget grew $300 billion in 8 years. Under Bush is grew 1.3 trillion in 8 years.

GDP grows faster under dem presidents too according to charts I've seen.

[Lasher]

77. I worked up a spreadsheet on the S&P 500

It's done far worse under Junior than any other president, ever. I posted it here in February:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3183233&mesg_id=3183419

And check it out, it's now lower than it was when Junior assumed the throne on January 22, 2001 - and that's not even adjusted for inflation! Almost eight long years and a net loss in nonadjusted dollars!

[Evoman]

35. Haha...that's how much I'm making right now.

I share an apartment with my gf (600 a month betweent the two of us), I have 400 dollars a month in student loans and we have cable tv and internet.

Honestly, I could make it on even less if I had to. My gf is making about 11 right now so we both make shitty money (which is funny because we both have degrees..I've applied for jobs that make over 60 grand a week and think I will get one eventually).

Yeah, I don't have a lot of fancy stuff. I have a beater car. And I live in Canada, so I don't buy insurance.

But still..I make it.

Seems to me a lot of people have a sense of entitlement when they make shitty wages..I don't. I buy what I can afford and don't owe a dime past my student loans. I don't buy expensive stuff just because I think I "deserve it".

[Juche]

44. Great

I could survive on $10/hr too here in the midwest. However healthcare, education and real estate are growing extremely fast in price, and wages are not.

Worker productivity is 70% higher than 1979, wages are stagnant.



I think people have earned a sense of entitlement in the form of good healthcare, access to education and the ability to not be wiped out financially by an accident or illness. If you are producing 30-40k a year worth of wealth, getting paid 15k to do it, you can't afford healthcare and are always 2-3 paychecks away from serious problems then you have a right to be pissed.

[El Pinko]

91. Productivity MEANS "more work for less pay".

There are some instances where productivity gains are achied thanks to technological advances, automation, etc. but most productivity gainst in the last couple decades have been achieved by KEEPING WAGES DOWN, replacing proper pensions with 401Ks, proper health insurance with HMOs, etc.

Anyone who thinks "higher productivity" works in the favor of working people is pretty ignorant, IMO.

[Juche]

108. productivity

"Anyone who thinks "higher productivity" works in the favor of working people is pretty ignorant, IMO."

Which is what I said, higher productivity should result in higher wages but it does not. This can probably be tied to the breakdown of organized labor since unorganized workers have no way of demanding better wages and benefits in exchange for more productive labor.

http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/bp195

http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_snapshots_20050421


US workers produce about $35.63 of wealth per hour, far higher than a few decades ago. Wages have stagnated, median wage is $15/hr and has been for a while. In a decade we will be producing $50/hr of wealth and still competing like hell to get paid $15/hr to do it unless we change it.


I seriously doubt ripping off workers for healthcare is why productivity is soaring. Alot of it is due to IT, robotics, better transportation, communication, innovation and things like that.

[El Pinko]

111. "Which is what I said, higher productivity should result in higher wages but it does not."

"Which is what I said, higher productivity should result in higher wages but it does not."

Working people tend to think this way - "If I increase the amount of work I get done during the course of the day for a given time, I ought to deserve a raise".

But the way business owners look at it, the ONLY way it is a productivity increase is if you get more done but DO NOT get a raise. The raise defeats the purpose and nullifies the increase in productivity, from the employer's standpoint.


"US workers produce about $35.63 of wealth per hour, far higher than a few decades ago. Wages have stagnated, median wage is $15/hr and has been for a while. In a decade we will be producing $50/hr of wealth and still competing like hell to get paid $15/hr to do it unless we change it."

Exactly. This is what "higher productivity" means nowadays. Stockholders demand ever-rising profits, but consumers expect prices to never go up, so it's the working people who have consistently had to pay for those profits by never getting a raise. Not giving raises while profits rise=productivity increase. Offshoring jobs to low-wage country=productivity increase.

When you read the words "productivity increase", you should read it as "decreasing the cost of labor, no matter what it takes", because that's what it means to corps.


"I seriously doubt ripping off workers for healthcare is why productivity is soaring. Alot of it is due to IT, robotics, better transportation, communication, innovation and things like that. "

As I said, increases in technology and other efficiencies are a part of it, but that alone is never enough for the stockholders and board members. The nationwide elimination of true health insurance and pensions DEFINITELY has figured into the "productivity increases" of the past decades. Every sort of logistics and labor - related cost is figured into "productivity" numbers.


Only employees think that higher productivity should translate to higher wages. Employers do not, and they haven't for decades. They will pay as little as they can possibly get away with.

[girl gone mad]

49. 60 grand a week?

Where can I apply for a job like that?

[Juche]

53. Google 'emperors club'

after you find the website, ask for an application

[pitohui]

123. but you are dependent on your girlfriend's goodwill

i'm sure it could never happen to you, but say your g/f is cheating on you or develops an alcohol problem and now you've got to kiss her ass and put up with the abuse because you don't earn enough to stand on your own

i don't consider a wage where i have to eat another person's shit to survive to be a fair wage

you may say it will never happen to you and it probably won't but it has happened to literally millions of women over the years

low pay means you have no power in the relationship because you don't have the option of independence so you have to pretty much tolerate ANY kind of abuse

a woman in my town had a wonderful loving husband -- until he was in a car accident, developed swelling of the frontal lobes of the brain, and was completely unable to care about anyone else or use good judgment ever again, and he was only in his 30s, so even if you make the best possible choice of partners, an accident can still happen -- we are always better off if we can be self supporting -- a man i know his wife got MS in her brain and went absolutely batshit insane and blew all their money and got into fights -- "stuff" just happens

[Codedonkey]

164. They only make a $1 difference...

She would need him just as much... Anyways...

[Connonym]

46. If I'm not mistaken that wage put's you at pretty close to the poverty level

I live in medium-sized midwestern town. Working full time at 10 an hour wouldn't really afford you much more than living in a flop house. God help you if you've got to support a family on that kind of money.

I've got a 2 years of college and a technical degree but even so I'm lucky to be making 12 an hour these days. Seven years ago in the same field I was easily making $20-40 an hour working freelance. Wages haven't just stagnated, they've actually decreased and then when you factor in the increased cost of living? Something is seriously fucked up about our economy and I don't know if we're ever going to have a real middle class again.

[Breeze54]

55. The poverty level is $30,000 or below now!!

Fighting Poverty by Creating Opportunity

Greenwich Citizen, CT - 16 hours ago

Citing US Census Data, Brown noted that in 2005, 44.5 percent of female-headed
households with children under five were living in poverty in Fairfield ...

----------------

Current Population Survey (CPS)
A joint effort between the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Census Bureau

Annual Social and Economic (ASEC) Supplement

POV04: Families by Age of Householder, Number of Children, and Family Structure: 2006
Below 50% of Poverty -- All Races
(Numbers in thousands)

http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032007/pov/new04_50_01.htm

Original link: Poverty- Detailed Poverty Tabulations from the CPS
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/detailedpovtabs.html

[Connonym]

61. I guess I'm in good (albeit tragic) company

[Breeze54]

67. 45% of single parent households way below the poverty line

and then some people have the fucking nerve to want to abolish Affirmative Action!! :grr:

Yeah, I'm now "rich" :sarcasm: now that my kids are older than five. :eyes:

That's a crying shame and America should hang their heads on SHAME just for that!! :grr:

I hear you, Connonym :hug:

BTW? I used to call my grandma, 'ConnieMa' and every time I see your name you remind me. ;)

[VotesForWomen]

75. sure, you can live on it...as long as nothing ever goes wrong in your life. nt

[ThomWV]

79. In '82 I made $7/Hr. and we were dead broke. In 2002 I made $36/Hr. and was still broke

No shit.

[ChicagoBurbsMale]

119. Thats almost 70 grand a year

At that salary being broke as you say is poor money management or a person living beyond ones means.

[InkAddict]

151. Making 70 grand a year for 8 weeks out of 52 = isn't

manageable or liveable. After taxes, it amounts to the penury we give our elderly who have no healthcare nor the means to attain a healthy life.

No money management technique in the world will rectify that, and you can't MAKE someone hire you who only serves their own bottom line by hiring undocumented Mexicans, Indian/H1Bs or Chinese sweatshop employees while being financed for their operations by bankers who skirt lawful practice and brokers without common sense but plenty of greed.

Something's gotta change or it's gonna blow!

BITE ME!

[ThomWV]

183. Yep, on all counts

I was so burried in debt that I didn't have a dime - no kidding. A lot of it came from the IRS, who ate me alive, a lot of it came from the life of an alcoholic. I got out of debt and quit drinking, then I retired. Now I have a very small income, no debt, and I live quite happily.

[Greyhound]

86. We seem to be confusing making a living with surviving.

They are not the same thing at all.

[BluePatriot]

87. I started at $10 after college 3 yrs ago.

I work at a small owner operated international freight forwarder w/around 60 employees. It is not the job I want but I try to do a decent job and dust off my degree on occasion...I started where I work now at $10 an hour for 90 days, then was at $12 an hour for a few years, and have worked up to $14.50. I tried living alone on the $12 and it was check to check really. My husband moved in to the same small apt I got on $12 an hour, (rent now $584) and makes approx $14 an hour, so now we save up a lot, and I am glad we tried to make a small space work for us since the economy's going south. The big deal I think is that we also have insurance with no premiums taken out of our pay, for employee, spouse, and dependents all. It's decent insurance too (unlimited cap, low co pays...although they just went up) Working here is the only way I can manage my chronic illness. Many of us here are sick. Diabetics, thyroid, bipolar, COPD, etc. The VP of HR has Crohn's. One guys has seven kids and they are all covered free. One guy had a stroke. He came back after rehab and was not let go. Our owner is British and just believes in paying our insurance, I guess. I also have three weeks paid vacation now after 3 years. Some lifers here have worked up to 5 weeks paid. I'm scared to leave this place, really -- it's spoiled me. The only downside is working Saturdays on occasion, and the stress of the job. Plus the employer's good nature gets taken advantage of easily (the story of the girl smoking crack in the bathroom that wasn't let go for 6 months is legend around here) Also he is set to retire and if he sells this place or the VP takes over it will be a vastly different place to work and I'm sure the bennies will go out the door. Sigh. I'll enjoy it while it lasts I guess.

[GTurck]

88. When they average...

out the cost of living they use everyone including the super-rich to get the figure. I would be interested in seeing what the average percent of income for food is for just the middle, lower middle and working class. I have heard that Americans are lucky because they use only 10% of income for food but that average comes from including everyone who works and receives compensation. Right now we can't get out of the grocery store for less than $160 for 2 older retired adults every 2 weeks with trips for milk, etc in between. We eat well but seldom have steaks or roasts and we make most meals from scratch. Our indulgence, after my husband was treated for colon cancer, has been in more organic foods.
How young people with children and those older who never paid much into Social Security are getting by is anyone's guess. They probably are among the one's caught in the "obesity epidemic". Their bodies are starving but they eat too many calories.
This economy and society are in such deep trouble on every level and I feel so helpless and.......bitter.

[ChicagoBurbsMale]

89. I supervise 32 people

All at 10 an hour, all have medical, dental and a union.

All have apartments/homes, cars, most work every day of the work week, some married some single

Yes you can live on 10 an hour, money management.

[B Calm]

97. How much you make?

[ChicagoBurbsMale]

112. I make

$17.92

[B Calm]

117. almost twice as much as the workers you are judging. Do you think

10 dollars an hour is a fair rate of pay for 2008? Just to let you know I think you are grossy underpaid too.

[ChicagoBurbsMale]

118. Not underpaid

In my field I am above the average, I am in no position to judge "Is it fair" my position is to find people who can perform the job.

I would never start a family at 10 or even 17 an hour.

Let me clarify, a single person can live on 10 dollars an hour :)

[B Calm]

132. I don't know how old you are, but you are underpaid. Companies

have been screwing over wages of employees since the Reagan Era.

[ChicagoBurbsMale]

136. Sorry but

Facts are facts, in my field I am not underpaid.

[B Calm]

153. Ignorance is bliss..

[bread_and_roses]

98. hmmnnnn, and they all live alone? no dual income households?

none have children? Because even with medical and dental, which they no doubt have because they have a union and the the threat of losing those benefits probably prevents them negotiating for raises, you're going to be pinched at $10 per hr. no matter how well you "manage" your money.

$10 per hr is not all that much more, adjusted for inflation, than minimum wage was at its height somewhere around '68, I think it was. Even closer, I imagine, with the recent spikes in food and energy. And manage all you want, you'll be hard put to support an independent household with a decent-running car on $10 per hr.

edit for "those benefits"

[ChicagoBurbsMale]

113. True

Some are married and spouses work

I never said 10 an hour was easy, just stating facts I have first hand information about.

[ChicagoBurbsMale]

141. Also...........

Am I wrong thinking someone making 10 dollars an hour and thinking of starting a family should rethink that decision?

[bread_and_roses]

155. Yes, you are wrong. Only under capitalism is the human love of and desire for

children expected to be predicated on your hourly wage. For most humans, it is their human connections, including their children, that give meaning to their lives - not ringing up sales at a cash register.*

Society should re-think arranging itself so as to make work/childen incompatable.

*meaningful work - at all levels of skill - can indeed be important in a life: keeping the streets free of garbage is meaningful, for instance, as contributing to a livable commons; medicine is meaningful as contributing to the well-being of our fellows, for two examples. But we've created a society where too few have the opportunity to do meaningful work. Pushing paper around a bank or stock exchange, or stocking a dollar store full of cheap brik-a-brack made by near-slave labor in some sweatshop is not meaningful work. Which is why so many people have to lose themselves and escape their lives watching "the stars" on TV or praying for a lottery win.

[conflictgirl]

160. What about those of us who had the kids first and then got the wage cuts?

I guess none of us should ever have kids when we're doing fairly well financially because we never know if 5 years down the road we'll lose our jobs and be unable to find wages like we were making before. :eyes:

[ChicagoBurbsMale]

163. pull the old boot straps up

as the saying goes

[conflictgirl]

100. I'm assuming none of them have children

My husband makes $15/hour and I make around minimum wage, only part-time - we have 3 children and even though his employer offers benefits, we only pay for them for ourselves because we cannot afford them for our kids. We applied for the state low-income health plan for our kids and they told us we made too little to qualify and put them on straight medicaid instead. If this is "making it" it's only in the most basic sense of survival. We have 2 older cars, both with well over 120K miles, and live in fear of the cars needing repairs. Last year both cars needed a $500 repair within a month of each other and it completely wiped out all the money we'd been able to save, which was also supposed to include a Christmas fund. "Money management," my ass...it's just plain hard to make it on $10/hr if you have children and you have to pray nothing goes wrong.

[ChicagoBurbsMale]

114. Again

I never said it was easy

[B Calm]

104. Hit and run?

[ChicagoBurbsMale]

115. No

More to do than cruise this forum 24/7

[EndElectoral]

92. This thread makes me understand Obama's bitter remarks

[DireStrike]

93. Depends where you live

I might even be able to survive on that here in NY... with roomates... but I'd be living as a pauper. With my current part time 9/hr job, I'm considering moving out... but I'd be dependant on student loans.

[TheFarseer]

95. you can make it on $10/hr around here

but you won't be living too high on the hog and you can't have kids.

[varelse]

99. It is about $5 per hour below

what the average person needs to earn in my county, in order to support themselves. This is largely due to high rent and cost of living in this area. In other places in the country, it may still be a living wage. Here, it is not.

[XemaSab]

101. That ain't shit here in California

1600 a month before taxes does not go anywhere when rent is 900 and gas is 3.75.

[bighart]

106. How to we combat the raise in prices that accompanies a raise in wages?

Our economy is capitalist and as a result when wages go up so do prices. Companies are in business to make profit and if publicly traded accountable to stock holders. How do we offset this?

[Juche]

110. Wages for low wage workers can be a small part of the budget

At walmart, for every extra $1/hr paid to its low wage workers, prices would go up by 0.5%. At big box retailers like Kmart, Walmart, Target, Staples, etc the wages of low paid workers makes up maybe 5-10% of the budget (I forget the exact number, but it isn't that high). The rest goes to other areas like advertising, construction, energy, buying products, etc. Then again it can cause a ripple effect when all low wage workers get paid more. I really don't know how to combat inflation, but if they paid for higher wages for people at the bottom by cutting wages a bit for people near the top I'd be ok with that. Taking $10/hr out of the wages of a highly paid worker in Kmart's marketing department to increase wages by $2.50/hr for 4 workers is fine by me.

[bighart]

157. I was a Wal-Mart Manager for many years,

and I can tell you definitively that payroll is considered the easiest to control of the "controllable" expenses. Wages were generally between 11% and 15% of sales. Corporate would like the figure to be as low as possible and still have "adequate" coverage in the store. When sales are off stores are mandated to cut payroll, and with the way the bonus system is set up it is in the managers interest to do so. When wages increase and sales remain the same two things WILL happen, hours are cut and people are not replaced if they quit or get fired. This is not a maybe, it is a certainty. The very people that are intended to be helped by a raise in wages are the ones who get hurt. When minimum wage increase there are hiring freezes put in place and hours are cut until price increases are completed to the point where staffing can be raised back to the same level with no increase in the percentage of payroll to sales can be kept at the same level it was previously or even reduced a bit. These are facts and I know them to be true by first hand experience.

[Lars39]

159. When bonuses for the managers can run from $35K on up,

the problem isn't minimum wage increases, it's greed.

[bighart]

161. I don't disagree in theory,

however I don't know if you realize the number of hours a manager for Wal-Mart has to put in or the "sacrifice" that is required. I understand that it is a choice that those in those jobs make, but the financial incentive is a part of the reason they are willing to make it. Part of the reason I left Wal-Mart was the fact that I was having a very hard time justifying reducing hours for people I knew where struggling to make ends meet, but I did not have a choice. Even if I was willing to sacrifice part of my bonus for their benefit many of the hourly folks didn't want me to run higher than average payroll because they get a bonus from store profit as well and wanted it to be as high as possible, not to mention the phone calls from higher levels of management, district managers etc., demanding that I get my payroll in line. It is more than greed on the part of the managers, much more, it is accountability to stockholders and corporate culture in general. If you have never been in this kind of situation it is very high pressure.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

116. Depends on *many factors*

Including location and situation

Two married people making 10$ an hour (working say 35 hours a week) are making thirty six thousand a year..

[Aviation Pro]

120. If one is working 40 hours/week....

...not bad because the organization would have to offer benefits. However, businesses routinely reduce the number of hours and strip employees of benefits.

[pitohui]

121. $400 a week before taxes? "not bad?" really?

there must be something wrong w. my math this morning, because i'm getting $10 an hour times 40 hours a week as $400 a week to live on -- BEFORE taxes and social security deducations

it just isn't enough unless you have a promise from god that you will never be sick, never be injured in an accident, and never get old

these days even in louisiana how do you even get an apartment or house for that? maybe a motor home 100 miles out in the countryside from your $10/hr job but then how do you pay for the gas to keep your car running?

[Aviation Pro]

122. 1600/month

19200/year. For a single person, starting out, manageable. Incidentally, most First Officers starting out on a regional jet start at this pay. Again, provided benefits are paid, this is manageable. If you're talking about a family then this is a different story and requires the husband/wife to also have a job.

[pitohui]

124. i've heard that about the regional jets

i think the pay is shameful

i don't agree it's "manageable" unless the supposedly single person is actually living with someone else, which i suspect must almost always be the case

independence for the full time worker is just a dream at that rate of pay

we do have many illegal imigrants getting that rate of pay, but they're packed many men to a tent or a trailer (benefits are not happening but as they are getting paid in cash then i guess it's a wash since they are not paying taxes either)

[Aviation Pro]

125. It was a self-inflicted would by pilots that caused that shameful situation...

...the prevalent attitude has been and still is, "I'll fly for free," or "I'll fly for food."

Although my pilot brothers and sisters are a pretty smart lot they can be dirt stupid when it comes to the business.

[fighterdem6]

126. very low income

$10 helps you get by in a small 1 bedroom apartment with a roomate who also pays rent. That is it. And if you have children you are in trouble.

[Nikia]

129. A number of people around here think that is "good money"

Which is sad.
They are going to build a super Walmart here. Walmart says that their average wage is around $11.00/hour, which happens to be about the average wage around here anyway even when including the wages of college educated professionals like nurses and accountants. There are people who cannot wait so they can apply.
There are several factories here, but they usually pay around $10.00 or even less.
The cost of housing is inexpensive. You can rent apartments here for around $400 per month. You can buy houses for $40,000. There are almost no houses in town for over $150,000 . Despite this, many young people live "at home". I think that low wages also encourage people to move in with one another fairly quickly because it helps to have another person to cover expenses.
I would characterize the town as a whole as economically depressed. I think that when I look for my next job, I will try not to move into such a town despite the low cost of housing. It is rather depressing, and I am not sure what can be done.

[ChicagoBurbsMale]

130. Since I cant start a thread yet, what job do poster/responders have

I am an account manager

Curious what jobs people have who posted in this thread?

[Trillo]

133. Based upon 1995 census and income figures

and upon the number of hours high school graduates spent sitting in a classroom chair versus professionals, minimum wage for HS grads should be in the $21.00 per hour range.

Your figure, $10 per hour is about half that.

With all the inflation recently, food and gas particularly, and since rents are reported to still be rising in the face of falling home prices, I'd say it's time for the Democrats to raise the minimum again, as it appears it has now been more-than-fully discounted.

[Lars39]

134. Here's a *very* rough estimate of a budget of $1600/month gross...

Rent..say $400/month
Utilities $200/month
Ins,Health $200/month
Car pmt $200/month
Car Ins $75/month
Gas $100/month
Food $200/month
Meds $30/month
Clothing $50/month
Dental
Medical Bills

$1600/month gross doesn't even begin to legitimately cover the expenses listed. With milk, bread, eggs and potatoes costing a full $10/hour pay, and seeming to go up weekly, $10/hour should at least become the new minimum wage.

[Juche]

144. It doesn't need to be that high

Depending on where you live, budgets can be lower. And I fully agree with what everyone is saying that we are ripping off workers. As I have said above, I think the death of the union movement is a big part. And I sadly relate to the poster above who said $10/hr was considered good money. For me, I would love to be making $10/hr right now.

But for your stats, they can be lower. Rent is $500-600 for a 2 bedroom, utilities are $100 when split 2 ways (I'm guessing you were talking about not having a roommate for your figures, but at $10/hr you pretty much need one). High deductible health insurance for a young healthy person with no dependents is only about $40/month where I live (and will probably disappear the day you need it though). Car Payments can be lower than $200, a decent used car is only $4000-5000. I have a car I bought for $6000 back in 2001 and I haven't had many problems with it. Car insurance can be $30-40/month. Ironically I spend more than $200/month on fod, but I eat about 4500 calories a day.

Overall if you have a roommate, shop around and cut corners here and there you can save $500 off the budget you posted. I would say in my experience (as someone who was just in college, and expect to work low wage jobs for a good while for various reason) these are my estimates.

Rent $250/month
Utilities $100/month
Ins,Health $50/month
Car pmt $130/month
Car Ins $40/month
Gas $100/month
Food $200/month
Meds $30/month
Clothing $50/month
Dental (works out to about $20/month if you have a dental discount, brush reguarly and only need fillings)
Medical Bills (health insurance w/a 2500 deductible that probably won't pay a damn thing, so this is variable)


Its possible to get by on $10/hr. Just don't have any kids, serious health problems, dependents (siblings, parents), large amts of debt, live in a high rent area or anything else like that. That excludes about 75% of the population who have these factors though. Only young, relatively healthy singles like myself who live in low cost areas can probably get by in 2008 on $10/hr.

[Lars39]

145. I think you're low-balling health insurance...

and dental insurance or coverage for eyeglasses is almost a thing of the past.
All it takes is the need for one MRI and the budget is blown for years to come.
Car repairs are another budget buster.
Also, with cheap rentals, utilities are usually higher because the insulation is practically non-existant.
We didn't factor in those pesky student loans, either. :(

[Juche]

147. My health insurance is about $35/month

As far as eyeglasses, I just go to zenni optical and buy a pair for $30.

Health insurance I buy through ehealthinsurance. For some reason I am checking quotes now and they are 2x what they were last time. I bought my high ded. insurance for $32/month, now they are all $60/month. Unless something happened in the last month to double the prices I have no idea what thats about.


I agree with what you are saying, one MRI and you have loaded up a grand or more in debt.

[Lars39]

148. MRIs cost around $3500 or more.

I have a $2000 deductible, so I'm out that plus whatever the insurance company decides it is not going to pay. It's like a roll of the dice sometimes, trying to figure out what they'll pay and what they won't. Last year I had to get an MRI out of network...$4100, and we're still making the payments. :(

[Juche]

149. Its a problem

I'm not trying to claim that anyone who actually needs healthcare can get it for $35/month. My health insurance is more for the $100k bills that may come up if I get cancer. And even then, I'm sure they will avoid covering as much as possible. We need a patients bill of rights.

[TwixVoy]

150. A lot of people do not understand health insurance

For example, a lot of people I work with opt for the HSA Plan. A POS plan that has a $5000 deductable. They COULD choose a PPO plan with a $1000 deductable for about $15 more bi-weekly. The logic is "Nothing will ever happen to me for a long time so I will be fine".... but if you are making 7.50/hr that $5000 deductable is going to destroy you if anything ever DOES happen.

[Codedonkey]

165. I currently pay $19/mo in total for vision, medical and dental...

[TwixVoy]

168. Is the medical "consumer driven"

HSA plan perhaps?

[Codedonkey]

170. I had to look that up to see what it was...

but I don't think so... That term was never mentioned by the HR folks nor was it in any of the documentation...

One thing I do know is that the fees were low for me, but based on the chart they had the people with families paid significantly more....

[TwixVoy]

175. Consumer driven health care

Is a new scheme the republicans passed through congress after bush took office.

The worst of them is "Health Savings Accounts". You pay a low monthly premium, but the coverage and deductable will destroy you if you ever have a serious medical event. Basically your premium goes in to a "savings" account. It has tax benefits (but they won't help you much if your poor, which is the kind of person likely to choose this plan). So basically you "save" for your medical costs. Of course if all of a sudden you get cancer and have a $100,000 bill in a few months time you are SOL.

There are also HRA plans, which are slightly better but not by much.

[Lars39]

177. Our total medical is about $650...no dental or vision.

You must be extremely young and healthy. That changes, you know. :)

[Codedonkey]

178. never! I'm invincible and will never get old.

[DS1]

146. I was getting 10/hr at a 7-Eleven in 1990

for a high school kid, it was good money.

[durutti]

152. Best bet for decent minimum wage, probably.

In the early 2000s, studies credibly suggested $8.50/hour as a basic minimum living standard, taking into account average cost of living across the country. If I had to guess, $10 would be about right today.

[Jack Rabbit]

156. That's about $21K/yr.

No champagne and caviar on that budget, that's for sure.

[BlooInBloo]

158. I don't remember that "a few" years ago, no.

[readmoreoften]

162. At NYU last year I made 16K/no benefits teaching full-time. And they said I made $93 an hour.

They said it was $93 an hour because they only paid me for the time I was actually scheduled to be in the classroom--not for office hours, lecture preparation, syllabus and course design, reading and grading papers, photocopying, answering student emails (which usually came down to 6-8 a day), and filling out the universities paperwork and assessments.

I taught 2 courses a semester, plus independent studies, and I was a graduation panel advisory member for 7 different seniors. For each student who chose me as a panel advisor, I had to quiz them on 25 books of their choosing for 2 hours (sometimes outside my field, so I had to research them on my own time) in addition to reading and commenting on their 25 page papers. It paid $55 per student. My students paid 46K a year in tuition to take four courses. My classes were capped at 30 students. And I was so poor that when my bookbag fell apart, I had to use duct tape to keep it together. The entire college that I worked in (the school within the university) only had 2 tenured faculty. The other close to 100 faculty were adjuncts like myself. For a school with 7 floors of offices, we only had 3 copying machines that everyone had to share. So the university kindly requested that we pay for our own photocopies. I used their photocopy machine anyway. It was literally choose between being able to make photocopies for my students or eat. Luckily, I was in an department were the secretaries and so forth were sympathetic.

The room I rented (in someone else's apartment always with 4-6 roommate-strangers off craigslist) cost $1000 a month plus about $150 in utilities. We lived in a commercial space and on weekends we had no heat in the NYC winter. You could see your breath in my room at night.

Extreme capitalism. Total hypocrisy.

[The Gunslinger]

172. It should be minimum wage.

$10/hr is nothing.

[Monk06]

173. As one 'General Contractor' told me, "the minimum wage necessary too....

prevent my power tools from ending up in
a pawn shop."

I shit you not!!! This is how the petty bourgeois
entrepreneur thinks.

[XOKCowboy]

176. Sounds like he's a pretty astute guy...

He's been watching his Republican mentors and mimicking their practices.

I'm glad not all GCs are that way. I'm also glad that I'm an independent contractor. I just sell my self and my skills. It's easier that way. I may not ever be uber-rich but I'm happy with that.

[DFW]

184. My younger daughter made $25 an hour last year

And that was part time while in her senior year of undergrad college.
But she found a niche job. She is bi-lingual in English and German,
and someone pointed her to an international law firm in DC that needed
lots of documents translated coherently from German to English and back,
and in a hurry. If it weren't for that, she would have had to compete with
the normal mortals in her class for baby-sitting and waitressing jobs.

The law firm even offered to take her on full time at that rate, but as
that would have meant not getting her graduate degree, she VERY reluctantly
passed. I'm sure that kind of money would let someone live decently, even
in Northwest Washington DC, which is not cheap.