Chavez: Hosting American economic refugees

[Joanne98]

Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:09:07

President Hugo Chavez says that his country might some day host economic refugees if the US economy worsens and goes beyond control.

“Look at the crisis that the United States is regrettably going into. We don’t wish a crisis upon anybody, a terrible economic crisis,” AP quoted Chavez as saying on Friday.

“Hundreds of thousands of families are being left in the street. I think if things continue on like this in the United States, we’ll have to start preparing to receive the refugees here,” he added.

The US remains the leading buyer of Venezuelan oil, but the two countries are at odds over war in Iraq as well as the country’s definition on terrorism.

The US State Department has claimed that Venezuela does not fully cooperate in anti-terrorism efforts.
http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2008/04/11/chavez-hosting-american-economic-refugees/

It's nice to know somebody cares about us. Thankyou President Chavez!

[mac2]

1. And the have it right about who the "terrorists" were in America.

[Glorfindel]

2. I wouldn't mind going there, actually

Maybe I should start taking Spanish lessons!

[Boojatta]

16. Do you need to take Spanish lessons before they'll let you in?

Do they have strict immigration laws? Do they monitor tourists to see that they don't take classes and don't do internet-based work and don't work as sole proprietors without prior approval from immigration authorities?

Edited to add:
this thread reminds me of a thread in the DU Latin America forum.

[KillCapitalism]

34. Me either.

34 degrees here tonight in mid-April...yeah I'd go there in a heartbeat.

[Xenotime]

52. I agree. It's looking better and better all the time..

It would be nice to put this country behind us and watch it rot from a distance.

[Larkspur]

3. Chavez is selling heating oil to poor people in the US

via one of the Kennedys at basically wholesale price. Chavez cares more about our poor than our current Prez and many of our Dem leaders.

[sharesunited]

4. When he hands off power to a democratically elected successor

I will feel even better about the guy.

[Smith_3]

5. Unless you can provide background ...

...as to how exactly Chavez ISN'T democratically elected by the people of
Venezuela, stop spreading right wing propaganda.

[sharesunited]

6. I didn't mean to imply he doesn't have popular support.

He clearly does, in order to be able to survive the coup attempts and recall vote.

(Recall vote certified clean by the Carter Center.)

But if Chavez is to be the new improved Castro, he needs to get off his president-for-life kick and let the movement have its own identity above and beyond just him him him.

[noamnety]

7. I see you are new here.

That talking point has already been debunked multiple times.

[sharesunited]

9. What "talking point??" The cult of personality?

Hey, I like Hugo Chavez, and so do Venezuelans. But George Washington stepped aside in favor of the process. That's what will hopefully distinguish Chavez from Castro or Mugabwe for that matter.

[mac2]

15. George Washington left his country to other founders to rule

not Neo Cons (globalists) who didn't believe in democracy.

[JohnnyCougar]

30. This is the talking point:

Chavez tried to make himself president for life.

Rescinding presidential term limits is not "president for life." He, like FDR or all of our Senators, would still have to be elected every time.

[Boojatta]

17. The comparison with Castro...

did omit any mention of when Chavez ever made it illegal for citizens of Venezuela to own a cell phone.

[RainDog]

11. Also factor in

that Chavez refused to accept shipment on the same voting machines to tally his election a few years back... I've looked for the link to this, quickly, but all I come up with is countercharges of Chavez's "links" to Sequoia.

Maybe Greg Palast has the info.. if he didn't write about it, I'm sure he's aware of the story b/c of his past work.

anyway, the same machines that were used to steal the 2000 election (and 2004 via Ohio) were not installed in Venezuela and isn't it amazing that the right wing cannot get him out of office after sooo many attempts? I don't think Chavez is perfect, but I would hesitate to believe anything the msm in the U.S. says about Chavez since he's probably no. 1 on their hit list b/c of V's oil and b/c he toppled the ruling class and b/c that ruling class is supported by the oiligarchy here.

in any case, let Venezuela work out its own destiny.

Who in the U.S. can make any statement about or accusation against Chavez when you look at the federal govt here? We have war criminals who made sure a video of Saddam was published online. That's the pornography of the powerful. Our nation has raped and murdered women and children after an illegal invasion and NO ONE in the legal/govt system here with the power to do so is demanding that the American people deal with this fact. The media here is complicit with these rapists... so I guess I have a hard time worrying about Chavez when I look at what needs to be done in my own backyard.

[mac2]

12. Neither Castro or Chavez have profited as leaders.

They have no great wealth or we would have heard about it. They are really worried about their country and citizens being destroyed by Empire builders. They killed and stole from them in the past.

Until popular support drops to a low level (like Bush) in their country they should remain in power. Who are we to choose leaders around the world?

[erpowers]

48. President for Life Thing

I may be wrong, but I think you are misunderstanding the president for life thing. I think it was said that Chavez was not trying to be president for life, but that he was trying to remove term limits. What he was actually trying to do was allow for himself to be elected forever. There would still be elections, but he would always be able to run in those elections. Go down to the part in the link about constitutions referendum. I think a number of media outlets in America got it wrong when this was first announced that Chavez was trying to be president for life and they may not have made that much of a big deal when it was revealed that Chavez had only called for an end of presidential term limits, not for him to allowed to be president forever without elections.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_chavez

[mac2]

53. Maybe we have yet to see if Venezuela can survive the Americas threat to their country.

What's the difference with President for life political parties which are the same and ignore the people? Both are for Empire and corporations.

[warren pease]

22. Can you wait until his term expires in 2012, or does he need to prove his pure intentions by...

... going one better and resigning now? At the time of the vote, he basically grinned and said OK, the people have spoken. What has he done since that causes you to question his intentions going forward? Does he strike you as the same type of power-crazed serial liar as the scumbags who pollute the Bush regime?

I think you're so accustomed to being ruled by plutocrats and kleptocrats and malevolent oligarchs and corporate elites that it's almost impossible to recognize a populist leader when you see one. Nevertheless, between Brazil, Uruguay, Venezuela, Ecuador, Chile, Bolivia and Argentina, there's some serious rejection of the American way going on in Central and South America. Even Daniel Ortega's back in Nicaragua.

Btw, just for laughs, here's a classic right wing media characterization of the results of those elections:

From Reuters: President Chavez crashes to an unprecedented defeat as Venezuelans reject his bid to run for reelection indefinitely and accelerate his socialist revolution in the OPEC nation.

Mind you, the referendum lost about 51% - 49% -- not that I wanted it to pass either, but when I were a gernilust I would have had my thumbs broken for writing a lead like that. Verbs like "crashes" and modifiers like "unprecedented" were prohibited in straight news writing. And in this case, it's pretty tough to claim a 51-49 split as a "crash" and something as fungible as election results "unprecedented."

In contrast, Fox seems positively "fair and balanced:"

CARACAS, Venezuela — Hugo Chavez could have a shot at becoming president for life if voters approve a sweeping overhaul of the constitution Sunday that would give him unchecked power to reshape Venezuela's government, economy and society.

That's a bit more like it.

Meanwhile, I'm happy to see him doing stuff that's both necessary and (should be) embarrassing to BushCo. That heating oil delivery to the east coast was a genius PR move, particularly when the Bushies were busy filling the tanks of military vehicles on occupation duty and flipping off the US population.

Now the very concept of a Latin American country offering economic sanctuary to Americans, who've traditionally viewed everything south of the Rio Grande as some kind of breeding ground for disposable brown yard workers and bus boys, is absolutely hilarious.

Imagine how your classic wingnut racist border-closing bigoted moran sees that kind of offer. I'll leave it to you to supply the appropriate sentence structure, misspellings and cuss words. It's easy and fun for the whole family.


wp

[enid602]

8. considerate

That's considerate of him; we've been hosting their's for years.

[justinaforjustice]

14. Chavez's Venezuela is a Model For A Free and Just Society

U.S. oil corporations took billions of dollars in excessive profits from Venezuelan oil for many years, thanks to sweet-heart contracts with former Venezuelan governments. These profits didn't go to the majority of American people but to a small group of wealthy shareholders and senior oil company executives.


Since Chavez was elected to office in 1998, he has stopped the theft of Venezuelan oil resources by nationalizing the oil companies (and paying the U.S. corporations for their investments). Now he is using the oil profits to provide free medical care to all Venezuelans, free technical training and university education to the doctoral level, esthetically pleasing public housing, and subsidized food to the entire population.

In addition, he is using the oil profits to assist other countries in the Americas, including the U.S., with low cost oil and gas. Where are U.S. oil profits going? Certainly, not to help the poor.

President Chavez has repeatedly won re-election in internationally monitored elections. He lost the last national referendum on his proposed constitutional reforms in 2006 by a few percentage points and immediately conceded defeat to the opposition.

President Chavez was officially asked by the Colombian government to negotiate release of hostages held by the Colombia opposition, FARC, but his efforts were then repeatedly obstructed by Colombia's president, Uribe and his Minster for Defense, who, with the help of the Bush-Cheney government, recently bombed the camp of the FARC representative who was negotiating the release of famous French-Colombia hostage, Ingrid Bettancourt. The death of the FARC negotiator, has perhaps permanently ended the chances for Bettancourt's release.

The U.S. and Colombia are now using Chavez's requested efforts to negotiate the hostages release to claim that Chavez has contacts with the FARC and is supporting them. This is preparatory to their desire to list Venezuela as "a terrorist supporting country" in order to impose trade sanctions and destabilize Chavez's government.

The Bush-Cheney administration wants to control the world's oil supplies in order to control the world. President Chavez has stood up to their efforts, thus their continuing campaign to remove him and his government from power in Venezuela.

Just as Bush-Cheney lied about Saddam's supposed weapons of mass destruction, so it is lying about Chavez's supposed "dictatorship" in Venezuela. I have lived in Venezuela for the past year. This is a thriving democracy, with many newspaper and television stations freely publishing opposition views, certainly many more than are in existence in the United States.

Bush-Cheney's unregulated capitalism has destroyed the U.S. economy by exporting our manufacturing jobs. It is bringing death and destruction throughout the world. Chavez's mixed and regulated economy is improving the living standards of all its citizens. New businesses are popping up all over, construction is booming, and the economy is growing at over 10 per cent a year and poverty has been dramatically reduced. The Venezuelan government is subsidizing with low interest loans the creation of new businesses and cooperatives. Community councils are being established and funded so local people can control the governmental decisions that affect their lives.

No person or government is perfect and it is long, hard work to create a new society based on human values. There are still problems here, such as street crime but the Chavez government is taking active steps to deal with the crime through better policing, job training, sports programs and local community involvement.

President Chavez is a visionary who is leading the development of a new, human society based on humane values not on the blood-sucking capitalist profit motive. His efforts need to be supported and emulated by every one who seeks a free, just, humane society.

[Dreamer Tatum]

18. Is this a book report, or an opinion?

I would bet anything that by any metric imaginable, the poor in the US are better off here than in Venezuela.

The United States is 8th in per capita GDP (PPP). Venezuela is 62nd. The US taking Venezuelan refugees (probably without our knowledge) is called business as usual. Them claiming willingness to take ours is called a political stunt. Otherwise, this story would have Chavez offering economic asylum to those from Romania, Iran, Brazil, the Ukraine, and many, many others.

Great, Hugo, you have oil. Sell it, feed your people, and shut the fuck up.

[Judi Lynn]

20. You are foolish beyond understanding to attempt to compare 2 wildly different sets of circumstances.

You need to spend some time growing up, and a hell of a lot of time attempting to think things through.

[Dreamer Tatum]

21. Wildly different? Poor is poor.

I need to "grow up" to smell political grandstanding? Sorry, I don't wear Chavez-goggles. Let him tend to his own poor before making fatuous offers, or at least let him extend his largesse to peoples whose poorness is measured in mouthfuls of rice rather than foreclosures of mortgages.

[Judi Lynn]

23. Tending to the poor has been the point of his Presidency. You need to spend some time doing your

homework, so you actually have a grasp of the subject you're attempting to discuss.

Take time to have a picture of Venezuela's history, and his place in it. It's the very least you could do if you want anyone to take what you're attempting to say seriously.

Have a factual foundation to stand on if you're going to address issues.

[Dreamer Tatum]

24. Stop attacking me personally. It makes you look stupid, which you probably aren't. Probably.

I have a very keen grasp of the subject, which you haven't even sort of addressed. Instead, you've spent all your time attacking me.
The subject matter is simple: Hugo Chavez is attempting to embarrass the federal, state, and local leadership in the United States by
publicly fretting over some need to offer economic asylum. Do they need to be embarrassed? Of COURSE they do. Is Hugo Chavez the best
hope for the poor in this country? Probably not...I think most of us assume that Obama or Hillary, and state/local candidates, are that hope.

My point is very simple: let Chavez tend to his own knitting, as he has issues of his own when it comes to the economic wellbeing of his
own people. If he HAS to pat himself on the back by offering aid to the less fortunate, then let him replace "United States" with, oh, any
one of a hundred countries that are actually poorer than his. Some of which, in fact, are right next door to him.

I don't need to know jack about Venezuela's history to know that Chavez has a pot of issues of his own to deal with. People trying to
erect socialist paradise have more on their plate than blowing raspberries at richer coutries which are merely suffering from misallocation
of resources and priorities.

Now then - try to compose a sentence that doesn't contain an ad hominem attack, and this might be a discussion.

[JohnnyCougar]

29. You should direct all that energy at our own government.

The US likes to grandstand about how great and Utopian it is over here, as our rankings in standard of living indicators continue to slide. Interesting that you have an avatar of Karl Marx, yet when comparing countries, you use the GDP per capita statistic. You do know that most of our middle and lower class see very little of that GDP productively put to use in their own daily lives, don't you? Someone with a Marx avatar should at least understand that.

[mac2]

31. Who ignore their own poor and homeless.

[Dreamer Tatum]

35. I chose the avatar because I like imagining Marx eating chili

Sorry I'm not raging more against the machine.

[JohnnyCougar]

36. You think it's raging against the machine?

That's funny. I take human rights more seriously than that.

[Dreamer Tatum]

37. I get the idea you take a lot of things pretty seriously.

Yeah, we need more equal income distribution. I just don't think Chavez has a serious dog in that hunt.

[BeHereNow]

41. Obama or Hillary are that hope?

Boy, are you in for a rude awakening.
BHN

[mac2]

26. The world bankers bankrupted them when they talked them

into loans and then increased the interest rates. They have paid off their loans and won't borrow again from the world bankers. They set up their own banks.

Empire Building have no concern about the citizens when they destroy a country for profit.

[BeHereNow]

42. Citizens are considered "renewable resources" to the powers that be.

Something Americans have, until perhaps recently, failed to
understand.
Yes Americans, you are disposable to the global elite.
BHN

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

39. " Great, Hugo, you have oil. Sell it, feed your people, and shut the F up"

BRAVO!

:applause:

[tama]

44. "shut the fuck up"

Yes, the most irritating thing to neocolonialists about Chavez seems to be that he does not "shut the fuck up" but by "speaking truth to power" challenges the neoliberal Washington consensus narrative very efficiently, making big headlines most times he opens his mouth. It is easy to see that Venezuela's progress during Chavez leadership is hurting US national pride a great deal and even more so, the vain hopes of a "New American Century" of continued neocolonialist global rule - into which both wings of the corporate party of US put all their hope, instead of doing anything to feed, clothe and provide shelter for growing masses of US poor, to address the failing infrastructure, etc.

There is a decisive "metric" that makes all the difference between US poor and Venezuelan poor: hope! In US I see only growing apathy, frustration and fear - and the usual fascist blame games - as the US economy and global capitalism with it are heading towards depression and collapse; but in Venezuela the revolution (that has allready dropped poverty from about 50% to 25%, among other successes) has given hope and empowered the masses to take no shit no more from neoliberal neocolonialists.

So what Chavez is speaking here about is the opposite directions of US economy (about to collapse) and Venezuelan economy (creating increasingly better social standards). So it's rather time for the neocolonialist to "shut the fuck up", stop bitching about their hopelessly failing Empire of Greed and and start doing something to help their fellow men. But that is so very hard, isn't it, when Venezuela is allready showing greater compassion to US poor than those who claim that the growing masses of US poor are doing just fine, cause that is what GDP numbers show...

[Judi Lynn]

19. You posts carry a lot of weight with many of us. Thanks. n/t

[JohnnyCougar]

28. That's one of the best posts I've seen on DU in a long time!

Thanks for posting, and welcome!

[RainDog]

25. for the record- your post does not commend you.

Maybe you aren't so knee-jerk most of the time - maybe just when it comes to brown and black people? funny but when I lived in Florida, the Venezuelan bank officers and business owners who lived in upper middle class neighborhoods and drove bmw-s who were well educated in their nations and who could move back and forth... didn't seem like they were such a drain on our tax dollars.

generalizations about the brown people who want to come here should perhaps be presented with a few realities about life in those nations over the last decades... (beyond the fact that not everyone here from another nation is here because they are poor and brown.)

maybe some realities like...

U.S. illegal support for fascists in Central America and South America, for death squads... for rounding up student protesters and dropping them out of airplanes over the ocean while still alive...

more realities - the females who were kidnapped, while pregnant, who gave birth to their babies that were then handed over to members of the governing class and then murdered... now why would anyone want to escape a situation like that?

Since Chili overthrew their military dictator, they've had truth hearings and facts have been made known about murders like the above... and murders of Americans, too, who didn't support fascists. Did you know Henry Kissinger cannot travel to about 6 nations w/o threat of arrest for war crimes b/c of his support for Pinochet?

Read Robert Parry's book, Lost History. He is a Pulitzer-nominated former reporter for Newsweek who unveiled Iran-Contra here - an illegal action for which Ollie North should have been dealt with by firing squad. For which his little fuckwad of a secretary said.. sometimes you have to do something even if it's illegal, or some such bullshit, to justify helping to murder and rape nuns. And priests like Romero.

Parry is the person who runs Consortium News online. He has excerpts from his work there. You might learn something.

It disgusts me to see people post insults on this board about nations and peoples that have had to suffer under IMF policies (hey, did you know Argentina told the IMF to go fuck itself and NOW, after they've given the finger to the oiligarchs and power fuckers, their economy is recovering from the policies of past right wing dictators? pretty amazing, really.

also amazing how little you will learn any of this if you rely on American media to inform you. For a lot of ppl on DU, the Chavez coup in april 2002 was an eye-opener because Greg Palast wrote that it was coming in January of that year and so ppl here were watching the news waiting to see if it happened.. .and it did... and the U.S. media (including the NYTimes) played along until Chavez was returned to power.

Bet you didn't hear that via U.S. television media either. In fact, you simply don't hear American Greg Palast via American mainstream media, tho he was on a 60 minutes style news program on BBC for years. The BBC is basically the news outlet of record for television and radio in GB.

So why don't you get a little education about recent history before you insult entire nations of people who have had to live with the consequences of right wing thugs here in the U.S.?

just an idea...

oh, and there ARE veterans from the Reagan era who will talk about these abuses... but you don't hear them here either, do you?

[erpowers]

49. Which Ones

I am not trying to debate you on this issue, I just want a list of the people from the Reagan era who have talked about the abuses. I had heard about some of the abuses I had just never heard about them from Reagan insiders.

[enid602]

50. tedious

I've spent a lot of time in Caracas and Maracaibo on business, and in Miami, too. I'm aware that a lot of upper-crust venezolanos moved to Florida with their money. Still, I'm not sure the majority of venezolanos in Miami are wealthy, and I can tell you from first-hand experience (I attend a Venezuelan Christmas party here in Phoenix) that the majority of Venezuelans in Arizona were poor prior to their arrival to the states.

I merely meant to say (in my previous post) that it's a bit presumptuous of Chavez to think that Venezuela can offer sanctuary to unemployed Americans, given the the state of poverty in Venezuela, and the number of poor venezolanos who've come here. BTW, how in the world did you turn my one sentence post into that tedious and endless diatribe you vomited up? Are you all right?

[Pavulon]

10. Having visited Caracas

I would pass on the city life. Ranchos are just not for me. Maybe he can fix that before taking us poor americans in.

However he can put me up in coro with some of that $100 a BBL cash and fill up my scuba tanks I will be happy. As long as the refinery does not blow up.

I would prefer Cumana region. Maybe he can hook that up for me.

That is a great place.

[mac2]

13. More Americans are leaving this country than anytime in

our long history. The 3rd world comes here for our jobs.

[roody]

27. I may have to emigrate in order to have quality

health care when I am old. I don't have kids who will look out for me. Venezuela or Cuba may take me in. Thank goodness I studied Spanish, two degrees in fact.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

40. Quality health care is a big consideration.

I understand. I don't have insurance. I have one kid who will probably go to Europe and stay there after college.

I'll have to brush up on my Spanish.

[fascisthunter]

32. Lol... The Neo-Nuts are Gonna Hate This

Too funny.


:popcorn:

[SoCalDem]

33. I know a nice little beach house on Margarita Island, I'd like to go back to

Thanks, Hugo :)

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

38. Just remember kids freedom of speech does not go nearly as far down there

as it does up here..

[BeHereNow]

43. Drink much kool aid?

There is no freedom of speech here-
There is no public controlled media.

BHN

[tritsofme]

45. Where the hell are we then?

What is this place?

[JohnnyCougar]

47. Sorry, but that's just not true.

I don't think you really understand the situation down there at all.

[mac2]

55. Freedom of speech

depends on what party you are here in the US. The media silences the many therefore there is no freedom of speech. Even immigrant protestors from Mexico have more media coverage.

If you are against the war, anti-privitization, anti-WTO,impeachment, 911 questions, Katrina investigations, etc.you don't get to say it much on the media.

[Elspeth]

46. Hey, maybe this is why the politicians want to build that fence at the border!

:)

A fence that keeps people out of a country can also keep other people inside of it.

[killbotfactory]

51. We may have to take him up on that

Unless we really do get change in the next administration.

[mac2]

54. I agree.

Change that was promised in 2006 never came.