For someone making 80K going down to minimum wage is a shock

[TwixVoy]

On another thread there were a lot of posts about not being able to find work for years. What some of it came down to (I think) was not necessarily being able to find work, but simply not being able to find work at the same level they were used to. I think what people need to realize is that for someone making say 80K all of a sudden losing that job and having to move down to a much lower rate of a pay is a huge shock mentally. I think for someone who has always made a very good income they may not even be able to fathom being able to live on anything less.

What you have to understand is that for someone making 80K in a professional environment all of a sudden going down to minimum wage is a HUGE shock that many people can not handle. Is it right? No, but a lot of people can not mentally handle it.

For example - I am a mid-level manager at a major retailer. I occasionally interview applicants. Just last month I had a middle aged person apply for "anything". I don't know what her personal situation was (I didn't ask)... but from what I gather from her comments she lived well off her spouses income and then something happened where that income went away. Maybe he got fired. I don't know, but the income was gone.

So I sat down with her to interview her. The ENTIRE INTERVIEW she kept making comments like "I am going to try. This is just such a shock for me to be living on minimum wage all of a sudden." (BTW: we pay more than minimum wage, she just assumed that... probably part of the mentality I am talking about) Then she made comments like "I always had my husband support me, but we don't have the money now"

She also wanted to hold on to what she had. She made comments like "I have to keep my car so I just need something to make the payments. I have to pay over 600 a month for it. I don't want to have to ride the bus." Honestly what I thought she needed to do (but didn't tell her of course) was GET RID of the car. She obviously wasn't going to have the income to pay for it anytime soon.

I WAS going to hire her, but then she started getting offensive. A few comments from her I remember were "I never thought I would be working with such dirty people" and "I don't intend to retire here or anything trust me. I would never end up at a place like this"

I mean I really find applicants like this fascinating. They just really really have a hard time coming down to a low income level mentally.... they just don't take it well at all.

It's interesting because when we start getting applicants like this who have finally broken and are willing to accept any job it also gives you an idea of just how bad the economy is doing.

But I think think this is completely understandable. I mean say you are living like Paris Hilton and then all of a sudden have to work at McDonalds. It IS an understanble reaction.... and I think it causes a lot of people to not even want to consider a low wage job because it just simply bothers them mentally.

[villager]

1. What's going to happen to these people when Peak Oil hits harder, and climate change

...gets worse?

I mean seriously, how are they going to retool?

[TwixVoy]

4. Think about the great depression

Think about the wealthy people who actually killed themselves when they woke up and realized they had nothing all of a sudden. A lot of people can NOT adapt to such a sudden change. Just a fact of the human mind I suppose.

[girl gone mad]

11. I hate to say it, but..

the way so many people live in this country is just flat out ridiculous. I think a lot of people are going to be in for a shock as credit dries up, energy prices keep rising and wages continue their decline. People in cities are completely out of touch with the amount of labor and energy involved in getting food into their stores and restaurants and keeping up the infrastructure. People in suburbs take the amount of driving they do for granted.

A lot of white collar jobs are non-essential and will simply not exist in the future. It's hard to imagine how people are going to manage, aside from moving back into labor and drastically altering their lifestyles. I'm no exception. I've been trying to reduce my energy consumption and dependence for a few years now, but a sudden loss of income or significant spike in oil prices would still be difficult.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

15. They are going to freak out and then die off for the most part...

sadly.

[mike_c]

2. do you (or your company) pay your employees a living wage...?

eom

[TwixVoy]

6. Yes and No....

If it is an employee at the lowest paygrade definitely no.... If it is a higher (non-management) paygrade position that they are applying for yes.

I don't like it at all, but corporate sets the pay rates. We literally have no ability to change the pay rates.

[htuttle]

3. I've been in the taxicab business for 20 years

Nobody plans on driving a cab. You just end up doing it.

I've seen a LOT of people at the 'bottom of their story arcs'. Some of them adjust. Some don't. Some fix whatever it is they broke, and move on or back to what they were doing before.

I think all of modern civilization will be going through a similar experience soon...

[Yael]

5. With her attitude

she deserves everything coming her way.

I applaud your patience with the situation.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

7. How much do you want to bet she voted for Bush twice?

I hate to be callous but she sounds like the type of person that would.

[Yael]

8. I can appreciate

[alittlelark]

9. uh, yeah.........

really..... hmmmmmmm.


This smells like Reagans infamous, non-existent 'Welfare Queen' - Ya know, the one that drives a Caddie.

I find myself in disbelief of your 'caricature'.

Sorry.

[The Doctor.]

13. I agree. My first impression was that it 'smells' a little contrived also, but...

There really are people like this out there.

Perhaps this rendition is a bit embellished, but the basics are realistic. I won't judge either way.

[alittlelark]

17. Remember the movie "Fun with Dick and Jane"?

Jane Fonda was in it... It was about an Aerospace Engineer who lost his job . He and his wife had to 'deal w/ it'. It was a comedy, and this interview sounds like a possible scene in the movie.

[girl gone mad]

18. It reminds me of..

a story I read during the last election when a recruiter had gone to the home of a person with Bush signs in her yard and asked if any of her children were interested in serving and she replied "No, that's not for us, we're well-off.." or something to that effect.

[pnorman]

24. Could this be that article?

Parent-trap snares recruiters
The tune changes at some homes when they hear 'sign here'

Thursday, August 11, 2005
By Jack Kelly, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Staff Sgt. Jason Rivera, 26, a Marine recruiter in Pittsburgh, went to the home of a high school student who had expressed interest in joining the Marine Reserve to talk to his parents.

"I want you to know we support you," she gushed.

Rivera soon reached the limits of her support.

"Military service isn't for our son. It isn't for our kind of people," she told him.
>
>
>

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05223/552161.stm

It doesn't really apply to the topic under discussion, but it's a good guess that it would apply to that "snooty" woman. I cant recall how many times I've tossed that article at Bush-supporters, but the invariable response was SILENCE.

pnorman

[girl gone mad]

27. Yes, that's it!

Thanks for finding it! "Not for our kind of people." Ugh. Worse than I remembered.

[TwixVoy]

19. She was by no means on welfare

I got the distinct impression from her she just fell from upper-middle class or lower upper class income levels and was likely now in desperation as her accounts were starting to run dry.

[alittlelark]

20. I never said she was.

I said your 'tale' of the interview sounded like a caricature. I said I found it hard to believe.

This 'person' is designed to elicit minimum sympathy... she's a rich snob who must now grovel (poorly at that). She makes it seem that the MASSIVE problems in credit, mortgages and employment are all about people like her.

She is a caricature designed to elicit titters and rolling eyes.

[TalkingDog]

41. See my post below: 2 items. There are those people out there....n/t

[readmoreoften]

87. Hard as it is to believe, some people are caricatures.

And Bush voters who believed that they were part of the elite upper class because they lived in a gated community might be surprised to learn that they are as vulnerable as the rest of us.

[varelse]

67. I'm a mid-level manager also (although not in retail)

and I've made the mistake of hiring this woman's counterpart. Not once, but twice, before I got a clue... It IS hard (and can be very humiliating) for a person used to higher status in society to take a step (or in this case, at least a dozen steps) down the ladder. Some just take them more gracefully than others.

[Skittles]

35. it's either not true

or that gal was mentally ill

[SammyWinstonJack]

37. It does.

[pitohui]

51. thank you, alittlelark

a lot of people forgot to put on their "thinking cap" and use their critical reading skills this morning

the OP's story is not even remotely true

i doubt this person has ever interviewed anyone for a job in his life

[unpossibles]

103. sure they did. Right after their 4 tours in Iraq

or something

[NMDemDist2]

63. I can't comment on the OP, but just over a year ago, hubby and I were in the same place

he got hired as a truck driver trainee after 20 years in telecom IT.

I worked as a bartender, but only because they hired me before the fast food joint did.

luckily we were in a position to be able to make less money unlike so many other folks, but I heard over and over "You won't be happy here, you won't stay here" and wasn't hired. Hubby heard the same thing over and over, but he promised a year if they'd give him a job. and they were right, he stayed a year.

I'm unemployed and seems I'll stay that way for a while, can't even get an interview around here. Luckily hubby landed a decent job (finally) but he's still doing blue collar work and just about bored out of his skull. the only up side is there will be a chance for advancement in his new position and they hired him on "to get you into the system until we figure out where to put you" but that could take months (or years)

So I'm not showing up in the unemployment numbers, in spite of having been employed constantly for over 35 years. I am growing a big garden and doing the home improvement that normally we'd hire out if we were both working, thereby taking another job away from another skilled blue collar worker and money out of the local grocery store's cash register.

:shrug:

[alittlelark]

65. There are quite a few in the same place.....BUT,

How many of them complain they "never thought they would be working w/ such dirty people"?
How many complained that they had to make the $600 car payment....


The story reeks of propaganda.

[NMDemDist2]

66. well on that $600 car payment thing....

that is what my car payment is

how you ask? being upside down in the last car and burying the difference in the new car. luckily it's my only bill (no mortgage or CC bills) but there you have it.

a real person with a (almost) $600 car payment. and I'll be so damned glad in 6/09 when it's done! and never again.

and don't tell me to sell it, I'm so upside down that even if I got top dollar for it, I'd still owe the bank a bunch and still have to replace it. I'm hunkering down and getting it paid off and then driving the wheels off it.

[alittlelark]

68. The issue w/ the OP's tale is the woman complained to her

about her car payment and working w/ dirty people...it doesn't ring true.

There are many people in your type of situation (the upside down houses are the worst) - but they do not behave like this contrived job seeker. At 80K a year she was far from wealthy in the 1st place.

[NMDemDist2]

69. $80k would be pretty high on the hog around here.

and in lots of areas in the US

I know a couple 'matrons' like the one described. and I actually could hear them saying those things. but like I said originally, I can't comment on the OP or it's veracity.

:shrug:

[reformedrethug]

71. I just have a question

not to sound mean but why buy a new car if your still upside down on the one you currently own?
This question is coming from somebody who refuses to buy new, I have always bought used, the last car my wife and I bought is an 04 Accord last year. The depreciation hit was already taken and we actually got it for less than blue book value.

[NMDemDist2]

73. the one I already owned was a gas hog POS

and I bought new because at the time my business paid for the car and the payments were tax deductible.

[reformedrethug]

74. Ok

that makes sense then. Especially the gas hog part, right now I spend approx 100.00 a week in gas and I cannot wait for the weather to break so I can start riding my motorcycle.

[NMDemDist2]

75. here's the car I bought two years ago for $1400

25+ MPG and running like a top!

[reformedrethug]

77. That looks

and sounds like a good buy. I am looking for a car to drive to replace the Durango that I currently drive. The only reason I am driving this gas hog is because I gave my old car to my dad because he needed a car and I was driving a mazda mx-6 that my uncle let me drive. He needed it back to take a road trip and I have yet to replace it. Hope to tho sometime this summer, park the durango and just use it in snow storms or for one of my wife's "shopping trips".

[NMDemDist2]

78. LOL a Durango was what I traded in in 2000

:hi:

[reformedrethug]

91. I love the

Durango but it IS a gas hog, especially since it has the 5.9 engine.

[NMDemDist2]

92. mine too and it was fine when I was only commuting 15 miles a day

and making trips to Costco.

totally different when I opened two stores and had to go all over Phoenix and back.

[NMDemDist2]

95. I misspoke, it was a 2000 Durango I traded in in late 2003

which explains why I was upside down

:rofl:

[readmoreoften]

84. Reeks of propaganda for who? What are you TALKING about?

How many people did the OP say said this? ONE. Is it so hard to believe that ONE CLASSIST person who finds themself suddenly poor exists? Or that there is a pattern of people taking jobs they never thought they'd be taking and are upset about it?

[readmoreoften]

83. Huh? There is nothing odd, 'strange', or remotely conservative about this OP.

The caricature of a welfare queen was a caricature to depict poor African-American women as lavish con artists sucking off the system. This is a comment about someone's personal experience with formerly wealthy people (very possibly Republicans) who, because of the economy, have to work in jobs with people who they have always felt were beneath them.

Do you really think that in this economy there are no formerly, well-off, racists and classists who are forced to work with people they think they are above?

[alittlelark]

101. I'm sure there are many (as I stated multiple times)....

The issue I have is w/ an OP that says this formerly 'rich' woman states that she never thought she would have to work w/ such dirty people, and that her car payment seemed to be paramount....

Perhaps it's just me and quite a few others that posted - but the tale reeks of propaganda.

Maybe she came across a completely stupid vapid ego-centric caricature at her work, and decided to tell the tale in her 33rd post here....


Personally, I doubt it.

[Digit]

10. She at least needed a lesson in how to interview and possibly a resume class

You don't have to settle for minimum wage.

[lonestarnot]

12. (soft a) live one way live another...

[RedCappedBandit]

14. Sounds like you encountered a rethug snob POS.

"I never thought I would be working with such dirty people"

Hah. What a fucking joke. I have no sympathy.

[KharmaTrain]

16. "A Period Of Adjustment"

The bite of this recession/depression will hurt people, but also may put some perspective back into lives as to what is important and how money can ruin the most basic and important part of our existence...interacting and working with others. We've become a selfish, greedy society where incomes and net worth relate more than a person's character or abilities. Thus, pulling the greed plug may just make some wake up to how superficial that kind of existance is and possibly make this a better country. We all are suffering in one way or another...we can either blame and bitch or work together and rebuild what's left of this country.

I've had to "downscale" in my life several times. Yes, it hurts when you lose a job and have to settle for less. It's a big blow to the ego when you face your family, friends and peers and they all know you've taken a fall...or that you no longer can afford things or you can no longer provide for your family like you once had.

It's not easy to start over...especially when you've only worked in one field or been used to a lifestyle for most of your life. I went through this and had to choose between career and family...and chose family. Jobs come and go, family doesn't. Money is nice but it's not the do-all, end-all in life. Maybe now others will start to realize that.

[Warpy]

21. Getting rid of the car would still leave her paying the difference

between what she owed and what it was worth. However, she'd be out from under the insurance, at least.

Seriously, when I got poor quick I adjusted my attitude to try to view it as an adventure in seeing just how cheaply I could squeak by. Since I came of age in the 60s, I already knew the difference between what I needed and what I wanted. I can't say I enjoy turnips and parsnips, but I learned how to eat 'em.

Unfortunately, the age for being tossed on the corporate scrap heap reserved for those who didn't inherit the fast track is getting younger and younger. In some professions, it's all the way down to 40.

Nobody ever told us about those pages in the rule book, the pages that said we'd better sock away every dime we could while we were young and able to earn it because as soon as our bodies started to change and we started to look a little shabby, it would be off to low level retail and food jobs for us until Social Security kicked in, if the right wing keeps their greedy paws off it. We sure as hell can't count on company pensions or retirement plans.

I'm afraid there are too many people out there who still think they're middle class because they can still leverage enough additional debt to keep up the appearance of the lifestyle.

I'm afraid there are too many people out there who are going to be in for a rude shock when the credit dries up and they not only have to make do with what they have, they also have to figure out how to pay it off on low wages.

I hope the lady in the OP manages to adjust her attitude before she does lose everything.

[stevedeshazer]

22. You must be a really shitty interviewer

I've interviewed hundreds of applicants.

Paris Hilton to McDonald's? Really?

Your condescending attitude is disgusting.

Let me get this straight.

You: I WAS going to hire her, but then she started getting offensive. A few comments from her I remember were "I never thought I would be working with such dirty people" and "I don't intend to retire here or anything trust me. I would never end up at a place like this"

Do you really expect me to believe this?

And she should get rid of her car?

NO job applicant I ever interviewed said stuff like that. For sure, I heard many dumb things said, but nothing like that. And even if you DID hear it, you REFUSED to hire the applicant.

So, should job applicants to your hallowed over-minimum-wage positions just accept shitty jobs?

By the way, I was like you before the Republican economy, but now I'm a truck driver. I make one-third what I did five years ago.

Excuse me if I have a hard time believing your story.

[clixtox]

34. Feel better now?

Who cares...

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[readmoreoften]

85. What 'filthy' comment? The person just said "who cares". Why are you so defensive about this?

So someone tells an anecdote about a really bad interview. You find it hard to believe that there's a woman out there who is a total idiot? You must not get out much. I've had students tell me "I like you as a teacher, but I don't really care about the subject you teach, I'm just taking it as a requirement". People say strange things they shouldn't in interviews all the time. They confuse it with a therapy session. Why do you find this so hard to believe? You seem to be taking this personally or pissed off at this guy because he's on the other side of the hiring table. :shrug:

[stevedeshazer]

90. This story is complete bullshit.

Again, I've interviewed hundreds if not a thousand applicants. The OP's story is simply not credible.

I've been here at DU over seven years with more than 15,000 posts. This poster shows up with about three dozen, has not returned to defend the original post, and has zero credibility.

I can't tell you what to believe, but you can choose my account or the OP's.

Take it or leave it or back it up.

[readmoreoften]

99. I can't 'back up' an anecdotal story. No one can. It's an anecdote.

You can choose to believe it or not. I have no idea if it happened or not. But I have certainly met people like this woman. And I have no idea what kind of deep-seeded anti-dem political agenda would motivate this post. The Republicans are failing their own upper-middle class? Well, okay. But we knew that.

There are many things I see on DU that don't jibe with my experience. Food costs aren't rising in my area, for instance. Haven't noticed it at all. Doesn't mean it isn't happening in other places. I just don't see the point in someone faking an OP like this. Maybe exaggerating to make a story exciting--that's a general, human motivation. But I can't see a political motivation for this poster, unless it's to damage the Republican party.

[SammyWinstonJack]

38. ...

:thumbsup:

[stevedeshazer]

86. Thanks

There's fact and there's fiction. It's pretty easy to tell the difference.

[Dreamer Tatum]

82. It's difficult to believe because it's bullshit

This reads like a fantasy, not an actual occurrence. Revise and resubmit.

[sojourner]

23. I have news for you. 80k may SOUND like living high...but I was just getting things

lined up after my divorce; after years of education and hard work I landed a job paying just about that (in CA). Then the Bush years began...(AND I helped elect President Gore, but watched with horror as the Supreme Court appointed monkey-boy)

I'm making it on half that now. It was a real adjustment mentally, but I made the changes I needed to. I'm still working to get things lined out so I won't have to work until I'm 90, but I'm not feeling real optimistic today.

I wish folks --- all of us --- had a bit more compassion. We're all in the same boat, or will be soon.

[Two Americas]

33. thanks for that sojourner

"I wish all of us had a bit more compassion. We're all in the same boat, or will be soon."

:applause:

[Greyhound]

72. As hard as that is, you are lucky. I am now living on less than half of what I used

to pay in taxes. A $40,000 job would be just fine at this point, but I have send out literally thousands of resumes and find that most of the time there is no job in the first place. Companies are looking to get a house full of H1-b slaves so they can steal from them with impunity.

BTW, I graduated 3rd in my class with a portfolio full of offices and honors, worked for 15 years to become one of the best in the country in my field, and am now unemployable (apparently) because I am over 40 and made a good living before Clinton decided to decimate the entire field so that his campaign contributors could move from having hundreds of millions of dollars to having billions of dollars.

Wondering why your new computer has 1000 times the capability it had 10 years ago but moves ever more slowly? That's why.

[huskerlaw]

25. You must live in the midwest or the south...

because on either coast, $80K is barely middle class. I live in Los Angeles, and nobody around here making $80K could afford a $600 car payment. In LA, an $80K salary will get you a small (though decent) one bedroom apartment, a decent car (like a Toyota Camry), and enough money to pay the bills (assuming nothing major and/or unexpected occurs) and have some left over for entertainment, etc.

That's assuming it's a single person. If it's 2 people living on $80K, money would be really tight.

[TalkingDog]

45. Agreed. 80K a year for 2 in my part of NC would put you up there.

Of course, I ran into an old high school acquaintance a while back and we were discussing his job as a developer. He works with one of our classmates who is an "Old Money" local.

As the construction business has taken a downturn they were discussing how much money they might be able to make in the next year. The discussion got heated and Old Money finally burst out and yelled: "How is a person supposed to live on 60 Thousand Dollars a Year?!!"

At which I cracked up laughing. My mother raised 2 children by herself, broke her back (and a few bones, literally) in a factory job plus part time work on the weekends and I can't imagine she saw 60 K over several years of work.

The Spousal Unit and I just broke 60K in 07 and that's with me having had exceptional good fortune with contract labor this year. We have paid down all our debt, excepting mortgage, with quite a bit to spare, so yes, 80K would be up there....

[wordpix]

54. yup, $80K in the NYC suburbs will get you a one br place to live in a so-so neighborhood

plus the basic necessities, no frills, and don't plan on going far for a vacation or going out for dinner.

[conflictgirl]

26. And it can also be a shock to apply for those jobs and not even get interviewed

I've sure as hell never made 80K a year, and I didn't expect to be making even 40K a year straight out of college. But damn straight it was a shock when I applied for seasonal retail at over 40 places last fall and listed my desired pay as "open" and didn't even get a single freaking interview. It wasn't that I blew the interview with my supposed bad attitude or higher expectations because they didn't even give me the interview in the first place!

For all the people in these threads who have the answers, how are those of us who've had trouble finding jobs supposed to get interviews? I dress up, I smile, I do positive affirmations on my way to turn in the applications and nada. That's why I find it so infuriating when people say that 'those who don't have jobs just don't want to work'. All those 8 months when I was looking for ANY job in ANY field at ANY salary and couldn't even get an interview, it would've been nice to know the magic secret that would have gotten me hired.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

28. I agree with you.

I think those people who think anybody who wants a job can get one just don't know how bad it is out there.

All our manufacturing jobs got shipped overseas and even our service jobs have been shipped overseas. We don't make anything anymore and the best and the brightest have to go to other countries to do research and development in science and medicine.

The only secret is WHO DO YOU KNOW.

Unfortunately, none of my acquaintances, some of whom are multimillionaire attorneys, were able or willing to do a goddamned thing to help me find a job.

I'm convinced that getting a job comes down to either giving a powerful person a blow job or paying them a bribe.

Sex or money. :shrug: I'm baffled.

[notesdev]

29. It's about market demand

Something they don't teach you in college while they're stacking debt on you for an effectively worthless degree.

The dwindling number of decent-paying skilled labor positions keeps getting undercut by massive infusions of foreign labor, whether you be a seamstress or a carpenter or a computer programmer. That is, if they can't ship those jobs offshore entirely.

My grandfather made coats for 50 years out of a factory in Queens. There's no way he could do that today and compete against slave labor in China or Indonesia.

[yellerpup]

43. "giving a powerful person a bj"

Not an option if you don't look 25, TOPS! My (banker) sister suggested that I go to work as a whore after I couldn't find a job. I told her that wouldn't work for me because I don't know how to fake it. I think if you are competent at whoring, you have to at least act as if you are having a good time.

[TalkingDog]

47. Incompetent sex workers can make a great living.

Trust me, johns don't care if you are enjoying it. You get paid less, but no acting involved.

Acting costs extra.

If you don't want to have sex with them, a halfway decent dominatrix can make 300-500 an hour, a good one 1K an hour.

That's the route I would take. Venting my spleen at people who pay me to do it. No touching necessary except at the end of a whip.

[yellerpup]

56. Thanks for the education!

The dominatrix scenario would be one way to work off "bitterness." :spray: :rofl:

[TalkingDog]

61. Especially since it's Repubs, Fundies and high-powered money men

that are their most frequent customers.

Or at least that's what the workers in Vegas say when the conventions are in town.

[AZ Criminal JD]

81. Someone in New York might disagree

[readmoreoften]

89. Nah, Spitzer wasn't going to a Dom. Dom customers are often Republican or at least Libertarian.

Strip club clients and call girl clients are a political mix, though.

[readmoreoften]

88. As a former dominatrix, let me tell you: I miss the job immensely.

Getting paid a lot of money to whip, humiliate, and spit in the faces of CEOs. If I had the start up, I'd do it again. Unfortunately it does cost quite a bit in equipment and costuming you do need a studio.

I miss it. I lost my clients after the tech bust got bad. I imagine that it's even hard times for dommes out there. But not that hard :).

[yellerpup]

96. Very interesting.

I'm not drawn to that side of life, but I'm sure you have some interesting stories to tell.

[readmoreoften]

100. I enjoyed it immensely. Probably because I'm not into S&M at all. Just a little class warfare to me.

Very into watching Republicans pay me to make them eat out of dog bowls, though. One tried to argue intelligent design with me while he was kneeling in front of me in a dog collar and chain. I slapped his face and told him to sheddep and get back to worshipping my feet. Heh, heh. What's not to like about that?

Only downside is there's a little piece of you who wishes you could do it to every moron that talks about 'the invisible hand of the free market' or union-busting.

[yellerpup]

102. You do make it sound rewarding!

:hi:

[reformedrethug]

70. IMHO

and from a couple of my college classes one of the things they hammered into my head was to NEVER put any down for salary OR position. ALWAYS put down a position even if its sales clerk and always put down something in the money spot as well. Any/Any shows desperation and the possibility that you would leave at the drop of a hat for a different job with no advance notice. I am not saying that you would do this, but, this is what many hiring managers think including the 2 that came to our class and spoke to us, btw the class was Business Management and Business Writing.

In my situation, I am currently filling in for a lady on maternity leave and I have been asking if I will be kept on after she comes back. One reason is I have received 4 calls about other positions since I have been there and actually have an interview/reinterview on Tuesday. My chances of staying are pretty good but I am still going to the interview because one of the possible positions is a place I would LOVE to get into. I told my current supervisor that if it is with this company I will finish my contract and take the other position. Not so much for the money but because of the job security it offers, that and my wife has been at this one company for 23 years LOL.

[JDPriestly]

30. Excuse me. But we are constantly being sold the myth of the

"American Dream." Since when does a professional person work for minimum wage in the U.S.? Since when does an American's lifestyle drop so drastically? Since the Reagan era set off the great American decline. That's since when. Since Bush stole our money and oversaw the devaluation of our economy. That's since when. Since our politicians got bought by big business and instituted free trade, i.e., sold the U.S. workers down the river. That's since when.

This woman has my sympathy. If Reagan and every subsequent president had not sold the American dream, the American people and the American military power to the highest corporate bidder, we would still be able to live not in luxury, but in a decent, middle class style. Here in California, an income of $80,000 per year is not wealth. It is a little better than making ends meet. You can buy an inexpensive house in a lower middle class area, a used car and save a little for retirement. You can educate your children -- provided they either qualify for scholarships or financial aid somehow or get into a state school and live at home.
$80k per year is not all that much money.

[tavalon]

32. Man, it's stories like this that make me glad I'm a nurse

I got out of my state school 18 years ago with no debt and have had a steady ability to work and a rising salary (especially since I moved to a unionized area - yay! unions, even weak union help) I'm also lucky because I have loved working with patients and now my little patients and their parents for these 18 years. I don't think my job will be going away anytime soon and I can even emigrate to Canada if necessary.

But I have to say, living in the Seattle area with my life partner making half of what he did in Austin and as of January getting the shittiest "health insurance" I have ever seen outside of medicaid, we are struggling to keep up. My son is autistic and his medicines cost about $600.00 a month and we've had to halt the other medical treatments for him and also his dad for now. I'm going to likely marry dad(something that is stupid in my book, but again, I'm lucky because I have that option) at the end of the year, so that I can insure them both and he can get his sleep apnea treatments and kiddo can get back to his treatments as well.

[truedelphi]

31. There are two separate threads in your OP

One is that a minimum wage job is not going to be worth working.

A sentiment with which I relate. I think at this point I would shoot myself before working for eight bucks an hour and having to sleep in the backseat of my car. it was something I actually did when much younger but not something that I can fathom having the resilence to be doing right now.

Bu then there is the crowd that has had the best of everything -- always has, and expected that they always will. Their life IS their $ 350 designer handbags, the constant trips to the mall to update the wardrobe, the $ 65 facials etc. And it doesn't occur to that person that they can survive with anything but the type of vehicle that costs $ 600 in monthly car payments to friggging lease.

I understand the feelings of the first group, but not the feelings of the second group. It might actually do them some good to find out that all that constant attention to "the finer things" takes away from appreciating what really matters in life.

[JNelson6563]

36. The jist of it

What really sticks out for me is the worry about making that $600 a month car payment. That's a big car payment, must be a very nice car. This is the sort of thing that will trip up the people going from a pretty comfortable existenct to the "new world order". They will spend a long time in panic mode trying to figure out a way to patch things together as they know them. How to keep the house and car they can't possibly afford.

Those of us who have experience with real financial hardship have a big advantage over people like the lady in the OP. Those who've not known what it's like to get by on very, very little will have to arrive at an entirely new mindset in regard to needs and wants and this can take a long time. Often about as much time as it will take to lose (after scurrying like mad to try and keep) all those things they thought they really needed (like the big house and expensive car).

Julie

[El Pinko]

39. Sorry, but threads like this really big me.

I think just about anyone who has ever made a decent wage would have a problem working at minimum wage or just above it because minimum wage is slave pay - you can't even rent an apartment with a roommate on minimum wage in most cities in the US, much less make a $600 car payment.

And I don't like the insinuation that "the problem is just that people are too snobbly/spoiled to work for minimum wage".

I don't want to work for minimum wage because I could not pay rent, feed my kids or do much of anything on that - I'd be homeless.


People need jobs that will at least pay for basic food and lodging, and min. wage will not do that. It's unconscionable that it hasn't been raised in a decade as prices have risen so much.


As for the lady's car payment, if she gave up the car, she would definitely eat a loss, since financed cars are almost always worth less than the remaining balance on the loan - and in most cities in the US, you cannot HAVE a job without a vehicle.

Personally, I drive a used car, and I always buy them for cash, but that's just me. I think new cars and loans and collision insurance are a HUGE waste of money.



I feel like you are kind of trying to feign concern for people who are suffering in the crap Bush economy, while simultaneously portraying working people as too spoiled and snobby to work for shit pay - that makes me inclined to believe you have an agenda with this crap, and not a progressive one.

[TalkingDog]

40. 2 items

1) Your theory: "not necessarily being able to find work, but simply not being able to find work at the same level they were used to"

Real world experience: When you fill out an application, you are asked to fill it out completely, not leave anything out. When you put down a Master's Degree and your last wages at 17.00 an hour (or 50.00 an hour if I'm working contract labor), employers seem to magically .....lose interest.

Frankly, they can hire somebody, anybody else who is probably going to stick around longer than I would, because A: I' won't stop looking for a job and B: the second a job comes along that is in any way better in terms of money and/or conditions, I'm outta there.


2) Some people think the "working with such dirty people" line was BS. Real world experience: I was in a local charity thrift store (the hoi polli donate their used items, so the pickings are good). It's in the "bad part of town" where all the dark skinned and economically "disadvantaged" people live. A group of about 8 "matrons" come in and from their conversation it is obvious they are doing "charity work" by donating their time to the store. I listen as I browse and I hear one of them say, "We need to wear these aprons and name-tags so people will know who we are." Another shoots back: "I don't want people to know who I am."

They settle the identity issue and go on preparing themselves to "work" and I go up to check out. The cashier has on LATEX GLOVES.

I put my raw silk blazer from the then Sovereign Colony of Hong Kong on the counter and not surprisingly she has a very halting command of the cash register and had to write out a duplicate receipt because she could not figure out how to print one out or (as I learned in the process)understand how to print the journal totals for the day....

So I don't see the subby's applicant as being too far off the mark. She didn't want the job in the first place and thankfully she was honest about it. She would've been horrible to the customers.

Me, I come from po' white trash, and the mere fact that I won the genetic lottery (brains, looks and perseverance) doesn't make me better or worse (or elitist in the popular parlance) than anybody I would work with or for.

The people interviewing me either understand that I'm temporary at best or don't want to deal with a socialist leaning liberal trying to Unionize the workers....

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

42. ...

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[B Calm]

44. Hungry, Desperate & will work cheap to survive = Cheap Labor Conservatism

[undeterred]

46. In 2001 I had to work in a convenience store for $6.50 an hour

By that time my unemployment had run out and I had no income. But the job I lost was $50K a year. I picked the convenience store because it was walking distance and I had no car. Nevertheless, with 2 advanced degrees, it was humbling. And it was humbling to have a manager correct my mistakes.

The thing is- I knew they were glad to have me. There were people coming in asking for applications every single day. The store owner told me I was the 4th person to apply with a completely clean background check in 20 years (and they were willing to overlook minor stuff). I was friendly and the customers liked me. It also amazed me when people came in and said to me enviously "How did you get this job?" like I was the luckiest person in the world. I worked there for 11 months.

So I began to realize that I was lucky to have it. Eventually I got a better paying job in my field again. But I'm really nice to convenience store clerks because now I know what a physically demanding and stressful job it is.

[Dorian Gray]

48. Wow...

she needs to be told how NOT to interview for a job. She'll never get any job if she makes such disparaging comments about the people where she will work.

[drexel dave]

49. then she needs to start tricking out that ass....

if she wants to keep living like a high-priced prostitute.

No sympathy from this camp, camped out in the ghetto of Dayton, Ohio USA.

[pitohui]

50. i call bullshit and you may eat my socks

you know what, when you post a bogus made-up completely invented story, at least try to make it a little believable

[Crabby Appleton]

53. I agree, sounds like BS to me. nt

[El Pinko]

59. Thirded...

"Americans are too spoiled/lazy to work for a wage that won't even pay rent for a studio apartment."

Brought to you by the same folks who coined the term "right-to-work state"...

[CreekDog]

52. she has a $600/month car payment, which should tell us a few things

1) whatever she has was entirely or nearly entirely financed (no down payment, or little)

2) probably no savings, or little savings or they would have put down something

3) $600/month car payment on 80k per year is extravagant (though not uncommon), i make more am single and owe $200/month (on a 2005 car though I pay more each month trying to pay it off) and the only reason I financed was to preserve much of my emergency savings.

I sympathize with people who struggle and the family members that depend on them...but people who have $600/month car payments and lack savings cause me major cognitive dissonance. And yet this is common. These people are struggling now, no doubt, but it seems like some bad decisions were made prior to the struggle.

If she had a $300/month car payment, then the $300 extra she's been paying could have gone into the bank and possibly bought her more time to perhaps get a better job --or something.

I'm sorry to sound so judgemental here.

The disconnect for me is that in this country where people who can pay for things to make the system help us out when we fall down refuse to pay and then when they fall on hard times they don't realize they never took the responsibility to prepare for the SOL society they'd been voting for all along. They just were willing to spend big on themselves and to hell with everyone else.

:banghead:

[wordpix]

55. agreed---no one needs to pay $600/mo on a car, even a new one

I think you can purchcase a brand new Accord for about $300/mo.

[CreekDog]

60. see that's what people are trading (stuff that is)

they can either have slightly lower taxes which they can use to buy "stuff"

or they can pay a little more (or have other more well-off pay more) and live in a nation where if something bad happens to them they aren't forced to work minimum wage jobs and give up healthcare and become homeless and destitute in the process.

that's my frustration.

what's worth more to people? tax cuts or the security of a system that protects everybody provided we all pitch in to provide it to each other.

but some just prefer to have the car that costs $600/month (maybe not the person in the OP, but many people).

[pitohui]

57. creek dog, i hate to tell you, but ronald reagan made up the "welfare queen" cadillac story

it is not true

it was never true

just so you'll know

it's 2008, high time somebody told you...! :-)

[CreekDog]

58. i don't believe such people exist and I didn't suggest that this person was

did you read my post?

[bbgrunt]

62. this is one of the things wrong with this country. That

so many think it is beneath their dignity and beyond their imagination to live without all the latest overpriced consumerist crap.....and that they are much too good to share the fate of many in this economy who have been victimized. As more and more of these kind begin to eat humble pie, maybe we can begin to educate them about the need of a government that provides for the "general welfare".

[Quantess]

64. I would be disappointed if you had hired her, after finding out her attitude.

She'd be horrible to work next to.

I worked at the Home Depot last year, and even though I was outrageously overqualified for the job, I took the job because I wanted to work in the Garden Dept, and not because I couldn't find anything else. But one of the other new workers was also overqualified, yet he assumed that he was the only one. He had no respect, and he thought he "knew" that he was smarter than everyone else. I never told him I had a Masters degree. I wanted as little to do with him as possible. He was one of the reasons I only lasted 3 months at Home Depot.

[earth mom]

76. What further proof do we all need that the good paying jobs are GONE?

In this and the other thread about jobs, it's obvious that many people don't get it that THE GOOD JOBS ARE GONE.

I'm talking good paying jobs that still offer some dignity and respect.

People with degrees, people that previously had nice incomes and people who are simply good honest hard workers are being forced to grovel for jobs and are competing with so many other applicants that actually getting a job has become a matter of who you know or who likes you better on a personal level.

You know, I got sick of working for a "boss" almost 20 years ago. I started working for myself and never looked back. My work isn't consistent or high paying but I love it and it has also allowed me to care for a couple of family members the past several years. However, my hubby's employment has been wild roller coaster ride and we lived as the working poor for years up until a few years ago when hubby finally landed a very good paying and secure job, one of the few good union jobs left out there. But I tell you, if it wasn't for my working for myself and thinking outside of the box on many occasions in order to pay the bills, we would have been out on the street.

At this point, even with my hubby's job and the faith I have in myself and my abilities to keep it all together, I don't feel secure and feel like we are still on the edge.

I know that we could lose it all overnight just like so many out there these days.

Which is what so many smug and know it all people in this country don't get.

That the majority of the people in the U.S. are very close to the edge.

Of course, that is exactly where the powers that be want everyone to be.

Where people will take their crap jobs, their crap wages, their crap health insurance and cower under their tyranny because there is jack else to turn to.


We should be united in fighting against the powers that be who are ruining this country and screwing us all over-instead of each other.

[NMDemDist2]

79. sing it!!

and just like your sig line says......

:yourock:

[Scooter24]

93. Personally,

I wouldn't know what to do with myself if I made minimum wage. Going from earning more than 40 times that amount to minimum wage would be devastating. I find great solitude in knowing that if I ever was to lose my job, I would be well taken care of.

I do sympathize though for those having to make major readjustments in their lives because of a major loss of income. Those that have the attitude such as the woman who couldn't bring herself to work with such dirty people will have a major attitude adjustment coming to her.

[Elspeth]

94. For someone making 80K, a sudden drop to minumum wage is bankruptcy.

It's losing the house, probably being foreclosed on.
It means losing health insurance
It means no childcare (can't pay for it)
It means getting bottom dollar for all your stuff that you have to sell to pay your debt.

It means not being able to feed your kids.

[DS1]

97. I know.

[JerseygirlCT]

98. The shock is completely understandable. When someone feels like

the rug's been pulled out from under them, it's always going to be very hard.

The "dirty" remarks, however, say more about her person than her situation, IMO.

Unfortunately, there are an awful lot of people dealing with that type of shock out there. Perhaps even more unfortunate though are the people who've never had the "up" from which to come rudely down.

I serious minimum wage would be a great first start with that problem I think.

[blindpig]

104. The real question is

whether persons finding themselves in such a situation, or knowing someone in such a situation, are able to identify with persons who have had nothing but minimum wage or like jobs all of their lives, or at least since the good jobs 'went away'? If they can, if we can, then we're getting somewhere. Without solidarity, we are nothing.

[butterfly77]

105. So I guess a lot of you are Bitter...