Thou shalt not sell pope tickets or else!

[Breeze54]

Thou shalt not sell pope tickets :eyes:

http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/religion_theseeker/2008/04/thou-shalt-not.html

Scalping your coveted Cubs ticket on eBay might not be a sin in Illinois. But auctioning your
tickets to a papal mass is a crime in the eyes of the Roman Catholic church.

Though anti-scalpers have been urging legislators for years to implement anti-scalping laws, no Illinois laws prohibit brokers from reselling tickets for a price above face value, within certain limits. Rules vary across the country for online ticket scalping, which is also legal in Illinois.

Still, it’s not an option for the hundreds of Chicago Catholics who began receiving tickets this week for spots at two upcoming papal masses in Washington, D.C., and New York.

"You cannot sell a sacrament," said Susan Gibbs, communications director for the Archdiocese of Washington, D.C. You should not buy either, she said. Anyone who buys a ticket and tries to get through the gates will be stopped.

On April 17, Pope Benedict XVI will offer mass for 46,000 faithful at the new Nationals Park in Washington. The liturgy will be the first non-baseball event in the park. On April 20, the pope will bring his historic U.S. papal visit to a close during a mass for 70,000 at Yankee Stadium.

Per rules set by the New York and Washington archdioceses in concert with the U.S. Secret Service,
the tickets are non-transferable and must be presented on the day of the masses with a photo ID.

Those who try to put their pope tickets on eBay or hit the sidewalk to peddle their tickets will be committing the sin of simony, which is explained in canon law 1380 and perhaps best illustrated in Dante’s Inferno, in which Pope Nicholas III is damned to the 8th circle of hell for committing simony and predicts at least two other popes will be too.

The sin of simony is named for Simon Magus, a biblical figure in the Acts of Apostles, dubbed by some early Christian writers as the "Father of Heresies."

In the biblical account, Simon offers Jesus’ disciples Peter and John money in exchange for the magical power to place his hands on anyone and fill them with the Holy Spirit. Peter is so offended by the suggestion that he scolds Simon for his wicked ways. Since then, the term simony has come to refer to any kind of spiritual trafficking.

more....

The Secret Service is having a say in the sale of tickets to a religious event? :wtf:

:eyes:

[Wickerman]

1. The holder of the world's largest art collection is worried about Simony?

'kay.

[Breeze54]

3. Well; HE doesn't own the art but I've never heard of 'the sin of simony'... and

I just don't get why the SS has anything to do with the tickets being sold!

If someone has a ticket, they need an ID to get in anyway, so what's the problem? :shrug:

[Wickerman]

5. to be clear

I was referring to the Vatican owning the art; which is also the entity making the fuss. And, yeah, the SS being involved sucks, but I suppose they are charged to deal with currency issues. :shrug:

[Breeze54]

6. But "The Vatican" represents the whole Catholic Church

That's just where they keep some of the art.

No, the SS are charged with protecting him (terrorist threats) on his visit

but this is a religious affair. I mean, do they follow Billy Graham around

and check his ticket holders? Since when, besides protection, is the US Gov.

involved in religious affairs? :shrug:

[Wickerman]

8. Fair enough

I can't figure why the SS would be involved. Seems they should have hired Blackwater.

Not sure what your point is on the Vatican being the keeper of the art. Yes, it represents the Catholic church, but it IS a sovereign nation (more accurately a City-State) unto itself. Perhaps I should have referred to it as The State of the Vatican City which is it's proper title. For all practical purposes they own the art. Most of it has never left the compound nor has most of it been seen by few outside of a select few of the 1,000 or so who inhabit the City. All that aside, I don't think the distinction is worth quibbling over.

[GardeningGal]

11. Why the Secret Service is involved is due to the Vatican being

a sovereign nation. The pope is the head of state of the Vatican. I only know this because of when he was in Denver for the World Youth Day (Conference). I can't remember what it was called but the SS was involved back then also.

[Breeze54]

13. Yes, for protection but tickets?

That's nuts, imho.

[GardeningGal]

16. I don't know the answer to that.

I know someone who was involved with some of the organizational aspects and the SS was definitely involved. I also know you had to have a ticket to attend but I don't know if the SS screened who got the tickets. If I have the chance, I'll ask the person I know who was involved.

[Breeze54]

17. It says ticket holders need ID's to get into the two masses; so

Why the scrutiny from the SS, is my question! They'll already be screening people at the event.

[melm00se]

19. The Pope

is, technically, a head of state and protection is the responsibility of the Secret Service.

[TlalocW]

2. What do you mean you can't sell a sacrament?

One of the definitions of Sacrament: Something regarded as possessing a sacred character or mysterious significance

Priests used to do this all the time. They also routinely practiced simony by selling forgiveness for sins - it's where the whole confessional thing comes from.

Anyway, someone can just scalp the Pope tickets then go to confessional and tell the child-molester on the other side of the curtain his sins and be automatically forgiven by God.

TlalocW

[Breeze54]

4. I think they mean "selling" the Mass....

:shrug:

:eyes:

[KatyMan]

24. Well,

Priests used to do this all the time. They also routinely practiced simony by selling forgiveness for sins - it's where the whole confessional thing comes from.

Anyway, someone can just scalp the Pope tickets then go to confessional and tell the child-molester on the other side of the curtain his sins and be automatically forgiven by God.

Romans used to go to the arena to watch deathmatches between humans and humans, lions and humans, lions and elephants...there's all that talk you hear about Greek and Roman schools for boys involving a lot of sex between the boys and their teachers--shall we damn all modern Greeks and Romans as well, for the mistakes/cultural differences of their forebears?


(edited to clarify)

[TlalocW]

31. All righty...

You have a point about the past and mistakes/cultural differences of their forebears but...

I really consider confession to be something that is antiquated and only used by priests to exert (waning) control over their flocks. I don't remember anything in the Bible about having to go through an intermediary on Earth to talk to God/ask forgiveness for sins. Where does the priest get the authority to speak for God and forgive people their sins?

As for the rest of my statement, I think the Catholic Church has lost all moral authority because of their actions when it comes to their child abuse scandal. The current Pope, when he was John Paul's assistant, wrote letters to bishops telling them to try and keep any pedophilia scandals under wraps until the statute of limitations ran out on them. Then they juggle around the abusive priests to different parishes; one known abuser was even at John Paul's funeral, and they use whatever accounting tricks they can to try and downplay their wealth when they are brought to trial. This isn't ancient history. This is recent events.

TlalocW

[peekaloo]

7. Placeth those who are guilty in thee Papal mosh pit!

it's like a hell on earth

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

9. To be fair

The Vatican is a nation these are dual purpose tickets for a religious event and for an audiance with a visiting dignitary..

[Breeze54]

12. No, this is about the masses in DC & NY only - an audience will be rare

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2008-02-25-popetix_N.htm

snip-->

The two archdioceses where Pope Benedict XVI will celebrate public Masses in April on his first U.S. tour as pope have received more than 200,000 ticket requests, about double the number of seats available, from Catholics around the nation.

Only 46,000 seats will be available for the Mass at Nationals Park in Washington, D.C., and 57,000 will be available at Yankee Stadium in New York City.

The stampede for free tickets — offered to all 195 Roman Catholic dioceses nationwide, in allotments from a handful to a thousand — was fierce. When the Archdiocese of Baltimore recently posted a notice about getting tickets on its website, the rush to get details shut down the site in an hour, said Susan Gibbs, spokeswoman for the Archdiocese of Washington, which is parceling out tickets for the Mass in the capital.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

15. The pope is the leader of a foreign nation

Were the leader of any given EU nation to come to the us and address a church service of some kind the SS would be involved in every aspect. Its their job to protect foreign leaders while they are here..

[Breeze54]

18. The tickets were handed out all across the US....

This is still a religious event and people still need ID's to get into the masses.

The SS being involved in whether or not "people commit a sin" :eyes: and sell them is BS!

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

20. The ticekts were handed out to members of the catholic church

not at the supermaket..

You're having trouble seeing that there are twho things going on here

1) The catholic Church has said selling the tix is a sin and, according the their theology, if the pope says it it must be so. The pope has every right to say that no matter how theologically dubious it is..

2) The SS is charged with protecting foreign leaders, the pope is a foreign leader. They could care less if its a sin or not but they do care a foreign leader has said that people invited to the event can not give that invitation to someone else.

Its like when Pelosi wore a head covering when she went to syria, its about respecting foreign leaders..

[Breeze54]

22. I'm not having any trouble.

So? The SS can protect but they nor the Pope can stop people from selling the tickets.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

25. Yes, they can

Its called scalping, making tickets not transferable is *completely legal* and unless you can provide me with something to indicate otherwise you're rally swimming upstream here..

[Breeze54]

26. That's if they get caught and that's a state issue, not the SS's! Scalping goes on all the time....

You rarely hear about arrests, maybe a few here and there.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

27. I would think scalping at an event lead by

a foreign head of state might warrant it..

Look De'Nile ain't just a river in Egypt, were this anyone but the pope you would not be complaining so adamantly that the SS was trying to make sure only those invited by the leader were attending..

[Breeze54]

29. That's right. He's a religious person and this is a religious event.

Protect him personally, yes. Worry about tickets when
the ticket holders need ID's at the gate anyway is silly.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

30. Like I siad your too blind to comment on this

He is a religious leader

He is also the leader of a soverign nation with embassies and the whole nine yards..

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

10. "You cannot sell a sacrament"

...This from those who made so much from the selling of Papal Indulgences...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgence

[Ishoutandscream2]

14. Can someone grab a tour tee-shirt for me?

He won't be appearing down here, and I would like a momento.

[TlalocW]

32. How about a nice, Pope Ratzi's Kiss My Ring Tour 08 shirt?

:)

TlalocW

[Ishoutandscream2]

33. Yes, that would be great!!!

Or maybe "Former Nazis on Tour, 2008" if you can find it.

[Breeze54]

34. LOL!

:P

[mnhtnbb]

21. Hypocrisy abounds! It's 14 euro to get into the Vatican Museum

and I think my friend paid 7 euro to go up in the cupola last week.

So it's ok for the Pope to profit--just not ok for the peasants.

[Breeze54]

23. Huh? These tickets weren't "sold" to people....

:eyes:

You're talking about tickets for a museum tour.

[mnhtnbb]

36. Yes, they were 'given' to people. Why shouldn't people be able to sell them if they wish?

[Retrograde]

28. but the basilicas and churches are free

You can still get into St. Peter's and the other major basilicas, as well as all the minor basilicas in Rome (where they have some nice Michelangelos and Carravagios just sitting there) for free. Unlike the Church of England cathedrals, most of which have admission charges plus additional fees for extras like going up in the towers or into the crypts.

BTW, the Metropolitan Museum in NYC charges $20.

[mnhtnbb]

35. How do you think the Vatican funded the acquisitions that are in the Museum?

The Metropolitan Museum in New York didn't tell parishioners they'd burn in hell if they didn't donate to the Church.