Help with wingnuttery email rebuttal

[caduceus111]

I don't post much, but do read daily. I get these crap emails from the uneducated hicks on the far end of my family tree. Usually I delete them, but I've had about enough. Anyone got some ammo or a link to rebut this garbage? Obviously, it's the neocon policies of the past 7 years that are the result of this, but I need some solid stuff to cram down their throats. I'm gonna craft a nastygram back at 'em this time.

Any suggestions? Many thanks.

=caduceus=

Subject: In just one year


In just one year . Remember the election in 2006?

Thought you might like to read the following:

A little over one year ago:

1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.

Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:

1) Consumer confidence plummet;
2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3.50 a gallon;
3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);
4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate
(stock and mutual fund losses);
5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;
6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.

America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!

Remember it's Congress that makes law not the President. He has to work with
what's handed to him.

A liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own.

[cynatnite]

1. Edited...

The repukes mortgaged America to the hilt to pay for their fucking war and now it's caught up to us.

They can blame the Dems for not defunding the war, but it wouldn't have ended the war. Bush still would have kept the troops there.

[NMDemDist2]

2. oh for Dawg's sake!! talk about a Non Sequitur!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cum_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc

[Gman]

19. You're exactly right but

this is completely over their head.

[yardwork]

3. I don't think that anyone seriously believes that Democrats are to blame for this.

If I were you I would delete it without replying. Anyone who actually believes this is hopeless.

[caduceus111]

9. Agreed....but,

I've been deleting this drivel for long enough. It's time to put them in their place with some actual facts. Don't really care if they don't change their mind, but a seed of truth can open eyes sometimes.

=caduceus=

[yardwork]

21. Sure. Compare all those variables to what they were in the year 1999.

Keep going back. Compare all those variables to the last time there was a Democratic Congress and Democratic President - what was the cost of a barrel of oil back then? What did a gallon of gas cost? Consumer confidence?

There are charts floating around here on DU that show how the economy has been totally trashed since Bush took office. It's gotten steadily worse.

[melody]

4. You'd have to be stone ignorant to the point of psychosis to buy that logic

What morons.

That email disputes itself.

[Richard Steele]

5. You want "suggestions"? I have two for you.

I SUGGEST you get to know folks around here
before you start posting cut-n-pasted
RIGHT-WING CRAPAGANDA in DU's "General Discussion" forum.

And I SUGGEST you brush up on your mastery of "English".


Because if you walk in here as a stranger with bad grammer,
re-posting RW Nonsense like this, a whole lot of folks are
gonna assume that you're a TROLL, like a thousand trolls
we've seen before.

[caduceus111]

20. Wow.

Bad day or something? I know things are contentious here lately, but how about not assuming one is a troll from the get go? It's never a good idea to knock someone's GRAMMAR when you don't even spell it correctly. I've been around here a while, when conversation was a notch more civil on DU. Maybe that's part of why I don't post so much. Probably also because I have a busy medical practice and I am in the hospital 80 hrs a week.

As for the topic on hand, what forum/site would you suggest that WE LIBERALS/DEMOCRATS/PROGRESSIVES go to to refute the inane talking points that wingnuts/repukes/repuglicans stuff our email boxes with? Do you really think that cutting/pasting a RW email will convert someone to the dark side? I think it highlights the absurdity of what some nearsighted people are thinking, and it provides an opportunity to "educate" them on the realities, and counter their arguments. If we've come to the point where we can't even discuss these things, then we really have regressed more than I thought.

[Richard Steele]

29. Yeah- clearly, that didn't come across the way I intended. My bad.

I was tired, and not completely coherent. (I misspelled "grammar"? :rofl:)

I certainly didn't mean to imply that you were a troll;
I was honestly just trying to inform you that others
might jump to that conclusion. I've seen it happen
more than once to decent DUers who started threads
about some obnoxious RW eMail they received.

Obviously, I failed- that post reads more like some
thinly-veiled accusation than friendly advice.

I assure you, that was not my intent. For any misunderstandings
that arose from that post, I accept full responsibility
and hereby apologize:

I'm sorry.

Sincerely,
Richard Steele

[caduceus111]

31. No worries.

Appreciate your reply. Things don't always come across as intended when typing.

=caduceus=

[yardwork]

23. I didn't notice any bad grammar in the OP's post - just in the stuff that was quoted.

The OP stuck around and responded to posts on the thread. Not all newbies are trolls.

[Richard Steele]

30. I agree. Please see my post #29 directly above. nm

[yardwork]

33. That was very gracious of you!

[HawkerHurricane]

6. Let's play a different game.

Let's compare 1993-2000 with 2001-2007.

Consumer confidence?
Price of Gas?
Unemployment?
Stocks?
Home values?
Foreclosures?

We voted against change in 2000, got change anyway, and look where we are now.

[MannyGoldstein]

7. Neither cast ye your pearls before swine

But if you really must, send them to my web site, www.blueworksbetter.com - their eyes will pop out.

[Yael]

8. Here ya go:

AT THE CLOSING BELL WHEN BUSH TOOK OFFICE on January 22, 2001

Dow -- 10,578.24
Nasdaq -- 2,757.91
S&P 500 -- 1,342.90
Oil -- $27.69/bbl
Gold -- $266.70/oz.

AT THE CLOSING BELL on April 11, 2008

Dow -- 12,325.42
Nasdaq -- 2,290.24
S&P 500 -- 1,332.83
Oil -- $110.14/bbl
Gold -- 924.90/oz.

Booyah.

Another thread on this that may have other ideas (I just copied my post from it): http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5471456#5471534

[cynatnite]

11. Over seven years ago oil was just under $28 a barrel.... now it's over $110

The oil execs sure got what they wanted.

[Yael]

14. Yeah, its something.

Ozymandius, UpInArms and Dementer launch the daily Stock Market Watch threads in LBN if you want to get daily snapshots.

:hi:

[davidinalameda]

13. $28 dollars a barrel?

those were the good old days huh?

[Yael]

16. No kidding

Good thing we went into Iraq to free the people oil, right?

[caduceus111]

17. Thanks much for some concrete data.

I read somewhere that even though the markets are technically up from 2001, the loss of the value of the dollar has basically eaten those gains.

=caduceus=

[Yael]

18. Your measure on that is gold

Oil and gold have remained consistent to each other, but rising sharply in $s

I don't know if the SMW group has the data handy, but the dollar vs yen/euro/pound/loonie would be a good measure as well.

Edit to add -- SMW = Stock Market Watch. It is a daily thread opened in the Late Breaking News forum M-F. If you ask in there tomorrow morning (after the active thread is opened), they may be able to help. If they can -- please post in here what the numbers are.

:hi:

[yardwork]

22. Speaking of the dollar, compare its value against foreign currency now and in 1999.

[alfredo]

10. The Republicans in the Senate has blocked any attempts to stave off

the collapse we are seeing now. What changes we got past them have been ignored by King George. If he doesn't like a law, he does a signing statement saying he reserves the right to ignore the law.

Even in the best of worlds, there is no way to undo the damage to our economy, or military, and constitution after all these years of republican rule.

[Yael]

12. Oh, and welcome to DU

:hi:

[Better Believe It]

15. Don't Worry About Your Grammer Here!

We have one or perhaps two people here who knock any working class person that uses "bad grammer". You're not required to have a degree in English to post on DU.

That would truly be elitist!

[treestar]

24. The morons always do this

If things were going well, it would be to Chimpy's credit.

Congress can do nothing without the President signing the bill - so blaming Congress is utterly hilarious. Unless you take the usual right wing double standard that Congress should only come up with bills the President will sign.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

It never fails. All bad things happening during the Chimp's era can be traced to something Clinton did which, apparently, the Chimp could do nothing about. All good things happening are due to Chimpy's excellent ministrations.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Bigmack]

25. Economic Reality....

Oil is $112 a barrel, gasoline is $3.50 a gallon, and the Euro is $1.58 today. Gold is $925

Oil was $27 a barrel, gasoline was $1.64 a gallon, the Euro was  92 cents, and Gold was $267 when Bush came into office. 
- - - - - - - - -
Bush Would Use Power of Persuasion to Raise Oil Supply

WAYNE, Mich., June 27, 2000 -- Gov. George W. Bush of Texas said today that if he was president, he would bring down gasoline prices through sheer force of personality, by creating enough political good will with oil-producing nations that they would increase their supply of crude.

"I would work with our friends in OPEC to convince them to open up the spigot, to increase the supply," Mr. Bush, the presumptive Republican candidate for president, told reporters here today. "Use the capital that my administration will earn, with the Kuwaitis or the Saudis, and convince them to open up the spigot." 

"...high gas prices are the sign of a failed presidency.." - DICK Cheney, 1998. 
- - - - - - - - - -
The national debt was $5.7 Trillion when Bush took over and over $9 Trillion today, with the costs of the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars not even in the Budget.  
In his last three years in office, Clinton not only balanced the budget, he began paying off the debt.. $355 Billion dollars worth.  

In his last three years in office, Bush added at least $4 Trillion to the debt.....and that doesn't include the cost of the Iraq War.   

- - - - - - -
Stock Market:
Dow.....January 14, 2000: 11,722
Dow.......April 12, 2008: 12,325
That's a net gain of 603 points in 7 years.

But.... Taking inflation into account....
$11,722 in year 2000 dollars are now worth $13,725 dollars due to inflation. If you equate a share with a dollar, the Dow has therefore lost approximately $1,400 when adjusted for inflation.  (And remember... the government measure of Inflation doesn't include food or fuel!)

On January 20, 2001, 1 Euro cost $.92 USD. If you had spent $11,722 USD on Euros you would have been able to buy 12,741.3 Euros.  If you had put those Euros in a sack under your mattress, they'd be worth $20,131.26 USD.

That's right, you would have been better off keeping a sack of Euros under your bed for 7 years.

[bluedawg12]

26. There's plenty of info out there on the net

try looking around and see what you find.

Also, why waste ggod ether space on crap. It won't change anyone's mind on the mailing list.

[Mz Pip]

27. Okay

so what laws did the Democratic Congress bring to Bush that he signed to bring about all this downturn?

I'd ask for a specific law, ban, amendment that got through Congress that Bush signed to make this happen.

[caduceus111]

28. Thanks

All good ideas. Time to poke some holes in that email.

Thanks all.

[caduceus111]

32. OK, here's the reply I sent.

Thanks everyone for the ideas. I lifted a few of your comments, and added a few of my own. Links provided in text for substantiation:

My response to this drivel is in blue below. I say let's play a different game, looking back to January 20, 2001, and try to stick to the facts, not assumptions of causality.


Subject: In just one year

In just one year . Remember the election in 2006?

Thought you might like to read the following:

A little over one year ago:

1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;

Seven years ago, prior to Bush entering office consumer confidence was at an all-time high.


2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;


Seven years ago, gasoline sold for $1.64 a gallon;


3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.


Seven years ago, the unemployment rate was 4.0%.


Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:

1) Consumer confidence plummet;

Which pales in comparison to the plummet since Bush entered office.


2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3.50 a gallon;


"...high gas prices are the sign of a failed presidency.." - DICK Cheney, 1998.

Gas prices have fluctuated month to month, but have almost steadily increased since 2001, primarily due to the failure of a sound energy policy for the past 7 years, and the crashing value of the dollar.

3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);

Which has averaged 5.2% since Bush entered office (and was 6.3% in 2003).

4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate

(stock and mutual fund losses);

Stock Market:
Dow.....January 14, 2000: 11,722
Dow.......April 12, 2008: 12,325
That's a net gain of 603 points in 7 years. Sounds great!

But.... Taking inflation into account....
$11,722 in year 2000 dollars are now worth $13,725 dollars due to inflation. If you equate a share with a dollar, the Dow has lost approximately $1,400 (13,725 - 12,325 = 1,400), or 10%, when adjusted for inflation. (And remember... the government measure of Inflation doesn't even include food or fuel!) Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;

On January 20, 2001, 1 Euro cost 92 cents, Oil was $27 a barrel, and Gold was $267.
Today, 1 Euro costs $1.58. Oil is $112 a barrel, gasoline is $3.50 a gallon, and Gold is $925.

It's the President who declares war using borrowed foreign money while at the same time cutting taxes that has run up the deficit and made your dollar worthless. Do you think YOU'D be wealthy if you bought everything on credit, and didn't generate any income?


6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.

Wow, 99% of homeowners paid their mortgage on time! Seriously, foreclosures have increased fairly steadily since 2005 on. Do you think all those with defaulted mortgages in 2007 owned their homes for only a few months? The new Congress opened in January 2007. See #2, 3, 4, and 5 for the reasons why people can't keep their homes after the disastrous fiscal policies of GW Bush for the past 7 years.

America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cum_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc">Cum hoc ergo propter hoc. That means "correlation does not imply causation." Biggest logical fallacy of them all. Like saying, "with a decrease in the number of pirates we have seen an increase in global warming over the same time period. Therefore, global warming is caused by a lack of pirates."

America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!

Thankfully Bush and his policies are so popular these days with the American people, we can rest assured that America won't be asking for change again!



Remember it's Congress that makes law not the President. He has to work with
what's handed to him.

I'm speechless. Was this written by an eight year old? Somebody needs a civics lesson.

A liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own.

Liberals believe compassion is a virtue and greed a weakness - Neocons have it the other way around.

=caduceus=

[Vanje]

34. Well done! Hit "reply all" to send

If you click on "reply all" ,your excellent rebuttal will go to everyone on your idiot kinsman's mailing list.