Obesity and are restaurants partly responsible for this?

[nadinbrzezinski]

So we went to IHOP the other day... yes my hubby likes their pancakes... and I remembered my mom mentioning that you could order from the senior menu

I went, ok... I am not eating as much as I used to...not since I started eating consciously.

So I ordered the Senior breakfast

So here is what it came with it

Hash browns, about four ounces of it (for the record enough carbs in one meal right there), two eggs, two slices of bacon, and I had a choice of two slices of toast or two pancakes

Given the size of their "normal" portions... this was down right "small"

So I turned to my husband and went... this is what an average hearty breakfast looked like thirty years ago. This was NOT a senior portion, but a regular portion at a restaurant. In fact, remove the pancakes and there you have it... what used to be normal.

Yes, been reeducating my eyes as to what a normal amount of food looks like

Suffice it to say that I could not finish this hearty breakfast, but over the years portion sizes have been super-sized and super, duper sized

And to prove my point that night I was watching bulging brides. Not because I want to make fun of these brides, but to see what these brides consider normal eating...

One of these women ate 13K calories in one seating (Chinese buffet), Another had 750 calories just for breakfast and 11K calories for dinner.

Here is the telling part, at no point did the dietitian try to change their impression of what a normal portion is, but even things like ... have half a bagel with peanut butter, coffee and a small piece of fruit for breakfast... that is a normal breakfast, but for these women (and they are not the exception) this is a very small amount of food. And I think restaurants have helped to skew what we think is normal, and given that many of us eat out far more often than we used to, we bring what we see at restaurants home, as a normal portion.

And I do blame restaurants partly for this problem. We have had portions grow... and I wonder if one of the solutions would be a massive, national reeducation campaign of what a portion looks like. Oh and add to that a massive PSA campaign on teaching people to LEAVE food behind. If you cannot finish it, try NOT to be part of the clean your plate club. Trust me, since I started doing that, I am not stuffed, and I can actually leave the table with a feeling of satiation, not the I can barely move, where is the couch, I am stuffed feeling.

For the moment you can reeducate your eyes, and once you do that... you will be amazed at the sizes of portions you are getting, like four or five carbs in one plate (rice), or the incredible amounts of fat that go with your meal. Once you learn how to do this you can do something about this, but in our national obesity crisis, I say restauranteurs were also partly responsible for this.

Oh and for the... salad healthy and nothing else crowd... start readying menus. You are in for a shock.

[Breeze54]

1. That's why restaurtants have doggie bags.

;)

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink."

Make a fist, that's a portion.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Of course and at times I do ask for doggie bags

hell we like chinese, I ask them to serve LESS rice and I end up sharing it with the parrots anyway... and half their portion of rice feeds
one human, one cockatiel, two conures and sometimes there is left over for dinner

LOL

And the birds exercise a lot more than I do

LOL

But I am still starting to think just how much responsibility restaurants have for the current crisis... and I will start with Mickey Ds... and go from there

[Jed Dilligan]

111. Last night I needed a kitty bag

All that was left on my plate were the head, bones, tail, and fins of the fish I just ate. Perfectly intact. Heathcliff special.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

3. I always get a doggie bag at restaurants.

I take half of it home and amortize the cost of the meal.

[Quantess]

4. This reminds me of my dinner at The Cheesecake Factory.

My boyfriend of 3 years took me to dinner. We both said we were hungry, but as soon as I looked around at the other diners' gigantic plates, I got intimidated, and wondered if I was really that hungry. I was doubly intimidated when I saw the prices on the menu (although my boyfriend wasn't worried).
But then, when I saw the "Low Calorie Salads" section.... yikes... everything was boasted to be "600 calories or less!" Which obviously meant a regular salad was about 1200+ calories, and the entrees would be about 2000+ calories. Then I looked at the neighbors' huge portions again, and figured it would probably be closer to 3000 calories if you cleaned the plate.

I suggested we split an entree, so we wouldn't have to take anything home. He thought it was a good idea, but he wanted an appetizer, too.
We shared the appetizer and the oversized entree, which worked out perfectly. He ate about 2/3, I ate about 1/3, and we both felt satisfied but not stuffed. The bill was about $30 for just the 2 food items (we drank water).

I was very happy that I had suggested we share the order!

[ginnyinWI]

5. Cheescake Factory has the biggest portions I've ever seen

in a restaurant. My teenage son ordered turkey dinner there once, and I swear it was served on a family-sized platter, just for him! Everything was two to three times a normal portion.

[Quantess]

7. That's saying a lot, coming from a person in Wisconsin!

Wisconsin restaurant servings are not to be trifled with. :)

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Thank you for making the point

some local delis have the same problem

[ginnyinWI]

10. you can say that again!

Those all-you-can-eat buffets are everywhere!

Since I've been diagnosed with mild diabetes, and am able to control it with only diet and exercise, I choose carefully in restaurants, but almost always end up needing to take half home.

The upside: I've got lunch the next day for free, and I never waddle out of a restaurant anymore feeling overstuffed. And no more anxiety or guilt about eating out, because I know I'm in control.

But even people with less reason than I have to control themselves should also realize that they have to make a conscious decision about how much they're going to eat. Learn exactly how much food will fill you up but not stuff you. It's not hard, and it's what naturally thin people do every day.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Eat consciously and slowly

and that is what that PSA campaign would have to include

[Hippo_Tron]

187. Your teenage son probably has a ridiculously fast metabolism especially if he's athletic

I remember when I was 14 - 15 and ran cross country and I'd eat a box of crackers after practice and still be hungry for dinner. Didn't gain weight either.

[proud2BlibKansan]

193. My boss took us to Cheesecake Factory

and most of us had enough for lunch for TWO DAYS.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. That's commonly suggested these days, to split entrees

and yes we went to the Cheesecake Factory for the first (and probably last time) about three months ago

And I got price shock....

Very good food... but lord...

We were both shocked at the prices.

I ordered an appetizer (the other suggestion) and he ordered a burger.

The bill came to somewhere around thirty bucks, we had coffee... and tom had a slice of cheesecake.

[Quantess]

9. The burgers are the most affordable dinners they serve. $10 and I'm sure it could feed two.

We got some kinda seared tuna appetizer (delicious) and jamaican prawns as the main course.

We're not cheap, (well I might be, but my boyfriend definitely isn't), but I don't like spending money on food that will go to waste, and definitely I don't like overeating. I have a tendency to clean my plate, which is a problem for weight control.

And, bleeding heart that I am, I can't help but think about the person sleeps under a bridge in a cardboard box, who wishes he could get served a scoop of our delicious meal that we won't be able to finish.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. As somebody said up thread

doggie bags...

:-)

As to thinking about the people who are starving when I worked in food service at a university, we tried to get the local shelter to come and pock up left overs, with not too much success

Granted that was a while ago, over twenty years, so somethings have changed, but getting much of that unused food that will go to the trash from point A to point B was back then almost imposible

[K8-EEE]

15. Doggy bags just don't work for me most of the time

Really the only time I ever go out to dinner is on the way to somewhere else -- I would rather not have half my dinner sitting in the car or worse have to lug it on the subway.

Splitting is great -- although it's sometimes necessary to compromise and get what the OTHER person wants!

What is really lovely is to find a place with nice food, decent prices, lots of non-meat choices and normal-ish portions where you don't feel like you're wasting any of it (either by leaving it or eating too much.) It's easier for big eaters to order two, right?

I really stay out of the chain places but I would say PF Changs has it right compared to Marie Calendars and some of the others.

[ginnyinWI]

23. In your place, I'd probably just stay away from the entrees,

and get salad or soup instead. Although yeah, sometimes you want to eat a hot meal. You can always get away with eating more if it's mostly vegetables. Like ask to substitute green beans for potatoes.

[Quantess]

33. LOL @ Marie Callenders!

I went there once, and I had the damndest time finding anything meatless! I do eat meat, but I don't always want to eat meat!

We have Thai restaurants in our neighborhood that serve the most fantastic food, and you can get it with meat, with tofu, or just vegetables. They also have just the perfect portions, it seems. We both are plate cleaners, and we like to get full when we go out to eat, but we both get anxiety if there is leftover food.

I don't like doggie-bags/boxes. It never tastes as good reheated, and usually gets thrown in the compost if we take it home.

[K8-EEE]

94. Marie Calendars = Heart Attack On A Plate

There used to be one by my office -- so strange, like if you order a sandwich they bring you a plate of "cornbread" with it which is really like a GIANT piece of cake, then they ask you if you want any pie!

That thing with the chili in the bread bowl looks like something you would pass around a dinner table to six people.

I'm sure 80% of people don't finish it, can you picture what the trash bins look like in these places? They must be FULL of food at the end of the day!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

95. PF Chang's is awful.

I had a bite of four or five different items. I couldn't eat them. Even with just a few bites in me, I burped all night. I have no idea what was in them. I had to eat something else.

[K8-EEE]

97. I LOVE the lettuce tofu wraps, the spicy green beans, and chow fun noodles!

I love PF Changs! It's one of the few big chains with LOTS of yummy vegan choices.

[Generator]

107. I think your clue there is the word Cheescake

any restaurant named that-is not going to be a good bet for light fair.

Which reminds me I avoid all those buffet type places-how can you stop eating when extra is free and they have every damn type of "salad"-oh you know macaroni, potato, bean, oh MY. I can't go to those places. I would end up sick after-just like the days of "potluck" at work. Always eating too much of that random goooey stuff. I always went home with the worst stomach ache ever.

If they had a restaraunt named Rice Crispy treats though I don't know if I could resist.

[Initech]

117. I take it you've never been to Claim Jumper then.

You can never even remotely claim to have had a big portioned meal until you've been there!

[pinniped]

154. CJ is probably my favorite chain restaurant.

I always have enough for lunch the next day.

[proud2BlibKansan]

192. Cheesecake Factory is known for its HUGE servings

And don't forget to leave room for cheesecake.

I always want to tell the waitress to just put that cheesecake on my ass; it's going to end up there anyway.

[K8-EEE]

13. The 'Murkin "Value Meal" concept is deadly....

It's like, take a normal amount of food and then add a mountain of some kind of cheap fried starch to it (hash browns, french fries) or a giant soda or some other form of empty calories.

It's a marketing strategy but I think people have sort of absorbed it as "normal."

I came to the conclusion it's better to eat smaller amounts of higher quality food. Food value has nothing to do with the volume of the food, rather the nutrition you get out of it.

It takes a while to get out of that "more is more" thinking -- habit needs to be coazed down the staircase one step at a time, as they say!

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. True and that is why I think we have to also blame restaurants for the crisis

I know we cannot forbid this by law... nor would prices of meals wold go down... but perhaps we need to reject this crap

[ginnyinWI]

16. did you ever see "Super-Size Me" ?

The guy that ate fast food for a month or something, and his health went downhill fast. He gained weight, but something else happened: he actually became addicted to the food and had a hard time giving it up. Even though he had been eating his girlfriend's vegan cooking before. That stuff is dangerous--whatever they're putting into it!

We gave fast food up years ago, except for the occasional Sub sandwich while on the road. But no more of that deep-fried stuff full of cancer-causing free-radicals for us. If you want fried stuff, it's better to have it at home made with fresh oil. And then there is the high-fructose corn syrup in everything...

[TwixVoy]

21. Instead of worrying about how much weight a person has on them

how about investing some of that worrying time in the rising costs of healthy foods which is actually causing riots in several nations as I type this? Maybe if healthy foods weren't so damn expensive right now the McDonalds dollar menu wouldn't look so nice to the large amount of people who find it more difficult every day to afford healthy foods.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. That is part of the policy questions that we must ask

and how to SET POLICY

[Quantess]

43. Was that a non sequitor or what?

Totally out of left field.

[TwixVoy]

71. Not really

I've been seeing/reading/hearing people cry and complain about the bad food and the unhealthy people who are eating it for as long as I can remember. I've also seen a lot of money being made off of so called fixes to the problem. Diet books, infomercials, CNN talking head BS, etc.

Know how many times I've seen any of those sources suggest we do something about poverty so people can afford healthy foods? Not one damn time.

I see the OP as just another spin off. Lots of complaining, no real solutions offered to the underlying problem.

[Quantess]

78. Good points! Let's begin by saying, I believe that stereotypes are harmful.

I say, if anyone wants to find out how a person can enjoy healthy living, they can figure it out, easily.

Stating the reality is something I personally believe in.

[nadinbrzezinski]

102. You are all for personal responsibility shifting blame et al

it seems

You are critizing a post that is making a point. THat is that Restaurants have some responsibly

And yes it all goes down TO NATIONAL FOOD POLICY... and health policy

Now if you want to discuss that, fine, but this thread is speaking of the responsibility busienses have in this

And yes Mickey Ds (et al) have some of the blame as they started the supersize fad that has SPREAD, due to expectations

You think it is all a person not eating... or changing what they eat fine

You think your bullet solution will be living wages (as much as we need them), fine, but they are NOT the only solution

You still have to teach a population what is healthy and at the policy level PUSH for it

Liberatarian crap like yours irks me

It is like the usual crap I hear all the time but, but they are fat because they want to... how much research do you want me to show you that shows a GENETIC component, not just a socio economic one

But the fact that milk is more expensive than it should, that my dear is national food policy

The fact that fruits and veggies are expensive as hell is national food policy

The fact that farmers at times get paid to let their famrs go fallow instead of planting certain crops, that is national food policy

As well as all the subsidies, again, national food policy

has this become a business? Yep... is it a crisis? Yep, do we need a national policy that deals with this, Yep... and does this include restaurants and portion sizes? Yep

I wish I could live in your mythological world where pointing ONE MINOR part of the problem to you is not important

Have a good fucking life

[Two Americas]

158. the most important point of all

"Know how many times I've seen any of those sources suggest we do something about poverty so people can afford healthy foods? Not one damn time."

Absolutely. We cannot base our agriculture and food policies on the whims and prejudices of the upscale and trendy few.

I know from tens of thousands of phone conversations with the public as they ordered fruit (no hyperbole there) that is is a very small segment of the population that is "organic" or "alternative" in their food choices - one in a thousand at the most - or even sees this as a matter of "personal choices." Yet the prejudices and whims of those few loom large, because they are the more affluent, they dominate the public discussion, and because those whims and prejudices represent a gold mine for marketers and hucksters.

We need to do something about poverty, and we need to support, protect and rebuild our public agriculture infrastructure. It is only because those two issues are invisible to people that obsessing over their personal food choices makes any sort of sense at all for them. The eaters - all of them - and the growers need to come first, followed by the scientists and researchers, the inspectors and regulators, and then and only then should we worry about the "choosers" - the fussy few, the busy bodies, the ideologues and the crack pots.

[nadinbrzezinski]

161. One point about GMOs, if we had a better science education

people could make a better judgement of the actual risks of GMO foods. There are risks, since essentially it is accelerated plant husbandry, and my issue with them is the inability of plants to produce seeds that will reproduce.

Now the use of DDT did have a really bad effect on the environment... but again I am talking from a policy perspective... but reality is, once oil is over the point of no return price wise... our current food infrastructure will collapse, and from a policy perspective you are thinking hunger right now? We may be looking at the death of anywhere from three to four billion people.

Food riots... you haven't seen anything yet... and at that point nobody will care if their food is organic.

I happen to be able to afford it, and like organic tomatoes better, since they have more flavor, but I can afford them. But, here is the real but... we cannot produce enough food organically PERIOD

[Two Americas]

172. three good areas for discussion

GMO foods - This is a crisis of proper testing and corruption of the agricultural college research programs by corporate money, and the general de-funding of public agriculture programs. The ignorance about this subject both with the general public, and with the anti-GMO activists is appalling.

DDT - There will always be trade-offs in agriculture. There is no way around this. Her again, the general public as well as the organic activists are abysmally ignorant. The public I do not blame, but the activists I do since the advocacy is so clearly dominated by misinformation and fear mongering and tailored to that which most successfully raises money from the public. It is a scandal, and an extreme danger to public health. Toxicology is a complex subject. Some compounds that are extremely hazardous degrade very quickly into safe compounds. Using a "safer" compound that is more persistent in the environment is a bad trade off. Many of the chemicals approved for "organic" are more dangerous but are presumed safe because they are "natural." This is anti-science, not good policy.

At some point, inevitably and eventually, the insects and critters eat or we do. There is no way around that. We are an animal on the planet competing for survival just as much as the other critters are. Deluging the public with propaganda that paints this as all or nothing, that claims that there is some magical way to live in perfect harmony with the insects and the beasts, when there are people going without food is a crime against humanity in my opinion.

The FDA has a zero tolerance policy on insects in produce, and growers risk fines and worse if they violate this. In my personal experience there are a ten thousand consumers who flip out if they find a bug in their produce for every one who flips out over possible pesticide contamination.

Advocate for more public funding for agricultural research and infrastructure - that is the socially responsible approach, and is the proper response to the right wing attempts to privatize everything, and the corporatization of our food supply. These are social problems, which make them political issues, and they need to be attacked by political action, not consumer choice and personalized and individualistic solutions. Trying to encourage or force people to make different consumer choices and embrace personalized and individualistic solutions does not change that.

Organic - There is no "organic" method of agriculture. It exists in the fevered imaginations of people far removed from real agriculture, and has now become a consumer hustle. It is more of a spiritual movement, a cult, than it is farming, and after decades of advocacy it still represents no serious or useful segment of agriculture. Meanwhile, small farmers are adopting safer and safer practices, but they are not called "organic" for reasons that have nothing to do with food safety, and everything to do with an elite club of self-important people who define themselves and their ideas as "whatever those redneck farmers are not doing." It has been amusing to watch the word keep getting re-defined in a desperate effort by its advocates to maintain the moral high ground, and the hell with science and evidence.

Surveying local upscale super markets over the last week, I see that 99% of the "organic" produce is from overseas, mostly from Mexico. It has "home grown" and nostalgic sounding names, like Aunt Susie's beans, but this produce is being marketed, often through dummy corporations, by companies owned and controlled by the corporate agri-business giants. In Mexico, declaring something to be "organic" means bribing a local official for the paperwork, slapping a label on it, moving it into the US through a holding company that specializes in this, and then dressing it up with fancy names and labels to fool gullible upscale consumers who think they are making the "right choices" and are willing to pay premium prices for substandard produce that has evaded inspection and regulation.

"Organic" does not "taste better" by the way. This is a myth. Fresh and in season taste better, and also there is a psychological effect - when people feel better about their food, it tastes better. Since modern consumers have no concept of seasons, ripeness, or freshness, they are vulnerable to being fooled about this "organic tastes better" lie.

There is no difference between an "organic" piece of fruit and any other piece of fruit that can actually be measured by testing the piece of fruit. It is the label on the produce that makes people think it tastes better. Often they are comparing a fresh and in season piece of fruit that is labeled "organic" with a piece of fruit that has sat in a corporate warehouse for a year, and that was bred for appearance and color rather than flavor.

[Two Americas]

65. important point

Any time we can shift the discussion away from "personal choice" and over to public policy, we are helping to overcome the libertarian and reactionary political climate.

[SoCalDem]

17. I started using salad plates at home.. Less food looks like more

and since my husband's a diabetic, we have to be careful about portion size.. Apparently we are doing OK, since his doctor actually worries because his cholesterol is too low :rofl:

and when we eat out we often share one regular meal and each get a small dinner salad..saves money too :)

Unfortunately menopause gave me a buddha belly, and no matter how little I eat it never goes away:(

[K8-EEE]

19. That is really smart advice!

I actually read where the size of cereal bowls and even the spoons has doubled since 1970 -- and the people get bigger too of course!

[SoCalDem]

22. and we eat our cereal dry.. as a snack..

don't need milk and never liked the taste of it anyway

[drmeow]

28. Me too

[Retrograde]

113. a kindred soul!

I can't stand the texture of milk, and fail to see how anyone can relish a nice, cold glass of cow secretions. Ruins the cereal. Mr. Retrograde does not understand this and will not be in the same room when I eat cereal.

Back to topic: I like a good-sized breakfast occasionally, especially when traveling and not planning on eating again until dinner. But that's usually one egg, toast, a sausage and fruit. Otherwise toast and fruit are more than enough.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. I use small spoons at home LOL

[flygal]

79. That's what I do - I've kept 8 pounds off!

I actually use my kids plates and cups for juice. I also use desert forks to eat with - and it's kept my stomach a little smaller. Now for the next 8 pounds!! lol

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

89. My dinner plates after 20 years are practically in mint condition because we always use

salad plates. Unfortunately, it doesn't make a dent in my super size. Too many years of yoyo dieting from my teenage years and onward took a horrible toll, and losing weight in menopause has been impossible so far.

I might look at the brighter side of that though, if I used my dinner plates I might even be bigger???

PS..thank goodness my kids have always been slim and I think the salad plates have helped. :)

[glowing]

90. Have you tried Yoga.. It balances your body out really well. Or even

Tai Chi.. very good for your energy.

[KansDem]

115. I started doing that after "Diabetes School"

Following a diagnosis of diabetes 4 1/2 years ago, I attended "Diabetes School" where I learned about food, sugar and carbs, reading labels, and tricks like the one you described. I too went to smaller plates and, for a while, I got out my children's first silverware--you know those little sets of forks, knives, and spoons, for toddlers, and used them. Sounds silly, I know, but when you're trying to cut down on food intake, smaller plates and silverware helps!

[TwixVoy]

18. You know I may be the minority on this

But I view people who worry about what other people are eating on the same level as people who worry about what other people are doing in their bedroom.

I for one happen to LIKE big amounts of food when I go out to eat. In fact, that's part of the reason I go. I have no reason to get smaller amounts - nor does the establishment have an obligation to provide smaller amounts - just because YOU a person who does not even know me for whatever reason decides to make it your business to worry about what I am eating.

No one is forcing you to eat more. I even wonder why you would think the senior meal would be extra small. That would usually be the KIDS meal.... and if it ended up being more food than you wanted to eat take it home, or don't. But don't tell me the food establishment is bad because they provided a large amount of food.

And with all due respect, I can think of literally about a thousand other more productive things to do than sit around worried about exactly how many calories people are eating - people you don't even know for that matter... and that's part of the problem. You don't even KNOW them. Maybe they don't eat 750 calories "just for breakfast" all the time. Maybe they do. But frankly, it's none of your business... and it's certainly none of your business to go around criticizing people who choose to eat 750 calories for breakfast just because YOU don't think they should.

This is part of the problem with society in general in this country. Thousands and thousands of children are going hungry right now and you'll never hear about it, but god damn if Britney Spears eats a big mac and looks like she's gaining some weight it might even make "Breaking News" on CNN with a two hour debate about what to do with people who like big macs.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. You might not personally worry

but public health figures and sky-roceking diabetes and heart disease are a matter of national policy

[TwixVoy]

25. Please

spare me the greater good post.

"Not because I want to make fun of these brides, but to see what these brides consider normal eating"

For some people it's all about "Look at the fat ass!"

If the people spending time writing about "Hey look at this overweight person! Isn't this bad?" and "Oh can you believe how much food I got at Ihop!" Actually gave a damn they would be writing articles about what to do in order to solve the problem of healthy foods no longer being affordable for many people in this country right now.

After all when we sit around talking about all those people buying food off the McDonalds value menu we just KNOW they all have the finanical resources to afford $5/gallon milk, $3/lb oranges and $3/dozen eggs right? Right? Right?

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Again that enters into the real of POLICY

and how we set FOOD POLICY

and yes RESTAURANTS are part of that food policy

Spare me the don't look at my plate, or people want to see a fat ass

Look at NATIONAL HELATH status, that also includes national health care and access to health care

So spare me the you are insulted ok... this was an observation based on real life and how that FOOD POLICY and NATIONAL policy has changed over the last few years as well

[TwixVoy]

40. There is no food policy

Last time I checked Ihop is not regulated.

Again, the amount of food served at ihop (which is something a poor family could only hope for) doesn't mean a thing. For the amount of money you are paying for the senior breakfast (which you are fortunate to have the money to go out and pay for) - millions of people in this country can't even afford breakst at home - it DAMN well better not be a micro amount of food.

When you start writing posts about what should be done to make healthy food affordable then get back to me about the evil Ihop making all those middle class people who choose to eat there so fat.

Go ask the working mom making minimum wage if she likes having to feed her kids McDonalds dollar menu food because real food is so damn expensive now. That is not a choice my friend. Sitting your middle class ass down at Ihop and then complaining about how much food you get is.

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. You haven't been around here long

So tell me, you are sure I am not conceded about living wages another day

or for that matter about inflation (as in the real thing, not the fantasy figures from the feds)


This was an observation and HOW restaurants are also responsible

And yes, there IS a national food policy

Perhaps you've missed it but it happens to occur at places like your school lunch or agricultural subsidies, but thanks for playing

[TwixVoy]

62. Oh yes at school lunch

Because the OP was clearly talking about school lunches in her Ihop post right?

I may not have been around here long, but I've lived in the real world. I have employees coming to me telling me they actually have to live off the McDonalds value menu these days, and have to feed their kids from that menu because our multi-billion dollar company decided to cut hours again.

Get back to me when millions of people in this country aren't living in poverty and can afford to buy healthy food every day. Then I might actually give a damn about a persons judgment of another random person they don't even know and how they are upset with them for eating unhealthy.

Until then I will view you the same way I would a republican forcing people in to poverty and then crying about the crime rate going up and condeming them for it. It's always fun to sit in judgement over others isn't it?

[Donnachaidh]

69. You have employees that are forced to eat McDonald's?

Hey sport -- how's about YOU doing something for those employees? Give them RAISES, I'm sure they'd appreciate THAT much more than you think. THEY are part of the poverty problem yes? And you're the boss, right? :eyes:

[TwixVoy]

70. I think you've just demonstrated how out of touch you are

I'm a mid-level manager at the store level. We are a multi-billion dollar retailer. So surely *I* decide how much everyone gets paid. Sorry, it's all the people at corporate who have full control over that... and they are probably just about as out of touch with the working poor as you are. Of course I have to see it every day.

[Quantess]

77. nadinbrzezinski, don't just tell someone "thanks for playing" because they piss you off

Also, I think you need some Advanced ESL classes.

[nadinbrzezinski]

103. Ah the lovely grammar flame

WHOOHOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Quantess]

185. nadinbrzezinski, I think you're an amazing person!

:hi:
I enjoy arguments. Thank you for bringing intelligence to the table.

Edit for spelling.

[alittlelark]

151. Check out a few of the other threads..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3150514

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3166230

[nadinbrzezinski]

156. WOW I am seeing a granite pizza in somebody's future

Not kidding here.

[treestar]

189. ITA, "thanks for playing" is just rude

Snide and superior, but at the same time proving inferiority in not being able to deal with opposition.

[Two Americas]

73. far from the truth

Agriculture and the food supply is the most tightly regulated and socialized aspect of our society, and has been highly successful as a publicly managed resource. This magnificent public welfare infrastructure is crumbling now, thanks to decades of attack by the right wingers and ignorance and apathy from the general public.

I agree with you, if I am understanding you correctly, that people obsess too much over the "personal choices" aspect of this debate, and that Americans are spoiled and self-absorbed, and also that people tend to ignore the reality that starving and poor people face around food issues in their hyper-sensitive focus on their own diets, but the OP has said several times that we need public policy in this area, and that thinking should be encouraged and supported.

Food needs to be seen - and has been seen by every successful and compassionate society - as a public resource, held in common and managed for the benefit of all. It once was here, and still is to some degree, but it is under assault. Personal choice will never replace public management of food and agriculture.

[Quantess]

61. Sorry, he is right. There is no definitive "food policy"

It is all based on restaurants' bottom line, and what they think is the best way to get the best return on their investment.

But by bringing up this discussion, it helps restauranteurs decide what they are going to do about the trends in portions, prices, etc.

[Two Americas]

74. quite to the contrary

It is the public policies that support and subsidize certain crops that make certain foods more affordable, and more likely to show up in the restaurant. Subsidizing grain, and indirectly beef and pork made sense in the 30's when people were protein deprived and many people were not getting adequate calories.

Senator Harkin, John Edwards and many others have called for a shift in priorities, with caps on subsidies so that some funds are available to small farmers, and away from grain (and especially away from cotton!) and over to fruits and vegetables. That would go a long way toward changing people's diets, by making meat a little more expensive while making fruits and vegetables more affordable and encouraging a wider range of varieties becoming available to consumers, which makes them more interesting food choices.

Americans eat about one fifth the amounts of fruits and vegetables that Europeans eat, and this is a function of suburbanization, which has driven the farms farther away from the population centers, the bland and limited range of varieties, and the cost. French fries and burgers give more bang for the buck, with our current agricultural policy priorities. We can't blame the people for making their food dollars stretch as far as they can. It is snobbishness to expect the entire population to be "making the right choices" - the food choices that people in Marin county California are making.

Studies have shown that Americans, under increasing economic pressure, are actually making the best calories per dollar decisions when they buy food, and the criticisms of people's diets, as though they reflected personal flaws or stupidity, and the increasing support for boutique and novelty farming to give upscale people "better choices" I see as a combination of the libertarian "personal choice" mentality combined with food snobbery from an upscale segment of the population. Both are working against building public support for rebuilding and supporting our public agricultural infrastructure.

[Quantess]

75. self--delete

[Quantess]

76. This rings especially true to me

Americans eat about one fifth the amounts of fruits and vegetables that Europeans eat, and this is a function of suburbanization, which has driven the farms farther away from the population centers, the bland and limited range of varieties, and the cost.

You and nadinbresinski are absolutely right, when you say there are public policies regarding food production.

But, individual restaurants have no control of these policies! Even the franchise owners of a chain fast food restaurant have NO say as to food policies. Is that clear? How could you even think that?

Two Americas :loveya:

[Two Americas]

126. oh good

I was afraid with your first post - "self delete" - that I should brace myself for a beating lol.

With the domination of the restaurant industry by corporate chains, decisions are made far away from the site and are based solely on returning the maximum income to the shareholders. The "healthy living" and "healthy eating" campaigns they run are all pr hype and marketing. Boycotting, and making the "right choices" and other consumer choice strategies for affecting these corporations will always be weak and require far, far more input than is justified by the results they produce - it is throwing marshmallows at a charging rhino. Some will say that throwing marshmallows - doing small little things - is better than nothing, but is that true? I do not think that it is. It distorts and minimizes the extent of the problem and makes it more difficult to build support from the public for what is really needed - public policy and regulation in the best interests of the entire public.

Practically every step of the way, food production is inspected, regulated, and managed by public agencies. This is the way it should be. The job is to sustain the farm land and the farming communities and families, and to feed the entire population safely and affordably. This can never be achieved by the "personal choice" model - really libertarianism with an "organic" label slapped on it. It requires public policy and public infrastructure, and that requires support from the public, and the individualism of the "personal choice" model can undermine that and work against that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

104. There is a national food policy

look around, who gets subsidies and who doesn't

Fields left fallow instead of certain crops

That help determine the price that restaurants (and you) pay

By the way here are some elements of this food policy

USDA

Subsidies

Federal School Lunch Program

Food Stamps

WIC

Any other questions?

Just because it is not as centralized as it could be, does not mean there isn't one...

[Two Americas]

127. it is very important to understand this

Food safety and quality inspection, soil and water management agencies, crop rotation, agricultural research programs, and on and on. You cannot turn over a spadeful of soil on the farm without some public agency and program involved. This is a good thing - farmers think this is a good thing - and the right wingers are trying to rip it apart and destroy it. Our public agricultural infrastructure is built on hundreds of years of experience and development and the contributions of millions of people. It works. Our lives depend upon it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

129. I fear it is not only the Right WIngers since many

folks on this side do not even get it, that we have a national food policy

[murielm99]

41. I'm glad you posted this.

Nevermind the poster who told you off. This is an important topic.

My husband and I have begun sharing an entree, too. I thought it was simply because we are getting older and eating less. But it is because the portions are getting larger. When did this change? We never eat such huge portions at home. Our children who are in their twenties do not eat that way, either. Do you think most people do eat such large amounts at home? That is a serious question.

My parents always want to take us out to those buffet restaurants. I think some people may view them as an excuse to overeat. I don't enjoy those types of restaurants.

For the first time, we are beginning to have a serious debate about national health insurance. If we get anything approaching national health care after Congress gets through with it, we will first need to address prevention and health. We will need to treat those who are ill, of course. But maybe national health care will begin to get us back on track to better health.

[drmeow]

35. Restaurants should provide options

I could care less what you eat but I would like to not have to ask for them to leave the sour cream off my meal and still have to pay for it. It used to be that you could add those things to the dish - now they are automatically added. It would be nice to have menus be, literally, "a menu" - that way if you want all the fixin's but I only want some, we can each order exactly how much we want and only pay for what we want.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Many people don't remember it used to be that way

but you are right... even if it is a PITA to calculate each one of those things...

for the restaurant owner that is

[Manifestor_of_Light]

96. I wish they would offer the same entrees in different sizes.

They offer drinks in different sizes in fast food joints.

Why can't we have the standard giant portion size entree (which I call two meals) for 10 dollars, say, and then the one-half size dinner, which a normal small person would eat, like me, for 5 dollars? Why so much waste?

The only way to get a small portion is to get a senior citizens portion, and I'm not old yet. I don't think that's fair. They should have smaller entrees for smaller appetites.

[Pharlo]

99. No kidding about the options.

When I go to Qdoba, I like the naked grilled veggie salad (naked referring to no fried tortilla salad shell). I request pinto beans and grilled fajita veggies to be added. I pay extra for that. Not an issue. But, when I decline the cheese and guacamole, I don't get a rebate. Why is that?

I'll continue to order it how I order it, but I don't see why they have to automatically include the cheese and guacamole. They're a 'choice' too.

[glowing]

91. Well, it is a problem.. the food we eat in America is crap.

There are GMO's and bad oils and just plain cheap crap. I spend time stopping at different places on my way home to get the foods that are good. Our home is like a gormet restaurant... I was watching a movie yesterday.. that had gormet chefs.. and it made me think about how good food can be and how it is art for your tongue and the building blocks for your body. If trash is going in, you can't expect to find a healthy glowing person looking back at you in the mirror. The food in this country does need to be subjected to more rigorous standards.. and the food they are serving should be about quality, not quantity.

[Dreamer Tatum]

135. Today's Kids Meal is what a burger & fries used to look like

I have a friend who lost a lot of weight doing a junk food diet - instead of the usual portions, they
ordered kids meals and drank only diet soda.

Still, this is a stupid diet. There is such a thing as metabolic obesity - having a skinny body but being
in terrible health.

I am amazed at the amount of food you get in a Denny's breakfast that sells for $4.99. Jaw-dropping.
I don't think the calories / cost ratio is as high for any other meal. I wonder how they can do it...
must be the hash browns and pancakes.

[1]

27. so... put down your fork and step away...

you are not required to eat what they serve you.

aside from your "holier than thou" attitude, what exactly is the problem here?

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. You've missed the rising rates of diabetes type two, obesity and

heart disease... haven't you?

[1]

31. no...

you missed the part about putting down your fork...

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. And you are bothered by having PSAs TEACHING people what a normal

portion looks like?

You feel threatened by that?

[1]

48. no...

i don't live my life by psa's. psa's, "the more you know..." spots, children's specials, etc., have no effect on how i live my life. apparently you have the need to have some "greater" power approve of your every action.

ok. i don't get it, but ok. watch your psa's and probably nbc spots to tell you exactly how you should live your life and what size of a piece of chicken you should consume in one setting. good for you and good luck with that.

but, and pay attention here, i do know when to put my fork down, all on my own. i know. all by myself. amazing as that might be to you...

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Apparently you came here to tell us how to live our lives

by the way PSAs are part of POLICY

by the way, have a nice day and enjoy your stay, as long or short as it may be

By the way part of the obesity problem is the fact that people no longer have a clue of what normal looks like or feels like

[1]

72. "enjoy your stay, as long or short as it may be"

nice.

i love your horseshit veiled threat as your thoughts are so much more worthy than mine. after all, you have dumped your nonsense posts here for over 1000+.

how could i compete with that? i am not worthy of an opinion such as yours, in your 1000+ mind. aside from telling you where the "alert" button is.

how about this. your ideas and opinions might be as full of shit as anyone's here, including mine. your 1000+ buys you nothing.


but before i am tombstoned, put down your fork. stop eating all on your own. you do not have to eat everything on your plate. starving children in china will not benefit from this. put down your fork.

put down your fork...

put down your fork...


and you don't need a psa or any policy to know this.

[BoneDaddy]

86. Wow you hold everyone but the individual accountable

what a crock. It STARTS with the individual's accountability and then moves outward in a concentric circle of accountability. Sure restaurants bear some minor accountability, but the individual has the final say.

[nadinbrzezinski]

106. Ah libertarian crock thinking coming to this site, lovely

what's next? Pull yourself by your bootstraps and don't expect any help in a disaster?

WOW

[BoneDaddy]

130. How bout you get your head out of your nether region

and realize the individual HAS responsibility for their own life. Stop blaming everyone but the person. The individual AND the larger society bear accountablity but ULTIMATELY it comes down to you and me. Stop with the victim mentality and realize that you are harming people by perpetuating your learned helplessness.

[nadinbrzezinski]

138. What learned helplessness

by the way... you realize that NOT ALL can be solved by the individual alone

We live in a SOCIETY... say it after me, SOCIETY... that means a GROUP

Some solutions DO REQUIRE social input... and believe it or not this may very well be one of them

Now here is from Websters

Main Entry:
1so·ci·e·ty
Pronunciation:
\sə-ˈsī-ə-tē\
Function:
noun
Inflected Form(s):
plural so·ci·e·ties
Etymology:
Middle French societé, from Latin societat-, societas, from socius companion — more at social
Date:
1531
1: companionship or association with one's fellows : friendly or intimate intercourse : company
2: a voluntary association of individuals for common ends; especially : an organized group working together or periodically meeting because of common interests, beliefs, or profession
3 a: an enduring and cooperating social group whose members have developed organized patterns of relationships through interaction with one another b: a community, nation, or broad grouping of people having common traditions, institutions, and collective activities and interests
4 a: a part of a community that is a unit distinguishable by particular aims or standards of living or conduct : a social circle or a group of social circles having a clearly marked identity <literary society> b: a part of the community that sets itself apart as a leisure class and that regards itself as the arbiter of fashion and manners
5 a: a natural group of plants usually of a single species or habit within an association b: the progeny of a pair of insects when constituting a social unit (as a hive of bees); broadly : an interdependent system of organisms or biological units

[BoneDaddy]

194. Are you blind?

I said the accountability is across the board but it begins with the individual. Of course societal and environmental influences impact, but ultimately the individual HAS to be accountable. Never ONCE have I suggested that exterior influences do not have power, NOT ONCE. What I said was that liberals tend to place the responsibility outside of the individual and conservatives tend to place the onus on solely the individual. Both are wrong.

If you would care to read instead of this knee jerk reaction you would have read that.

The reality is that there are circles of accountability starting with the individual and moving outward to immediate family, extended family and friends, neighborhood, state etc...

[Two Americas]

166. false dichotomy

The choice is not between "personal responsibility" - or "individual accountability" as you said it - and blaming everyone else.

Saying it starts with individual accountability does not tell us to whom individuals are - or should be - accountable. Themselves and only themselves?

The solid and timeless foundation of agriculture - agriculture is where food comes from, not a restaurant or a super market - is accountability to the general public by the individuals engaged in agriculture. Thanks to the commitment to community, and to political solutions to social problems, and to a cooperative and responsible approach by those growing the food, we have many eaters who are now free to think that they are accountable only to themselves and who see "personal responsibility" as the solution to social problems. The luxury to indulge in this libertarianism has been afforded to you by the sacrifices of others who are committed to the exact opposite ethic.

[BoneDaddy]

196. I never said it was an either or

I said it was both. Liberals tend to NEVER place any accountability upon the individual to educate themselves and make informed choice as if we are passive creatures. Conservatives tend to ignore the vast influence, intricacies and interdependencies of external forces.

I agree with you for the most part, but am reacting to many on this who simply want to blame society for people's suffering instead of holding both the individual and the larger forces at work accountable. It is both.

We do not live in a totalitarian society where access to good nutrition is being hidden from us. The bookstores, the internet, treatment centers and countless other resources exist out there.

[Skittles]

58. I think that has less to do with what people are eating

and more to do with the fact people simply don't MOVE as much as they used to - especially CHILDREN. I stuff my face in restaurants but I also exercise an hour every day.

[nadinbrzezinski]

109. Yeah the portion sizes are just PART of the problem

but I wanted to bring this to people's attention

THe fact is we also need to get people to move, that means changing how cities are designed, for example

[treestar]

190. You did not grow up during the Depression and were not raised

by someone who did.

Wasting food is guilt-producing.

Restaurants serve these portions to maximize their profit. In a society so concerned with weight, they deserve to lose customers.

[Fox Mulder]

32. It's partly the restaurant's fault as well as ours (as a nation).

Like you said, people need to reeducate themselves on what a healthy portion is (especially me).

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Exactly, it is our fault for expecting increasing amounts of

anything for less money... (leading to bigger portions of less quality food)

And restaurants going for the demand.

Symbiotic

[Fox Mulder]

37. And it's so easy to get larger portions too.

At my local Burger King, the difference between a large value meal and a King sized value meal is ~50 cents. Whenever I go there (twice a month) I always figure why not spend the extra 50 cents.

I need to quit doing that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. These days I order the Junior sized burger and that's it

with a drink

[TwixVoy]

46. Well considering it's made out of crap

I'm not surprised it only costs 50 cents more. No one is going to argue that. In fact - the small burger king burger or the large one you shouldn't eat either.

The problem is for a lot of people they can not afford healthy food any more. Say you are one of the millions of people in this country making poverty wages. 7/hr lets say. You've got rent coming up. You know last time you were at the grocery store milk alone costed $5/gallon. That burger king dollar menu with side order of dr pepper looks a lot more attractive all of a sudden.

I keep seeing so many people cry on FAUX news about the evil fast food places, but ask those same people if they support a living wage.

I work retail. You know how many employees I hear these days saying they go to McDonalds for the dollar menu because 7.50/hr can't allow them to afford real food at the grocery store anymore? Well no, I suppose people who go to Ihop for a $10-15 breakfast with tip wouldn't know that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Once again we are talking policy here

and yes I support a living wake, where I live it is about 16 dollars an hour, and for the record more than my husband makes an hour

But this is not what this is about...

Oh never mind...

[TwixVoy]

51. So you are saying you understand

that people making 7.50/hr can no longer afford to buy healthy food every day at the grocery store? True or false?

If true I assume you will not be complaining about them going to McDonalds until a living wage is in place, correct?

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. Apples and oranges

oh never mind

[TwixVoy]

67. Right apples and oranges

Because poverty and eating healthy are COMPLETELY unrelated.

[nadinbrzezinski]

108. NATIONAL food policy has a lot to do with the price of an orange

at the store...

Hate to point this out

[Fox Mulder]

50. The price of healthy food is outrageous.

And it's not going to get any better in the near future (if ever).

I remember a few years ago when I was struggling from one paycheck to the next while I was in college, I ate nothing but junk because it was so cheap.

It's too bad that a lot of people are spending more of their time complaining about who's bitter and who's elitist and Britney Spears and American Idol and less time (if any) on issues that really matter.

[TwixVoy]

53. Yes

It's also sad to see people who can afford $10-15 with tip breakfast at Ihop who are so out of touch they sit around condeming millions of people making poverty wages for not eating healthy.

[Fox Mulder]

57. I don't think that's what the OP was going for.

The OP wants people to reeducate themselves on what a healthy portion is in a meal.

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. EXACTLY

Hell going to Mickey Ds and having SIX chicken nugets and even small fries is not that bad

Now having a super sized meal might be a problem

[Firespirit]

42. I will be okay with decreasing portions if and ONLY if

it is accompanied by a decrease in the price of a meal.

Fat chance (:P) of that happening.

I am on the other end of the spectrum. My BMI is under 17. I can eat however much I want of anything I want. I struggle not to drop to an unhealthy weight and I have never weighed more than about 105 in my life. (Currently approximately 95.) I have to wear petite sizes and small clothes.

And you know what? I pay the same amount for a petite 2 as someone would for a regular 14. The women who need the "W" sizes do pay more, usually, but they GET more in terms of material. I should be paying LESS than average for clothes.

I will be PISSED if I suddenly have to see the same thing take effect with food as well.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. We also covered that, and there should be a decrease in price

though don't expect it to be fully proportionate

You still have the same overhead, as in wait staff that still need to be paid

But I would expect a decrease in some of that price

As to your eating habits I sincerely doubt you are eating 13K calories in one seating

But that is just me

[Firespirit]

55. I really have no idea

I've never counted calories. I eat till I can't eat anything else. If I go into a fast food place I will usually have a combo meal, an extra side (onion rings, baked potato, etc.) in addition to the fries, and some kind of dessert... but generally I cook for myself.

I am intimately aware of the cost of obesity to people who are not obese, and it manifests in many areas, not just health care. I mentioned clothing. I simply don't want the food and restaurant industries to use "health" as a pretext for charging the same amount for significantly less.

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. Do you exercise? And that meal, as bad as it is, (super-sized and all)

it is still NOT 13K calories, though you are looking at 25K in one seating

[Firespirit]

64. Uh, why is it so interesting to you?

I never said I regularly ate 13,000 calories at once.

My exercise consists of 10 minutes of walking per day, max. I am hypermetabolic and I realize it makes me something of a freak. But it works. If it ain't broke....

I'm all for restaurants doing their part to combat obesity. I pay for the epidemic too. But I do not support big business cynically using a public health problem as an excuse to screw people.

[nadinbrzezinski]

101. Sorry, but it is just interesting to me

but if they found a "fat gene" which they have... perhaps there is a "thin" gene, as they say

And to a point I envy you

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

152. Hypermetabolic? I think I have that.

I'll have to google it. My Dad, some brothers, my son, and nieces and nephews too. I never buy low-fat items, drink whole milk, half et half in the coffee, BUTTER!, and I cook homemade meals all the time. Last night we had Porketta roast with baked potatoes, french style beans, tonight I'll fry up the leftover potatoes in butter and onions and make scrambled eggs with onions and cheddar cheese to go with it. A Breakfast Supper. Tomorrow is homemade spaghetti and meatballs with salad and garlic buttered bread.
Friday, I've got a big beef roast ready for the slowcooker, I'll brown it in my good cast iron pan and pull it, add EVOO to pan, brown up some onions, then shred elephant garlic into it and immediately pour in Beef Broth to deglaze the pan. In separate bowl combine Cream of Mushroom Soup, packet Lipton Onion soup mix, 1 1/3 cup beef broth, and all that delicious flavor you can scrape from the cast iron pan. Mix it all up. Peel and chop 10 potatoes, 5 carrots, and 3 stalks sliced celery. Drop and mix thru sauce, pull and arrange in slow cooker. Coat both sides of browned roast with sauce, place in middle of cooker, pulling veggies up et over it. Pour rest of sauce over all. Cook 2 hours high, then 3-4 hours low. (sorry folks, got carried away with my menu)

Onions, butter, and garlic. esp. Elephant Garlic, YUMMM. That's the hub my kitchen runs around.
My wedding dress from 21 years ago still fits.

As to the OP, I have never been a clean your plate person, and find it very easy to put my fork down. My MIL dearest, is obese and always cleans her plate. and then some. She does have diabetes now, with insulin shots.

[nadinbrzezinski]

157. If she looses some of the weight

easier said than done... she might reduce her dependence on insulin or even stop it....

At least for a while.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

160. And there is the crux of the problem.

What I find easy is near impossible for her. She has a really hard time putting the fork down.
"Clean your Plate!!!" type. If ever I tried to take her fork, she'd beat the hell out of me, if she could catch me.

[New Dawn]

44. America has a serious weight problem.

65% of the adult population is overweight. Almost half of them are obese.

Something needs to be done. I am in favor of banning all advertising for food/beverages.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. How about the PSAs on what a normal portion of anything looks like?

at the policy level I see this as needed as well

[dger11]

52. Sounds like a bit of a 1st amendment violation. Where would

you draw the line? Ban TV ads? Signs? Colorful cereal boxes?

[TwixVoy]

66. Hell we need to round them up and shoot them

Hell with the constitution when the food police are on watch. No need to let some old paper stand in the way of us feeling high and mighty. Let's round up that mom making minimum wage for feeding her kids that cheeseburger while we're at it and put her on CNN to tell the world what a bad parent she is. <sarcasm>

[bean fidhleir]

81. Banning advertizing would be good. Also doing what TA suggests, above, and making

food, like healthcare, a non-profit public good available to all. Support local, intensive (small-plots, poly-culture, several crops per year) agriculture from taxes. Get rid of agribusiness, support farming by people who do it because they love the work.

[1]

68. i can fix this... PSA! *bling!, the more you know....*

*star of nbc sitcom, rachael says...

put down your forks, assholes. see this? its my hand. don't ever, EVER! eat a piece of chicken larger than this. put down your forks, assholes.

*bling!, the more you know....*



and through this psa all of our problems are solved. see? that's all it takes. a psa or two and all is well.


i'm just trying to sum up this entire thread in one post. think of it as a psa and you will immediately understand that you need no other posts.

just this one and you will understand immediately...

[rucky]

80. You should see the kids meals.

Now when my family of 3 go to a restaurant, we order one entree and one kids meal and come out full. We can eat out more often, too, because we save some $$

[Snarkturian Clone]

82. Yeah, we need MORE laws and MORE of a nannie-state.

First of all, nutrition is a pseudo-science. You might as well tell us to use astrology to determine what to eat. Everyone is different and responds to different foods and diets in different ways.

Second, there is no obesity epidemic. How come so many DUers tell me you can't believe the MSM but when they say something you agree with, you beat me over the head with their bullshit? BMI was invented in the 1800's based on white males with an average height of 5'4" and and average weight of 140 lb. Insurance companies use BMI to determine if you are obese. Since MANY people are obese according to BMI, insurance companies can then run to the MSM and yell "There's an obesity epidemic! Run!" Incidences of Type 2 diabetes are increasing for the same reason that autism is increasing. It's just being diagnosed more than it used to be. People who used to get by unnoticed with these conditions are now being diagnosed. Same applies to food allergies.

Third, stop trying to restrict freedom. If I want to go to Ihop and chug a hoddle of coffee and eat a 4 foot tall pile of pancakes, it's my right. Idiots like you are the reason we have dummy nanny state laws like smoking bans and requiring restaurants to cover their menus in nutritional facts (NYC). Basically a small group of little wusses who can't take care of themselves have brought on MORE government into our lives so they can be slightly more comfortable. :puke:

Fourth, no one's putting a gun to your head to go to a restaurant. Just because you don't approve of what restaurants serve you think the government should step in and help just so YOU feel better. Fuck that noise. PSA's? Are you fucking kidding me?

[nadinbrzezinski]

112. Nutrition equals astrology? Wow after that one buddy

you fiully lost me

Oh and there is no epidemic? I guess then the world health organization is full of it... okie dokie

[Snarkturian Clone]

119. Sorry if I offended you, oh enlightened one.

I'm sorry that you have to look at fat people once in awhile and how you find it distressing. Enjoy your government.

[nadinbrzezinski]

123. Sorry, but have family in Dietetics, and know how full of horseshit

that comparison is.

Enlightened one

By the way, in case you wonder, this crapy food= obesity ain't limited to the US

Again that special interest group called the WHO

[Snarkturian Clone]

134. Odin's beard!

but have family in Dietetics, and know how full of horseshit...

So that means that nutrition is a real science? Bullshit.

The WHO has an agenda just like everybody else. They are not sacrosanct, so stop bringing them up. EVEN IF THEY WERE RIGHT, making more laws is not the answer. Good thing you have the government to take care of you.

You are a nanny stater and an enemy of freedom.

[nadinbrzezinski]

139. Ok, point to me where I said make it illegal for IHOP to serve you socially

responsible food portions?

NOWHERE.

They have some of the RESPONSIBILITY for this crap. which you CANNOT SEE.

BUT PSAs do not LAW MAKE... now do they?

Or are you that much against education?

Obviously you are, since you think a SCIENCE is equal to astrology... I guess so is Astronomy

[Snarkturian Clone]

143. Wow, you're a mess. NT

[nadinbrzezinski]

146. RLOL just because I pointed to you this

doctor freud how much are you going to charge for the time?

And am I mess because I have mommy issues or daddy issues?

[Two Americas]

133. a few points

Nutrition is not a "pseudo-science" by any stretch of the imagination. You may be making your judgment here based on the avalanche of TV and radio ads pushing things with various false and misleading health claims. But that has nothing to do with the science of nutrition. As just one example, I personally know Dr. Russel Reiter who has dedicated his life to investigating the role of melatonin in human health. The research is extensive spanning over 45 years and is rock solid science.

Agriculture and food production and delivery are highly regulated by the "nanny state" and that is absolutely essential to maintaining a civilized society. The right wingers are attacking the public agricultural infrastructure, and it is very dangerous.

I agree with you about the epidemic of obesity, about the improved screening and detection making it seem as though certain diseases are on the rise, about the uselessness of the personal choice model for effecting desirable social outcomes - particularly those "choices" we are forced into by the authorities, and the impotence and worthlessness of PSAs.

[Snarkturian Clone]

136. See, I like this... an actual reasoned response.

Very rare on DU nowadays...

[nadinbrzezinski]

140. PSAs have their place and played a critical role in AIDS education

depends how you run them

[RadiationTherapy]

200. Hm. Astrology has helped me understand nutrition quite a bit.

You'd be surprised how the signs vary in their needs.

[Vinca]

83. We used to go out to eat at a local, funky diner on Friday evenings,

but stopped because the food portions were so big they were insulting. It felt like a bunch of pigs at a trough. I love to eat, but quality is more important than quantity.

[seabeyond]

84. restaraurants arent responsible. the people putting food in their mouth are

responsible. i really have issue making people into victims when they are the ones in control and are the answer

[nadinbrzezinski]

110. Once again look at PORTION sizes and how they have grown

and tell me they have no part in this ok

[seabeyond]

125. yes, i will tell you it is not a restaurant responsibility even portion size

i never finish a meal. or i am way hungary and i do. i gauge, judge, decide.

i have been a tad over weight, i have been perfect, and i have been underweight in my life. i am female from calif in 70's start of eating disorders..... been there done that, all of it.

it is the person that put the food in the mouth, the person that know when and how much to get off ass and exercise, that is responsible for their body

not a restaurant

someone orders large pizza. some pizza nazi gonna ask if he is eating whole thing themselves, same night without left over? of course not. the person is responsible for what is consumed.

being the responsible parent, we fast food no more than once a week, generally more every two weeks. i buy three order of fries for four and take portion out of the three for the fourth person. WHY>>>>

cause i am the responsible adult for the consumption of not only me but my kids too. moderation moderation moderation

[nadinbrzezinski]

142. So Mickey Ds supersized meals had NOTHING to do with this

never mind there is direct correlation with it.

Ok...

Never mind me... will stop looking at the weird correlations from JAMA and other places...

You are right, what would they know?

And I am also sure national food policy has nothing to do with this either...

Sorry

[seabeyond]

145. as i said, i recognize the impact of supersize and i desupersized it.....

since it is MY body and MY childrens body that i am responsible for. not mcd

are you going to blame the kids that tells the kid to jump off the roof, or are you going to blame the kid that jumps off the roof.

i am going after the kid that said.... ya I will jump

[nadinbrzezinski]

147. But I am talking about this at a national POLICY LEVEL, not you

or me... but NATIONAL HEALTH POLICY and how to turn this around and EDUCATE a population that Mickey D supersize (insert it here) is not healthy

For many folks that IS healthy

[seabeyond]

153. people KNOW it is not healthy. people CHOSE to be unhealthy

now is that choose, or chose. i get so confused

i am not into these types of national policy. people know and they make their choice. i dont care if someone is fat or not, genetically or cause of mcd. not my business. personal choice

[nadinbrzezinski]

155. Well some folks eat at Mickey Ds out of choice

others do it because that is what they can afford... (again national policy)

And some because they truly think it is healthy

I know the libertarian argument on the left, of this is your responsibility and not my bizz and I don't care why people are fat is actually leading to some of this problem

It is just as damaging to NATIONAL health policy and national education campaigns as the RIGHT'S belief that people on welfare are just that because they are lazy.

And yes, the attitude is a mirror of each other

For the record I do wish it WAS that simple

[seabeyond]

162. i do not agree with you. i think they KNOW it is unhealthy. i dont think it is a choice $

wise and being cheaper. i cant afford mccd, almost 7 bucks a meal now a days. tuna casserole for four and left over under 5 bucks. one of the reasons, besides health we dont hit fast food is cost.

i guess this is the battle between authoritarian and libertarian, and admittedly i am libertarian, as it sounds you are authoritarian.

[nadinbrzezinski]

163. I am confused, but what is authoritarian about PSAs and educating people?

And yes, it is a choice for money...

The dollar menu is what some folks can afford, that's it

And yes, some folks believe it is healthy. I know that last one is incredible to most, and for the record you CAN have some fast food, like in a blue moon

Nowhere have I said, the government has to close Mickey Ds... hell, when they were forced to change their oil some years back, the taste of the fries changed.

But are you trheatened by PUBLIC education campaigns and changing what will be covered by Food Stamps?

WOW

[seabeyond]

167. wow back at you. this post started with blaming restaurants for obesity

i disagreed with you that it is the restaurants "fault" that people over eat.

that is simple enough. talking personal responsibility and those that tell us how we are suppose to live, hence you lib and auth. as far as spending public money to combat this ignorance, .... haven't even gotten there in conversation. but yea that you can ask and answer. nifty. cuts out all communication and can result in the manner you want

spend money. i dont give it a shit. i think you are wrong. i think people are well aware what it takes to be healthy and what is unhealthy and know mccd at excess, not moderation is unhealthy. you think not. so.... we dont agree

but.... you change up what the argument is and then flip out over shit....

not that big a deal to me.

personal responsibility is a big deal to me. and other threads about the continuing of rapes and degradation of female young and old.... more an issue for me

[nadinbrzezinski]

170. They are partly responsible too

but I am looking at this as a POLICY ISSUE

And as a POLICY ISSUE you do that

have a good day

And nowhere in my post, original or otherwise I have argued for restaurants changing their ways.

That will come... on its own

I suggested PSAs...

[Two Americas]

173. we are all responsible

We are all responsible for the safety and nutritional value of our food, and for supporting progressive public agricultural policies, including those who own restaurants. We are all also responsible to each other.

No one of us as an individual is "in control" of food, including those with the time and resources to imagine that they are making "better choices" than their neighbors. Agriculture is a public resource that needs to be managed as a public resource.

[seabeyond]

174. how does quality and safety of food translate to restaurant responsible for our fat?

yes, ... i am all for measures to be made to go after fda on their job to nsure the safety of our food and supply. has nothing to do with what i was origannly addressing

[Two Americas]

177. good question

It is not a matter of blame. I am not blaming restaurant owners, and we shouldn't blame the people nor the farmers. I am saying that we are all responsible, not arguing about whom we should blame. No one group, let alone single individuals, can solve these problems. It is a political issue, and farmers and restaurant owners and consumers can't solve the problems alone.

By the way, the FDA has been totally corrupted by corporate agri-business but more importantly the pharmaceutical industry. I think that as Democrats we need to be cautious in our criticism of the agency. It is the top level management - political appointees pulled from industry by the Bush adminstration with an agenda that is not in the public interest that is causing the problems. It is a political problem. Much of the anti-FDA rhetoric is coming from libertarian and right wing think tanks. The right woinbgers are playing both sides of this - they put ringers in charge of the agencies, and then when the public objects to what they do, the right wingers come back with "see? Government doesn't work! We need to dismantle it!"

[BoneDaddy]

85. How about individuals take responsibility for how much

they stuff their faces? My family and I go out to eat, we eat till we are pleasantly full and get the rest taken home for a second or third meal. The primary onus is on the individual. Sure restaurants have minor culpability, but WE decide how much we eat.

[marmar]

87. In Paris, where they eat plenty of fattening foods, people are much thinner....

.... I think partly because they live less sedentary, driving-oriented lifestyles, but also because the portions are much more sensible. And I never left a cafe or bistro feeling hungry. The meals are multi-course, but the portions are sensible.

[shrike]

92. Yep, different lifestyle

We Americans sit in our cars for a two-hour commute, sit at our desks, then come home and sit on the couch. And eat big meals. And wonder why we're heavy.

When I was in Europe I remember being struck by the numbers of people I saw out walking. And riding bikes. Granted, there was plenty of traffic, but automobile use didn't seem to overwhelm other forms of transportation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

114. Urban design also helps in this

take into account that American cities do not really encourage you to jump on your bike and go to the store

When I was growing up in Mexico City, I could and did do that regularly...

(I wouldn't today but that is for other reasons)

And no, the city is not bike friendly, but WALKING to that same corner store is not only doable but I have done it

Now in San Diego, walking to the corner store is not possible due to the DISTANCE

[Withywindle]

179. I credit that factor (and genetics) as the main reason I'm thin.

I live in Chicago. Haven't owned a car--or felt a real desire to--for 16 years. I live pretty much like my grandmother did when she was my age, in a row house in Baltimore in the 40s and 50s. I do all my grocery shopping on foot and by public transportation--so I don't buy huge portions of anything--I can't! Got nowhere to store it in my little apartment anyway. I go to small local stores as much as I can.

Hell, I live in a 3rd floor apartment --no, no bloody elevators!--and I go in and out a lot most days, and that's problably more exercise than a lot of people get right there. I walk a LOT every day just going where I need to go.

It's partly genetics--my parents are thin too--that make my BMI 18; I sure as hell don't think it's my diet. I've never bought lo-fat anything in my life and I never met a slab of cheese, strip of bacon, or blob of sour cream I didn't like. :D

[krabigirl]

206. Exactly...it's nothing to do with the food. It's a walkalble city, and there's lots of public transp

The lifestyle here is what's killing us, IMO. Many people here don't even leave their desks for lunch, because it's frowned upon. So, we have people sitting all dang day, and then into their cars for a long commute home. I think this is more the reason for the epidemic than the food portions. I for one never come close to finishing my plate at a restaurant...ok, except when I was pregnant and famished all of the time!

Also, in many restaurants in France and Italy, there's a lot of food if you choose to order this way...it just comes in different courses.

[BoneDaddy]

88. Liberals ignore the individual and Conservatives ignore the environment

This is what I find soooo amazing about DU. Liberals totally ignore the individuals primary responsibility for taking ownership over their own lives.

Conservatives, on the other hand, do the exact opposite and ignore the entirity of social, class, and other environmental issues that affect choice.

[nadinbrzezinski]

121. Individuals are responsible, but also we have

national food policy, and lack of education in certain respects

I love this libertarian creep all over the place

I WISH things were as simple as telling obese people (yes it is a complex disease) to just stop eating

[BoneDaddy]

131. Wow you are sad

very sad. Ultimately it is that simple and ultimately that is what occurs when people do address their problems.

[nadinbrzezinski]

137. Really? Do you want me to direct you to all the studies in genetics?

Sad is that people actually believe it is that simple.

Perhaps we should also stop worrying at a national level about disaster response and education

I mean you can take care of yourself, and by golly YOU CAN educate yourself

[BoneDaddy]

195. What are you babbling about?

Overwhelmingly, with the exception of a small percentage, obesity is not genetic malfunctioning, but the FACT that obese people EAT incredibly more calories than they can burn. If you want to point to compulsive eating and other eating disorders, sure I get it, but ultimately it comes down to the individual making a choice to change their behavior.

You know very little about the recovery process and what needs to occur in order for someone to address situations such as this. You want to put the blame and onus entirely on external forces. Let me tell you a fact. The entirity of the outside system can be in place and support an individual's recovery process but if you do not have the individual taking accountability it will simply not work. I see it all the time. Support, resources, education, a multitude of services available and the person does not change behavior because they are not willing to change.

Stop with the perpetuation of the vast "societal boogiemen" who are to blame for individuals failures.. People are, first and foremost, accountable to themselves and any change needs to start and end there.

[Two Americas]

198. I see what you are saying

"Support, resources, education, a multitude of services available and the person does not change behavior because they are not willing to change."

It does seem that way, doesn't it? There certainly is something happening that can be described the way you are describing it. The assumptions in your argument are first that everything is available to people that they need to overcome their problems, and still they do not. Therefore, they must not want to change, so the flaw must be in the individual. They seem to be blaming others, and so we conclude that they lack a sense of personal responsibility and are trying to foist off their problems onto others rather than taking care of themselves.

But is that true? I think that the reason people do not use the resources that we imagine are available to them is because there is something else wrong that is not being heard or addressed. I also think that this is much more widespread than we imagine it to be.

I think there is something wrong with our model for "success" more so than there is something wrong with those who don't succeed. By "success" I mean overcome problems. Just because people are rejecting the resources available, and rejecting the model for success that is implicit in the way that resources are offered and how they are to be applied and to what end, does not mean that they are not willing to change. It is more a matter of not being willing to change in a certain direction, a direction that does not resolve the real problems and may make those worse.

[BoneDaddy]

205. It seems like

you keep looking for a reason to not put appropriate accountability upon an individual for their own life. I do not really have an opinion about whatever their motivation or lack of motivation may be. What I typically react to is the incessant idea that the answer to the problem exists outside of the individual and can be accomplished without the individual taking charge of their own lives. After working with people in this capacity for over twenty years that is the ONLY way people change behavior. Whether it is a battered woman, an obese person, an alcholic, etc.., ultimately the individual has to start making and owning their choices. Of course there are societal components to this and we certainly need to look at them (food policy, portion size, nutrition) but the only real thing we have control over is what we as individuals CHOOSE to do, regardless of what is happening outside of us. Learned helplessness, victimization and blaming society will serve no real purpose in changing behavior.

[Two Americas]

208. yes I do

As a traditional Democrat, I always want to look first at the social conditions as the root cause for the struggles that people are experiencing. I am not disagreeing with you that people act as though they were powerless and helpless and are confused as to the causes of their malaise and suffering, and seem discouraged and unmotivated. I am disagreeing with you about the remedy for that. Improve social conditions, through political action, and you will see millions of people suddenly as if by magic take more "personal responsibility" and be more accountable. Harangue people about taking "personal responsibility" and you will see the opposite effect.

The truth about the modern economy and society in which we are forced to live is that the broader the responsibility people take, the more accountable and responsible they are to others the more they are punished and persecuted and marginalized. The more self-centered and greedy they are, and the less responsibility and accountability they have toward others, the more they are rewarded and praised and admired. Since most of us are more motivated to contribute, to do things for others, to pursue goals that are larger than merely feathering our own nest, to be part of something bigger and more important than ourselves, many of us are not thriving in this individualistic and self-centered culture.

[flvegan]

93. Americans are largely nutritionally uneducated.

And food is primarily a pleasure source rather than what it should be: fuel.

[AlCzervik]

98. Ding, Ding, Ding! Eat to live not live to eat.

[krabigirl]

207. Yeah, well food is certainly a pleasure source in places like France and Italy as well...

[kineneb]

100. so grandma said: eat less and exercise more

and she was right.

I cannot eat a whole portion in most restaurants, which is fine. It means I get two meals from one, and don't have to think about cooking- which for right now, is fine.

My mind and body need to heal.

[marshall]

105. Solution: order one meal and split it with your husband

I frequently order from the child menu when I eat out (which is quite rare). If I eat at McDonald's I don't get the Big Mac meal, I get the All American meal which is a small hamburger, small fries, and small drink.
One can eat responsibly in today's marketplace, it just takes planning.

[BlooInBloo]

116. I've never understood why obeisity isn't caused, by and large, by people eating more..

... than their own bodies (different for different people) burn.

(Goes and looks for some corned beef hash)

[Initech]

118. Burger King certainly isn't doing their part.

Quadruple bacon cheeseburgers, breakfasts covered in cheese sauce, double deep-fried chicken sandwiches... you name it! :puke:

[gatorboy]

120. Don't forget about the sodium! They're literally killing us with the salt in-take.

[Javaman]

122. As food and oil continue to go up in price the portion sizes will decrease.

I call it the forced american diet.

[nadinbrzezinski]

124. Not at major chains

but small family owned restaurants will first go belly up

[Javaman]

132. True. It scares me then what is in the food at the major chains...

:scared:

[Irishonly]

128. A Local Italian Restaurant

Has a spaghetti take out dinner for two. We feed three people at least two meals from it. Another breakfast place has four egg omelets. We split the breakfast.

[JerseygirlCT]

141. One of our places (Italian) serves monster portions, too.

We all order, knowing that's leftovers for another two meals at home!

Once I did eat an entire entree, though. I was pg, and boy did my appetite surprise me and everyone else at the table that time!

[nadinbrzezinski]

144. When we go to the local one we share as well

[JerseygirlCT]

168. That would mean we'd have to agree on the entree, lol

So we cart it home for another couple of meals!

[Withywindle]

176. I do that too!

There are three or four great (and reasonably-priced) Italian restaurants within a few blocks of my apt. Not chains either, dammit!

When I can afford it, I don't feel bad at all about ordering a $14 entree, because that's going to be TWO full meals paid for--not a bad investment. And I think some cuisines are better the second day - give the juices time to marinate. :)

[JerseygirlCT]

180. Chains...

I'm growing so tired of them all.

[Irishonly]

202. Grin

Well, you were eating for two. We don't eat out often but when we do we always bring home a dogie bag. I usually will get two meals out of what I ordered. We are taking my daughter and her boyfriend to our favorite restaurant this weekend for lobster. Her boyfriend turned 18 two weeks ago and she will be 18 in about two weeks. Their portions are ridiculously huge. They serve so much that in all honesty, they could put all of the tails on one plate because there is enough to feed a small army. There are people that eat it all and I am always amazed.

[JerseygirlCT]

203. The places that always got me were the "smorgasbord" places

in Lancaster Cty, PA. Oh my goodness, did people there pack it in! I couldn't even imagine eating that much food over the course of several days!

I can't claim to be so virtuous - put ice cream in front of me, and it doesn't matter, I'll eat it. But usually I'm saved by a moderate appetite, and the ability to stop when I'm full. No champion eater, I.

[MadHound]

148. Restaraunts have always offered large portions, though they have indeed grown larger over the years

It is all part of trying to sell product, and sadly most Americans have come to expect it. PSAs and such might be a good idea, but the real education should begin at home. Teach your children, teach your family what a normal portion is, what healthy eating is, and most importantly when to put your fork down and say enough.

[nadinbrzezinski]

149. That is the way I see PSAs just as part of the equation

not the whole solution

[Xenocrates]

150. Its our own fault

Restaurants are after the almighty $$$, and will do as the customer demands. If the majority of your customers want bigger portions, you have little choice but to answer them with bigger portions, or risk losing them to your competitor.

Yes, I remember those days before supersize. When a buffet was one-time thru the line, instead of all you can stuff in your face. Consumers demanded more, and they got what they asked for. It will ultimately be the consumer, not the gov't, that will change this lifestyle.

[nadinbrzezinski]

159. In my view it will have to be a combo

consumers will have to be educated... and then they will be able to make those choices... after their choices are gone.

They will be educated after a tipping point of the population is diagnosed with Diabetes and cannot continue this lifestyle and will demand the change

Or we can try to educate them before we reach that point, and as a society pay the cost of long term diabetes care, for example.

But as a society I do see a role of government in this... after all OUR food policy (check what is allowed for you to buy with food stamps or WIC and what is not), is also partly responsible for this

I do wish it was as simple as just people saying enough... I pointed to IHOP as an example... but this is just PART of the problem, not the whole problem, but part of it

[medeak]

164. IHOP has weight watcher menu on back page

check it out next time!

[nadinbrzezinski]

165. Thanks, will check it next time we go... in six months

[NashVegas]

169. I See It More In Mid-priced, Low End Places

Like where you'd get lunch in the business district.

Look at the difference in how salad is treated on menus. It used to be that a salad came with your entrée automatically. Now in most places, they're ordered separately or are a meal in themselves.

Appetizers have gotten MUCH larger. Again, they could be a meal in themselves.

Some of it is because people are less inclined to accept what a menu offers for a balanced meal. 'I'd like the arugula salad, but I want it with the salmon, not the steak. I'd like green beans, but with the chicken parm, not the al fredo ....'

NYT had an article on the phenomena not too long ago.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

171. Can you find the article, Crisco?

I'd like to read it.

[NashVegas]

175. You OWE Me

I just spent 10 minutes hunting:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/05/dining/05entr.html

http://dinersjournal.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/05/in-defense-of-the-entree/

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

209. Thank you Crisco.

Mark to read in the morn.
Have a great weekend!

[Rabrrrrrr]

178. Oh, fer fuck's sake. It is NOT the fault of restaurants. It is the fault of lack of self-control.

Blaming the restaurants solves nothing. Especially since it's not their fault.

If you want things to change, you need to change people's attitudes, and offer them some lessons on self-control.

Restaurant gives you a huge portion? Then eat what you only need, and take the rest home. Make two or three meals out of it.

Jesus.

[Two Americas]

186. these questions are covered upthread

Ths discussion is not about blaming anyone, and the "personal choices" concept is not helpful.

[treestar]

188. One goes to a restaurant for one meal

And for the convenience.

But I agree, don't patronize those restaurants. Go to those with reasonable portions.

Portion size is important, and in this country, weight is important. Restaurants trying to go against that should be marketed out.

[ruiner4u]

181. maybe people should restrain themselves????

when does personal responsibility and moderation make a comeback?

[Fireweed247]

182. In Europe they advertise meals for tourists: "American sized portions"

Even in Italy, we searched all over for giant plates of pasta like we expected, but the Italians don't pig out like that, much to our backpacking(and looking for cheap food) dismay.

[K8-EEE]

183. I found that true in Spain as well

The "platter-sized" portion we see in chain restaurants here would be passed around a table of four people there!

[El Pinko]

184. I do think you're right that restaurants do share SOME of the blame.

Some of the foods I see in restaurants are appalling in volume and poor nutritional content. ("Bloomin' Onion").

But some of the problem comes from how we were raised. I was raised in the 70s and 80s by a mom that hated to cook (and later had no time to because she was always working) and quickly leaned on mass-produced food products rather than actual whole foods to feed her family. So a huge percentage of the meals I ate growing up came from a can or were frozen microwaved dinners, or maybe a "Helper" of some kind. I never ate a salad growing up, and although those foods are quite tasty, with all their artificial flavors, texturizers and massive amounts of sodium, they are totally nutrient-depleted. They're also addictive. The body senses this nutrient deficiency and prods you to eat more and more to get the nutrients you need, so that you end up eating a lot more calories than your body can burn just to get a decent amount of nutrients.

It wasn't until I was well into my 20s that I learned about proper nutrition and started making veggies and smaller portions lean meats , and smaller portions in general, the staple of my diet, and I lost about 100 lbs by doing so and have kept it off. I'm quite sure that if I went back to eating corporate mass-produced food products instead of making my own food, I'd be constantly hungry and gain weight again.

[BigDaddy44]

191. So what?

They're putting it in front of you. Are they shoving it down your throat too?

People aren't overweight because restaurants serve them too much. They're overweight because they eat too much. The only one who controls the fork is you.

[El Pinko]

197. Nobody likes to be overweight/obese.

If it was as easy as that, then nobody would be.


Eating is a primal instinct. Combined with childhood conditioning that often sets up food as comfort/reward/entertainment, it can be almost impossible to put down the fork for some people once they reach adulthood.

There is an element of personal choice involved. It was no small feat to change my eating habits and get down to a healthy weight, and I cannot go a single day without keeping track of what I eat, because I know that the day I stop doing that I'll be on the way to gaining again. It requires constant vigilance just to maintain what others take for granted - they can eat their meals without measuring or counting or calculating their balance of proteins/fats/carbs and overall calories. I will never be able to do that. And I've got fat people that LOOOOVE to remind me that 95% of people who lose over 30% of their body weight gain it all back within 5 years.

All I'm saying is - don't judge others until you've walked in their shoes. Demonizing fat people for their gluttony is NOT going to do anything to stop the problem of obesity.

Getting the word out about the factors that contribute to it and the kinds of dietary changes that will help, but not leave the person perpetually famished will.


A LOT of us were raised to "clean our plate". Is it any wonder that so many are getting fat from cleaning those enormous plates they serve at Chili's and Applebee's?

I can tell you that in my case, I never felt "full" until I ate a lot more than I needed to. Now I'm at a healthy weight, but I still can't go back to eating like a regular person. I measure and count and my meals almost always leave me feeling only about 75% full - NEVER quite satisfied, but at least I eat enough to keep real hunger away. If I ate until I was satisfied, I'd be back over 200 lbs in no time.

[CTyankee]

201. Weight loss was always difficult for me. Then a freak thing happened.

I developed a complication from elective surgery (for diverticulitis). Scar tissue formed, blocking my large intestine. I had surgery to remove it and then more surgery w/in days to clear up infection.

Bottom line: I lost a good deal of my "digestive material" in my small intestine. I don't metabolize calories as well as before, resulting in weight loss. Be careful what you wish for!

Now I eat food that is as nutritionally dense as I can get to get enough basic nutrients, but I don't gain weight. It's great and I have no discomfort or problems now that my gut has healed. But I still don't overeat (even tho at times I get very hungry). Training yourself not to overeat is a GOOD thing!

[El Pinko]

204. I totally agree with that.

But the people who claim "all you have to do is..." and who blame/demonize fat people, who are stuggling with any number of problems with food - it's just not constructive.

I don't have scar tissue or a band around my stomach, and I sure as hell don't have time to work out as much as I'd like, so it'll never be "easy" for me to maintain this.

It's easier than reagaining and then having to lose it again, but it requires eternal vigilance - basically "being on a diet" for life.

[Fireweed247]

199. This sums up the real problem perfectly!

"The body senses this nutrient deficiency and prods you to eat more and more to get the nutrients you need, so that you end up eating a lot more calories than your body can burn just to get a decent amount of nutrients."

Our food supply is so poor in this country, white flour/white sugar in everything, depleted soils etc.
I think this explains why the rate of obesity keeps growing and increasing in Children especially.