As a Woman Raised in the Mormon Church...

[QueenOfCalifornia]

I defy anyone to tell me that the mainstream church - the one based in Salt Lake City, does NOT condone plural marriages. They do. I have proof and I dare anyone here to tell me I am hallucinating.

:popcorn:

[Hamlette]

1. in this life

but there are/will be plural wives in the afterlife.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

4. Exactly.

(you meant to write Not in this life) And they like to couch it so it seems so NORMAL. I defy anyone to have another woman come and live with me and my husband and kids and be my "wife-sister" Give it a rest... It is perverted... I can go on and on.

[Hamlette]

48. My husband and I have always wanted another wife

Since I've always worked full time, and hate to cook and clean, my husband and I joke that all we need is a wife! You know, someone at home cooking, cleaning, running errands, etc. while I work.

Of course we also joke that we need a husband too as my dear husband should never be let near tools of any kind. Someone to fix the sprinklers, mow the lawn, fix the leaky fawcet.

[MercutioATC]

2. One thing I will say about the Mormons...

...they have a kick-ass preparedness plan. If the shit really does hit the fan, Mormons definitely have it covered.

[dkf]

5. Yeah those women were scarily on message.

[Breeze54]

6. I had one married friend I'd babysit for and after awhile

I was babysitting all the time and her husband started talking 'that' talk and I decided not to
hang with them anymore. He actually sought me out about 'living with them' on a permanent basis. :eyes:

No sister-wife for me either! :P No way in hell!

[QueenOfCalifornia]

9. I grew up with the end of the world shit

being drilled into my head...

We had water for a year, we had dried meat and fucking tuna for a year... We had clothes and the whole 9 yards -- we were told as girls we should forget an education.. it's a waste on girls.. and we should get married and have BABIES. Lots and lots of babies because they are on the other side of "the veil" waiting to join your family... It is your duty as a good Mormon to shepherd those souls here, onto this plain.

I figured out that the misogynist bastards were PERVERTS.... I ran like hell and I never looked back....

[Quantess]

16. Okay.... I have heard that

if a woman has 12 children or more, she is a *really* *stellar* Mormon woman.

There was a woman in my suburban community who had 11 children, and she nearly died having #12. I can't remember if she reached the jackpot 12th baby, or not. This all went down in the late 1980s, and I was in high school at the time.

And, I heard that masturbation is so sinful to mormons, that teenagers are advised to tie the favored hand to a bedpost, or at least, tied far enough away from temptation. But definitely the hand is tied up, if you can't resist touching yourself.

And, according to my friend, virgins are "nice, clean flowers that boys will want to pick", and that boys will be disgusted by "dusty flowers", AKA non-virgins.

[yorgatron]

19. And, according to my friend, virgins are "nice, clean flowers that boys will want to pick", and that

Dusty Flowers would be a great name for a country singer :P

[Quantess]

21. Okay, it all sounds funny, and yes, Dusty Flowers would be an awesome country singer

But, I'm wondering if there is any truth to these rumors.

[Bigmack]

49. I always sought out...

the "dusty flowers" in my youth.

More fun and no hysterics.

[eShirl]

23. another thing about Mormons

from what I hear, they gsther and preserve great amounts of genealogical data (and not just their own)

[Ayesha]

25. That is because

They baptize dead people! Also, they wear holy underwear. Not holey, HOLY.

Not and have never been a Mormon, but I find them bizarrely fascinating.

[Breeze54]

3. I have no doubt.

I lived near Salt Lake City and in Nevada and met many Mormons and know a few here in MA but
the women I met out west talked about that and how they were 'groomed' for marriage, from an
early age, all the time. These were women that had left the church and they were wild! :P

[medeak]

18. good grief...

don't tell me we're from the same small town?

[Breeze54]

29. I lived in Nevada for awhile... but

I'm from MA and I moved out to Nevada with a friend from SLC, Utah and I landed
near Boulder City, after awhile. She took off with her boyfriend. She was quite
the wild child! Are you from Boulder City or Henderson? I'm back in MA now.

[medeak]

46. spent entire life in NV

have lived everywhere in state.. was a tot in Henderson when the stinky polluting plant was the only thing there. Boulder City is nice as nothing has changed in 50 yrs. Such a respite from slot machines

[Quantess]

7. I went to school with many mainstream Mormons in Junior High & High School in Oregon.

One of my closest friends was from a mainstream Mormon family, and she told me---in her words, after she stopped going---about some of the ridiculous crap that was preached at church. Her sister ended up attending Brigham Young University.
But my friend was EXTREMELY rebellious, and a very disturbed teen. We remained friends for a few years after high school, but then she went on a downward spiral.

Anyway, are you talking about the mormons specifically in Utah, or the more widely distributed ones as well?

[QueenOfCalifornia]

10. I am talking about

All Mormons. They take their marching orders from SLC (Salt Lake City)

[Quantess]

24. I am wondering about the financial apron strings of mormons

Thank you, Gilligan, for being so candid about your mormon background.

Anyway, it's common knowledge that mormons are demanded to give a certain portion of their income to the Mormon Church. (Whether it's 10% or 15% ?) I've heard different estimates on "the take".

Poverty stricken mormons (with babies, especially) are given a lot of material and financial support, which I think is a really nice thing to do for new parents. New parents need it!

But I wonder where the rest of the money goes? Of course it's none of my business.

[marshall]

32. When you step back from it, all Chrisian teaching is crazy

Virgin birth, burning bush, God writing on rocks with his finger, a talking snake, flying chariots. It's all pretty incredible.

[malaise]

34. What's incredible is how many people

believe all the crap.

[ensho]

45. true - amazing what people will believe

nt

[lukasahero]

35. Love thy neighbor, judge not lest ye be judged, blessed are the peacemakers

Yeah, that's some crazy shit there.

Sorry, I'd be the last person to say that religion, and the Christian religion in particular, has been a wonderful thing but there's a difference between religion and "Christian teaching". There's a lot we could still stand to learn from what Jesus of Nazareth taught.

[stevedeshazer]

8. My Mormon ex-wife believed in multiple extramarital affairs

Does that count?

[QueenOfCalifornia]

11. That Sir....

Is more of a personal problem...

Sorry :hi:

[fasttense]

41. Sounds like she turned the table on this polygamy/harem crap

and preferred Polyandry.

[Fredda Weinberg]

12. Your anger is obvious, but doesn't help anyone and only hurts you

I left a culture I found offensive, but can't look down on those who choose, for whatever reason, to remain. It's not just indoctrination.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

13. I am not at all angry

I left the church so long ago it is crazy. I am 51 - I left the church when I was 17.

It isn't hurting me. It is hurting a lot of other people though. People who are too young to advocate for themselves.

The church is INDOCTRINATION. When you specifically take a young mind and shape it to accept something so insane and crazy - it is exactly what indoctrination is by definition.

[Fredda Weinberg]

28. I remember when I was "too young". I didn't suffer because it was all

I knew. Had you confronted me then ... I would have reacted defensively.

So I approach my former classmates w/some measure of respect; in other words, not to call their daily existence insane. I'm the one who's changed ... they're continuing a tradition that's produced generations.

You may not call it anger, but that's how it sounds to someone who appreciates your struggle for liberation. I wish we could celebrate together.

[screembloodymurder]

33. You are so off base.

It's a cult.

[jazzjunkysue]

43. So, why do they hang dead guys on crosses on all the school walls?

To give them a really warm, accepted feeling?

The whole symbolism is shame, punishment, revenge, violence, it's horrifying. If all that's not for indoctrination, what's the point?

[medeak]

14. went to mutual...polygamists were whispered about.

but they were there.

great book if you haven't read...(am worried about blood atonement of the 16 yr old)

http://books.google.com/books?id=xDwJAAAACAAJ&dq=Jon+Krakauer&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=into+the+wild+author&btnG=Google+Search&sa=X&oi=print&ct=result&cd=1&cad=author-navigational

[QueenOfCalifornia]

15. Haven't read it

In fact I was so happy to be free from the craziness that reading about it seemed overkill.

I am still in touch with my 92 year old step mother - she is a died in the wool Mormon - I really love her for her other attributes but I avoid her out of what I feel was an unjust way to bring up a young girl. Also she talks about her church a lot and it is hard to keep the lip zipped.

:shrug:

[medeak]

17. understand

am way too close to SLC..ugh..we get SLC tv channels

the book is written by the same author who wrote "Into The Wild"..Sean Penn movie...incredible research. Turned out my employee was related to murderer..well..everyone is related right? ;-)

[JoDog]

30. I recommend

that book too. I'm also worried about the real reason why authorities may not have the original whistleblower in protective custody right now.

[spoony]

20. I don't know one way or the other but if you have something to add,

by all means share.

[Hardrada]

22. I would think one superpious wife would be plenty

let alone more! I guess Lutherans have had other things taught to them and Lutheran men have not been bribed by a lot of extra pussy to consent to such an unjust socioreligious society. In fact, a basic strain in Christianity has been marital fidelity to one spouse or else complete chastity for the reason that it is fair and just otherwise the wealthy would snag a harem and the poor man would have one or none. Not a good social system and one that was condemned by the Church for centuries.

[Quantess]

26. Hi, your post seems funny. I don't really understand.

I have a Lutheran background, although I went to church about a total of 10 times in my entire life. My parents are both Scandinavian immigrants, and they said we're supposed to be Lutheran.

I'm not interested in pussy.

[Hardrada]

47. Some religions are more patriarchal than others

and the ones which have male hierarchies are more controlling of women to the extent of seeing them only for their reproductive capacities and so on.

[rucky]

27. They don't. You're hallucinating.

I actually have no idea, but you dared us to say it.

I wouldn't want you to break out the popcorn for nothing.

[screembloodymurder]

31. They also support the racist teachings of JS.

Though they deny it, they still teach that blacks are inferior.

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. Independence, MO is home of RLDS

Now called Community of Christ. So I know a bunch of them. We call them the sane Mormons here. They are really great people and do a lot for the community. And many of them think the LDS are insane.

History lesson - when the Mormons left Illinois and went west there was a split and some of them stayed here in Independence and established RLDS. (Reorganized Church of Latter Day Saints) They are not as conservative as the LDS.

For me, the underwear is enough. Too bizarre. And I was raised Catholic so funky religious clothing doesn't normally bother me. There is something about that underwear though. LOL

[Kitty Herder]

38. I don't think the RLDS believe in polygamy in the here-after, either.

They were against it from the beginning.

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. IIRC, that was what led to the split

[fishwax]

42. it was actually the succession crisis that caused the split, but polygamy did

have a little bit to do with it. The RLDS never supported polygamy, which was always a sore subject (understandably) for JS's wife Emma. When Joseph Smith, Jr. was killed in 1844, it was unclear who would replace him, with several different people laying claim to the new leadership. Many members of the Smith family (including Emma Hale, JS's wife) believed it his oldest son, Joseph Smith III, had the true claim to the leadership. They argued that JS had identified JS III as his successor, and they also argued that the church called for familial succession. Had JS lived another ten years, things might have gone much differently, but JS III was only 11 at the time, so even members who might have otherwise sympathized with him were unlikely to be comfortable with him as leader.

Other contenders for the crown emerged. The two with the strongest claims were probably Brigham Young (who was the head of the quorum of the 12, the top council) and Sidney Rigdon (who was an original member of the First Presidency, the president's personal advisory council, and the original spokesman of the church). Since both of these men had powerful claims to the leadership in their own right, many in the Smith family, along with other JS III supporters, put their weight behind a third candidate, James Strang. (Strang, incidentally, was a colorful nutjob who wound up leading hundreds of his followers to Beaver Island in Lake Michigan, where he basically declared himself King of the Mormons.)

After several months of uncertainty, Brigham Young emerged with the support of the majority of the leadership, and the succession crisis was over. There were still many, of course, who didn't accept his leadership but still considered themselves followers of JS and his church. They either remained scattered and unafilliated or started communities around other leaders (the largest, I think, was Rigdon's Church of Jesus Christ in Pennsylvania). Emma and her children stayed in Illinois, unaffiliated. Time went on, JS III went to law school, and then in 1860 there was a conference in Amboy that drew many unaffiliated or dissatisfied mormons. That's where the Reorganized church was born and JS III was named leader. (The church followed a linear succession rule from there until 1995, when they had their first leader who was not a direct descendant of JS.)

[aikoaiko]

37. I'm open to seeing your proof.

:hi:

[QueenOfCalifornia]

44. As others have inferred

Mormonism, like ALL religions I can think of, focus more on the great beyond, the hereafter, the big reward than the here and now - AKA reality.

Mormonism has a very different view of Heaven though. O8) There are 4 levels ranging from Hell which is reserved for the worst of the worst - if in Hell, one can repent and move to the Telestial level - Then there are the 3 levels of Heaven - these being (1) The Telestial (2) Terrestrial & (3) Celestial Kingdoms - The highest level is divided into 2 sections with the higher of the 2 being "exaltation" which means you become a god.

Okay - Now comes marriage. 2 kinds - (1) Regular marriage which ends at the death of a partner.
(2) Marriage in a Temple, by a person of authority, Temple marriage prepares the couple to become Gods and Goddesses of their own world (planet) A man can marry in the temple multiple times, keeping all of his wives for all time and eternity. This is belief in plural marriage.
Also, children are "sealed" to their parents and these families reunite in hereafter and then there are spirit children -

It is a giant bunch of sciFi...

Here is an excellent site: http://www.exmormon.org/ You can find all sorts of info there.

[mike_c]

40. I agree with marshal's comment up thread-- in the end...

...this is all just another manifestation of the broad mental illness syndrome called religious belief. Hearing voices that aren't there, obsessive rituals, belief in highly improbable events, rejection of logic, and so on are all hallmarks of religious belief. In a nutshell, they're not entirely sane.