Why can't we, Liberals, turn this 'elitist' stuff back on the NeoCons?

[sinkingfeeling]

"The contemporary conservative obsession with the "liberal elite" has its origin in the campaign of 1964, when Ronald Reagan crisscrossed the country in support of Barry Goldwater's presidential aspirations, accusing liberals of believing that "an intellectual elite in a far-distant capital can plan our lives for us better than we can plan them ourselves."" - from Eric Alterman's new book, Why We're Liberals: A Political Handbook for Post-Bush America (Viking).

Yet this whole concept of an 'intellectual elite' is the very basis of NeoConservatism.

"The main intellectual influence on the neoconservatives has been the philosopher Leo Strauss, who left Germany in 1938 and taught for many years at the University of Chicago. Several of the neoconservatives studied under him. Wolfowitz and Shulsky took doctorates under him.

Something of a cult developed around Strauss during his later years at Chicago, and he and some admirers figure in the Saul Bellow novel, "Ravelstein." The cult is appropriate because Strauss believed that the essential truths about human society and history should be held by an elite, and withheld from others who lack the fortitude to deal with truth. Society, Strauss thought, needs consoling lies.
. . .
He also argued that Platonic truth is too hard for people to bear, and that the classical appeal to "virtue" as the object of human endeavor is unattainable. Hence it has been necessary to tell lies to people about the nature of political reality. An elite recognizes the truth, however, and keeps it to itself. This gives it insight, and implicitly power that others do not possess. This obviously is an important element in Strauss's appeal to America's neoconservatives."

http://blog.case.edu/singham/2006/03/16/opium_of_the_people

Some of the things Strauss taught are, "those who are fit to rule are those who realize there is no morality and that there is only one natural right – the right of the superior to rule over the inferior", the need for the "noble lie", the "vulgar herd" of those governed. And, "Because mankind is intrinsically wicked, he has to be governed," he once wrote. "Such governance can only be established, however, when men are united – and they can only be united against other people." - "The Political Ideas of Leo Strauss" and "Leo Strauss and The American Right" both by Shadia Drury,

Strauss and the NeoCons believe in deceiving the 'vulgar herd' with nationalism and religion, while the 'elite' believes in neither.

[Richard Steele]

1. Because they own the media, and it parrots THEIR propaganda. nm

[rockymountaindem]

6. We could still at least bring it up in our own speeches

I don't know why we never even try that. At the very least we could go back to our party's roots and point out how many billionaire CEOs and creeps like Feith and Wolfowitz there are on the other side.

[Johonny]

8. pretty much

Seems like when we do it, it some how in the media turns into "class" warfare.

[Raksha]

24. So friggen' what? LET 'EM call it "class warfare" all they want.

Seems like when we do it, it some how in the media turns into "class" warfare.

"The right of the superior to rule over the inferior" ISN'T class warfare? It's the very essence of class warfare. So we remind them of that fact every single time they trot out the "class warfare" shtick, and pretty soon they'll stop doing it.

[mac2]

36. It's the elite taking power and money for themselves.

It IS class warfare and it ain't pretty.

[mac2]

2. I do try.

First the elite today aren't fit to rule. They are from the bottom of the barrel not the cream of the top. To have power many join the world order groups (Bilderburg Group, CFR, etc.) which gives them even more. We must declare them illegal and threaten jail time. Remove their pensions, health care, and security. Bring the truth of these organizations to light.

Go after candidates and remove media licenses (journalists and talking heads) by the FCC for belonging. They are now puppets of the elite few. Take David Rockefeller and Kissinger to court. They are not elected representatives nor do we know what they are doing in our name.

The secret organizations which rule America (and most of Europe) are not legal in this country. The Logan Act declares them illegal and dangerous since it is done behind closed doors. It is not Democratic. It doesn't work for anyone but the few who gain much in the way of power and wealth. Much like the royals we left Europe to get away from in the first place. They've always wanted back into power. They used 911 to get it.

Logan Act-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act Let's take them to court. It is not democracy which we pay for. They are traitors against the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

And as far back as the Magna Carta. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Carta

[BlooInBloo]

3. Because it's rooted in a bedrock of racism and gay-hating.

[Romulox]

34. I think it's rooted in economic anxiety, and distress over the similarity between

the Republican and Democrat's economic policy--both support deregulation, "free trade" and laissez-faire capitalism. There is simply no point of contrast between the parties atm w/r/t economics.

[mac2]

38. Everyone is left to fight over the few crumbs left from their

poor trade policies. They blame each other instead of the "one party" government.

[Fredda Weinberg]

4. Because the Democratic Party claims to represent middle class values

not belittle them privately. The GOP has no such burden: success is its own reward.

[sinkingfeeling]

9. Neoconservatism is a middle class value??

[Fredda Weinberg]

18. Neoconservatism? Are you stuck in the 70's? n/t

[sinkingfeeling]

21. NeoConservatives are currently running the USA. Including,

Cheney, Rumsfeld, Norman Podhoretz, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Scooter Libby, John Bolton, Elliot Abrams, Robert Kagan, and let's throw in William Kristol, Bill Bennett, and James Woolsey. Where have you been? Never heard of PNAC? Better do a google search on the term.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm
http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2006/08/03/mideast/
http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_news&Number=295567272

[Fredda Weinberg]

22. That's right ... one cohort, unique to their times, unless you want to

disillusion another generation. But that's what this silly season is all about ... those of us who saw the rise of neonutz are trying to prevent it - but I've got an anonymous critic trying to tell me to Google.

Dear child, my first web search engine was called Lynx and we did it from a unix shell. I was setting up Freenets then ... Google that.

[sinkingfeeling]

23. OK, I don't 'get' your arguement. What was the comment about the 1970's? The Neocon movement has

been in power for the last 7 1/2 years, and even though their wet dreams have created nothing but chaos and failure, they're still beating the drums for Act II... Iran. You seem to be saying that this 'cohort' has passed away from history and it'll all be over after the election. Am I reading that right?

[Fredda Weinberg]

26. They'll pass away ... when they pass away. This could be prevented

from happening to another generation of vulnerable youngsters, led down empty paths toward disillusioned adults.

[mac2]

28. Try then under the Logan Act.

They all belong to those secret world order groups.

[mac2]

27. We should just label them murderers, crooks, and liars. Cons.

Bring them to the Hague for what they have done to us and others.

[blm]

5. The POWERFUL elite bought control of broadcast media in the 80s and 90s.

The POWERFUL elite protect each other and have for decdaes.

Clintons are part of that powerful elite and their protection of GHWBush and his powerful cronies like Jackson Stephens, Dubai and Saudi royals throughout the 90s on IranContra and BCCI's outstanding matters, is the BIGGEST reason we have been stuck with Bush2, 9-11 and the war on terror, and this Iraq war.

[mac2]

13. They should lose their FCC licenses under the Logan Act.

The meet in secret behind closed doors deciding our future. They aren't elected Americans to do so.

[Nitrogenica]

7. Well of course we can if we make that happen.

[Aloha Spirit]

10. Very thoughtful post. I fell into the trap of thinking GWB is too dumb to be elitist...

I'll be pondering this one for a while!
Thanks

[mac2]

11. Bush is an elitist "puppet" .

The American Presidency will never be the same. Nor his country. He turned power and our wealth over the them.

[libodem]

12. Comes down to framing the debate

I sure bristle when I hear conservatives use words like 'elite' and 'entitlement' against liberals. I think those are both words that describe them. They are the rich 'upper-class' and we are the permanent underclass. What makes them mad is that we are still smarter than most of them because we are creative and able to form an original thought, once in a while. They are the no child left behind, spit back on a test, memorizers, of every verse and chapter of the Bible. That is all the 'proof' they want. I don't care how much you can memorize and spit back it doesn't equate with scientific reasoning. Ever wonder why they hate science? I know this is all over the place but there is just so much about these 'snobs' that pisses me off. It's hard to remain rational. I think it's what they count on. They lie and distort so much that it's impossible to counter. If someone could it would just be dismissed anyway.

[mac2]

14. No we have to target the leaders and take them to court

for violating our democracy under the Logan Act.

[Juche]

15. Its far bigger than strauss

If it weren't for the fact that some evangelical christians feel morally and socially superior to atheists and secularists; whites felt superior to blacks and latinos; the well off felt superior to the poor; those who have avoided serious problems in life feel superior to those caught up in crime, trajedy or illness; that heterosexuals feel superior to homosexuals; that Americans feel superior to Mexicans, Canadians, Europeans and everyone else, etc. the entire GOP coalition breaks down. The GOP coalition to a large part is just a group of citizens with a sense of superiority. The well off are aligned with social bigots and religious fundamentalists and all 3 share a sense of superiority to outsiders. Then again I feel a sense of superiority to many of them.

The base of the current GOP is elitism. If you aren't a well off, white, heterosexual american christian who has avoided alot of the pitfalls in life you don't count for much. Even the financially destitute republicans I know still feel superior to blacks, latinos, non-americans, gays or atheists.

The only good thing about it is that we are becoming a less white, racist, homophobic, xenophobic, singular religious country so the GOP base is shrinking. There are too many non-whites, non-christians, non-well off people who are open to and tolerant of gays and foreigners for this to keep up for much longer.

Its basically just framing. One of the best ways to get away with something is to accuse your opponent of doing it first. If you steal some money, accuse someone else and when you are accused in return you can just write it off as 'revenge'. It works pretty well.

Personally, I don't think being elite is a bad thing when elite = competent. Howeer when it is used the way the GOP uses it and it means that only 5% of the world has opinions that matter and the other 95% of the world aren't important then it becomes a problem.

[mac2]

29. Once they grab power others join to have the "power".

It's a big circle which as you say has to be stopped at a point in time.

The hate is caused by them to divide us. Not that problems don't need to be addressed in each case.

Sorry I'm proud of what our country accomplished prior to this gang of thugs (our founding fathers,democracy, freedom, rule of law, elections, etc.). I was proud to be an American. Don't put blame on white men, religion, sexism, or race in the past. We weren't perfect but slowly were trying to be. By example other countries wanted to be us. People wanted to come here. Democracy was a on going thing such as rights for gays, etc. This administration put us back hundreds of years.

Conservatives get so greedy they destroy everything they touch. The few can't run the world on their own. It fails.

Muslims fled here from our attack on them during Desert Storm. Daddy Bush betrayed them by not backing a rebellion. Yet our government targets them as "terrorists" and a group of people who are out to destroy our democracy and freedoms...way of life. I think this administration has done more to remove those than Bin Laden (who didn't do it).

[Aloha Spirit]

16. To the OP, I've been hearing some stories about Obama's comments doing just this...

making (R) voters realize that they need to start voting on issues, not values, because they've been screwed by our elitist "deciders".

[fascisthunter]

17. Because the Right Controls and Owns the media

:shrug:

[mac2]

30. Strange that we have corporate laws yet they aren't enforced

by states. We also have that Corporate Responsibility Act but that isn't enforced either. We are lawless.

Wouldn't you agree that we have problems because the Conservatives are lawless and liars?

[ItNerd4life]

19. Honestly, I think nobody thought of it and it's not part of strategy

If Democrats in everyone of their messages started saying it, it would start to take hold.
It's a great point!

[mac2]

32. No strategy?

I think there is a "strategy" to rob our democracy and resources for the power of the few. PNAC is very much a plan of theirs.

[NewJeffCT]

20. Because people know Republicans are already elitist

so, it's no big deal when they are. However, Democrats are supposed to be fighting for the poor, working and middle class. If they're tagged as elitist, it hurts their message a lot more.

And, I would actually say that calling liberals & Democrats "elitists" started under Eisenhower, who would play up his poor speaking skills and would portray Adlai Stevenson as an out of touch intellectual.

[Smith_3]

25. Are you kidding? I'm way too busy drinking my latte machiatto to worry about such petty things.

:silly:

[Romulox]

31. Both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton espouse "Chicago School" style economics

"Free trade", deregulation, globalism, etc. etc.

One (Clinton) is the leader of the economically conservative DLC "third way" movement. The other, (Obama) made the DLC's chief economist his head economic advisor.

So Democrats are busy trying to convince working class Americans that their version of "free trade" is more than in the interest of working people than the Republican version. How? They don't say.

[mac2]

33. I agree.

They who prospered in our democratic society betray us.

Strauss who also prospered and had a home here seemed to hate our democracy. Nazism in Germany happened because of crooks,lairs, and murderers just like today. Not any political philosophy really. Others seeing the power joined it for their own self gain.

Wolfi, Rumsfeld, Cheney, etc. also were students of Strauss.

[Romulox]

35. Worse, the same group have frequently insinuated that economic solidarity

with one's neighbors and countrymen is "xenophobia" or even "racism".

Barack Obamas "bitter" gaffe, when seen in this light, is deeply offensive to the traditional base. I'm not sure if that is not the intended result...

[mac2]

37. I'm worried that Obama's "people" want to divide us by

race and religion to distract from real issues confronting our country. If it wasn't the case, it is happening anyway.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

39. Because the mainstream Dems are afraid of being "offensive'

This week, two right-wing pundits, George F. Will and William Kristol, accused Obama of being "elitist" for his remarks about the working class.

I repeat, George F. Will, the right's Chief Pretentious Snob, now that William F. Buckley is no longer with us, and William Kristol, a second-generation right-wing pundit, calling Obama "elitist."

If the Dems had any sense, they'd put people forward saying, "George F. Will called Obama an elitist? That's a good one. Oh, George, you are hilarious. You're such a working class man of the people."