Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

I need some help with a response to weird e-mail factoids on the economy, taxes and immigration

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 07:20 PM
Original message
I need some help with a response to weird e-mail factoids on the economy, taxes and immigration
I am always taken aback by tactics such as these. My daughter was sent it by a friend. Hubby was also sent it earlier by his winger brother. It about taxes under Clinton and Bush, and how much we are spending on immigration issues as opposed to the war. We all know it's bogus information, we would just like an intelligent and factual way to respond to a few of the points. The tax issue looks like it might be the easiest. Immigration vs the war...I don't get that. Illegal immigrants do not get welfare or WIC supplements. People read this stuff and really want to believe it. So sad.

> Part 1
>
> Read the following facts of less than two years ago:
>
> 1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
> 2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
> 3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.
>
> Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:
>
> 1) Consumer confidence plummet;
> 2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3.50 a gallon;
> 3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);
> 4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate
> (stock and mutual fund losses);
> 5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;
> 6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
>
> America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!
> ~ Remember it's Congress that makes law not the President. He has to work
> with what's handed to him.
>
>
>
>
> Part 2:
>
>
>
> Taxes...Whether Democrat or a Republican you will find these statistics
> enlightening and amazing.
> www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html
> Taxes under Clinton 1999 Taxes under Bush 2008
> Single making 30K - tax $8,400 Single making 30K - tax $4,500
> Single making 50K - tax $14,000 Single making 50K - tax $12,500
> Single making 75K - tax $23,250 Single making 75K - tax $18,750
> Married making 60K - tax $16,800 Married making 60K- tax $9,000
> Married making 75K - tax $21,000 Married making 75K - tax $18,750
> Married making 125K - tax $38,750 Married making 125K - tax $31,250
> Both democratic candidates will return to the higher tax rates
> It is amazing how many people that fall into the categories above think
> Bush is screwing them and Bill Clinton was the greatest President ever. If Obama
> or Hillary are elected, they both say they will repeal the Bush tax cuts and a
> good portion of the people that fall into the categories above can't wait for it
> to happen. This is like the movie The Sting with Paul Newman; you scam somebody
> out of some money and they don't even know what happened.
>
PART 3:
>
>
> You think the war in Iraq is costing us too much? Read this:
> I hope the following 14 factual statistics are forwarded over and over again
> until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them. I
> have included the URL's for verification of all the following facts.
> 1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each
> year by state governments.
> Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77
> 2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such
> as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
> Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec..html
> 3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
> Verify at:
> http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
> 4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school
> education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!
> Verify at:
> http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html
> 5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the
> American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
> Verify at
> http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
> 6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
> Verify at:
> http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
> 7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
> Verify at:
> http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
> 8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare &
> social services by the American taxpayers.
> Verify at: http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html
> 9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the
> illegal aliens.
> Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
> 10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and
> a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular,
> their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US
> Verify at:
> http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html
> 11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that
> crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from
> Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and
> marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border.
> Verify at: Homeland Security Report:
> http://tinyurl.com/t9sht
> 12. The National Policy Institute, 'estimated that the total cost of mass
> deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average
> cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.'
> Verify at:
> http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf
> 13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their
> countries of origin.
> Verify at:
> http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
> 14. 'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes
> Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States .'
> Verify at: http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml
> The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.
>
>
> Are we open to becoming knowledgeable?
>
>
>
> If this information doesn't bother you then just delete the message. If, on
> the other hand, it does, please consider forwarding it to every legal resident
> in the country including every representative in Washington, D.C. - maybe five
> times a week for as long as it takes to restore some semblance of compassion and
> intelligence in our policies and enforcement thereof. There is not one of us
> who does not want to do the right thing of being compassionate and intelligent.
> We just need to know what it is we are genuinely capable of being and doing.
> END


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
DaveJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. As far as the tax chart goes...
Edited on Thu Apr-17-08 07:46 PM by djohnson
There are lots of ways to debunk it. One of which is common sense. (Which the Repukes reading it don't have)

Even with these 'exaggerated' (putting it mildly) figures (the post below shows they are lies), the so called decline in tax payments do not even match inflation between 1999 and 2008. Factor in inflation, and we are paying more in taxes. The Repukes reading it don't understand concepts like inflation though. Regarding the guy making $30k, he would not be paying any taxes now, after deductions, but may have payed a little then because his $30K was worth today's $60K under Clinton.

The rest is just laughable. I'll leave it to others to take the time to reply.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I found the tax chart. The email is full of crap. See my post #4. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DaveJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Yeah, I just didn't have the figures handy
Edited on Thu Apr-17-08 07:52 PM by djohnson
But it's weird how even when they lie, they can't come up with convincing numbers.

One really can't expect the repukes reading this crap to do math, or look up the real chart either.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Thank you so much. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alstephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. I received the Part 3 email.....
from my Dad! Starting with #1 of Part 3 - the link refers to ALL IMMIGRANTS, not illegal aliens. Sheesh. What a bunch of dumb asses.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. Good point. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
28. And in truth, one third of a trillion is a reasonable trade-off for the labor pool.
I mean, if you're a capitalist (and not a dirty hippy commie) you take that trade off any day.

The email's crap, of course, but even on its own terms it's stupid.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
demosincebirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. Bush is the Captain of the ship. And has been for 81/2.
The economy has been deteriorating ever since he took over. It won't start to get better until 1/20/09
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. I looked up the 1999 tax tables from the IRS website
Edited on Thu Apr-17-08 07:46 PM by thecatburgler
And the figures they're citing are wrong.

AGI Single M/Joint M/Sep HH

30,000 30,050 5,060 4,504 5,609 4,504

50,000 50,050 10,660 8,411 11,209 9,516

75,000 75,050 18,037 15,411 18,899 16,516

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/i1040tt--1999.pdf

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. thanks - I was going to jump in and note that was "adjusted income" but your link is clear
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
30. no, it seems to be Taxable Income
with an AGI of 30,000 you would still subtract a standard deduction and a personal exemption, or more if you itemize deductions. Even more so for couples and couples with children.

Using my 2001 form (before the tax cuts) I get a tax of $3,379 for an AGI of $30,000, compared to $2,793 for today. A tax cut of about $586, a little more because the standard deduction and the personal exemption went up by about $200 between 1999 and 2001.

It's odd that their numbers are total BS. Normally I would expect them to brag about the $600 and more that came from the increased child tax credit. But, as usual, they will ignore the much larger tax cuts that goto people with very high incomes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. Thank you so much. Excellent resource. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
6. in response to anything involving "illegal immigrants" - I always say ...
"Don't like illegal immigrants? Don't hire them."

Then point out that Repukes always try to say that "Conservatives" (read: Republicans) are the ones who create jobs ... so, according to their "logic", they're the only ones hiring ... and therefore, they're the only ones hiring illegals, because they want to keep costs down, and whine about how it costs too much to hire a U.S. CITIZEN ...

And don't forget, the "Japanese" car makers always put their factories in out-of-the-way areas where the unions didn't have a foothold (read: away from Democrats) ... who was responsible for making the foreign cars so available, and "blurring the line" on what was a foreign car and what was a domestic??? Conservatives don't like unions, so the "furren" cars were attractive to union-busting Repukes ...

I heard one RW argument that the price of gas was not really as bad as it seems because it's due to the US dollar being lousy against foreign currency ... so how is that due to Dems, then?

These people don't give a flying f*cking damn about reality ... they like to push buttons, and their R & D departments make great salaries finding out which buttons make Dems look bad and Rs look good ... I wonder how much the guy got for figuring out what to make the letters in "P.A.T.R.I.O.T. ACT" stand for to make it actually sound patriotic ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. Good points. You are so helpful.
I think it is hard for the average person who is busy getting through the day to come up with rebuttals to this manufactured idiocy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DaveJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. Regarding the job situation...
Maybe I'm just lucky, but I'm making over 50% more than I was in 2006. I'm also working in the field I trained for in college, something that I could not find until last year.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
9. I'd ask why people making $30 grand in 1992 are still making $30 grand
and why they would want to vote for the very people who brought us huge increases in the cost of evrything but flat wages.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DaveJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I was lucky, finished my education in 2000
Neocons make it harder to get the training needed to get a better job. Both in terms of government assistant, and in terms of the corporate culture which makes it impossible for low paid employees to find time to train while they are being exploited.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #9
25. or the fact that enough of those making $30G in 1992
are now making $25G ... with two jobs ... because their old job was outsourced ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
11. another point about the "taxes" -
all through the debates about raising the minimum wage, Rush Limbaugh was saying that nobody was working for minimum wage ... and yet, Bush made one more bracket to "lower" the taxes on ... which was less than what a person would be making if they were earning minimum wage ... so, if no-one was working for that wage, how could Bush's "tax cut" for that wage help the non-people who were not working for that wage? Maybe he wanted to lower the taxes on the illegal immigrants hired by Republicans ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
17. I'll try to keep this bumped a bit . You guys are great. Thanks!
The girl child doesn't check into DU at all, but she will be checking out the responses to this post. She is progressive, but isn't into politics. She is sciency and very busy with science stuff like her dad. For them, politics is what other people do. But their hearts are defintely in the right place. And they vote. Hi, honey. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
18. Conservatism is the incessant repetition of things that are not true.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Most definitely, current "conservatism" is all about supporting this tre faux administration.
And that is, quite truly, the definition of today's conservatism. They should be so ashamed of of their pandering. Whichever way the wind blows is the direction of their scramble.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. and donning the rosy sunglasses of retrospect to say about how things were so much better
years ago when all the accepted conservative positions were put forth by the liberals of the time ... like how the Conservatives were the ones who fought against breaking free from England in 1776 ... they'd lose their land and titles and position in society ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
20. Thank you all for your responses. The kids continually are victimized by this stuff...
they need access to the information even if they don't have the time to do the research. Thanks for the help.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
21. A drunk blaming someone else for the hangover
Just keep ordering more drinks and charge them to our children's account...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
22. A drunk blaming someone else for the hangover
Just keep ordering more drinks and charge them to our children's account...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. And so many of them keep stepping up to pay the tab.
So sad. And they think it is us. Tragic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
26. Here is all you need to know about Clinton's "tax hike."
It amounted to about a three percent increase on income over 200 grand. (you can split between single-filers and married, but that's close enough. Incomes below that weren't touched.

This supposedly ginourmous tax hike was supposed to ruin our economy, send it into a tailspin. It had quite the opposite effect.

That little bump in rates is all the Gooper scum bitched about for eight fucking years. They bitched so long and so loudly that many Americans think the tax hikes actually affected them.

They didn't.

That's all you need to know and to say.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Thank you. 3% on income over 200,000. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
27. dupe post, sorry.
Edited on Fri Apr-18-08 08:07 AM by bunkerbuster1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 23rd 2024, 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC