Praying passenger removed from flight.

[iaviate1]

NEW YORK - A passenger who left his seat to pray in the back of a plane before it took off, ignoring flight attendants' orders to return, was removed by an airport security guard, a witness and the airline said.

The Orthodox Jewish man, who wore a full beard, a black hat and a long black coat, stood near the lavatories and began saying his prayers while the United Airlines jet was being boarded at John F. Kennedy International Airport on Wednesday night, fellow passenger Ori Brafman said.

When flight attendants urged the man, who was carrying a religious book, to take his seat, he ignored them, Brafman said. Two friends, who were seated, tried to tell the attendants that the man couldn't stop until his prayers were over in about 2 minutes, he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080418/ap_on_re_us/praying_passenger

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What an arrogant man... to think that he can just get up and disrupt everybody else's travel plans! Grrr.

[keep_it_real]

1. Nothing wrong with letting the man pray for a few minutes

But then some people do their jobs like unthinking robots or Hitler solders.

[iaviate1]

3. So it's okay to violate federal law and safety regs...

so long as you call it prayer? If he HAD to pray at that time, he should have taken a later flight. People have INTERNATIONAL connections out of SFO and expect to make them. I suspect you'd feel different if you were trying to catch the last flight of the day to Asia and some nut-job left his seat to pray.

[Warpy]

2. He was in the back of the plane and out of the way

They should have left him alone until he was done.

I don't know why he couldn't do it without making a spectacle of himself, but the flight attendants and security just made it all worse.

[iaviate1]

4. The plane cannot take off unless you are in your seat!

Would it be okay for me to get in the left lane on a major interstate, stop, and pray? That's insane.

[Warpy]

17. From the article, I gathered the plane was still being seated

If the seat belt light was on and the final checks were being made after the doors were sealed, then yes, they needed to get him off the plane.

Note that I have little sympathy for people who feel compelled to be so conspicuously pious. I just think that if the plane had still been full of people putting their junk into the overheads, they might have waited.

If not, then bounce his ass.

[Rosemary2205]

5. That article says the plane was still boarding.

Even after everyone is inside the cabin of the aircraft it takes a hell of a lot longer than 2 minutes to pull away from the gate.

No one would have been in the least inconvenience to let the man finish.

[iaviate1]

6. You cannot leave the gate without everybody seated.

If that departure time was inconvenient, airlines are happy to re-accommodate on different flights. Why is it okay for religious people to let their beliefs directly inconvenience other people?

[Rosemary2205]

8. NO ONE WOULD HAVE BEEN INCONVENIENCED!

What part of that confused you?

[iaviate1]

11. You must never fly...

delays lead to mis-connects and I don't know anybody who doesn't mind missing their flight.

[Rosemary2205]

14. The man in no way was delaying the flight.

Even after he would have finished his prayers they would still be waiting for others to finish boarding the plane and taking a seat. There are other reasons to ask the man to go sit down, but holding up the flight is not one of them.

[iaviate1]

15. When somebody disrupts operations.... it tends to delay flights.

Refuse to take your seat... delay. Refuse to get out of somebody else's seat because you feel entitled to an upgrade... delay. Refuse to check your bags when there is no more room... delay. All very good ways to be removed from a flight - and it happens daily. This is just news because some religious guy was involved.

[Rosemary2205]

18. Glad you backed off your initial statement.

You are correct. The delay was only because the flight attendants refused to allow him to stand there for 2 minutes before obeying the order. The delay was caused by the aftermath of that action, not the 2 minutes of praying.

I am glad you realized the ruccus over it caused the delay. If the flight crew had simply kept an eye on him to make sure he didn't plant a bomb while he was praying and THEN got him to his seat, no one would have delayed at all.

[iaviate1]

19. Actually...

You don't get it. Any highly unusual behavior combined with a refusal to cooperate aboard an aircraft IS CAUSE for delay. People like this must be pulled for further evaluation... are they drunk? high? pissed off and wanting to cause disruption? It's irresponsible to ignore such an issue and allow ONE person to so rudely disrupt everybody else and the LAST thing any airline wants is a disruption in flight that causes a diversion.

This guy obviously didn't give a shit about regulations or others, so the proper thing was done. When the airline pulled him (and undoubtedly sent the trip out as soon as he was off), they then had more time to observe for possible intoxication (as required by law), medical issues, etc. When people refuse to acknowledge and display such behavior, the first thing an airline will suspect is a medical issue. Medications and diabetic shock are known to hinder speech and cause uncooperative and unusual behavior from perfectly normal people. There is NO reason he couldn't pray in his seat or gate area. Airports are very diverse and people are certainly welcome to worship as they please so long as they are considerate of the rights of others. This guy crossed the line.

[uppityperson]

23. "People like this must be pulled for further evaluation"? wtf?

Even though his friends told the flight attendant what was going on, you still think this was a huge diversion by a possibly drunk person. Shaking my head at you, but done with you.

[iaviate1]

25. The gentleman was being disruptive...

And it is unacceptable for any religion to interfere with the aircraft operations. Got a problem with aviation regs? Drive or take a train. Need to stand to pray right at that time? Take a different flight.

[Tesha]

9. Their invisible friends make rules that are tough to follow. (NT)

[DrCory]

26. LOL!

:rofl: It's hard out there for a person of faith!

Thanks for the chukle this early morn.

[gollygee]

7. He should have gone back to his seat when asked, but it must have taken more than two minutes

to get security there and get him kicked off. It would have been less of a disruption to just wait two minutes.

[iaviate1]

10. It was bad behavior on his part.

Airlines cannot afford to mis-connect passengers because somebody isn't ready to fly yet. I am sure there were other flights to SFO if that time was bad.

[we can do it]

12. Why Couldn't He Just Pray In His Own Damn Seat, I'm Sick To Death

of all the inconsiderate religiosity.

[MrSlayer]

13. Why not pray in your seat?

Why did he have to be disruptive? This was purposefully done as was the nonsense with the Muslims last year.

[Bluebear]

16. More discussion here >>>

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3171891

[begin_within]

20. The passenger is clearly at fault. He could have said his prayers at another time.

Bravo to the airline for giving him the boot. It's called SOCIALIZATION.

[iaviate1]

21. People get booted for much less...

Walk up late with a McDonald's bag, you're going on standby for the next flight. Purposely walk slowly down the jet-bridge just to be a pain in the ass when it's almost time to go, you'll be yanked. Feel you deserve and upgrade and steal somebody else's seat? Buh bye. Don't speak English, have a physical disability, or are under 13 and INSIST you purchased a seat in the exit row? CYA! At $80+ each minute into a delay, airlines can't afford these childish games and are much better off giving somebody time to think twice about trying to disrupt other people's travel plans or jobs. These people are invariably the ones who paid $200 for a round-trip ticket, demanded things reserved for premium customers, and hassle everybody around them. Give an airline good reason to think you're uncooperative and it's almost guaranteed you'll be booted. It happens hundreds of times a day, but this just got attention since this guy said he was praying and somebody involved had a media connection.

[begin_within]

22. Good ol' Pacific Southwest Airlines used to announce,

"If you are caught smoking in the lavatory at any time during the flight, you will be asked to leave the plane immediately."

[spoony]

24. Damn, I'm pretty anti-smoking but that's rough!

:D