Just want to say this to Jimmy Carter ...

[shireen]

Dear President Carter,

Thank you. You're once again showing yourself to be a man of extraordinary insight into the human condition, as well as a diplomatically daring and courageous statesman. Whatever past Hamas has had, they are now elected representatives of the Palestineans. Your actions, Sir, are done out of respect for these long-suffering people, and I'm glad you're talking to their leadership.

Conditions in The Levant have become an endless cycle of pain, anger, and retaliation. In some pockets, places like the Gaza Strip, there is horrible poverty and suffering. As long as those conditions exist, people will continue to suffer; that will only breed more hate and revenge. The key to true peace is economic prosperity and education. When people begin to feel satisfied with their lives, they will feel motivated to maintain and improve the quality of their lives. The reasons for their wars will become less and less important.

War is only for the rich and the demented. The vast majority of human beings have very simple needs: to live with peace and happiness, to marvel and enjoy the wonders of nature, to learn and explore. Most of all, they want to leave a better world for their children. It's really that simple.


:hug: :yourock:

[99th_Monkey]

1. Great post. I've been having similar thoughts about Carter and the Hamas flap.

He's exposing all ME warmongers for who they are, Hell-bent on endless bloodshed at the expense of everyone else.

It will be great for President Barak Obama to have him on his foreign policy team.

[shireen]

7. Carter is doing their "dirty work"

Active politicians can't afford to engage Hamas out of fear of angering a small number of their constituents. So they think. It's such a flawed reasoning. We need to talk to Hamas for a very simple reason: to understand where they're coming from. The United States will never be a successful broker for peace unless she understands and openly recognizes the roots of their conflicts.

While Carter continues to openly talk to Hamas, politicians will continue to condemn him. But secretly, behind the scenes, they will be eagerly awaiting his reports, dreaming of ways to play peacemaker. Heck! It might even get 'em a Nobel Peace prize! I just hope, if that happens, that those chickens who were too afraid to stick their necks out in the beginning will acknowledge the true hero who laid the foundations for peace.

[mikelewis]

16. You mean another one...

He got the first Nobel prize for forging peace between Israel and Egypt... though I'm not sure if an award would be suitable if he were to actually achieve a true peace between the Palestinian people and the Israeli government. I don't know what honor we could bestow to him... none could suffice.

[Voice for Peace]

20. Thanks Shireen. I too want to say thanks to Jimmy Carter. Sanity, rare but essential

and I am so moved by his efforts. Thanks for your post.

[klebean]

31. somehow didn't die young

And alive and kicking to do the necessary "dirty work".

[Stinky The Clown]

2. I agree completely

K&R

On edit ..... I just realized ..... my is Number 5 .... off to the Greatest with you!

[sutz12]

3. Undoubtedly the best ex-President in history.

:yourock:

[MrSlayer]

36. Indeed.

There is no doubt.

[juno jones]

60. He was a decent man who inheirited a hellish mess.

Post-presidency, he has become far more than the office of president could ever be.

Peace on him. I hope he succeeds.

[DirtyDawg]

65. Deserves more credit for his pre-ex-Presidency...

...yes Jimmy's been given credit for doing more than any former Prez. From the work of The Carter Center, through his Habitat For Humanity commitments, to his continued commitment to teaching Sunday School in Plains, he's far outdistanced any other. Those that are simply committed to making more and more money off his name and contacts...to those that spent their last days forgetting that he/they were the most deceitful of administrations...seems to me those descriptions fit 'em all - except Ford.

At the same time Carter should be given far more credit for his four years in office. He's been vilified for inflation and high interest rates - the inflation he inherited and was exacerbated by OPEC's (friends of Repug's big oil companies) refusal to open the spigots but was responsible for bringing it under control with virtually the single act of appointing Paul Volcker to head the fed...and the interest rate manipulation was part of the medicine. He was killed by the Iranian Embassy Hostage mess where he happened to be the one in office when the Iranians finally became so fed up with guy we put in charge of their country a couple of decades earlier...hostages that were ultimately freed without any deaths - even though they had to remain captive for months and months and months longer than they needed to because of the deceitful manipulation of, again, Repugnicans ghwbush and his henchman Casey from his CIA days. Perhaps the most telling and ultimately fatal enemy to a Carter Administration was the deceit of the Democratic establishment in the form of Teddy Kennedy and his Washington insiders. Kennedy never admired or supported Carter or anything Carter tried to do. He even ran against him for the nomination for his second term - unheard of in American politics - and after Jimmy 'beat his ass' he never bothered to support the ticket.

My point is that when you look at the body of work of the Carter administration, particularly given the obstacles placed in his path by both Repug and Washington Dems, he was not only the finest ex-Prez but his was a damn fine Prez-Prez.

[xxqqqzme]

107. Don't forget the work he did to try to get the US

moving to alternative energy.

Carter is the only president we had (in my memory) that had a vision for the future and tried to move the country in that direction. He understood that we had to make a sacrifice for a short time - the transition away from fossil fuels - to reach the long term goals. Then dumb fuck st ronnie came along and danced for the puppet masters and al was lost.

[Greyhound]

119. ...and the Camp David Accords.

ETA: His Presidency was the nexus, the path not taken, the lessons not learned. He gave this country, the citizens of this country, the opportunity to hear some truths about ourselves and our conduct. We proved our unworthiness with our reaction to it. I place the turning point at July 16, 1979, the day after the "Malaise" speech.

[Kajsa]

67. Yes he is, Sutz12.

From Habitat for Humanity to
brokering peace talks,

Jimmy Carter walks like he talks.

That's damn refreshing considering who
occupies the White House right now.

Sutz- BIG Seahawks fan here-;-)

They were in my sig line for the longest time.

[laylah]

4. Excellent message

Shireen! :hug: Thank you for putting into words what many of us think/feel.

[ulysses]

5. excellent post.

Thank you.

[melody]

6. Blessed are the peacemakers

Some so-called "Christians" may have forgotten that, but clearly this man hasn't.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

49. Amen!

And if I may complete the Beatitude--"for they shall know God". If one defines "God" as That which wishes peace, balance, and harmony, then may this be so.

[a la izquierda]

90. Most of so-called Christian Oklahoma has forgotten this

The editorial section of The Oklahoman has had letter nearly every day lambasting him. It's disgusting.

[jwirr]

8. Agreed. This idea that the pugs have that war will somehow stabilize

the ME is so far fetched that it is sickening. The more one nation threatens the other the more hate exists and no one is safe. Thank you, President Carter.

[AndyTiedye]

9. Jimmy Carter is By Far My Favorite Living Former President!

[NorthCarolina]

50. Mine too n/t

[mdmc]

94. My all time fav

:pals:

[Kaleko]

118. A visionary and most dedicated civil servant for decades,

Jimmy Carter exemplifies the kind of leadership the world so desperately needs.

I have the deepest respect for this brave man.

[TankLV]

10. Great going, Jiimmy!

and to think obama is CONDEMNING him for it...but gives a pass to Donnie and that ASSHOLE BIGOT wright...

go figure...

[Voice for Peace]

22. that's silly. be informed, use your brain.

[TankLV]

82. I have - unlike you. You can't successfully reply to my point so you post nonsense...

We're still waiting for an answer - and as usual - the silence is DEAFENING...

[RaleighNCDUer]

86. An answer like

"Hillary did too"?

This is what back-channel negotiating is all about. Somebody who is non-affiliated finding out what it will take to get the two sides talking again.

Despite their spoken positions I have little doubt that both Obama and Clinton support his peace overtures. The coming Democratic administration does NOT need more war.

[Horse with no Name]

11. A close friend of mine is meeting with Jimmy Carter next week

I believe I will print this off and send it to him.:thumbsup:

[Rhiannon12866]

62. That would be so very cool! Thank you!

I was wishing that he would somehow see this. I'm changing my avatar back to the one I've had since I joined DU! He is my president and received my first vote...:patriot:

[dusilvers]

85. My first vote too!

I turned 18 just in time to vote for President Carter. It was a hopeful time. If we had followed his policies we would be in much better shape now.

[Rhiannon12866]

98. Very cool and I sure agree! He was my candidate before he even gained a lot of national attention.

I wasn't in the least political, back then, but there was just something about Jimmy Carter that I liked, and I trusted him. IMO, he doesn't get the credit that he deserves. People credit Reagan for the fall of the Soviet Union, but, in truth, he incited the hard-liners there, making it much more difficult for Gorbachev to implement needed reforms. It was Carter's grain embargo that caused that government to fall apart, but I've been to Russia and they like and respect Carter, not so Reagan...:-)

Welcome to DU, dusilvers! It's great to have you with us and I love your avatar...:toast::hi:

[LoveMyCali]

150. My first election was in 1980

and I was determined I was going to vote for John Anderson until my college roommate told me her poli-sci class had all received invitations to hear Carter speak on campus and she could bring a guest. I only agreed because I had some time on my hands and it's one of the best things I've ever done.

There's no way to explain how impressive a man he is when you hear him speak in person, his intelligence, honesty and generosity are all very apparent. Unfortunately though he won my vote that day not enough people were privileged enough to hear him and I had to spend the rest of 1980 drunk after Reagan won the election.

[trof]

12. Carter is a true Christian.

I'm no longer a deist, but I was raised in the Christian church.
As I understand the religion and it's precepts, James Earl Carter, Jr. is a true Christian.
He not only talks the talk, he walks the walk.
Good on ya, Jimmuh.
:-)

[Pastiche423]

13. Beautifully put

Thank you.

Recommend.

[bonito]

14. K&R n/t

[mike_c]

15. kicked, recommended, and agreed 100 percent!

Very well said!

[Barb in Atl]

17. Nothin' but love for JC n/t

[AteAlien]

18. What you said!

thanks for saying it

[Honeycombe8]

19. I think he has made a big mistake. Laying a wreath on Arafat's grave - wow. Huge mistake.

It actually disgusts me. Arafat was truly a miserable man, hell bent on fostering the murder of innocent people. He wasn't totally evil. But still, if it had been your family that his organization had killed, I wonder what you'd think about Carter giving him the formal high-level respect of laying a wreath on his grave.

To recognize Hamas is one thing. To have meetings with the organization for a specific purpose, while also having meetings with other organizations on the opposite side, is one thing. But to have a meeting that can accomplish virtually nothing (since Carter has no power whatsoever) with an organization that wants to annihilate Israel seems like a petty, petulant act by a former President who feels he has been ignored.

[tabasco]

21. Bullshit.

Carter's only goal is to stop bloodshed and your ignorant attitude is the kind that perpetuates the bloodshed.

[Honeycombe8]

23. I do not speak of attitudes. I am speaking facts. Fact: Arafat was a terrorist.

Fact: Hamas is an organization that includes terrorism one facet of accomplishing its goals. Fact: Hamas wants to end the state of Israel.

I repeat: To try to accomplish a peace accord by having discussions with all concerned is a noble thing to do. But to meet with ONLY the terrorist side, and for a former President to lay a wreath on the grave of a former terrorist who never repented the murder of innocent people is wrong.

He has all but killed his reputation as a former President.

[Blue Fire]

25. So, just where should the peace process start?

Just wondering.

[NCDem60]

126. Not with

what amounts to a private citizen inserting himself into the process. He has zero authority to begin anything. I don't question his motives at all but I believe his actions are ill advised.

[Blue Fire]

135. A former U.S. president does indeed carry a certain level of authority.

Despite now being a private citizen, he has just a tad more experience in world affairs than about 99.9% of other private citizens. And before demonizing militant Palestinians, remember that the creation of Israel in 1947 required the symbolic raping of Palestine. They're pissed for a good reason. European Americans are damned lucky that native Americans don't foster the same passion for the return of their homeland!

[NCDem60]

156. You are confusing authority with prestige. NT

[Hippo_Tron]

26. I bet you opposed Rabin and the Oslo Accords too

It's the right wingers on both sides that stand in the way of peace.

[40ozDonkey]

44. Exactly, and Hamas is the very definition of right wing.

There are no progressive ideals in Hamas' charter or actions.

[LeftishBrit]

84. You are absolutely right on THAT!

[Hippo_Tron]

122. True, but as I said down thread I think there is some potential to reason with them...

They are indeed a right wing organization that is empowered by hard-liners who want to see Israel wiped off the map. Now, I don't think their leaders honestly believe that this will ever happen. But the way Hamas stays in power is to constantly work toward this goal.

It's kind of like the Republicans and Roe v Wade. They don't want it to actually be overturned because they want to keep campaigning on overturning it.

What I hope might be able to happen is that there could be secret arrangements reached with Hamas' leadership to stop the suicide bombings. They won't have to publicly recognize Israel's right to exist, just stop the violence.

China doesn't recognize Taiwan's right to exist and they aren't constantly at war with each other.

[Citizen_Penn]

131. How do you propose to open a dialogue to bring peace

if we perpetuate the battle.

And, seriously, what real harm is doing by the laying of a wreath?

It's not like he sold them arms.


I think that he can use his unique position to bring about discussion - and if he fails, it's not like he gave them a nuclear weapon - he gave them FLOWERS.

Sheesh, perspective, please.

[Hippo_Tron]

132. I think you replied to the wrong person

I support Carter.

[Tarc]

28. People like you are the reason there is no progress at all in the Middle East

The blind, insipid devotion to Israel, the state-that-can-do-no-wrong, undercuts any effort some here try to undertake in the Middle East. Yes, Palestinian groups have committed atrocities in their drive to attain a homeland of their own. But the history of modern Israel was founded upon acts of terrorism, from the bombing of the King David Hotel to the assassination of Folke Bernadotte, so their is blood on the hands of all sides. Hell, former Irgun terrorists eventually became heads of state!

If we shut the door to discussions with perpetrators of violence, the halls of diplomacy would be dead silent. I applaud Jimmy Carter for advancing dialogue in opposition to the Bush administration which lacks the spine to do so.

[Behind the Aegis]

37. People like you are the reason there is no progress at all in the Middle East

The blind, insipid devotion to Palestine, the state-that-is-always-the-victim, undercuts any effort some here try to undertake in the Middle East. Yes, Israeli groups have committed atrocities in their drive to maintain and protect a homeland of their own. But the history of the Palestinian homeland movement is founded upon acts of terrorism, from the bombing of a disco and pizza parlor to the multitude of wars launched against Israel, so there is blood on the hands of all sides. Hell, former PLO terrorists eventually became heads of state!

If we shut the door to discussions with perpetrators of violence, the halls of diplomacy would be dead silent. I decry Jimmy Carter for advancing acceptance of terrorists like the Bush administration which lacks the spine to negoitate in good faith.

[MadHound]

70. And former zionist terrorists became heads of state

And face it, Israel has launched lots of wars itself, including the initial one that essentially gave this choice to most Israeli Arabs, either move, quickly, or die.

As you say, there is blood on the hands of both sides, but the fact of the matter is that Israel, from its illegitimate, artificial, immoral beginning has held the superior position, and the only way that Palestinians could get justice was at the barrel of the gun.

What is the definition of a terrorist? I would submit that terrorism is simply the poor man's way of fighting a war. Hell, the Founding Fathers of America were decried as terrorists, so quite frankly, it is simply a matter of perspective.

Israel has kept Palestine down, with a foot on her neck, for sixty plus years now. It ignored the original UN mandated borders and now holds territory that isn't its own, but rather that it gained by conquest. Is this right, or just? No, it is simply the application of might making right. And frankly, Israel wouldn't have achieved the position it has without the concerted help of the US. I think that it's past time that our leaders started dealing with people like Hamas, and started helping the Palestinians regain their dignity, sovereignty and humanity.

[Behind the Aegis]

93. When you know more about the conflict, let me know.

Then we can discuss.

"I think that it's past time that our leaders started dealing with people like Hamas, and started helping the Palestinians regain their dignity, sovereignty and humanity." Should it be at the expense of Israelis?

[MadHound]

96. Let me know when you decide to shed your bias,

Then perhaps we can have an intelligent discussion. Sorry that historical reality is such a problem for you, perhaps you should examine the reasons and biases behind that:shrug:

And never did I mention about taking anything away from Israel. Yes, I think that Israel should return the West Bank and Gaza, but frankly those areas never were really Israel's, they are simply occupied territory. Of course having a pro-Israel person advocating for not taking anything from Israel is ironic, given how much Israel has taken from the Palestinians.

Your bias is showing, you really should correct that.

[Behind the Aegis]

100. I know where my bias is, do you?

I am pro-Israeli and have no issue admitting such.

You, however, have shown you do not understand the "historical reality" of which you claim to speak.

"And never did I mention about taking anything away from Israel."

And, find where I said you said anything of the sort. I asked a question. I never stated it was your position, but it was something important that needed to be known.

"Yes, I think that Israel should return the West Bank and Gaza, but frankly those areas never were really Israel's, they are simply occupied territory."

Again, you show you don't know much about the conflict. Gaza has been "returned." There is a reason for both's occupation, and that one is still on-going speaks volumes. But, not as much as one is no longer occupied and STILL attacks Israel.

"Of course having a pro-Israel person advocating for not taking anything from Israel is ironic, given how much Israel has taken from the Palestinians."

Speaking of bias....where have I said nothing should be taken from Israel? There needs to be compromise, but many only think the Israelis should compromise and the Palestinians, well, they get whatever they want with no real concessions. So who here is advocating one side should have nothing taken from them?

[MadHound]

111. Well, as they say, admitting that you've got a problem is the first step

As far as myself, my bias is towards historical truth, not how it is filtered through the eyes of those who are admittedly biased.

You show this bias in your assertion that Gaza has been returned, yet a few lines later admit that it is still occupied. Do you see the inherent disconnect here?

And to answer to of your questions with one quote, your previous question of "Should it be at the expense of Israelis" comes with your answer already implied that no, Israel shouldn't have anything taken from it. Well my friend, it you're going to compromise, you have to give a little to get a little, that's the way it works. If you want peace in the Mid East, Israel is going to have to be willing to not only give back territory, but also to give full sovereignty to Palestine. Is that too much to ask for? For many of Israel's supporters, the answer seems to be yes. In exchange, Israel will get both peace and recognition. Frankly I think that's a good deal. After all, it isn't the Palestinians who initiated the hostilities here, it was the Israelis.

[Behind the Aegis]

139. And yet you still haven't admitted your problem.

You do not have a bias toward historical truth, but rather against it.

"You show this bias in your assertion that Gaza has been returned, yet a few lines later admit that it is still occupied."

As that didn't actually occur, it does show fact can be misconstrued when "filtered through the eyes of those who are admittedly biased." Though, you don't "admit" your own bias.

Compromise shouldn't be at the expense of one or the other, but something which is mutually agreed upon, thus, compromise.

"After all, it isn't the Palestinians who initiated the hostilities here, it was the Israelis."...."filtered through the eyes of those who are admittedly biased."

[JAbuchan08]

124. Here, I think, is your problem

"many only think the Israelis should compromise and the Palestinians, well, they get whatever they want with no real concessions"

The Palestinians have already made 100's of concessions, granted, they were not willing concessions. The very creation of Israel was a "compromise" of the Palestinian right to self-sovereignty, and every peace proposal since has consisted of the Palestinians compromising more of their territory away to Israel.

That Israel occassionally proposes to allow the Palestinians to keep some of the territory and the human rights which they are already supposed to be entitled to doesn't really qualify as compromise to me.

Compromise consists of two sides giving equally, not one side taking less.

[Behind the Aegis]

144. Read more history, then get back to me.

Posting nothing but "victimized" propaganda doesn't address the real issues.

[JAbuchan08]

162. what is it that you think I should know about "history"

that there were no people in Palestine before the mostly European Jewish emigres began to arrive in the 19th century?

I've read quite a bit of the history. I'm more concerned about what is happening now. Israel is an occupier and the Palestinians are the occupied. As the agressor it is incumbent upon Israel to fufill it's obligation to the rights of the Palestinians.

[rockymountaindem]

167. *Israel* started the '48 war???

How do you figure?

[DaDooRonRon]

120. Saddest post in here

The proverbial pot calling the kettle black.

A mainstay behind one of the most vile sites on the Internet calling out someone for truly searching for peace.

You should be ashamed, but that is so far beyond your ability to comprehend it is almost laughable.

Delete this if you will mods - I don't care.

Hate wrapped up in never-ending victimhood disgusts me.

[Behind the Aegis]

140. Your's is the saddest post here because you don't recognize...

...the post was mocking the absurd post above by using the SAME wording with a few changes. But, don't feel lonely, you are the only one who didn't get it.

On edit: the only thing laughable is your sad hyperbole about one the most vile websites. You don't get out much do you?

[DaDooRonRon]

149. I can say this

On the rare occasions when I do get out and visit your other home, I get an overwhelming urge to wash my hands, lest they carry the stench of hatred with them for too long.

Oh, and sorry for not "getting" your feeble attempt at humor. I can only go by your previous track record, which is chock full of the same type of vitriol, only this time without the "absurdity" tag that you seem to preface your stuff with here.

Perhaps you should provide a PM "window" to the curious - I'm sure they'd LOVE to see how you and your friends behave in your own house.

I would accuse you of being too clever by half, but I fear the phrase would sail over your head.

I've seen all of you I can stomach, so goodbye.

P.S. Can't wait to see this post up over at hate central, along with the third-grade comments that you folks so eagerly provide.

[Behind the Aegis]

157. BWHAHAHAHAHA!

Pathetic response, but not unexpected. When able to actually admit you were wrong, it is still filled with lies, propaganda, and more hyperbole...and...baseless personal attacks. Seems you are the one looking for hate where there is none...get help.

[newmajority]

133. Jimmy Carter is the ONLY President to ever help Israel make peace with any of their neighbors.

Is that WHY the Likud in Israel, and the Likud sympathizers here hate him?

As for Arafat, while he certainly was no saint, neither were a lot of the Israeli leaders. Sharon, for example, was every bit as much a terrorist as Arafat. All the same though, Arafat was about to make peace with Rabin, and the Likudist bastards took Rabin out to make sure that didn't happen.

Think of where Israel and Palestine might have been today, had Rabin not been murdered. That loss to Israel was as significant as the murder of JFK was to the US. Not in just the murder of one man, but in the motives of those who did it (and it was no "lone nut" there any more than it was Oswald) and the fact that Israel has never come close to making peace since then.

As I said, Jimmy Carter has more success in this area than anyone. I can't fault him for trying. Like Hamas or not, they are currently the elected representatives of the Palestinian people. If you don't like that, remember that we have warmongers and terrorists in this country "elected" by a minority of the people, as well.

[Behind the Aegis]

142. Read more than propaganda.

And you will find your assertion is not correct. Also, learn more about Israeli politics before making comments as you have. While Likud is right-wing, it is hardly the only one, nor is it the only problem, yet, it seems to be the only political party many Americans know....propaganda.

[Tarc]

161. Mindless copycat drivel usually means you have no leg to stand on

Good to see many other users here called you out for your bullshit while I was gone.

[Behind the Aegis]

164. Actually it was your drivel and it proved a very important point.

Your bullshit proved propaganda from a Palestinian perspective is acceptable, from an Israeli one, not so much. Then, again, I already knew this.

[Tarc]

166. /yawn

Don't you have some AIPAC checks to write?

[Behind the Aegis]

168. HAHAHA!

Pathetic. Don't hate Israel, one must be involved with AIPAC. Gee, where have I heard something like that...oh yes, if you aren't with us, you are with the terrorists. Cut from the same damaged cloth.

[Fedja]

33. Facts are fun. Fact: Arafat was a great leader.

Fact: Israel is a state that includes state terrorism as a linchpin in accomplishing its goals. Fact: Israel is militarily occupying a foreign territory.

If you intend to paint the middle-eastern conflicts with a black&white brush, you have another thing coming.

Hamas's primary objective is to provide a prosperouus country for the Palestinians to live in. Even in these times of pain and suffering, Hamas has built more schools, businesses, and infrastructure in Palestine than any other organization. It has broad support among the people who are tired of war and conflict, not due to its military action, but due to its care for the the people it seeks to lead and protect.

Now... a faction of Hamas does act militarily against Israel. You call it terrorism, I call it grasping for straws and using available resources. If we were to conduct an experiment and gave Hamas an army, a proper army as large as the one the US gave Israel, I'm sure we'd see a balanced military conflict which you would be more comfortable with. Sure, droves of civilians might die, but that's collateral damage right? On the other hand, one could consider the option that peace would ensue if Israel couldn't bully and opress a weaker state anymore.

Arafat was a leader of his people. He was a leader that did more for Palestine than any recent figure, and the only one to come close to an actual peace foundation in the region. Ending the state of Israel was never a point on the Hamas agenda, but rather beating back anyone that might occupy Palestinian lands and kill Palestinian civilians on a daily basis.

[Behind the Aegis]

35. More facts....

"Ending the state of Israel was never a point on the Hamas agenda, but rather beating back anyone that might occupy Palestinian lands and kill Palestinian civilians on a daily basis."

You believe that shit? Fun. Just shows...oh, nevermind...

HAMAS CHARTER

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

...

Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).

...

Arab countries surrounding Israel are asked to open their borders before the fighters from among the Arab and Islamic nations so that they could consolidate their efforts with those of their Moslem brethren in Palestine.

As for the other Arab and Islamic countries, they are asked to facilitate the movement of the fighters from and to it, and this is the least thing they could do.

We should not forget to remind every Moslem that when the Jews conquered the Holy City in 1967, they stood on the threshold of the Aqsa Mosque and proclaimed that "Mohammed is dead, and his descendants are all women."

Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Moslem people. "May the cowards never sleep."

....

The Attempt to Isolate the Palestinian People:

Article Thirty-Two:
World Zionism, together with imperialistic powers, try through a studied plan and an intelligent strategy to remove one Arab state after another from the circle of struggle against Zionism, in order to have it finally face the Palestinian people only. Egypt was, to a great extent, removed from the circle of the struggle, through the treacherous Camp David Agreement. They are trying to draw other Arab countries into similar agreements and to bring them outside the circle of struggle.

The Islamic Resistance Movement calls on Arab and Islamic nations to take up the line of serious and persevering action to prevent the success of this horrendous plan, to warn the people of the danger eminating from leaving the circle of struggle against Zionism. Today it is Palestine, tomorrow it will be one country or another. The Zionist plan is limitless. After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying.

Leaving the circle of struggle with Zionism is high treason, and cursed be he who does that. "for whoso shall turn his back unto them on that day, unless he turneth aside to fight, or retreateth to another party of the faithful, shall draw on himself the indignation of Allah, and his abode shall be hell; an ill journey shall it be thither." (The Spoils - verse 16). There is no way out except by concentrating all powers and energies to face this Nazi, vicious Tatar invasion. The alternative is loss of one's country, the dispersion of citizens, the spread of vice on earth and the destruction of religious values. Let every person know that he is responsible before Allah, for "the doer of the slightest good deed is rewarded in like, and the does of the slightest evil deed is also rewarded in like."

....

"Hamas's primary objective is to provide a prosperouus country for the Palestinians to live in." :rofl:

[DutchLiberal]

46. I don't think decennial old 'charters' written to arouse the 'base' override the reality...

An example to compare": in Holland, we have a Labor Party, which consists of social-democrats. Now their 'charter' says they are striving for a socialist state and pursuing socialist ideals, but they haven't been socialists for decennials. But you say we should override reality because an old meaningless 'charter' says so?

It IS a fact Hamas has done many things to improve the lives of the Palestinian people, like building schools, hospitals, an infrastructure etc.

[Fedja]

58. Ancient declarations? Let's see....

Virginia Declaration of Rights

I That all men are by nature equally free and independent, and have certain inherent rights, of which, when they enter into a state of society, they cannot, by any compact, deprive or divest their posterity; namely, the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety.

II That all power is vested in, and consequently derived from, the people; that magistrates are their trustees and servants, and at all times amenable to them.

III That government is, or ought to be, instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security of the people, nation or community; of all the various modes and forms of government that is best, which is capable of producing the greatest degree of happiness and safety and is most effectually secured against the danger of maladministration; and that, whenever any government shall be found inadequate or contrary to these purposes, a majority of the community hath an indubitable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to reform, alter or abolish it, in such manner as shall be judged most conducive to the public weal.

IV That no man, or set of men, are entitled to exclusive or separate emoluments or privileges from the community, but in consideration of public services; which, not being descendible, neither ought the offices of magistrate, legislator, or judge be hereditary.

V That the legislative and executive powers of the state should be separate and distinct from the judicative; and, that the members of the two first may be restrained from oppression by feeling and participating the burthens of the people, they should, at fixed periods, be reduced to a private station, return into that body from which they were originally taken, and the vacancies be supplied by frequent, certain, and regular elections in which all, or any part of the former members, to be again eligible, or ineligible, as the laws shall direct.

VI That elections of members to serve as representatives of the people in assembly ought to be free; and that all men, having sufficient evidence of permanent common interest with, and attachment to, the community have the right of suffrage and cannot be taxed or deprived of their property for public uses without their own consent or that of their representatives so elected, nor bound by any law to which they have not, in like manner, assented, for the public good.

VII That all power of suspending laws, or the execution of laws, by any authority without consent of the representatives of the people is injurious to their rights and ought not to be exercised.

VIII That in all capital or criminal prosecutions a man hath a right to demand the cause and nature of his accusation to be confronted with the accusers and witnesses, to call for evidence in his favor, and to a speedy trial by an impartial jury of his vicinage, without whose unanimous consent he cannot be found guilty, nor can he be compelled to give evidence against himself; that no man be deprived of his liberty except by the law of the land or the judgement of his peers.

IX That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed; nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

X That general warrants, whereby any officer or messenger may be commanded to search suspected places without evidence of a fact committed, or to seize any person or persons not named, or whose offense is not particularly described and supported by evidence, are grievous and oppressive and ought not to be granted.

XI That in controversies respecting property and in suits between man and man, the ancient trial by jury is preferable to any other and ought to be held sacred.

XII That the freedom of the press is one of the greatest bulwarks of liberty and can never be restrained but by despotic governments.

XIII That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that, in all cases, the military should be under strict subordination to, and be governed by, the civil power.

XIV That the people have a right to uniform government; and therefore, that no government separate from, or independent of, the government of Virginia, ought to be erected or established within the limits thereof.

XV That no free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue and by frequent recurrence to fundamental principles.

XVI That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator and the manner of discharging it, can be directed by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore, all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity towards each other.

How many of these do you hold to be true and exercised in practice today?

[Behind the Aegis]

91. Are you joking?

The Hamas charter is far from ancient. But, pretend all you want that Hamas really only has its peoples interest at heart and doesn't desire a Middle East sans Israel. BTW, your post is what is called a "red herring."

[Fedja]

112. You're dodging my question.

/

[Behind the Aegis]

143. I thought you had to be joking.

A red herring like that is just so silly. Comparing the Virgina statement to the more recent and unreasoned Hamas Charter is just poor analogy-making.

[Fedja]

148. Both are founding documents.

Neither is followed in practice. Seems pretty solid to me.

[sellitman]

64. Don't confuse the Anti-Zionists here on DU with facts.

When the Palestinians want their own State they will change their charter and most importantly their reign of Terror.

Until then the Peace-Makers are wasting their time.

[Smith_3]

169. The Palestinians have their own state. It is illegally occupied by zionists. nt

[LeftishBrit]

170. I hope you mean specifically the Occupied Territories here?

While the OTs SHOULD become a Palestinian state, they were not so in the past. They were formerly occupied by Jordan and Egypt; and before that by Britain; and before that by the Ottoman.

I am strongly in favour of an end to the Occupation and a two-state solution, but let's not re-write history.

[LeftishBrit]

38. Huh?

'Hamas's primary objective is to provide a prosperouus country for the Palestinians to live in'

Then they're doing a very bad job of achieving it.

BTW, Arafat was not in any case a member of Hamas, and the party that he led is now at near-war with Hamas.

[Fedja]

57. PLO doesn't function anymore

Part of the reason they're doing a bad job at it is the M1 Abrams tanks, the Apache helis, and the nuclear warheads that embolden Israel in its oppression of a miserable neighbor.

[cali]

40. OK, that's ridiculous. I have no problem whatsoever with

Carter laying a wreath- he's showing respect for the Palestinian people via that gesture, but to call Arafat- who was massively corrupt- a great leader, is absurd. YOU are using a black and white brush yourself- heavily. Hamas' primary objective is not some simple, all encompassing good. Not even close. I support what Carter is doing, but I don't support the kind of simple minded propaganda you're pushing. To say that ending the state of Israel is not a point in Hamas' agenda, is either massive ignorance, or just propaganda. It's long been a top priority.

[Fedja]

54. If that was its agenda

...it wouldn't have the massive support of the Palestinian people, whose top priority is an end to constant deaths and hostility (as they are taking the brunt of the pain arising from it).

Your perception of "corruption" as a benchmark for leadership is a ridiculous concept not only in the Middle East, but also in Washington. :P

Finally, I don't push propaganda, but a counterweight. There must be both black and white to make for the gray that is reality.

[cali]

103. first of all, the Palestinian people don't "massively" support Hamas

Polls don't reflect that. And things are complicated about the sentiment of Palestinians re Hamas. Hamas used to run successful social programs. Used to. And yeah, you're slinging propaganda. You have a black/white viewpoint.

[Fedja]

113. The poll that was the election did.

Hamas won the Palestinian election, remember?

[Hippo_Tron]

121. cali, I agree completely

IMO Hamas' objective, like that of any other government, is to stay in power. I do believe that they have rational political objectives (despite the media making us believe that they're just religious nutjobs) and don't honestly plan on wiping Israel off the face of the map.

The problem is that Hamas' rasion d'etre is partly the destruction of Israel. They know it will never happen, but in order to maintain their political base, they have to keep trying to make it happen. It's kind of like the Republicans and Roe v Wade. They want it to be around forever so that they can keep campaigning on having it overturned because that's how they get votes.

Honestly I don't think Hamas is going anywhere anytime soon and not to try and come to some sort of arrangement would be foolish. I think there is some potential to reach secret deals with the leadership to stop the violence, without forcing them to publicly recognize Israel's right to exist.

China doesn't recognize Taiwan's right to exist, but they aren't constantly sending suicide bombers across the strait.

[Fedja]

136. The issue is, it's a two-way street.

Nobody can demand that Hamas publically acknowledges "Israel's right to exist" (even though that is a contradiction in itself, existence can't be subject to a granted or denied right), as long as the right of the Palestinian state to exist is continuously rejected by Israel and its allies. Now, Palestine may deny Israel's right in words, but cannot prevent it with action. Quite the oposite is true for the other side, where Israel doesn't state as much, but they occupy palestinian territories and constantly block and bomb the Palestine lands in order to prevent them from prospering.

No political party in that situation can choose to ignore the conflict if it wishes to be credible, much less successful. In much the same way, no political party in such a situuation can remain moderate. It just can't happen, moderate words don't get anywhere as long as you have a foreign tank parked outside your bedroom window and don't have access to clean water or electricity. The US has embarked on a decade of warmongering and hateful politics after one single attack with 3000 dead. Try to immagine what the local political field would look like after a few decades of daily bombing, occupation, and death measured in percentages of total population, rather than thousands.

Yet somehow... When they try to fight back with pathetically proud thretoric backed up only by a pile of rocks and shoddy home-made would-be rockets... They're the terrorists. And the state that has crushed their lands with the US-provided army boot for decades is... the victim? Excuse me if I consider anyone with that opinion brainwashed beyond repair.

[Hippo_Tron]

151. Oslo Accords could've led to Palestinian statehood

And part of the reason they failed was right wing dragging their feet, and the right wing nutjob assassinated Rabin. But Hamas' continued suicide bombings after the accords were signed helped put Netanyahu and later Sharon in power, which is ultimately a big part of why no progress on Palestinian statehood.

In Israel people vote Likud (I guess Kadima now as well) whenever they are scared just like people in the United States vote Republican when they are scared. Hamas' actions scare the shit out of Israelis so they elect more right wingers who are less willing to compromise and it's a vicious cycle.

Again, Rabin and Peres were serious about making peace with Arafat and Hamas did everything in their power to derail that process. That tells you something about Hamas' goals.

[still_one]

106. ha, where are the millions he stole from the Palestinians

Arafat and his good friend Idi amin are cast from the same mold

[DutchLiberal]

45. You've got your facts wrong.

First of all, Arafat was the leader of the PLO, not head of Hamas, which is a rivaling Palestinian resistance movement.

Second, Hamas-leader Ismael Haniyeh has already announced in recent years it is no longer the goal of his organization to "end the state of Israel".

Lastly, why don't you speak about the Israeli government as "the terrorist side"? Their actions have killed far more innocent Palestinian civilians than the other way around.

And let's not forget Israel fostered Hamas economically in their beginning days, because they hoped they would rival with PLO. So they were happy to support what you call a terrorist organization to achieve their own goals.

[Bluenorthwest]

71. But in 1994

Arafat shared the Nobel Peace Prize with Rabin and Peres. Carter's own Nobel came from the same events as the three others. Carter knew Arafat. Death ends all quarrels. The one above ground has in the final sense, won the hand, and people of honor are often humbled by that moment. Carter believes in redemption and hopes he will find it himself. His religion teaches love and forgiveness toward even avowed enemies, specifically toward enemies in fact. Old men make peace with abandon, as young men make war without thought. I will stand with old man Carter on that one.

[RaleighNCDUer]

88. So was Begin.

It was Carter's reading of Begin's biography that gave him the insight as to how to negotiate a lasting peace between Israel and Egypt.

All sides have used violence to further their political aims, there. By any definition, all sides have terrorists. The fact is, Arafat renounced terror, agreed that Israel has a right to exist as a nation, and positioned himself to be the first Palastinian president. If an Israeli RW terrorist had not murdered the head of Israel's government, effectively stopping all negotiations, there would have been a Palastinian state long before this, and Hamas would have never existed.

There is plenty of fault to go around - the way to end it is stop pointing fingers and start talking.

As for 'meet with only the terrorist side', that is utter bullshit. He is one of the very few Americans who has any cred with the Palastinians -to them, he is an honest broker, as the US once used to be. He knows, and the Palastinians know, that you have to talk to both sides. The fact that he HAS talked only with the Palastinians doesn't mean he WILL talk only with the Palastinians, and you damn well know it.

[wurzel]

104. Give me the name of leader of a country who is not a "terrorist"?

They are all willing to kill men women and children by blowing them up if it meets the objective of defending their country. There are no exceptions.

[tabasco]

163. Have you checked out some of the Israeli leaders' resumes?

There has been terror on both sides but you refuse to acknowledge it.

http://www.countercurrents.org/pa-pilger110903.htm

That is the attitude of which I speak. It is called hate. You see things in black and white. The others are the "terrorists" and your group is the good guys. That is a stupid view of the world and one that only leads to war and violence. Carter is much better and smarter than you and has already made progress to save live on both sides. Recognize your ignorance and prejudice and work to make yourself better.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/21/israelandthepalestinians.usa?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront

[barb162]

59. Carter is a jerk for meeting with and coddling terrorists.

[farmbo]

81. Manachem Begin bombed the King David hotel in 1948, killing dozens...

...and was embraced by three US Presidents and received with honors at the White House as Israel's Prime Minister.

Today's "terrorist" is tomorrow's "statesman".

[Greyhound]

117. Lest you've forgotten it, this nation was founded by terrorists.

It is this manufactured reaction to media labels that causes the continuation of the misery.

Hamas has done horrible things, the Israelis have done horrible things, we've done horrible things, the point is to create an environment in which people can stop doing horrible things.

[azurnoir]

116. First off Arafat has negotiated with Israel

in 2000, and yes he did walk out on negotiations, however it should be noted that Bill Clinton told Arafat one thing ie: if the negotiations failed "no one would be blamed", then when they did fail placed the blame directly on Arafat, why would Clinton do this?

Secondly you then bring Hamas in the comment, was this an attempt at conflating Hamas and Arafat for those who do not know or ignorance on your part?

As for Hamas ignoring and isolating them will not help, like it or not they are the government in Gaza and the policy of isolation, with holding funds, and "interference from abroad" has only served to to worsen the situation not to mention opening a door to Iran.

[WheelWalker]

127. Even Richard Nixon has got soul

[Hayduke Lives]

152. good point

Traffic cops are all color blind.
People steal from their own kind.
Evening comes to early for a stroll.
Down neon streets the streaker streaks.
The speaker speaks,
but the truth still leaks,
Where even Richard Nixon has got soul.
Even Richard Nixon has got it,
Soul.

[WheelWalker]

154. And welcome to DU.......On Edit,

I see you've been a member longer than I. You should offer a lyrical repose more often. Blessed Be.

[Hayduke Lives]

165. I spend more time lurkin' than postin'

[Citizen_Penn]

128. Sorry, I could not disagree with you more.

E pluribus unum

Applies to more than just our country, if we choose it, it could apply to our planet.

Jimmy Carter understands and lives that.

He makes me proud to be an American in a way that no living former President does.

Statesman - a word I hope to someday use to describe a future American president, applies to Carter.

[Blue Fire]

24. A man of peace calling for peace.

His extraordinary character speaks for itself. This world could use a few more Jimmy Carters!

[Richard Steele]

27. I couldn't say it any better than that. K&R

[OwnedByFerrets]

29. Fantastic Post.

[swimmernsecretsea]

30. What a pleasant surprise to read this, and the posts added.

I've thought this often about President Carter, how he has proven how caring and empathetic he is, and what a powerful leader he's become in his later years, being one who leads quietly but forcefully, with his example, and without pushing people apart. How fortunate we are to have had someone as President Carter bring us the wisdom he's learned.

Thanks for posting this.

[King Coal]

32. Thanks Shireen. K&R city bingo.

[democrank]

34. I really respect this man.

~PEACE~

[LeftishBrit]

39. If he can achieve something, that is good.

I think that both sides of the issue are exaggerating his power. His opponents act as though by going, he's committing America to some sort of official endorsement of Hamas; many of his supporters act as though he can establish a lasting peace just through force of character, when he has no official power.

I think he has the right to go, as a private citizen and ex-president, and it doesn't mean a personal, let alone national, endorsement of Hamas. He also spoke to a couple of very right-wing Israeli politicians: the leader of Shas, and Avigdor Lieberman. Having talks with someone doesn't mean endorsing them.

But I'm not expecting miracles. Any small steps to peace are good - we'll see if anything is achieved.

[susankh4]

41. Always admired Pres. Carter

his amnesty for the viet-nam "draft dodgers" will never be forgotten by any of us.

K&R

[girl gone mad]

42. One of my favorite Carter quotes:

"We’ve fought fire with fire, never thinking that fire is better quenched with water."

[liberal N proud]

43. He is the President bu$h could never be

[malaise]

47. Great post

K & R

[greiner3]

48. Until one group or the other drops a nuke in the Middle East;

Whiners from both sides cannot compare their misery and suffering to what happened to Ireland from William of Orange up to and surpassed by the Great Potato Famine. I have Irish ancestors and was taught from a youngster to loathe anything British. But fast forward to the 21st century. Ireland is one of the leading countries of the world in GDP and industrial output.

BTW, Go Jimmy!

[DeeDeeNY]

51. A great president and a great person

K&R

[brer cat]

52. An excellent post, shireen!

I'm with you, friend. :hug:

"The vast majority of human beings have very simple needs: to live with peace and happiness, to marvel and enjoy the wonders of nature, to learn and explore. Most of all, they want to leave a better world for their children. It's really that simple."

[DrZeeLit]

53. He walks the talk. Always. Class act -- nothing up his sleeve. n/t

[reprehensor]

55. Amen.

He should continue to do this.

[Rhiannon12866]

56. Excellent post! K&R!

Jimmy Carter is my president and one of my heroes. He was my avatar for the entire time I've been on DU, until the current campaign season. He has done so much to broker peace in this region and has to be heartsick that the current administration has completely ignored this dire situation, while people there are forced to live unimaginable lives and many continue to die.;(

I've often thought that they should have called on him, who did so much and continues to work for peace and fair elections throughout the world, but they're just too damn partisan. *sigh*

It sent me over the edge when they didn't "have room" for him on Air Force One when attending the funeral of Pope John Paul II, who was his friend.:-(

And, like it or not, Hamas was fairly elected to represent the people in this region, so we have to deal with them, and that's not something that we can say about Bush*!:grr:

[duhneece]

61. Thank you Jimmy Carter

And thank you Shireen...hope you mail him a copy of this when it's 'through.'

[Straight Shooter]

63. Jimmy Carter has the courage of his convictions.

He is a true role model for the world. The destruction of America began contemporaneously with the agenda by the right wing of tearing down Jimmy Carter with their concurrent elevation of a silver-tongued devil named Reagan.

[montanacowboy]

66. Hear Hear

President Carter is one of the finest Americans to have ever led this country, but because he is A REAL CHRISTIAN, unlike the pseudo fanatics who currently rule us, they cannot take it; they cannot want him to really broker any kind of peace because that would get into the way of their Zionist ambitions of the end of the world and their worship of all things right wing.

If there is a true hero and fine American, Jimmy Carter is it. Thank you sir, Jesus would be proud of you.

[KaptBunnyPants]

68. They call the man an anti-semite for talking to Hamas.

Not giving them money, training, or weapons; simply talking to them. Just for seeing what it would take for them to participate in a peace process. The duly elected leaders of the Palestinian people are just supposed to be ignored or assassinated, according to anti-peace forces, unless you wish to prove yourself a bigot. Why won't Israel use the temporary security we are providing them to settle for a long term peace?

[defendandprotect]

79. I don't think this works anymore . . . does it?

[Behind the Aegis]

102. Nope, because few care if they are called such.

[Crunchy Frog]

123. Because the epithet is so overused, it's coming to have almost no meaning.

[Behind the Aegis]

145. It's because many don't care.

[Behind the Aegis]

146. That's not why.

But, then again, when it comes to this topic, most care little for actual facts when propaganda makes a better story.

[Jack Rabbit]

69. Good show.

If President Carter undermines Mr. Bush's foreign policy, that's a good thing.

[Rhiannon12866]

73. If President Carter undermines Mr. Bush*'s LACK of foreign policy, that's an even better thing...

Good point, my friend...:hi:

[Loki]

72. Peace doesn't occur between those of like mind and attitude

it comes from dealing with long standing hatred and bitter animosity with dialogue, justice and diplomacy. Jimmy Carter won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2002 because it takes courage to sit down with your enemy and talk about what can be done to find a common thread and work for the benefit of all the people involved. Like Dwight Eisenhower said: “Though force can protect in emergency, only justice, fairness, consideration, and cooperation can finally lead men to the dawn of eternal peace.” If we refuse to talk with those we label as "terrorists", then soon we will have no one left to talk to. Every enemy, every nation, every war we or any country has been involved in has had it's own brand of terrorism. Imagine where we would be if we never sat down and talked about peace.

[question everything]

74. One question to Carter: how would you have liked it had a private citizen

a senior one, even, had decided to start his own foreign relations mission?

You failed as a president, why should anyone take you seriously?

Sure, these days, it is easy to win the accolades of the world: just say something nasty about Bush. Really easy shot.

[Raejeanowl]

76. It Would Be Easier Still To Do Nothing

What do you think it all gains him?

I don't run the world, I failed to even attempt the White House, why should anyone take me seriously? What about you?

As for saying nasty things about Bush, we're all heroes here behind our keyboards; some actually go out and do. He doesn't need our permission or approval to live what he believes.

[TankLV]

83. Carter is/was a more successful President as compared to the WORST bunkerboy...

and his idiot father...

Nobel Peace Prize is just a piece of paper, right?

Your definition of failure isn't what the rest of the world thinks...thankfully...

Now if you want ot talk about the AWOL LYING COKE SNORTING DRUNK SPOILED WAR CRIMINAL, then we can have an intelligent conversation...

[WillyT]

75. Excellent Post !!! - K & R !!!

:kick:

[kestrel91316]

77. I love Jimmy Carter. He is a man who knows that talk is cheap,

and actions are what really counts. He is an amazing person, and it is OUR loss that we did not re-elect this true visionary and instead installed the devil's right-hand man because he acted like a kindly grandfather.

Think for one minute where we would be if we had had Carter's desire for energy independence for another 4 years, perhaps followed by 8 years of Walter Mondale pushing for the same. Our whole world would be a very different place.

[defendandprotect]

78. Peace is a dirty word for this administration and war is glorified . . .

for someone else's children to fight and die in --
while they rake in the gold.

Jimmy Carter is hated by these monsters for his peacemaking --

[Raejeanowl]

80. Carter Deserves Much Better Than He Got

Even from us, his party.

And Ted Kennedy can just go *&%$%# himself, as far as I'm concerned. History will tell another tale about Carter, but Kennedy will still be a drunk, womanizer, abysmal husband who drove his own wife to drink, pathetic role model to his nieces and nephews, coward and murderer despite any of his political accomplishments.

[Uncle Joe]

87. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, shireen.

[Toucano]

89. There has not been a single voice in the media expressing this view.

It's shocking, isn't it? Thank you for expressing it so well.

[mdmc]

92. God Bless JIMMY CARTER!

[Joey Liberal]

95. Jimmy Carter is a HERO

Too bad the current administration doesn't have the balls to be doing what Jimmy Carter is doing. CondaSleeza Rice is the worst Sec. of State ever.

[question everything]

97. Hitler and Ahmedinejead were elected by their people

Is it any coincidence that all, including Hamas, put on their banner the destruction of the Jewish people?

What a wonderful post, in Passover, to remind the Jewish people that, indeed, in every generation there is a new Pharaoh bent on destruction of the Jewish people.

[Behind the Aegis]

101. History repeating....and repeating...and repeating...

When will the cycle end? I think we both know that answer.

[Fedja]

137. Change your name please.

Did you just associate Hitler, Ahmadinejad (whose name you even failed to spell), and Hamas?

- A man who has committed the holocaust (even though you'll surely be amused to hear Hitler's track record with Jews pales in comparison with Stalin)
- A democratically elected president of a nation that hasn't attacked anyone in centuries
- A political organization in a country occupied and terrorized by Israel

Do tell, where is the correlation? You're using the talking points of a government that was not elected but appointed, has attacked countless countries in recent history and 2 in the last couple of years, and a government whose supreme commander has the spelling skill that matches your own.

Hint.. if everyone is moving in the opposite direction, you're in the wrong lane.

[pegleg]

141. Actually there are some very strong parallels between Hamas and

the Nazis. The leadership of Palestine was allied with the Nazis in WW11. And certainly the jews were a common target for all. And who has denied the extermination of Jews but your old buddy, Ahmadinejad. The similarities and the intentions are very obvious.

[Fedja]

147. Actually..

the arabs signed a treaty with the French and the British in WWII, where they assisted the allies in the fight against the axis. The Allies didn't live up to their part of the deal, but hey.. Not the first or last time the west has screwed em over eh?

"My best buddy in the whole wild world ever since I've had the pleasure of hiving him a hummer Ahmadinejad" says lots of dumb shit. So does another president that comes to mind. Only one of those has blood on his hands though, guess who it is.

[pegleg]

155. It was certainly a divided loyalty - Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Muhammed Amin al-Husseini

sided with Hitler. So let's just say that the Arabs were divided on the matter.

[Raksha]

99. "War is only for the rich and the demented."

How very true!

[spanone]

105. k&r

[Festivito]

108. The more I learn, the more I support him.

God bless you, James Earl Carter, and all you love and who love you: near and far.

[pegleg]

109. Hamas' sole purpose for being is the total destruction of Israel.

It is the core of their charter. I salute Carter for trying, but as long as Hamas remains as is, Israel should not recognize them in any way.

[ingac70]

110. Hamas was elected...

And Israel is just as bad as they are. Refusing to talk is refusing peace.

[pegleg]

138. you are right Hamas was elected - which means they represent the views of the

voters. So the entire constituency has vowed to destroy Israel. There's not too much more to say.But if anyone can get the ball rolling, it's Carter.

[Hippo_Tron]

158. China doesn't recognize Taiwan's right to exist, but they aren't at constant war with them

At least not anymore. Back in the 1950's they were.

Hamas will never publicly admit to Israel's right to exist but it may be possible to make under the table arrangements to get them to stop the violence.

[psquare]

114. Jimmy Carter is my hero n/t

[shireen]

115. the bitter exchanges in this thread

are pointless.

Pointing fingers and dredging up the past only makes things worse. There's too much blame to go around.

At some point, we just have to declare, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

We need to use our limited energy and resources to directly help the people who are suffering in this conflict. Most of them happen to be Palestinean. Help them out of poverty, and give them the means to set up a thriving economy.

There used to be communities (and perhaps still are) where Israelis and Palestineans co-existed peacefully. As economic prosperity sets in, those will be the first places to rise out of the mess, and spread their influence across the region. All they need is a little help.

This movement has to come from the people. Politicians, and even the extremists, will follow.

This is a very complex and difficult path to peace. President Carter seems to be the only influential world figure who is going in the right direction. We should be wildly cheering him on. He needs our support.

[Hardrada]

125. Hear! Hear! I always liked Carter and still do. He is into big

issues still, some of the biggest.

[LeftishBrit]

159. You make a very important point

'This movement has to come from the people. Politicians, and even the extremists, will follow.'

There are already a number of peace and coexistence movements jointly organized by Israelis and Palestinians. They represent hope in a situation that sometimes seems hopeless. Here are some links:

www.allmep.org

www.onevoicemovement.org

www.bsst.org.uk

[ExPatLeftist]

129. Great Letter! It amazes me that after thousands of years of human history...

...there are still those out there that think that the way to resolve disputes is by NOT talking to those they oppose.

It's been tried throughout history, and is almost never successful.

To me, that kind of thinking is something that we should all get over at the age of 5 or so.

Baffling.

[WheelWalker]

130. The power of our example is as important as the example of our power.

- Joe Biden

[jerryster]

134. Excellent post! n/t

[shanti]

153. k&r!

i love jimmy carter!

[Indi Guy]

160. Carter gets it - Jimmy's a national treasure...

In the true American tradition -- he speaks his conscience (not lazy rhetoric).

He doesn't care who disagrees (besides, he's got Penn. Ave. cred)