The New Deal held off a popular revolt after "The Great Depression,"

[lonestarnot]

What's holding it off now? edit for possible answer - TORTURE?

[liberal N proud]

1. Television

People are pacified by American Idol and Dancing with the Stars.
Then they tune into the talking heads, who all repeat the same drivel propaganda so the idiot watching thinks it must be true.

[blindpig]

71. It's all here

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/415MB0SF28L._SL500_BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20_.jpg

[dysfunctional press]

90. the **New & Improved!!** opiate of the masses.

marx didn't even see it coming.

[Donnachaidh]

2. too many stupid people glued to their TV sets

Reality shows sank the intelligence quotient of this country to single digit level. These morons won't do a damned thing unless it effects them PERSONALLY.

If you ever get a chance to watch a movie called "Idiocracy" you'll see the levels we HAVE sunk to already. :grr:

[lonestarnot]

7. I will check it out. Thanks.... that is if I can stand to watch it!

:P

[Donnachaidh]

26. it's still being shown on cable - I think it was just on one of the HBO channels

You might be able to get it with On Demand.

[rzemanfl]

9. That is a great movie, but every day since I watched it months

ago I see someone who looks like they belong in it.

[angrycarpenter]

13. I know what you mean.

I still think of it often even after seeing it before christmas.

Question: If you have a bucket that holds 3 gal. and one that holds 5 gal. how many buckets do you have?

[Donnachaidh]

25. it's frightening, isn't it?

I don't think there is a day I don't see an extra from that movie. :scared:

[Two Americas]

79. blaming the people

We have been led to blame the people by a false doctrine of "personal choices" and "personal belief systems" and dragged into a culture war by those who dominate modern liberalism and profit from it. We have been wounded in the house of our friends - our supposed friends. We look everywhere for someone to blame except at ourselves.

Much more ignorant populations have been led in very progressive directions thorughout history. The right wing is doing what they always do, and there is nothing surprising or novel about their program - they advance the interests and desires of the wealthy and powerful few at the expense of the rest of us, as they always have.

What was changed over the last 35 years that has allowed the right wing to gain control over us and dominate our society? We have changed - the intellectuals and activists on the left. We are cowed, confused, co-opted, compromised, ineffective and estranged from the people. Blaming the people is a symptom of this problem.

[madmax]

3. Apathy? n/t

[sergeiAK]

4. Lots of things

Americans are more complacent now. We still have plenty to lose. We have lots of entertainment to divert us, and people willing to lend us money into oblivion at horrid rates to pay for it all.

It's the bread and circuses approach.

We've also disarmed those most likely to revolt, which I'd imagine helps a bit.

[jaksavage]

5. The majority are so doped up

on transfats, sugar and caffiene
weed, alcohol and TV
it will take a few years for them to notice a downturn.

[scarletwoman]

14. I would add pharmaceuticals to your list -- in fact, I'd put it near the top.

How many years have commercials been beaming into peoples' minds that if they don't feel happy, they need to get on an anti-depressant?

Not sleeping on a downy bed with silken sheets? Try our sleeping "aids".

Out of control kid? Run for the ritalin!

Any physical discomfort whatsoever? There's plenty of pills for those.

I bet there are millions more people on pharmaceuticals than on any illicit mind-altering substance. (I have no statistics to cite, so this is strictly my personal opinion)

Your list as it stands is also exactly right -- I would just add Big Pharma as one of the large malign influences in our lives.

sw

[bobbolink]

29. That's certainly a large factor. Anti-depressants are also in our drinking water,

so we all get properly zapped.

It's a damned good thing Bobby Kennedy went through his dark night of the soul after his brother was killed when he did, because he went through a transformative process, and came out of it devoted to poor folk.

Today he'd probably be drugged to the gills, and never confront himself.

What we've lost with pills.

:cry:

[scarletwoman]

31. No "Dark Nights of the Soul" allowed in our brave new world order.

Hi, bobbolink! :hi:

People need to learn how to deal with feeling fucked up, instead of always trying to avoid it.

[bobbolink]

64. You, you, you heretic, you!!! Pain is against the law.

SMILE, dammit!!

:hug:

[scarletwoman]

80. Ha! That's very darkly funny.

When we refuse to feel our own pain, it's little wonder that we have so little desire to acknowledge other peoples' pain, either.

Ya know, there's a largely unconscious and very human trait that I've noticed for years and years. As soon as one person starts recounting their own personal story of pain and grief, there will always be SOMEONE who (including me) who will want to relate their own personal story, too.

Sometimes (many times?) it may be merely an ego-driven weird sort of oneupsmanship (Alas! No graceful gender neutral form for this word).

And maybe sometimes it's because we know, down in our instinctive human/tribal levels of subconscious, that; if we really listen to another person's story of pain and grief, it will make us think of our own pain and grief. And with so much invested in denying our own pain and grief, we cannot bear to take the risk that active empathy might cause our own blockaded emotions to slip the leash.

sw

[bean fidhleir]

88. "merely an ego-driven weird sort of oneupsmanship"

But probably often just a way to say "you're not alone, not a freak, not a loser".

[Hidden Stillness]

83. I Found Myself in a Dark Wood...

"Midway in the journey of our life, I came to myself in a dark wood where the straight way was lost." (A translation of the famous first line of Dante's "Divine Comedy.")

When I first read this thread, I thought it was going to be anouther one of these ignorant, "Roosevelt kept us from Socialist utopia" things--I suggest, if you didn't know anyone from the generations who lived then, that you read Studs Terkel's memoir or something else from someone who lived then, and could tell you how happy and hopeful, how grateful they were for Roosevelt, and how revered Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt were. Of course, the thread ended up being something else entirely, and this "dark night" part was maybe the most wonderful.

Sometimes your life only begins, when everything around you has completely collapsed, you have lost everything or someone you loved has died, nothing has any joy at all anymore, a long-held dream evaporates and you realize it is never going to happen, whatever it might be, and now, for the first time, you notice things, face them and think them over, try to develop qualities in yourself that you have never had and never until now, needed, and for the first time, develop some sympathy for all the rest of the world doing the same, what Wordsworth called, "the still, sad music of humanity," ("Lines Written a Few Miles Above Tintern Abbey"). Once you get over the first part--selfish feelings of misery, anger, etc.--and lead then to the second, where you realize everyone else also suffers this, then you really start to live and understand. Sometimes, when I would feel like everyone else had everything going great, and only I suffered, I would make up a little rhyme and think it over and over:

Happy, happy, happy
everywhere I see;
Everyone is happy,
Everyone but me.

Of course, it was false even as I indulged it. Like the Buddhist story of "Kisa Gotami," where she goes to the Buddha, sorrowing at the death of her child, and the Buddha tells her to get mustard seed from the home of a family that has never suffered the death of anyone there, and bring it back--and she goes, and everywhere she goes, they have all suffered at least one death in the household, she can't find mustard seed from a home where there has been no suffering. It was presented to her as a task, like a "magic talisman" to bring back and it will solve everything, but now the Buddha tells her that she has learned what there really is to learn--that all suffer death, and that it cannot be stopped or run away from. Everyone suffers, just as you do. The Buddha then tells her to bury the child.

By the way, speaking of dark nights of the soul, and finding greatness after suffering and loss--especially as connected with the New Deal topic--what greater examples than Franklin Roosevelt, who discovered compassion and fighting for justice for those who have little or nothing, only after contracting polio and having life suddenly devastated, and Eleanor Roosevelt, many of whose greatest works--Ambassador to the U.N., etc.--came after the death of FDR. Life goes on, sometimes best of all, AFTER we are broken.

[scarletwoman]

92. What a beautiful, soulful post!

I just wanted to commend you on posting such a wise and lovely comment.

The Buddha's "mustard seed" teaching has sustained me through many episodes of loss and grief over the years. Thank you so very much for bringing it here.

sw

[SammyWinstonJack]

93. !

:-)

[DJ13]

6. Imagine our contry in the 30's with the Facist government controlled media of Italy

Thats the plan the neocons believed would save their asses this time.

Unfortunately for them they never counted on the people realizing how much the corporate MSM has been lying to them.

[lonestarnot]

8. How many lies are swallowed? 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 or all of them?

[tblue37]

74. They are trying to do away with Net Neutrality, because our free exchange of info

on the Net is like a bunch of leaks in their dike.

[Warpy]

10. No, it's being headed off by the fact that most people can still

leverage credit card debt, no matter how desperate their financial situation is right now.

As long as people can charge stuff on plastic, they'll have the illusion that they are still OK, that net worth doesn't matter, and that if the rich are getting richer it's only because there is plenty to go around.

[Xipe Totec]

11. No commie threat

The new deal co-opted socialism, thus nominally (and minimally) keeping this country "capitalist".

Without the threat of a communist revolution, there's nothing keeping the robber barons in check.

[jwirr]

20. I think you are right. There does not seem to be the alternative they

had then. Socialism is as close as we come and that seems as you said to have been co opted.

[blindpig]

48. Socialism is the only answer to Capitalism

There is no regulating Capitalism, as long as it control the money it will come back to take all it can, it is it's mandate. Witness what has happened to the New Deal, more than reasonable, yet they hated it. We must destroy Capitalism, for justice and survival.

[Xipe Totec]

49. I'd settle for Capitalism right now

What we have is Italian feudalism, with corporations instead of city-states, and CEOs instead of princes.

We, of course, are wage serfs.

[blindpig]

51. It's all of a piece

Masters are masters, slaves are slaves. Thee's no taming these bastards, they must be gelded.

[bobbolink]

12. In a word... actually, TWO -- Rugged Individualism.

We no longer know how to come together and work for the common good, or to agitate for JUSTICE. Everyone is into their individual solutions, rather than systemic change.

We have built walls between us, and we don't even see them, let alone figure out how to take them down.

I meet people in all walks of life who KNOW how bad the situation is. People posters here dismiss as "idiots", who UNDERSTAND at a very deep level how the corporations are screwing with us, and how it's all going down the toilet.

If "progressives" would reach out to these folks, and start building community instead of castigating those they see as beneath them, maybe there would then be a chance for some revolt.

But, I suppose it feels a lot more satisfying to blame it all on the great unwashed.

:wtf:

[Kajsa]

24. I think we are starting to work

for more cooperation and understanding
between people.

It's the only way to get things done and
especially- achieve our common goals.


When our economy completely hits bottom- it will be too late.


Thanks for posting this, Bobbie.

:D :pals:

[bobbolink]

30. I just hope you are right. I see so many signs of our inability to look at ourselves,

and our commitment to continue blaming those outside of ourselves.

It isn't moving us in the right direction.

:(

:hug:

[Riktor]

38. Fundamental Attribution Error

The tendency to attribute the failings of others to internal, dispositional factors, while attributing one's own failings to external, situational factors.

This is a commonplace mental activity in all individualist societies. It is why people view the homeless as "lazy", single mothers as "promiscuous", and soldiers who torture civilians as "a few bad apples". To take that last analogy a bit further, we tend to view society as a barrel of apples, whereby a few bad ones spoil the bunch. Rarely do we ever suggest the barrel itself is bad. That is to say, it is our society that denies children health care, that paves the road to substance abuse, that makes crime an easy alternative to seeking honest employment.

To further expand your scathing review of so-called "progressives", I would add them to list of people who routinely fall victim to the Fundamental Attribution Error.

They have defined a group of people as being diametrically opposed to their norms and values, and attribute one's belonging in this group ("The Others", as sociologists call it) to internal, dispositional factors. Thus, one is not Republican because one is stupid. One is conservative because one is incapable of thinking for themselves. So on, so forth.

For more on this, I'd suggest picking up a copy of Phil Zimbardo's "Lucifer Effect". Probably one of the greatest social psychologists who ever lived, he designed and carried out the Stanford Prison Experiment in '70s, and went on to become an expert witness in the Abu Ghraib trial.

[Kitty Herder]

42. Great post!1

[raccoon]

52. " Fundamental Attribution Error"

Great post. Thanks for the info. I'll look into the book.

[bobbolink]

66. Terrific analysis! This deserves more discussion!

I'm saddened that we don't talk more on DU about this, and I'm appreciative that you have brought this up.

THIS is how we need to come to understand what we are up against.

Thank you for this stimulating post, and I hope you will consider doing a thread on this!

:applause: :toast: :applause:

[bobbolink]

82. Interesting quotation that seems to me to fit in here:

In addition, to confront them as one's own responsibility means admitting that one's inactivity is connected to these tragedies. To do so involves a recognition that our lives are interconnected and interdependent in ways that run contrary to the myth that we have each gotten where we have by our own individual actions and without the help of others. To recognize this interconnectedness is to acknowledge that we have benefits, and also responsibilities, that extend beyond what we have done or could have done on our own.
Sharing Responsibility by Larry May 1992

[blindpig]

50. Very seductive

The 'rugged individualism' of the yeoman farmer, the reward of sweat and blood, has been transformed into a carte blanc for wide opened greed. It is no accident, it has indeed been a very purposeful project of the capitalist class and it's name is Libertarianism. This pseudo-philosophy, created out of whole cloth for the opposition of Marxism, has only gotten purchase by large infusions of cash, essentially buying positions for favored "economists" who towed the line. Once ensconced in academia they were off and running. Proof positive that only by defanging these bastards for once and all will we have a chance at the sort of egalitarian society natural to humans and demanded by justice.

[bobbolink]

65. You have another essay in you. ^_^

Seductive, indeed.

What you are saying is so important... why isn't this a thread of it's own?

Pleeeeeez?

:hug:

[blindpig]

68. It's already been written,

right here:

http://populistindependent.org/

[bobbolink]

72. I read that a while back. It brought up a lot of bile.

However, I'm low on sleep, and not sure I get the connection with the yeoman farmer.

I have about two functioning synapses left.

:)

[bushmeister0]

15. Watch out for a populist/corporate "Go America" type deal a la

Silvio Berlusconi's Forza Italia or Thaksin Shinawatra's Thai Rak Thai Party, which all look new and fresh but are vehicles for corporate control in the name of "the People."

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

16. intentionally manipulated pacification of the populace

nt

[Zynx]

17. The fact we don't have 25% unemployment or anything close to it.

However, if food prices get much crazier watch out. Inflation can be more devastating than unemployment in terms of riling people up.

[Art_from_Ark]

39. So how did that inflation of the '70s turn out?

Oh, yeah, we got Ronald Reagan out of the deal.

[Zynx]

56. Because a Democrat happened to be in office when it got out of control.

[Art_from_Ark]

85. It was out of control under Nixon and Ford, too

Remember "WIN" buttons?

Whip Inflation Now

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

18. People aren't hurting enough yet

There's still the lure of credit cards sort of keeping people afloat. In the little town where I work, so far I know of only two businesses shutting down, and neither hired more than 10 people. The main factories and big employers here haven't cut back as of yet. During the Great Depression, lots of businesses went under and in a small town at least one if not all of the big employers would be among them.

Mom tells me of HUNDREDS of men riding the rails, going from town to town to seek work. She tells of two men going into their pantry and stealing all the meat Grandmother had canned. Grandfather knew who they were, and refused to prosecute them, probably because he knew they were starving (Grandfather was a country doctor and knew a lot about the village where he lived).

I think that things have to get a lot worse before complacency will be replaced by revolution.

[lurky]

19. We may be teetering on the edge of something really nasty,

but we're not in Great Depression territory just yet. If we see 25% unemployment, bread lines, and so on, then I think you will see unrest. People are scared, but most of them are still hanging on for the time being.

[pretzel4gore]

21. Huey Long

it's fantastic that anyone can talk about ...the dirty 30's, great depression etc... w/out mentioning Huey. But the school system has succesfully hidden Huey, who was murdered ala JFK in 1937, though he would have been US president. Amazing, but true...
Snip>
Long also claimed that Roosevelt had done little to redistribute wealth. When Roosevelt refused to introduce legislation to place ceilings on personal incomes, private fortunes and inheritances, Long launched his Share Our Wealth Society. In February 1934. He told the Senate: "Unless we provide for redistribution of wealth in this country, the country is doomed." He added the nation faced a choice, it could limit large fortunes and provide a decent standard of life for its citizens, or it could wait for the inevitable revolution.

Long quoted research that suggested "2% of the people owned 60% of the wealth". In one radio broadcast he told the listeners: "God called: 'Come to my feast.' But what had happened? Rockefeller, Morgan, and their crowd stepped up and took enough for 120,000,000 people and left only enough for 5,000,000 for all the other 125,000,000 to eat. And so many millions must go hungry."

Long's plan involved taxing all incomes over a million dollars. On the second million the capital levy tax would be one per cent. On the third, two per cent, on the fourth, four per cent; and so on. Once a personal fortune exceeded $8 million, the tax would become 100 per cent. Under his plan, the government would confiscate all inheritances of more than one million dollars. This large fund would then enable the government to guarantee subsistence for everyone in America. Each family would receive a basic household estate of $5,000. There would also be a minimum annual income of $2,000 per year. Other aspects of his Share Our Wealth Plan involved government support for education, old-age pensions, benefits for war veterans and public-works projects.

Some critics pointed out that all wealth was not in the form of money. Most of America's richest people had their wealth in land, buildings, stocks and bonds. It would therefore be very difficult to evaluate and liquidate this wealth. When this was put to Long he replied: "I am going to have to call in some great minds to help me."
<snip

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAlongH.htm

[scarletwoman]

22. Thank you for the valuable history lesson!

The stuff we DON'T know about our history would fill at least 100 times the volumes as the "official" history we are all taught.

:thumbsup:
sw

[maui9002]

32. Beginning with FDR,

the period following the Great Depression and particularly after World War II was a very positive one for most Americans economically; it wasn't until the Reagan revolution began in 1980 and the policies that were adopted thereafter began that the benefits of almost 40 years of relatively progressive economic policies began to be eroded. My point being, regardless of the "facts" about Huey Long, the path taken by this country after the Great Depression, due in large part to the leadership capabilities of FDR, was a very positive one (even for most Republicans).

[scarletwoman]

33. I agree, of course!

Now it's a race between those of us who want to remind our fellow citizens that THEY have the power to demand change, and those who want to keep our fellow citizens feeling powerless.

sw

[maui9002]

34. Your comment should be the tagline at the top of DU

I'm always impressed how Thom Hartmann responds to a caller who expresses a feeling of hopelessness or inevitability about the current situation; he always reminds the caller that he or she has the power to effect change, if he or she will just act on the impulse to do so.

[scarletwoman]

35. Thank you. And thank you for the Thom Hartmann quote!

I take my cue from Arundhati Roy: The PEOPLE are the other superpower.

Unfortunately, this is a realization that has not taken root very well in the U.S.A. -- yet. ;)

sw

[bean fidhleir]

86. Why did you put "facts" in quotes?

Those are facts about Huey. FDR did all he could to sink Huey, and FDR is on record as saying his Second New Deal was his move to "steal Long's thunder".

It's pretty interesting to look at Long's killer, too: nobody has ever been able to figure out why a young, successful, highly-regarded physician would have sacrificed his own life to kill Long. Lots of speculation, but nothing solid. The best speculation is that people in the background who wanted Long dead lied to Dr Weiss that Huey, who was opposed by Dr White's father-in-law, Judge Pavy, was going to claim that Pavy's family were "passe blanc" - "passing for white", a social kiss of death among Whites in '30s Louisiana.

And those "40 years of relatively progressive economic policies" actually amount to about 2 years of progressive policies + 3 years of veering back to the right + 35 years of erosion. And had it not been for the Warren Court, we wouldn't have had that much. The myth of SCOTUS being our last line of defense against legal oppression rests 100% on the years of the Warren Court. If you look at SCOTUS before and since, you get a picture of the highest court siding with the ruling elites on 99% of the important cases.

If you want an analysis of the FDR years, try Alan Brinkley's The End Of Reform: New Deal Liberalism in Recession and War. He shows that FDR didn't have the will to oppose the unified opposition of the elites to reform. FDR's administration did just enough reform to "save capitalism" (as one of his dollar-a-year men boasted) and save FDR's re-election, but then caved. With Huey dead and Coughlin illegally muzzled, FDR had no left or right-populist opposition to his personal political career as president and therefore no need to curry favor with the people.

[PVnRT]

91. Long wanted to get a right-winger elected over FDR

He worked with Father Coughlin to try to get Roosevelt defeated in 1936, so he could run in 1940. The man was a power-hungry lunatic who did not care what it took to win.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAcoughlinE.htm

"In May 1935 Coughlin began having talks with Huey Long, Francis Townsend, Gerald L. K. Smith, Milo Reno and Floyd B. Olson about a joint campaign to take on President Franklin D. Roosevelt in the 1936 presidential elections. Long was expected to the candidate but he was assassinated on 8th September, 1935.

...

In the late 1930s Coughlin moved sharply to the right and accused Franklin D. Roosevelt of "leaning toward international socialism or sovietism". He also praised the actions of Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini in the fight against communism in Europe. On 20th November 1938, Coughlin defended the activities of the Nazi Government as a necessary defence against the Soviet Union.

Like Joseph Goebbels, Coughlin claimed that Marxist atheism in Europe was a Jewish plot. Coughlin also attacked the influence of Jews in America and this resulted in him being described as a fascist. In April 1941, Coughlin endorsed the America First Committee. However, his now open Anti-Semitism made this endorsement a mixed blessing for the organization."

This is no casual connection; Long worked with a guy veering quickly towards fascism to unseat the president guiding the country through it's worst economic crisis while avoiding an all-out revolution.

[maui9002]

23. Circumstances today not close to those of Great Depression

I recognize the economic suffering that many are either going through or about to go through, but comparing the current economic situation to that of the Great Depression, which was a worldwide economic meltdown of unprecedented proportions, and which culminated in widespread bank closings in the U.S., where depositors could not access money held in banks, is like comparing Iraq or Vietnam to World War II; they're just not the same by an order of significant magnitude and drawing comparisons of this sort aren't very helpful (in my always humble opinion).

[lonestarnot]

27. Oh ok... in a couple of months then it will be ok to talk about it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080421/ap_on_bi_ge/earns_bank_of_america;_ylt=Arh1TVtd6eTLYSrw090Z6Zes0NUE

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080421/ap_on_bi_ge/oil_prices;_ylt=AgTHNz_BoXHsxyJasXvsNJ.s0NUE

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080421/ap_on_bi_st_ma_re/wall_street;_ylt=AtBGX.qcIDd5SbJPdZQRrICs0NUE

http://www.thestreet.com/newsanalysis/banking/10405078.html

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/fdic-reports-second-bank-failure/story.aspx?guid=%7BB05A929A-E404-4CEF-830D-5864E8F591A4%7D

[bobbolink]

28. "Oh ok... in a couple of months then it will be ok to talk about it."

:applause:

:thumbsup:

[Zynx]

57. I'll be glad to. We won't have another Great Depression.

We've had dozens of economic downturns in our country's history. Only three of them come close to the Great Depression and they were all in the 19th century.

[lonestarnot]

59. LOL ok in a couple of months then we can rehash. LOL

[bobbolink]

67. Those who are left.

[maui9002]

84. I'll put it on my tickler system

and we'll see what will happen in the next two months.

[varelse]

36. It's possible that the upcoming elections, and the extended primary (for the Democrats)

are holding back a popular uprising. It's also possible that people no longer believe that 'taking it to the streets' has any effect. Given that millions went into the streets to protest NAFTA and also the Iraq war, and our media downplayed these events, it's possible that some grass-roots leaders and activists simply have come to understand that the impact these massive protests doesn't merit the risk of of organizing them - anymore.

Look, for example, at what has been done to Code Pink, and what has been said about them even here, in "progressive headquarters".

[annabanana]

37. We are just entering a "great depression".. I believe they

intend to handle the inevitable popular revolt with a massive police-state crackdown instead of a "new deal".

[lonestarnot]

40. One that incorporates disappearing individuals/groups and torture.

[Kitty Herder]

43. That's how Germany handled their depression in the thirties.

:scared:

[bobbolink]

89. At this point, I'd rather be put to death publicly than suffer to death silently and without concern

from others.

Maybe public deaths of those of us who can no longer make it might wake up a few dunderheads????????????

[tavalon]

41. TV

The new opiate of the masses.

[kineneb]

44. timeline note: crash in 1929, depression in 1933- 4 yr lag

It took about 4 years for all the effects to be felt. We are only in year 1 or 2.

[Zynx]

58. You might want to check up on that.

The Depression, as best as we can tell, began in earnest in August-September 1929. By mid 1930 we were already in full blown crisis. Unemployment average 8.7% for that whole year. Thousands of banks failed. Prices started falling dramatically as did wages. We're not at that point.

[kineneb]

62. true, but...

Our real unemployment rate (as opposed to the doctored gov. stats) is probably around 12-13%, and much higher in some places. The only thing that has forstalled bank failures is the Fed proping up the markets.

Manure is just meeting ventilator; more to come.

[LongTomH]

69. Kinneb, what's the source for your graph?

I'm not arguing, I want to use those figures in my own articles / maillist.

[kineneb]

81. Shadow Government Stats

Lots more graphs and info, some requires a paid subscription, but much is free.

http://www.shadowstats.com/

[Radical Activist]

45. Bill Clinton's telecommunications act.

It put the media in control of a few people who will make sure people never get crazy ideas about popular revolt.

[Kitty Herder]

46. People feel powerless.

And they fear the wrath of the state. That is a powerful deterrent. They see what happens to those who step out of line even a little bit, like that kid who was tasered for asking John Kerry questions. They know that even peaceful protests are often met with cops in riot gear, with tear gas, rubber bullets, truncheons, and ever-present threat of deadly force.

Paradoxically, they've also been carefully trained to identify more with the oppressors than with their own interests. Cop shows on T.V. where the cops are always right help with that. So does the ridicule of groups like Code Pink and the demonization of the poor, the homeless, racial minorities, etc.

[loyalsister]

47. Dig deeper

I would argue that "revolt" is expressed differently today. Maybe in the form of the more politically correct- advocacy.
It is the mobilization operations that various non-profits have in action.
Additionally, the politics that most affect most people's lives are on the state level. Check into what is going on in your state and what various advocacy groups are up to.
Any state in which abortion rights have come under attack will usually have a planned parenhood that mobilizes around local issues and even holds rallies.
It's tamer but conceptually similar.
It seems that there are only a small number of people who realize that state government is usually the appropriate target for affecting policies relevant to their personal everyday lives.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

53. How FDR Saved Capitalism

How FDR Saved Capitalism

By Seymour Martin Lipset and Gary Marks

During the economic crisis of the 1930s, many expected a socialist revolution. The revolution never came. Why? The man in the White House co-opted the left.

With the coming of the Great Depression in the 1930s, a sharp increase in protest and anticapitalist sentiment threatened to undermine the existing political system and create new political parties. The findings of diverse opinion polls, as well as the electoral support given to local radical, progressive, and prolabor candidates, indicate that a large minority of Americans were ready to back social democratic proposals. It is significant, then, that even with the growth of class consciousness in America, no national third party was able to break the duopoly of the Democratic and Republican Parties. Radicals who operated within the two-party system were often able to achieve local victories, but these accomplishments never culminated in the creation of a sustainable third party or left-wing ideological movement. The thirties dramatically demonstrated not only the power of America’s coalitional two-party system to dissuade a national third party but also the deeply antistatist, individualistic character of its electorate.

The politics of the 1930s furnishes us with an excellent example of the way the American presidential system has worked to frustrate third-party efforts. Franklin D. Roosevelt played a unique role in keeping the country politically stable during its greatest economic crisis. But he did so in classic or traditional fashion. He spent considerable time wooing those on the left. And though many leftists recognized that Roosevelt was trying to save capitalism, they could not afford to risk his defeat by supporting a national third party.

The Nation Shifts to the Left

Powerful leftist third-party movements emerged in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and New York. In other states, radicals successfully advanced alternative political movements by pursuing a strategy of running in major-party primaries. In California, Upton Sinclair, who had run as a Socialist for governor in 1932 and received 50,000 votes, organized the End Poverty in California (EPIC) movement, which won a majority in the 1934 Democratic gubernatorial primaries. He was defeated after a bitter business-financed campaign in the general election, though he secured more than 900,000 votes (37 percent of the total). By 1938, former EPIC leaders had captured the California governorship and a U.S. Senate seat.

In Washington and Oregon, the Commonwealth Federations, patterning themselves after the social democratic Cooperative Commonwealth Federation of Canada, won a number of state and congressional posts and controlled the state Democratic Parties for several years. In North Dakota, the revived radical Nonpartisan League, still operating within the Republican Party, won the governorship, a U.S. Senate seat, and both congressional seats in 1932 and continued to win other elections throughout the decade. In Minnesota, the Farmer-Labor Party captured the governorship and five house seats. Wisconsin, too, witnessed an electorally powerful Progressive Party backed by the Socialists.

...

http://www.hoover.org/publications/digest/4512566.html

[lonestarnot]

60. So you think that these same political tactics will be employed to challenge the shock and awe of

the status quo, coopting of the Friedman Chicago weeds that have sprung up? Even drought does not kill the damn weeds.

[bobbolink]

63. It's been working for quite a while. How important is poverty on DU?

I rest my case.

:cry:

[lonestarnot]

75. Depends upon the day and to whom you address the concern.

[bobbolink]

78. Sorry, no. It doesn't depend on anything. Poverty is ALWAYS much less

important that the candidate d'jour, the latest outrage of the misadministration, voting machines, political scandals, "DUing this poll", etc etc et.

Nope, doesn't depend on the day at all.

[OnyxCollie]

54. Blackwater. nt

[LanternWaste]

55. X-Boxes and I-Pods. The neo-opiates of the masses

"What's holding it off now?"

X-Boxes and I-Pods. The neo-opiates of the masses.

Drop out, turn on, and level up...

[genie_weenie]

61. Fear and the trickle down prosperity

Americans feel even with absurd gas prices, no health coverage, rising food costs, job out-sourcing, flag pins, that they are doing well, even if the Bush Cheney cabal are pilfering TRILLIONS into the hands of the richest few...

And then the knowledge you can be detained and tortured at whim (ala Naomi Wolfs 10 Totalitarian Steps) help out.

[lonestarnot]

76. Yes, the torture factor.

[femrap]

70. Not enough people

have lost their jobs or are hungry enough.....YET.

[Two Americas]

73. a small faction

The ascendancy of those who are "socially liberal, economically conservative" to almost complete control over the narrative on the left and power within the Democratic party is what is holding the conditions in place.

There is nothing unusual or surprising about what the Republicans are doing - representing the interests of the wealthy and powerful few. Their success recently is a measure of the lack of any opposition, not the rise of anything new or unexpected.

60-80% of the general public supports left wing politics, once you get past the "culture war issues" and those culture war issues would have no strength or importance were liberal activists not so determined to battle on those first and foremost.

It is not the people, nor the right wingers who have changed, and blaming either of them for the state of the country is at best avoiding the truth. It is the left and the Democratic party that have changed, and it is a very small percentage of the population who are responsible for that - maybe 10%. The party and liberalism have become a weekend hobby activity for the upscale and "progressive" few who seek to remake the culture, rather than advance traditional left wing politics. They are in fact deeply conservative on issues of economics and power - who has power and wealth, and who doesn't, and why.

[lonestarnot]

77. Most assuredly, we are in agreement!

[judasdisney]

87. Dead Unionization

Mobilized resentment
Political division
Dirty War techniques of torture (and in a couple of years, widespread Padilla-ization: disappearance)
Misinformation & Disinformation
Orchestration of a campaign of class warfare & ultimate serfdom