Did the FLDS hire a PR firm?

[ColbertWatcher]

The men get on TV to explain their side of the story...of child molestation...the women hold a fashion show and explain how their clothes reinforce their "faith"...and how they're not American burqas.

Am I the only one who thinks all these news stories coming out lately about this Texas cult a little strange?

[murielm99]

1. They have lawyers.

Their lawyers are probably telling them exactly what to say and do. It is not hard for them to follow these orders. They are used to taking orders. And from what I have read, the FLDS members in Texas are the ones chosen and favored by Jeffs.

They think anything outside their communities is evil. I bet they have had past discussions on how to present themselves in this type of confrontation with the "outside."

[ColbertWatcher]

2. If everything outside the cult is evil...

...are some of their members lawyers?

And who is paying for these lawyers?

[murielm99]

3. Good questions. They are very wealthy.

They have government contracts. They have numerous women and children who are getting welfare. Those checks are not given to the women and children, but are instead banked by the men in the community.

I have seen the lawyers in the news stories. I don't know if the women and children have court appointed lawyers or not. These asshats certainly can pay for their own legal counsel. But each child will have a lawyer and a child advocate in court. I haven't read or heard that Texas is complaining about the legal costs, so maybe the FLDS is actually footing the bill.

[ColbertWatcher]

4. GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS!?

For what?

What service do they provide? It's not some "Faith-based" crap is it? Are they running a "Christian school"?

The more I learn about this cult, the more I hate this administration.

[murielm99]

5. Defense contracts worth millions,

contracts from the Las Vegas Valley Water District (at least the ones in Nevada got those).

They own huge construction companies. They can employ all the men and teenage boys in the cult and pay them peanuts, or whatever they please.

They don't exploit only women and children. They exploit their own adult males and us, through welfare fraud and contracts paid for with our tax dollars.

[ColbertWatcher]

6. Defense contracts with a municipal water district.

I. Am. Floored.

No wonder they hired lawyers.

[murielm99]

7. I don't know about defense contracts with a municipal

water district. I am pretty sure that those were separate contracts. But they get as many government contracts as they can, by doing construction. That is one of their best sources of income.

[ColbertWatcher]

8. So, faith-based stuff is not limited to education.

Exactly how were they the most qualified?

Sorry, to ask so many questions, but this is a message board and this story fascinated me to no end.

The Taliban, in America, in the 21st century, basically being subsidized by the government.

[murielm99]

9. Who says they were the most qualified?

Maybe they were. Maybe they were the most competitive, cost-wise.

Or maybe it has something to do with all the law enforcement and local government officials in some areas being members of the cult. They do that, too. In one of their cities, Hilldale, I think, they took over the school district and closed it down. They told their members to home school all the children. Then they used the money from the school district to buy airplanes.

[ColbertWatcher]

10. American Taliban, indeed. n/t

[uppityperson]

34. Yup, that is how they strike me also. More I read, more I see Taliban.

at least they've limited themselves to a large compound of people rather than a whole country, state, or even county yet.

[Occulus]

23. Is the pay their "employees" receive

tax exempt?

[Hamlette]

19. government contracts? closed down the school district? welfare?

I've worked with the Hilldale Colorado city clan and other Utah polygamy groups for years. I'm part of an interstate task force of law enforcement and governmental agencies trying to address the needs of the groups and the problems they cause.

Some facts:

government contracts are not so easy for them to get or keep, at least not federal ones. I'd be surprised if they had many/any. (They would have to prove they abide by all federal laws, including anti discrimination laws, and open up their books to government auditors. Some polygamist groups could probably withstand that type of audit/scrutiny. Not the Hilldale/Colorado City group, at least not for the last several years.)

I know of NO money they get from from faith based legislation/funds. None. If they were getting any from Utah, Arizona or Texas I'm faily sure I'd know about it.

They get food stamps and medicaid but no cash assistance. At least not for long. There is a 3-5 year life time limit on cash welfare. Most of them used it all up years ago.

The Hilldale/Colorado City group "took over" the school district (by voting in their own members) and did tend to milk off some money. Then the group split and started a second school district. And yes, the school district bought a plane and got the FAA to build them an airstrip.

They also got child care from Arizona (Utah cut it off many years ago, AZ cut it off a few years ago, it was not long after that they moved to Texas. Texas knew of many of their "welfare" scams and I don't think they allowed many of them from the start. We'll always pay food stamps and medical because its kids.)

They are rumored to have a $400 million "trust". My guess is most of this is really the value of land as all of the land is owned by the group.

They do believe in bleeding the beast (the government) but some of these accusastions are off the mark. They do have some construction companies but I don't know of any government contracts they have.

[ColbertWatcher]

21. Interesting.

Links would be helpful.

[Hamlette]

24. here's some

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/0812coloradocity12.html
http://www.auditorgen.state.az.us/reports/school_districts/Districts/Colorado%20City%20USD/Colorado%20City%20USD.htm
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/88285.php
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2005-12-08/news/crash-course/

You can google it. Tons of stuff out there, at least on the schools.

but there are no links that really show how governmental contracting works. You could certainly do some research on it and find to get a governmental contract you have to agree to pay minimum wage, not discriminate (even on the basis of religion which these FLDS would never agree to do) you have to bid for the contract, you are audited regularily etc. etc. etc. We bid out tons of contracts using federal money and there is no way this group could get a dime of this money.

[ColbertWatcher]

26. When it comes to the GOP...

...giving government money to so-called "religious" organizations, I wouldn't be surprised.

Thank you for the links, lots of good reading there.

[Hamlette]

28. I don't believe it for a second

I work for the welfare agency in Utah. There is no "faith based" money going to polygamous groups in this state or any where else.

The requirements do not make it possible.

You need to know these groups would NEVER subject themselves to the audit procedure or the bid procedure.

It just would never happen.

[uppityperson]

35. Thank you for that info and opinion. nt

[cornermouse]

11. You do realize that if they get these children back

the courts will be saying that children should be considered little more than chattel.

[ColbertWatcher]

12. Yes.

Which is why I don't understand the media's involvement in this.

The cult has hired a PR firm to "sell their story" to the potential jury pool via the media.

The sole purpose of these "news stories" is to garner sympathy for the cult so they can go back to doing what they were doing before they were caught.

[cornermouse]

13. Around here, they're debating it on the grounds of the

Constitution of all things (they appear to favor immediately returning the children to what is most probably a highly abusive situation) while ignoring the fact that Bush has already negated or nullified some rather important parts of the Constitution. The addition of the PR firm makes the whole situation even more bizarre.

[ColbertWatcher]

16. I don't kniow if they've hired a PR firm...

...I'm asking.

I honestly don't know and it seemed kinda fishy to me that they could so easily hit several TV shows and get so much PR without one.

[cornermouse]

17. I can't find it but I think CBS mentioned that the fdls has hired a pr firm

this morning.

[ColbertWatcher]

18. Huh. I didn't see that, but I kinda figured it was so.

Thanks for posting, I may google that later.

[Hamlette]

20. there will be no jury in this case

child welfare cases do not go to the jury, it will be decided by a judge.

If they hired a PR firm, its a little late. The stuff on CNN last week with the women looking and acting and sounding like zombies pretty much sealed their fate in the public's mind IMHO.

Before that, I actually didn't know which way public opinion would go. We've done a few cases here in Utah and public opinion eventually sides with the polygamists.

After Larry King and the women last week I'm not sure they will side with the polygamists this time.

Espeically in Texas where you don't have mormon guilt/freedom of religion powering feelings.

[ColbertWatcher]

27. You don't think any of the adults will be charged with anything? n/t

[Hamlette]

31. maybe, a few of the men, but that's the least of their problems right now

they are going to have to do it with DNA testing.

And the kids will be gone.

A much worse "punishment" than a few months or years in prison.

It is a very difficult problem. We put Tom Green in prison for 5 years. His 5 wives and 30 kids were worse off then before.

It is a horrible life style and I think we should prosecute them but it just causes them to move (we cracked down here in Utah and AZ, they moved to Texas. They are in Mexico and Canada too. The question does not have a clear answer. These people are of a different culture. It would be like going in to Amish country and breaking families up.)

[High Plains]

36. Give me a fucking break!!

You've got the cops and the Texas CPS doing news conference after news conference, leaking bogus shit like the "cyanide poisoning doucment," you've got a whole industry of cult-killers mouthing off on national television, and you're complaining because these people--who just lost their children to the state--want to get their side of the story out? Give me a fucking breaks.

Why don't you and the rest of the lynch mob just cut to the chase and BURN THE WITCHES NOW!!

[Kitty Herder]

14. Maybe the same firm the regular LDS church uses with it's patented HeartSell technology.

(Tongue-in-cheek. I don't think it's patented.)

http://blog.mrm.org/2007/06/strategic-emotional-advertising/

[ColbertWatcher]

15. I have heard this before...

“Long after people forget what they hear, they remember how they feel."

But, I heard that people sometimes forget where they heard things and will misattribute bad info to good sources.

[Hamlette]

22. there is no way the LDS church's PR firm would represent these people

the LDS chuch owns its own PR firm and would/will do everything in its power to get away from any association with polygamy groups.

Honest. Nothing. Not even behind the scenes. The LDS church HATES that the polygamists make them look so nutty. The LDS church wants to be seen as mainstream.

[kestrel91316]

25. IMHO the LDS church is all about appearances. They want to be SEEN

as mainstream. Don't mistake that for one minute for a desire to actually BE mainstream.

The LDS church is deeply into secrecy, and one wonders what they are hiding. IMHO they are hiding, among other things, a desire to return to the original Mormonism complete with polygamy and blood atonement. They just know they can't get away with that right now.

And what the hell is with the snapping up of all the early historical documents of the Mormon pioneers, and locking them up so researchers can't see them? (totally OT, I know). I happen to think my g-g-g-grandfather had a journal (they ALL did back then), and the LDS got ahold of it, and now his descendants will never know its contents (because it totally corroborates what he claimed in his autobiography, I bet). They are SOOOO secretive.

[Hamlette]

29. nonsense

the mormon church loves money more than anything else. They can't get that if they are marginalized. They want to be mainstream.

I've lived with these people for 58 years. There are many things to dislike about them but there is no way they want to go back to polygamy.

[kestrel91316]

32. They will get money as long as they LOOK mainstream.

They are the most theocratic of all American churches. If they ever got control of more than Utah, the US as we know it would be toast.

[Kitty Herder]

37. Do you know many Mormon males?

They just salivate thinking about the return of polygamy in the Last Days or of their future harem in the Celestial Kingdom.

Yes, they love money and yes, they want to be mainstream. But every Mormon knows that they never gave up polygamy for good.

[TaffyMoon]

39. the LDS press is very sympathetic

Check out the Salt Lake City Deseret News (mormon owned). They are very sympathetic to the FDLS. I think they are torn...:tinfoilhat:

[ruiner4u]

30. they need PR for their magic underpants

[ColbertWatcher]

33. They don't look magical to me...

...if you were in PR, how would you hype them?

[TaffyMoon]

38. They'll get the kids and disappear into Mexico (or Canada)

Yeah, they'll do anything to get those kids back, and then, bam, they'll be gone and no-one will ever find those kids.

:nopity: