Does anyone recall it ever having been this bad before?

[Stinky The Clown]

That's not a rhetorical question.

Energy prices are through the roof.

Food prices are right behind.

Real wages fell and unemployment is on the rise. Underemployment is at a crisis level.

Housing prices are still high, but mortgages are harder to come by.

Investments of all sorts have gone south for the little guy.

The wealth disparity has grown from a gap to a chasm.

Our health care system is irreparably broken.

Our life expectancy is starting to actually creep a bit downward.

Brotherly love has morphed into hatred for anyone or anything this isn't like you or doesn't agree with you. This has grown to encompass not only social interactions, but politics, too. My way or the highway thinking. Even within the same political party.

The planet may already be beyond saving.

War seems to be 'the answer' of late.

The only economic bright spot is in producing war materials.

You are unable to travel without submitting to a checkpoint where you are accosted for 'your papers' and then given a physical body search.

Many pubic buildings now require those same 'papers' of you simply to enter.

Your bank is reporting everything you do to Big Brother.

So are your internet, telephone, and cable television providers.

Your government is openly and unashamedly spying on you.

You can be held without charges.

The citizenry has been placed into a institutionally induced stupor of television and inane sports.

These are all insults to the body social. Grave insults. Debilitating and demoralizing insults.

These are what passes for normal life today.

Can anyone recall a worse time?










Sure we can point to the gas lines of the 70s and the high interest rates of the Carter years. We can point to rationing in WWII. We can even point to The Great Depression.

I don't think any of those times were, cumulatively, nearly as bad as today. While we saw gas lines, we were still free to make telephone calls privately and to go where we wanted and to hold a protest sign right up front in sight of the President. In the Viet Nam War era, we knew what was going on and eventually we were able to effect change. Now it is institutionally-induced apathy that prevails.

Really ...... can anyone recall a worse time?

[BigDaddy44]

1. Read up about World War I

You think things are bad for a surveillance standpoint now? Read up about World War I. President Wilson SEVERELY curtailed civil liberties. People were rounded up and deported for no reason at all. Newspapers were shut down. Meetings were broken up, and people arrested. Its really quite shocking when you read the history.

Thats to say nothing of the fear, mistrust, paranoia, shortages and other problems that we faced from 1917 - 1918.

[Kaleva]

11. I think the Civil War was worse

Habeas Corpus was suspended, newspapers were shut down and editors arrested, anti-draft protesters were gunned down in the streets by Federal troops, there were race riots, the Robber Barons who funded and supplied the war got filthy rich while the poor struggled daily, the well off could buy their way out of the draft, the military arrested and tried civilians, and I think one member of Congress was deported for being against the war.

To oppose the War back then required one really big set of brass balls.

[trotsky]

32. So would you say that Democrats are more dangerous than Republicans

when it comes to curtailing civil liberties?

[ananda]

2. agree, it's critical

I think that all the bad things you list
are not only bad in themselves but also
serve as harbingers for catastrophes and
extinction in the not too distant future.

I just don't know what to say or feel at
this point.

Do I get depressed and angry and suffer
endlessly till death? Or do I just throw
up my hands in utter despair and joy at
being alive at all and just say Carpe Diem?

[mwb970]

3. This is the worst I've seen personally (at 58).

And I gather it is going to get worse! I weep for the future.

Having the worthless bush and cheney hastening our demise makes it all the sadder. Of all times to have the worst administration in our history! Thanks a lot, bush voters.

[Carni]

16. What galls me is the bush voters...

Aren't the ones who have had to suffer for the last however many years...

I railed against a bush admin from the day I learned he was in the GOP primaries but NO ONE in my circle of freinds and family would listen...even the liberals I knew would not listen and just claimed that both parties were the same bla bla bla.

Yes, this is the worst I have ever personally lived through and I am 44.

If only the stupid morons who voted for bush or those who didn't vote would have listened in 2000!

[mikita]

4. Frankly, NO

I would only disagree with one point -- I believe the planet is beyond saving already.

For those who think "the pendulum swings ...", and "we've been thru bad times before", yada yada....

What about our environment --- Mother Nature bats last.

Mikita

[appal_jack]

37. I see that you are a neighbor...

:hi:

Do you think that there is any hope for the southern Appalachians (aka Katuah) as a bioregion? Our mountain climate is where many plants and animals from up north managed to survive the last ice age. My best-case scenario for the near future is that the people who live here (i.e.- us and our friends and neighbors) help each other out as best we can through the difficult times ahead, while also reversing as much of the damage done to our local environment as possible. If we steward and care for our forests and ag. lands, we may come through the coming extinctions and other shifts with something resembling a functional local ecosystem. Then maybe, just maybe, we can propagate what we have saved to feed ourselves, and also re-vegetate the denuded earth that will likely surround us...

Ah, what cheerful thoughts we are having on this earth day!

You are of course correct that nature bats last. Our survival is by no means mandatory, however ardently some humans may believe that we are a 'chosen people' or other such nonsense. Nonetheless, I will not let the earth around me die without a fight...

-app

[0007]

5. I was hardly eating during the great depression. Yes, I remember!

[madokie]

6. I thought the gas line era of the Carter years were bad

Today I can't see how young people who aren't yet making top wages are getting by.

[asjr]

7. I can honestly say in my time

I have never seen it this bad and it seems to be getting much worse by the day. I was born in 1932, lived through the Depression, WW2 (which seems now to have been a walk in the park), and gas lines in the 70s. I used to see the "glass half full". Frankly, I think the glass is completely empty. I worry for my children, grandchildren, sister, everyone in the family. I sometimes think Lord, take me tonight. I don't think I can manage to live through this. My son-in law travels 40 miles roundtrip to work daily and it is costing him $200.00 a month for gasoline. There are many foreclosures here and the more there are the more renters jack up the price of their houses. No one can tell me not to worry, it will get better. I know it will not.

[crikkett]

24. .

:hug:

We lost so much common sense in such a short time, didn't we?

[MNDemNY]

8. The 1980's

[Breeze54]

9. Yes....

Nixon, Raygun, Bush 2001, ....

[zeemike]

10. you are right it is the worst ever

Not only in my life time but in history.
Things were bad in the great depression where people went hungry but even then there were some bright spots, like people actually looking out for each other.

[sinkingfeeling]

12. Mid-1970's saw huge inflation, mortgage rates up to 17% APR, gas rationing, and

world-wide shortages of food.

[OwnedByFerrets]

21. But we still had our democracy and

hope of a brighter future.

[RebelOne]

29. No gas rationing in the mid-70s, just gas shortages.

[sinkingfeeling]

33. It was a form of rationing: buying gas only on certain days based on your license number.

[Stinky The Clown]

34. I agree ..... it was de facto rationing

They never used the term that I can recall, but the effect was pretty much the same.

That was our early wake-up call. But we just hit the snooze button.

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. Depression must have been bad.

Children of the depression still eat everything off their plate because they remember going through long period without food.

[Marrah_G]

14. I think we feel it is the worst because we are in it

People have a romantic view of history. In the scheme of things, as a people things are better for us now, with the exception of a few areas, privacy being a big one.

[Sheets of Easter]

31. You nailed it.

The variables may change, but there were many dark times in our history. Not to say that we're bad off now (we are), but I wouldn't call it the worst.

[Triana]

15. Nope. And my Mom who lived through the depression says she's never seen it..

....this bad.

I was listening to the radio this morning about the food problem, and gas prices, and climate change and the housing market and...

Ugh.

[Occulus]

17. I know it's a typo, but I just love funny ones:

"Many pubic buildings now require those same 'papers' of you simply to enter."

Oh. MY. And I bet they're full of really crabby people, too.

:D

[gatorboy]

18. I heard that Black Plague stuff sucked.

But seriously it does worry me. I worry about me kids growing up in a world sucked dry by the generation before them.

[crikkett]

26. LOL

AIDS was scary as hell when nobody knew what it was.

[Fovea]

19. Bad but different

1968 was pretty damn grim.

The Democratic convention organizers failed to understand how torn the whole country had become over Vietnam. It found out. It was an interesting time, but was almost amusing considering what had already gone down.

"Let the sunshine in, let the sunshine in, the sunshine in."
Ft. Hood, by M. Doughty off Golden Delicious quoting Aquarius.

[OwnedByFerrets]

20. Not in my lifetime.....

Im 51 and things were never this bad. Hope is fading fast.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

22. Plenty of harsh times in human history but these days there's so many different >>>>>

>>>> problems and the shitstorm just never ends. It's some other problem or two every day.

It could have been such a different world.

[progressoid]

23. Yes and No.

In terms of national standards (health, wealth, etc), I think we peaked in the late 80's - 90's. Today's generation will see a lower standard of living than their predecessor.

Unemploy/underemployment, wages, death of the middle class. Yeah, that all sucks the big one. But I don't expect to return to the depression era just yet. And even if there is an economic collapse, we have a better infrastructure in place that will hold things together (or the Chinese, the Saudis and Hugo Chavez can bail us out).

The big brother problems...it wasn't too long ago that certain groups of US citizens were treated like enemies in their own country (Blacks, Japanese, Native Americans, etc). Now it's happening to some of us. We'll rectify it.

The planet may already be beyond saving...sort of. Civilized societies on the planet?...that's another story. It's defiantly going to get worse, but it won't become a sci-fi movie barren wasteland either. The planet will survive. If we could get people to stop squirting out babies for a while that would help.

For a usually pessimistic person, I'm hopeful (uh oh there's that word) that we and the upcoming new leadership will make a difference and turn this around. If not, I know how to brew alcohol and can drink myself into oblivion.

[Roxy66]

25. During the Reagan years I recall it being pretty dismal.

[eShirl]

27. The Arab Oil Embargo 1973-1974 (I was 9 years old)

"The immediate results of the Oil Crisis were dramatic. Prices of gasoline quadrupled, rising from just 25 cents to over a dollar in just a few months. The American Automobile Association recorded that up to twenty percent of the country’s gas stations had no fuel one week during the crisis. In some places drivers were forced to wait in line for two to three hours to get gas (Frum, p.320). The total consumption of oil in the U.S. dropped twenty percent. This was do to the effort of the public to conserve oil and money. There was an instant drop in the number of homes created with gas heat, because other forms of energy were more affordable at this time (Arab Oil Embargo of 1073-74).

"The U.S. government went to desperate measures to improve the situation that America found itself in. Congress issued a 55mph speed limit on highways. This was a good thing. Not only did oil consumption go down, but fatalities decreased overnight. Today's fuel economy stickers come from the effort to preserve oil in the 70's. Daylight savings time was issued year round in an effort to reduce electrical use. These changes were made in hopes of preserving oil. Tax credits were offered to those who developed and used alternative sources for energy (The Arab Oil Embargo of 1973-74). These included solar and wind power. Nixon, who was president at that time, ordered the department of defense to create a stockpile of oil in case the country needed the military to carry it through a time of chaos. There was a large cutback in oil consumption. Emergency rationing books were printed although they were never necessary due to the end of the embargo. Nixon formed the Energy57526021.jpg (3183 bytes) Department and it became a cabinet office. It developed the national energy policy. They made plans to make the U.S. energy independent (The Arab Oil Embargo of 1973-74).

"Gasoline companies and stations also did all that they could to preserve oil. Nixon had issued a voluntary cutback on the consumption of gasoline. Gas stations would voluntarily close on Sundays. They refused to sell to customers who weren't "regulars." Gas stations also wouldn't sell more than ten gallons of gasoline to a customer at a time. They felt that these efforts would help the public to become more fuel-efficient (The Arab Oil Embargo of 1973-74).

"The public helped to retain energy as well. Families turned their thermostats down to sixty-five degrees. The rise in oil prices also caused the public to be more fuel-efficient. Companies and industries switched their energy source to coal (The Arab Oil Embargo of 1973-74). People searched for alternative energy sources. People traded their mammoth cars that had thoughtlessly been speeded down highways to over-heated homes in the suburbs for smaller more fuel-efficient models (Spiegelman)."

http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/History/MidEast/04/horton/horton.htm

[Career Prole]

28. Nope...and as much as I love my kids and grandkids

I'm sorry I've subjected them to what's coming. I'd like to believe humankind will find the answers before it's too late but between the greed and the apathy I don't see it happening.

I always thought our "leaders" knew like that even if the Earth was a hollow ball filled with oil it'd still run out someday and that they'd surely come up with a remedy sooner than now and wiser than putting our ever-more-vital foodcrops in the gas tank.

Serves me right for trusting.

[Blue_In_AK]

30. On a personal level

things have been much, much worse for me in the past, but on a national level, it's been a nightmare.

[Brigid]

35. No, I can't.

You're right. Thanks a lot George. :eyes:

[catnhatnh]

36. Nope-and that's because of the wide spectrum of problems....

...many of which you name, and the fact that so large a percentage of us are affected....
...in most cases cited by other posters a single correction would improve almost every problem.The abuses of civil rights cited during the civil war and WW1 merely needed the wars to be concluded. The Great Depression only required FDR. But to believe the country can return to a good and healthy track would now require nine major initiatives all to be achieved simultaneously....

1. "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" needs to meet and marry FDR's four freedoms....We need to absolutely guarantee food, housing and health care to every American and further to immigrants here.

2.Constitutional abuses must end and those responsible must be tried and punished.

3.The war must be ended immediately.The US should be liable for repairing the damage caused.The US should encourage and cooperate in War Crimes trials before the world court.

4.The energy debacle must be faced NOW. To steal the phrasing from a famous quote "In a very real sense, each quart of oil not dedicated to the production of sustainable energy producing equipment, is theft.".

5.We must recognize that our infrastructure and utilities and transportation ARE the Commons and reestablish the regulation of them.Reagan be damned-if the government has a say in licensing or chartering (thereby limiting competition) then it bloody well has a responsibility to make it behave responsibly.Otherwise it is merely handing boons to cronies.

6.The arrogance of power and wealth must be confronted-a starlet caught with crack or a politician caught with their paw in the cookie jar are NOT "punished enough" by their "public shame".They are punished enough when they receive the same jail sentence a black male teenager would.

7.The war against drugs must be severely curtailed...a war against crabgrass is costly, tiring, and doomed to fail-plus it only ever effected the crabgrass in plain sight. Legalize marijuana now.Decriminalize most "possession" type charges.

8.We need a "Financial Fairness Commission" to study and legislate our entire banking, investment, wage, and tax policies.They should start from square one and as each new set of regulations are brought on line, the last hundred years of obscure and arcane loopholes and subsidies and multi-thousand page tax codes should be abolished.

9.Ethics in Washington should not be an oxymoron...Lobbyist should not write legislation and the revolving door that makes politicians lobbyists and lobbyists politicians must be bolted closed.Bills before the legislative branch should be written in plain english and parliamentary procedures overhauled until the average US high school graduate is capable of tuning in C-span and understanding clearly what is being voted on and who is supporting it or opposing it....Any ethics violation should cause the guilty party to be barred from life from holding any governmental position either paid or unpaid.


I was tempted to add a tenth initiative just because ten is a nice even number for lists and it would be easy enough to do...number ten could be about gay rights or police abuse, or supporting medical or scientific research or oh so many others....but that's beside the point.

The point is that over the course of forty years and four particularly bad Republican presidents (Nixon, Reagan, Bush1, Bush2) the Republic we had each cherished has been systemically torn down and perverted to what we have today...what Nixon started in extralegal secrecy, what Reagan started in turning loose econopaths thru deregulation, what Bush1 started in unifying a Republican WOS (world operating system), all of this has been slammed home in the culmination that is Bush2-the open announcement that A. We won. B.You lost. C.Get over it.

I told you we have a lot of work to do...I just wonder if we have the willpower.