Will Bush preemptively pardon himself and his adminstration before he leaves office?

[Orrex]

[hobbit709]

1. He's that stupid and arrogant enough

[Pierre.Suave]

2. Can he do that?

Or is he hoping John McCain wins so he can have him pardon everybody?

[bdamomma]

10. well john has already said he does not find this administration

criminal. makes you want to do this :puke:

[Cary]

3. At least one thing about such a move would be interesting.

Accepting a pardon is tantamount to an admission of guilt.

[madokie]

4. He'll prolly try

not sure there is pardons for war crimes though. I know there are other countries who will no honor one if he did. bushco will be hunted down and dealt with like the war criminals they are.

[elizfeelinggreat]

7. Good point

I wonder if he put a pardon for war crimes into one of his signing statements?

[madokie]

11. which brings to mind reply # 5

which is how I see it too

[Richard Steele]

5. I can't answer, because I have no confidence that they'll even LEAVE.

People who've gone to such lengths to seize power illegally
don't generally hand it back voluntarily.

[Orrex]

8. That's been a recurring scenario in my nightmares for several weeks

It would be an interesting turn of events, to say the least.

[Pierre.Suave]

12. That is also my nightmare scenario

I do not think it is unlikely either.

[UpAgainstTheWall]

6. Of course!

People are salivating for a Bush war crimes trial. Of course he's going to pardon himself.

[orleans]

9. i don't think you can pardon yourself (unless you burp or fart) n/t

[CBGLuthier]

15. Most constitutional experts think a president CAN pardon himself

There is nothing in the clause that grants the power that would prohibit self pardoning.

[bigmonkey]

18. In my opinion the Supreme Court should clarify this.

Well, a non-corrupt Supreme court. It seems to me the normal understanding is that someone can only be pardoned if they have been convicted of a crime. This "preemptive pardon" stuff started with Ford, and it should stop. The reasons for instituting the pardon in the Constitution are answered sufficiently by pardons that follow convictions. If you want a quick resolution, say in the aftermath of an actual "Jack Bauer" situation (and I think such a thing actually happening is remote at best), just confess guilt and get the pardon. This maintains an ability to avoid tragic punishment of such "heroics," while leaving a clear demarcation between what the law says and what it doesn't - in other words it maintains the rule of law which this "preemptive pardon" nonsense muddies up.

[Gman]

13. People will be severely shocked

at the breadth of the pardons when they're pardons. And nothing shocks anyone anymore. But this will. The list will number 250 and maybe up to 500. Maybe more.

[onehandle]

14. No, but he wil pardon everyone else. And he will never be prosecuted.

Not by Obama. Not by Hillary.

[JDPriestly]

16. Just in general? Or for specific illegal acts?

The pardon them all "just in general" approach probably wouldn't work. The law doesn't like "just in general." On the other hand, it would be highly embarrassing and, frankly, impractical for him to list every single crime of every single one of his accomplices in his administration. That kind of admission of wrongdoing would be unique in the history of mankind. Outgoing leaders simply don't write themselves epitaphs that suggest that they surrounded themselves with criminals while in power, much less that they themselves were criminals. It doesn't read well in the history books. Further, Bush probably does not even admit to his dog that he and his accomplices did nothing but run a scam for the last seven years.

And there is one more thing: the Constitution gives the president to grant pardons except in cases of impeachment. But who would grant a pardon to Bush? Do you realize that if he pardons all his co-conspirators, then they can't plead the Fifth? Should he grant such a pardon, he alone would be left to face the accusations. No, I don't think Bush will pardon all of his partners in crime. Can you imagine the bestsellers they would write? It would create a sensation, and people would demand Bush's indictment. No. That would leave him the sole defendant should justice ever be sought.

I think Bush will figure that he doesn't need to pardon anyone. I think he will count on the fact that Americans have short memories, don't know or care about history, and that the next president will be more concerned about his or her legacy and consolidating his or her power than righting the wrongs of the Bush cronies. Isn't that why Bush's friends in the news media made sure that Edwards would not be running. He was the only one with the guts to go after wrongdoers. He was the only one with the knowledge of the law and skill to see to it that justice be served. He was the only one made enough to take the Bush scoundrels to court.

I haven't heard either Obama or Hillary talk about anything that would suggest they even realize that the Bush bunch are criminals. Besides, by just sitting and voting in the Senate, Hillary and Obama are to some extent co-conspirators themselves.

[rsdsharp]

19. The pardons don't need to specify crimes.

Here is the operative language of Ford's pardon of Nixon:

Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9,1974.

That's about as general as it can get. I am virtually certain that Bush will issue similar pardons to much of his administration. It would not surprise me if he resigns on the morning of January 20th, and Cheney then pardons him, just to get around the question of whether he can pardon himself.

[bigmonkey]

17. Voted for number 1, but ...

Hoping for number 3.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. Is the pope Catholic?

[Johonny]

21. It's possible he's so stupid

He'll forget to sign the pardons. Either way he'll pardon himself from Dallas long after he's president. Hey he WAS president that means he can still pardon in Republican world.