Freepers or, Lay Off That Stuff Guys, It'll Kill Yah!

[Pamela Troy]

“is there a Tony Snow’s tumor appreciation thread? I hope his tumor makes a full recovery from that bad case of Tony it’s got.”

From a DU thread on Tony Snow’s recent trip to the hospital

It’s one thing to blurt out something hateful on the spur of the moment -- to say “good” after hearing news of some personal tragedy striking a public figure you despise.

It’s another thing to sit down and write something celebrating such a tragedy, proofread it, and then hit the send button so that it’s posted on a public forum.

And it’s quite another thing to embrace hatred in this manner, and attack anyone who refuses to join in.

The current freepification of political rhetoric is understandable on an intellectual level in the same way that intoxication is understandable. We’ve all seen at some point in our lives the person who’s had a few too many and who truly believes that he or she is being funny and/or brave, and/or brilliant. Such drunks will often get belligerent with anyone who tries to get them to sit down, shut up, and eat something. And if you dare to touch their bottles or put a full glass out of their reach – well, they sometimes have to be physically restrained from smacking you. You are now officially their enemy.

Not so long ago getting drunk on hatred was mainly the province of people who posted to sites like Free Republic or Little Green Footballs. Unfortunately, quite a few people on the left side of the political equation have apparently watched Freepers post on subjects like the death of Paul Wellstone, Rachel Corrie, and Marla Ruzicka, and, instead of being revolted, have been envious. “Kewel!” they’ve exclaimed. “We should do that!”

And so they ran out and bought themselves case of the same stuff, guzzled it down, and are now staggering around the blogosphere slurring their words, waving their fists, and throwing up on anyone who gets in their way. They are distinguishable from Freepers only because they insert the names of right-wingers or perceived right-wingers in the places where Freepers would insert the names of liberals or perceived liberals. And to make the spectacle truly pathetic, they seem to fondly imagine themselves as courageous defenders of their cause, tough hombres contemptuously brushing aside all those weak namby-pambys who draw the line at gloating about a man quite possibly dying from cancer.

One of the side effects of hate intoxication is a blurring of vision, an inability to perceive nuance. Objecting to their behavior is instantly interpreted as praise for the individual they’ve attacked. “Wassamatta wid you” they ask, focusing blearily on the person who’s just objected to Hillary Clinton being called a “fucking whore” or has expressed the hope for Tony Snow’s recovery. “You some kinda big fanna Bush? You think you’re some kinda high and mighty saint?” Frequently they’ll launch into imitations, miming attempts at common decency. “Oh, geeze, poooooooor so-and-so! He just got rushed to the hospital! Ima gonna cry!” Then, “Nope!” they’ll declare triumphantly, with all the archness of that man at the end of the bar who’s had four strong martinis and thinks he’s being cute, “the tears just ain’t cummin. I’m a baaad, baaaaaaad person!”

Another symptom is a queasiness that’s at odds with the macho stance these guys frequently adopt. One minute they’re marching about unshaven, an ammo belt draped over their chest, a cigar stub clenched in their gritted teeth, railing about all those squeamish sissies who don’t courageously join in cheering some horrific personal tragedy striking either a Republican or a perceived Republican. The next minute they’re asking to be excused because, faced with the statement that the Republican or perceived Republican is a human being, Sergeant Rock’s tummy has gone all flopsie and he has to go upchuck in the bushes.

Sorry to spoil the fun guys, but you really need to lay off that stuff. It’ll kill ya. Yes, I know, while you’re on it you feel ever so tough, ever so smart and strong and brave, but that’s just an illusion.

To anyone who’s not drinking from that bottle you look as dumb, out of control, and easily manipulated as any Freeper.

[flamin lib]

1. Thank you for that little peice of sanity. The same goes for GD-P.nt

[colonel odis]

2. well put. anyone who would make comments like that about snow, et. al., never

lost anyone they love to cancer.

[CBGLuthier]

3. I have no hatred for him

I just want him to die so the world will be a slightly better place.

I didn't tell him to work for evil men. He made himself part of the machine that is bent on destroying and murdering people across the globe.

[Mags]

5. you could not possibly stoop any lower then this. You are beyond help.

[rAVES]

23. He could support Hillary.

[Mags]

24. I guess we know what your all about, it all just a game and you think this is funny.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

29. You know what's really funny?

The inside of Tony Snow's colon.

[Pamela Troy]

31. Oh dear, you're repeating yourself.

Sorry kiddo, but it wasn't really funny the first time you said it.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

It's called running gag.

"Sorry kiddo, but it wasn't really funny the first time you said it."

Oh, I disagree. And I'm really not worried about having a sense of humor.

[Pamela Troy]

33. It's called desperation.

You DO realize, don't you, that you're providing a working demonstration of what I've described in my post?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

35. Who's desperate?

(I mean besides Tony Snow's oncologist)

I think that you think it was funny, and now you're desperately trying to come off as holier than thou.

Maybe because you feel bad.

[Pamela Troy]

I hadn't realized you were actually trying to help me out by proving my point.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

41. Oh dear, you're repeating yourself.

Generally, desperate people don't laugh this hard.

:rofl:

[Pamela Troy]

44. Actually wild laughter IS a sign of desperation.

It's also dead giveaway that the person is terrified of being laughed at.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

45. Phony laughter, sure.

But mine is entirely genuine.

:rofl:

[Pamela Troy]

47. You protest too much.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

49. Psst... Pam...

I'm not the one protesting. You started this thread.

[Pamela Troy]

52. Sure. And you're the one who seems to have such a heavy emotional

stake in hatred that you're upset over not being credited with a post that most adults would find embarrassing.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

55. Oh, I'm not really upset, Pam.

Just having a laugh.

[Pamela Troy]

58. Of COURSE you aren't!

[New Dawn]

114. LOL.

[OnyxCollie]

124. LOL! (again)

'If you're going to miss Heaven, why miss it by two inches? Miss it!'
-Sam Kinison

:evilgrin:

[zanne]

169. Cancer doesn't make Tony Snow a good guy...

But it isn't a cause for rejoicing, either.

[apocalypsehow]

98. This holier-than-thou act is a riot coming from the likes of you. n/t.

:thumbsdown:

[Pamela Troy]

108. "The likes of me?"

How so?

[Pamela Troy]

8. Oh give me a break.

Wanting someone to die because you think it would make the world a better place is the very definition of hatred.

At least have the guts to be honest about what you're embracing here.

[CBGLuthier]

161. No it isn't

For example, as a citizen of Oklahoma City, I was very happy to see Timothy Mcveigh removed from this earth. The air tasted better when I knew he was not sharing it.




I believe most of these evil peopple claim to be Christians. So I am just wishing them to be elevated to a different place and leave my earth.

[Pamela Troy]

171. And how does this not qualify as hatred?

[CBGLuthier]

230. Hell I don't know

I am just saying that hating someone and wishing them gone are not the same thing. If you can't see the difference I can't help that.

If I hated either of them, McVeigh or Snow I would imagine that I would spend time obsessing about them.

Instead I just wish them luck in whatever heaven, hell, or hole in the ground they end up in.

No hatred at all.

[Pamela Troy]

252. Despising someone so much that you wish they were gone doesn't

qualify as "hating?"

Not according to common usage of the word.

[deaniac21]

231. What does air taste like?

[Mags]

4. I couldn't agree with you more. I'm not surprised though,

DU has become the central command for hate. I think we as a community here, have stooped as low as we can. I for one have dealt with major illnesses and death of 3 family members in the last four months. I would never , ever make lite of anyone's illnesses. Cancer has no favorites . Get real people and know that when you lose compassion for others there is nothing left inside of ya.

[Barrymores Ghost]

77. Especially when talking about OBVIOUSLY "low-income" black kids asleep at an Obama rally.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5641693#5642790

You "can just tell" a poor black kid when you see one, right?

Oh.

A little less conversation, a little more compassion.

[sushi]

95. I agree!

I haven't posted for a long time. Now I find DU has so many negative and inconsiderate posters. There's no room for people who disagree with them.
I wish Tony Snow and all people who are fighting a disease the very best.

[varelse]

6. Whoa...

somebody actually posted that... here?

I'm kind of shocked. It's not what I've come to expect from this group (and NO, I'm NOT being sarcastic).

Edited to thank Pamela Troy for this excellent OP. Obviously, this was something that needed to be said, and you said it very well. Also, I'm glad I missed that thread.

[Pamela Troy]

9. Why are you shocked?

[varelse]

105. This

“is there a Tony Snow’s tumor appreciation thread? I hope his tumor makes a full recovery from that bad case of Tony it’s got.”

on DU.

That's what shocked me. I'm glad I didn't see the thread you quoted from.

[magellan]

7. I care about Tony Snow

...as much as he cares about me.

[Pamela Troy]

11. I've seen little evidence that Tony Snow would gloat over the news

that you may be dying from cancer, or even that he wouldn't object if someone in his presence gloated about you or dying from cancer.

And even if he did, it would not excuse the posts I've seen here about his illness. There is absolutely no excuse.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. Tony Snow gloats over the news of a million dead Iraqis.

Fuck him and his colon.

[Pamela Troy]

20. He shoots puppies! He bathes in the blood of baby Democrats... he...

he...urrgggh, froth, choke, burble... (pitching forward onto the keyboard in an unpleasant fit...)

[LanternWaste]

53. O-K.... now *THAT* was funny.

O-K.... now *THAT* was funny.

Good OP by the way... :hi:

[deaniac21]

232. Is this a Freudian slip?

[magellan]

22. Yeah, but then again

...I'm not a willing instrument of the criminal regime that is destroying my country. Snow may not take his role in this seriously, but I do.

I'm not here to defend or excuse what others have written on the matter. I've had a loved one die from cancer. But I'll still reserve my compassion for those who I feel deserve it, and that excludes anyone who gives BushCo a helping hand.

[Pamela Troy]

26. Ah yes, the old meme of pretending that compassion is some sort of finite

resource.

It's not. If you can feel compassion for any stranger dying of cancer, you can feel compassion for Tony Snow.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

30. Ah, that old meme again.

Pretending stick-up-the-ass posturing is the same as compassion.

[Pamela Troy]

32. You really are intent on proving my point, eh?

[magellan]

36. No, the old meme

...is that compassion has to flow from every pore to everyone regardless of who they are and what they've done. I choose to be a bit more discriminating than that when it comes to remorseless murderers and their henchmen.

[Pamela Troy]

46. Do you understand the meaning of the term "common decency?"

It covers not gloating over the misfortune of a fellow human being.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

48. Yeah, that's why we're laughing about Tony Snow's cancer.

The man's just plain indecent.

[Pamela Troy]

50. You're helping me out.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

51. I was thinking the same of you.

You set them up, I knock them down.

[Pamela Troy]

54. I set 'em up, you obligingly act out precisely what I was describing.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

57. Great, let's join up.

We can take our two-man act on the road. You make a great straight man.

[Pamela Troy]

60. No need. You've already publicly made my case for me.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

61. Ah, well, it was fun while it lasted.

We really coulda killed 'em.

Like cancer kills Tony Snow.

[JAbuchan08]

133. honestly I though most of them were in bad taste and unfunny

but that was in exceedingly bad taste and utterly hilarious.

[magellan]

59. Who's gloating?

I'm not dancing in the streets or throwing a party over the fact he's a very sick man. I didn't even smile when I heard the news, much as you may like to believe otherwise. I simply DON'T CARE ABOUT TONY SNOW. And I won't be brow-beaten into doing so.

[Pamela Troy]

68. The people posting ever so amusing "jokes" like the one quoted

Are the ones who are gloating. And you seem to have a problem with my objecting to it. Why is that?

[magellan]

74. You didn't say you were talking about OTHERS gloating

You replied to ME, so logically I concluded your accusation of gloating was directed at ME. If you wanted my opinion on what OTHERS are saying you might have asked.

Freebie: I don't agree with the gloating. But I have no control over what others write here, or their thoughts. And neither do YOU.

[Pamela Troy]

80. You still haven't explained why you seem to have a problem

with my objecting to people gloating over Snow's tragedy.

Why did you feel compelled to comment?

[magellan]

93. You aren't reading, you're just attacking anyone who disagrees with you

You accused me of gloating, which I was not doing, and when I clarified you broadened your accusation to me having a problem with you objecting to other people gloating.

:crazy:

I even said: I don't agree with the gloating. Which leaves me only one question:

:wtf: is your problem?

[magellan]

122. Oh yeah, and since it isn't obvious to you

...this is a public discussion forum. Start a thread and you're inviting others to reply. If you only want to hear voices that agree with you then I'd suggest you start your own forum.

[Pamela Troy]

253. Have I asked you to stop posting to me? Put you on ignore?

[magellan]

261. You asked

..."Why did you feel compelled to comment?"

Assuming you were referring to my original reply to your OP, I answered: It's a public forum and you invited response by posting your OP.

[Pamela Troy]

263. It's a valid question.

You presumably don't respond to every single posting here. There must be something about it that sparks the desire to comment.

[magellan]

267. I'm sorry

...but I have no idea what it is I'm supposed to defend now. Why I responded to a particular post (point it out, please), or why I responded to your OP?

[fascisthunter]

258. You Get a DUzy for that one

oy

[Pamela Troy]

260. What's a DUzy?

[mitchum]

10. Won't someone think of the worms???!!!

I mean...worms have to eat too

[Pamela Troy]

12. Lay off that Stuff. It'll kill yah.

Of course, you may be only twelve years old, in which case, isn't this a school day? Why aren't you in class?

[mitchum]

19. Worm hater!

Why do want them to starve?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. You know what's really fucked up?

The inside of Tony Snow's colon.

:hi:

[Pamela Troy]

14. Does your teacher know you're posting here instead of doing your classwork?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. Does your teacher know you've failed to contribute authorship?

I'm a humble man, but I'm at least proud of that.

[Pamela Troy]

16. In what manner have I "failed to contribute authorship?"

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

18. You failed to cite me as the author.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3194511&mesg_id=3194758

You could have at least linked it.

It's the best part of your OP.

[Pamela Troy]

21. Frankly, I thought I was doing you a favor by omitting your name.

[Mags]

25. Everyone needs to know the author, It shows what really rocks their boat.

They can get no lower, and they are proud of it.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. Hey, I show the same respect for Tony Snow...

that you show for black people over in GD:P.

[Pamela Troy]

38. Now you're reduced to apparent non-sequiturs

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

43. Sequitur this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5641693#5642790

[Ignis]

79. Well, that's pretty damning.

Pots, kettles, etc.

[Barrymores Ghost]

103. Oops. Boy, she disappeared like a flushed cat turd, didn't she? N/T

[Mags]

40. get a grip.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. Uh huh.

Maybe you should do yourself a favor and stop defending the character of Tony Snow.

[Pamela Troy]

37. LOL! Oh I get it! You've generously decided to provide a working example

of when I said:

One of the side effects of hate intoxication is a blurring of vision, an inability to perceive nuance. Objecting to their behavior is instantly interpreted as praise for the individual they’ve attacked. “Wassamatta wid you” they ask, focusing blearily on the person who’s just objected to Hillary Clinton being called a “fucking whore” or has expressed the hope for Tony Snow’s recovery. “You some kinda big fanna Bush?"

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. Posts #11 and #20.

Defense of Tony Snow's character.

:shrug:

[Pamela Troy]

62. Saying he would probably not gloat over someone dying of cancer

and making fun of the claim that he shoots puppies and bathes in the blood of baby Democrats qualifies as a "defense of Tony Snow's character?"

Wow.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

64. Well, yeah.

Do you even know who Tony Snow is? This ain't Tony Randall we're talking about.

[Pamela Troy]

67. And how man private conversations of his have you been privy to?

Sorry, but saying that, as far as I know, Tony Snow is not a callous creep who bathes in the blood of infants and gloats over people dying from cancer hardly qualifies as a ringing endorsement. It's not really even a compliment.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

As many as I've had with Joseph Goebbels.

Am I supposed to feel sorry for him too?

[Pamela Troy]

76. Now you've REALLY gone off the deep end.

[Barrymores Ghost]

102. Really? How so? What's the value of one Minister of Propoganda over another?

So the death count is a 5/1 ratio...at what point do war crimes add up to outrage and a bitter condemnation from you?

"Gee...I hope Goebbels didn't suffer too much."

[Pamela Troy]

111. I'm opposed to any human beings being mistreated.

You, on the other hand, apparently share with people like Goebbels and others of his stripe the notion that there are groups of human beings it's okay to abuse.

[Barrymores Ghost]

125. Mistreated? Abused? I'm like Goebbels?

You think Tony Snow can magically hear prayers for his demise?

You're a loon. Get help.

[Pamela Troy]

127. If you believe there are human beings whose suffering it's okay

to mock, yes, you definitely have that in common with Goebbels.

[tavalon]

110. Actually, I think he's made a very apt comparison

Whether he should or should not disparage Tony Snow. Tony Snow is to Goebbels as Bush is to Hitler.

Okay, I've invoked Hitler. May we please close up this silly thread now?

[Pamela Troy]

112. No, sorry. In order for Snow to be comparable to Goebbels,

he'd have to be much more than just one of a series of press shills. Goebbels was a very close member of Hitler's inner circle, an intellectual, an author, a charismatic speaker, and an early member of the Nazi party. Snow just doesn't compare. Nor can I imagine Snow murdering his children if the Republican candidate loses the next election.

I have nothing against comparisons with Nazis. I just ask that they be valid and indicate some understanding of the Nazis other than, "they were bad."

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

200. LOL

OK, Tony Snow is like Joseph Goebbels only less intelligent and charming.

:rofl:

[Barrymores Ghost]

202. *snark!!*

:rofl:

[Pamela Troy]

212. You again?

Guess you weren't as "bored" as you claimed.

[Pamela Troy]

211. And much less responsible for the policies of the Bush administration

than Goebbels was for the policies of the Third Reich.

Really guys, you need to read up on the Nazis before making these comparisons. Try researching them somewhere other than old Indiana Jones movies.

[magellan]

213. Did you know that Tony Snow was a freeper before he became press sec?

Talk about being an early member of the Nazi party....

[treestar]

238. So where is the line drawn here?

Why is support of the carnage in Iraq lesser in effect in some way? Just because 12 million people haven't died yet?

How many people have to die before the evil is condemnable.

We do not feel sorry for Adolph putting a bullet in his head. But we could feel compassion for Dubya if he did it, and it would be indecent not to? Why is that? Because he hasn't gotten that far yet? Or are his acts somehow less heinous, even if he were to eventually succeed in killing 12 million people?

[Pamela Troy]

254. If you look at the message you're responding to, you'll see

I didn't bring up a body count. What makes Snow different from Goebbels is his level of involvement with Bush and his level responsibility for policies in the Bush administration.

[spoony]

149. From reading his posts, I assure you

He left school at an early age and long ago.

[Rottenmac]

34. As much as I might have an inkling to agree...

I DO think there is too much ' Peace Love and Flower-Power' bullshit in the left-leaning scene. Without people to stir shit up and make people MAD, then all we would achieve is a world-wide patchouli consortium. Appeasement does not work, and neither does mincing words.

There is a difference between wishing death on someone, and relishing the pain and suffering of someone who KNOWINGLY lied and spread the Bush agenda without blinking or having second thoughts.

I do wish Tony looks Death and God and whatever in the face and sees the idiotic choices he has made, and how his spreading of the Bush propaganda has cost us more than just the lives of our soldiers. I do wish that on him and if he is even then not repentant and still tows the party line, then yes I do want him to suffer. He owes the people who died for a plethora of lies that he helped propagate that much.

I am a bad person, and I post here only on occasion, but that no more makes me a freeper than say Malcolm X who said "...by any means necessary." Or maybe we should all hold hands across America again to help the folks in New Orleans. Symbolic gestures are all fine and good (See how many the current Rep. administration has done in the last 8 years...?) but sometimes you need HARSH words to snap people out of their lethargy. Sometimes you need action. I prefer the latter to be honest. But I'll be damned if I will let anyone tell me I can't be seething, infuriated, hate-filled when that is all some people have left.

(I invoke Malcolm because his message was basic..." We better get equal fast. I am a peaceful man... but these ni&&as over here (points to black panthers) THOSE ni&&as will FUCK SHIT UP." Excuse my language, but I mean it like NWA and most guys I grew up with in Van Nuys, Reseda and North Hollywood mean it. Not all of us grew up in nice white suburbs. Deal.)

Code pink is a fine example of people peacefully protesting and getting absolutely nothing accomplished. Nothing. The war is still raging, Democratic rep.s are still spineless, and Bush & Co. are no closer to being impeached than... well.. than ever.

So yeah... I do hope Tony Snow has a painful experience with cancer. I hope he has a hard time with his insurance. I hope his family gets into financial difficulty because of bills they have to pay. But somehow... somehow I doubt any of them will EVER get it. So phug them and the cancer they rode in with.

/rant

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rottenmac]

63. Uh-huh.

So anyone who disagrees with you and makes a coherent argument qualifies as a 'Freeper' ?

Welcome to Pamela Troy's DU; Speech and opinion restricted to happy-happy, joy-joy. Nothing remotely negative allowed. Keep your anger to yourself and make sure to always love thine enemy, no matter how evil and dastardly he is.

Get over yourself and accept the fact that some people are over being polite. Some people are pissed off and yes... BITTER to use a phrase that the MSM has jumped on. People use the word FUCK. People also use the word GODDAMN and FUCKING SHIT to express their frustration. Some people even wish Ill on others as a way to express HOW angry they are about things. If you want people to all get along all happy happy and whatnot, then fine. Go for it. But when someone says Tony Snow needs to go thru hell as does his family, maybe you should consider that they might have been on the shit end of the stick for too goddamn long to say "Oh shucks... I hope Tony is OK, even tho he was part of that darn Bush propaganda machine. Maybe he will feel better if I send him a get well card."

But I'm sure you have no idea what that's like.

[Pamela Troy]

78. Nope. Not everyone who disagrees with me and makes a coherent

argument qualifies as a "freeper."

Only those who behave like Freepers, i.e, who post messages gloating, joking, and expressing pleasure over the personal tragedies of people they dislike, and those who plainly have such an emotional stake in such hatred that they object to any demurrals of such behavior.

[acmavm]

56. This thread is a total laugh riot considering what the Obamites

say about their fellow dems who support Hils. And vice versa.

Tony lied to the American people. He lied for murderous war criminals who are destroying this country. He has no integrity, decency, or scruples. Maybe that has something to do with it.

[Pamela Troy]

65. I think the sheer joy of having someone to hate has a lot more to do with it.

Face it, you guys plainly have an emotional stake in hating someone. That is, you go beyond merely hatred as a visceral reaction. You seem to imagine it imparts some sort of glamor, some version of power to you, and you demand that everybody join in.

It doesn't make you stronger of course. It makes you weaker. And more irrational. And VERY easily manipulated.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

66. You're again confusing "emotional state" with "sense of humor"

I, for instance, don't accuse you of having an emotional stake in being holier-than-thou.

You just do it.

[Pamela Troy]

72. I think insulting people because they don't actually join in with your little

hate-fest certainly indicates an emotional stake in hating.

[Barrymores Ghost]

152. I think comparing people to Nazis just because they don't feel any pity...

...for those who've actually BEHAVED like Nazis indicates a complete absence of reason and perspective.

But, hey, that's just my inner-Nazi talkin'.

[Pamela Troy]

163. And you think it's not "behaving like a Nazi" to ridicule

a seriously ill human being?

It is.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

201. Well, no.

Acting like a Nazi is being involved in the murder of millions of innocent people, and supporting those that do so.

:shrug:

[Barrymores Ghost]

204. Forget it...

...I tried to make this point on a half-dozen separate occasions.

And something else, you insensitive Hun -- don't you know that pointing out what the Nazis did makes you a Nazi?

After all, I hear that Pamela Troy says "it takes one to know one."

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

206. Frankly, I think it's hilarious.

She couldn't rail against gallows humor without defending Snow, and then when comparisons to Nazis came up, she complemented the Nazi.

Not the sharpest long knife in the drawer.

[Barrymores Ghost]

208. Nope...

...but at least she is the sole owner and operator of her own short bus.

That's somethin'.

[Pamela Troy]

217. Well, it helps to actually know something about the

figures and historical eras you're invoking.

One of the other signs of Freepification is the "I'm ignorant and proud of it gambit." I see that's begun to infect DU too.

[Pamela Troy]

215. Is this referring to anything I've actually said,

Or are you now reduced to just making stuff up?

[Pamela Troy]

214. Imagine that! Hitler, Goebbels, Streicher, and Himmler

were not acting like a Nazi before 1938!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

221. Are you aware we've killed over a million Iraqis?

Or do you just not want to worry your beautiful mind over it.

[Barrymores Ghost]

226. She'll take Door #2, Monty. N/T

[Pamela Troy]

255. Yes, I am aware of that.

And in what year did these genocidal policies of the Nazis begin? I'm asking because using your criterion, Hitler, Streicher, and Himmler were not "acting like Nazis" until they actually started loading people onto cattle trucks.

[acmavm]

94. 'You guys'? When were you canonized? And I am not on either side. I just

sit and watch the mayhem and shake my head.

[Pamela Troy]

115. Riiiiight. You're not on either side.

You just strongly implied that it was okay to sneer at the suffering of the man, that's all.

[Barrymores Ghost]

205. Then that means you're a NAZI, you...Nazi!

:crazy:

[Rottenmac]

70. Ed Zachary. /nt

[cbayer]

69. Brilliant.

I was putting together some material to write a piece on hate and bullying, but you have done so much better than I could have ever done.

Thank you very, very much.

[sybylla]

71. Where's the line for the Stepford meds?

Someone better snatch them and flush them down the toilet.

Hate? We have 4045 U.S. soldiers DEAD in a war founded on lies and fraudulent evidence. Over 300,000 soldiers suffering head trauma and psychological trauma. Add waterboarding and torture. Abu Ghraib. Innocent civilians - men, women and children, murdered on the streets of Iraq and in their beds with Shock and Awe and everything we've done since the day we invaded. Soldiers raping soldiers. Soldiers committing suicide while our government covers it up. It's hard to enumerate the crimes this administration has committed or allowed others to commit against humanity.

And Tony Snow was a willful player in all of this, lying, pretending, spinning and jiving so this administration could continue unimpeded. Oh, yeah, my bleeding heart can hate. If there is a God, Tony Snow got that tumor because he and every bushbot in this administration with bloody fingers deserves to die a death more painful than the pain they have inflicted on hundreds of thousands of human beings without a thought but to put a few more bucks in the pockets of their wealthy friends and pad their choice investments.

If you want to compare that with a freeper wishing ill on Hillary because she wanted to make sure everyone had access to health care, there's clearly nothing in this world I can say to change your mind.

[Pamela Troy]

73. My, my, we do love our hatred, don't we? Hug that bottle close.

Stroke it. Croon to it. Toss it back quick. Somebody might take it away!

Goes down so smooooooooooth doesn't it? And you don't feel weak or scared any more when you drink it, do you? Nosirree!

[sybylla]

82. All the sweet-smelling flowers and pretty wallpaper and nice words

won't cover up the stinking, rotting flesh of human beings destroyed by this administration - no matter how much you want to pretend otherwise.

Your maligning hate with addiction is misguided and completely lacks understanding of both. In truth, your little psychological game is pointless. If you aren't outraged by the complicity in this monstrous, ill-guided administration by your fellow human beings and if it doesn't make you question their very humanity, then either you obviously aren't paying very much attention or I have to question your humanity.

Addiction? No. All I see here is enabling.

But then again I guess having properly placed empathy for your fellow human beings doesn't make for good fun and games, does it? Nothing to snark at then.

[Pamela Troy]

84. Having empathy only for people you like barely qualifies as "empathy."

[Barrymores Ghost]

88. I have plenty of empathy for those I don't (and will never) know...

...but I reserve the right to joyfully welcome the delivery of just rewards for those who commit crimes against humanity.

If you want to empathize with the suffering of war ciminals, knock yourself out.

[Pamela Troy]

90. And I reserve the right to call affronts to common decency exactly

what they are.

Do you honestly consider it virtuous to mock a man who could be dying. Is it really UN-virtuous to refrain from it?

[Barrymores Ghost]

99. I already gave you an answer: NO to both...

Jeebus...did somebody pour cement into your ears?

I DID say that it's patently sanctimonious and phony to hold up as paragons of virtue those DUers who would publicly pray (remember what Jesus said about that?) in this forum for cretins who (were there any real justice in this world) would be hauled in leg-irons and handcuffs to The Hague and tried and convicted and made to swing from a rope for their crimes -- and to huff and puff and excoriate those who say "Hey, karma's a fuckin' bitch, ain't it?"

Christ, get over yourself...and get off your high horse. It's got three broken legs and a swayed back from your hypocrisy.

[Pamela Troy]

113. So you figure anyone who expresses compassion for Snow

must be a phony?

You do presume a great deal, don't you?

[Barrymores Ghost]

126. No, not anyone...just those who feel it their duty to condemn and castigate...

...those who won't make a show of public genuflection for his benefit or for that of other war criminals.

If the foo shits, wear it.

Now, since you have a hard time paying attention to what I say, no matter how many times I say it, feel free to come back once more to get in your last word. I'm done. I'm tired of your silly games and, apparently, I can neither write slowly enough nor with a big enough crayon for you to keep up.

[Pamela Troy]

129. What I'm castigating is not those who don't

"make a show of public genuflection." It's those who feel called upon to publicly spit on a sick man.

Do you understand the difference?

[magellan]

131. Then don't make out like we should all kneel in prayer for Snow

...or STFU at your command. You started the thread, which was tantamount to a call out of a specific DUer, and then you argue with and insult everyone who replies with a differing opinion. I can't imagine what you expected, that your OP was so fab everyone would automatically say, "Why, Pamela Troy is right and I am reformed, hallelujah!"???

[Pamela Troy]

134. Do tell -- where I have I "made out like we should all kneel in prayer to Snow.

Do you truly equate not making fun of the personal tragedy of a man (and his family by the way) with "kneeling in prayer" to him?

[magellan]

136. The way you sell it, sister, yes. n/t

[Pamela Troy]

139. I'm not responsible for the irrationality of someone who equates

not making fun of the personal tragedy of a man with "kneeling in prayer" to him.

You really need to stop and think before you post here. Keep in mind, this is a public board. Posting outrageously nasty AND stupid comments because you're unwilling to concede a point is pretty counterproductive.

[magellan]

144. Irrational? Look in the mirror

You have a problem with everyone who doesn't see things your way, even with those of us who do nothing more than state our case reasonably -- which, btw, you invited by posting your OP on a public forum.

I'm sure of one thing from reading you. This all makes sense in the delusional world where you're the patron saint of compassion.

[Pamela Troy]

150. I have a problem with people who make fun of the seriously ill.

So far, you've not mounted much of a rational defense for it. All you've been able to manage is ascribing to me positions didn't take.

[magellan]

162. This is like talking to someone from BushCo

"All you've been able to manage is ascribing to me positions didn't take."

Right back at you, honey. All I said was I don't care about Tony Snow, and that was enough for you to launch a full assault.

[Pamela Troy]

165. Actually, the people most closely mirroring the language of Bushco

are the ones trying to claim there's something moral about either ridiculing the illness of Snow, and/or immoral about objecting to this ridicule.

[magellan]

166. So attack them, wherever they are

I've done neither.

[Pamela Troy]

172. I am.

Did someone force you to post comments here?

[magellan]

178. Nope

Just like no one forces you to do so.

[Pamela Troy]

179. I'm not the one complaining about a "full scale assault" because *gasp*

someone's actually RESPONDING to something I posted.

[magellan]

185. You're confused

You've mistaken my attempts to point out how unreasonable you're being as complaining. You can attack me all you like, knock yourself out. It won't change the fact that I don't care about Snow, and you're your own worst enemy when it comes to persuading me otherwise.

[Pamela Troy]

187. Your attempts to show "how unreasonable" I've been have consisted

of ascribing things to me I never said.

[magellan]

194. Things you never said?

See my post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3197415#3201410

[Barrymores Ghost]

195. I'll look forward to her response on this as much as you, I'm sure.

That's been her M.O. since whole this business got started.

<sigh.>

[magellan]

196. I was just thinking the same thing

My, it's gone unusually quiet!

I'd demand an apology from her, but I think a little compassion is in order...IF she's seen the error of her ways and isn't just off having a coffee. What say you?

[Barrymores Ghost]

199. No, she was, in fact perfecting willing to devolve into witless chants of...

..."I know you are but what am I," simply to get the final syllable in...so I allowed her the courtesy.

It's saddening to seem somebody with her writing acumen given to petty parsing, word-smithing and projection in a desperate attempt to hammer home a pointless and misguided objection that, quite frankly, I was willing to ignore -- until she started labeling me and others as Nazis because we wouldn't denounce the jokesters ourselves.

Gawd.

So, what say you about the Florida votes? Not meaning to put you on the spot, or presume to know where your loyalties lie...just curious.

[magellan]

210. It's a waste of talent

As you pointed out to her elsewhere: "You've stirred more flames than souls." Spot on. And sad that her pride doesn't let her see it...or whatever it is inside her that's blocking her vision.

Oh the FL votes, a topic near and dear to me heart! My stance is likely to cause more flames. I feel FL voters have been disenfranchised, first by the Dems in our own state legislature and then by the DNC. When I said this on another thread someone replied, "Did you protest?" I had to be honest and say no, I hadn't wasted my time -- I've dealt with our reps many times and they don't listen; they just send quaint form letters laying out precisely why they're going to do what they want anyway, and don't touch on the substance of any concerns raised.

Or they say "Thanks for calling" and do it anyway.

Well, it's like that throughout the government, local or national. We have the right to protest, they have the right to ignore us. And they do it so well. I've come around to believing the only thing that will get their attention is torches and pitchforks.

I'm a progressive indy, btw, who supported Kucinich. How about you? I see you support the perp-walk of Rove...That sure would be a great start.

[Barrymores Ghost]

216. I'm afraid I'd have to agree with you...

...at least from the standpoint of a voter. It is not fair to be shut out of the process, by anyone, be it your own legislators or your (meaning the presiding) party. I would also add that it is rather unseemly that only one of the two remaining candidates has been willing to abide by the rules of the process as initially agreed upon by all. Apart from a new primary in both states -- which isn't likely to occur -- I don't know what the solution is, honestly.

I am also a progressive, registered Independent who supported Kucinich and then Edwards. It's no secret who I support now...

Bette Davis for President.

And here we are.

[Pamela Troy]

256. Now I can respond to you.

In response to my post: No, the old meme...is that compassion has to flow from every pore to everyone regardless of who they are and what they've done. I choose to be a bit more discriminating than that when it comes to remorseless murderers and their henchmen....you accused me of gloating:

Do you understand the meaning of the term "common decency?" It covers not gloating over the misfortune of a fellow human being.

No, I was not accusing you personally of gloating. Please remember that the subject of this thread is the piece I posted about people here who were, unquestionably, gloating over Tony Snow’s recent illness.

Asking that people refrain from doing this – or from ridiculing anyone actually expresses concern about Snow and hope he recovers – hardly qualifies as demanding that “compassion has to flow from every pore.” I did not post a piece insisting that people here kneel down and pray for Tony Snow or send him flowers. I posted a piece about how stupid, immoral, and repulsive it is to behave towards him the way Freepers behave towards liberals who have suffered personal tragedies.

And no, in the context of a discussion about a piece aimed at people gloating over Snow’s illness, it’s NOT logical to assume that every reference to that gloating – even in a message directed at you – is referring to you personally. And in fact, I told you so directly, when I said, “The people posting ever so amusing ‘jokes’ like the one I quoted are the one’s gloating.”

I'm not dancing in the streets or throwing a party over the fact he's a very sick man. I didn't even smile when I heard the news, much as you may like to believe otherwise. I simply DON'T CARE ABOUT TONY SNOW. And I won't be brow-beaten into doing so.

You care enough about the hatred aimed at Tony Snow to respond, not to the people who were chortling over Snow’s illness and making obscene jokes about it, but to someone who was objecting to it. That indicates at the least a certain sympathy for the gloaters. And so far nothing you have said in this thread has led me to reassess this first impression.

For all your claims about not liking the gloating over Snow’s illness, you’ve uttered nary a peep here against the worst offenders. Instead, you've concentrated on attacking me. You’ve equated the fact that I don’t think Snow’s illness is something to be celebrated with demanding that everyone “kneel in prayer to him.” You’ve launched into a juvenile bout of name-calling, referring to me as a “bleeding heart” (one of those “insults” that invariably reveal more about the insulter than his or her intended target) and implied I’d “disappeared” because I was unable to respond to you quickly.

I have a job. I went in to where I work yesterday at 10:30 am. I didn’t leave it until about 8:30 pm, didn’t reach home until after 9:00 pm. While sometimes I can take breaks at my job that enable me to send brief responses, I felt your post deserved a longer, more carefully thought out reply than I could manage there.

Hence the delay. Hence this long response, sent the following morning, AFTER I’ve had a good night’s sleep and a cup or two of coffee. I suppose I could have gone online after I’d dragged myself in, exhausted from a long day, but I was afraid if I did that my reponses to you and others would be irrational, and much more ill-tempered than I ‘m accustomed to being.

You are owed and you will get no apology from me.

[magellan]

265. Well, bravo!

You managed to rewrite our exchanges to suit your own perspective while reiterating, yet again, your OP. I expected no more.

Asking that people refrain from doing this – or from ridiculing anyone actually expresses concern about Snow and hope he recovers – hardly qualifies as demanding that “compassion has to flow from every pore.” I did not post a piece insisting that people here kneel down and pray for Tony Snow or send him flowers. I posted a piece about how stupid, immoral, and repulsive it is to behave towards him the way Freepers behave towards liberals who have suffered personal tragedies.

In the above, you quote a couple of my comments from different points in our exchanges. What you fail to describe or acknowledge is what YOU wrote which led to those comments. Just as an example, let's get the backstory on that first one about "compassion flowing from every pore", shall we?

Me: "I'm not here to defend or excuse what others have written on the matter. I've had a loved one die from cancer. But I'll still reserve my compassion for those who I feel deserve it, and that excludes anyone who gives BushCo a helping hand."

You: Ah yes, the old meme of pretending that compassion is some sort of finite resource. It's not. If you can feel compassion for any stranger dying of cancer, you can feel compassion for Tony Snow.

Me: No, the old meme...is that compassion has to flow from every pore to everyone regardless of who they are and what they've done. I choose to be a bit more discriminating than that when it comes to remorseless murderers and their henchmen.

You: Do you understand the meaning of the term "common decency?"
It covers not gloating over the misfortune of a fellow human being.

Try running that conversation aloud with someone else reading my part. See if they don't wince at your last remarks.

And yet you insist that "...in the context of a discussion about a piece aimed at people gloating over Snow’s illness, it’s NOT logical to assume that every reference to that gloating – even in a message directed at you – is referring to you personally."

Sorry, but in the context of OUR exchange, which is all I was concentrating on at that point, it is indeed quite understandable that I might take a wee bit of offense at being asked if I understand the meaning of "common decency" as it applies to gloating -- which I had NOT engaged in.

And in fact, I told you so directly, when I said, “The people posting ever so amusing ‘jokes’ like the one I quoted are the one’s gloating.”

Yes, you did explain -- AFTER I asked, "Who's gloating?", etc. Trouble is, you then compounded the matter by accusing me of objecting to your objections to gloaters. Which left me wondering what the hell planet you were on.

You care enough about the hatred aimed at Tony Snow to respond, not to the people who were chortling over Snow’s illness and making obscene jokes about it, but to someone who was objecting to it. That indicates at the least a certain sympathy for the gloaters. And so far nothing you have said in this thread has led me to reassess this first impression.

What an unfortunate, telling viewpoint to take. I cared enough about your OP to respond, as I'm neither a chortler nor gloater. Check the other threads about Snow; I appear on a grand total of one, and that only as of last night when I attempted to straighten out a DUer on Snow's role in incurring people's wrath.

I don't jump on those who gloat or make sick jokes about Snow because I fully understand the rage behind it. That doesn't mean I condone it, as I've stated. But while you seem to believe anything less than compassion for this accomplice in mass-murder is immoral, I believe we reap what we sow, and Snow has most certainly reaped every ugly comment directed at him.

Servicing such monsters with your compassion might make you feel better about yourself -- bully for you if so. I can say without reservation that he's earned his fate, unlike the many millions harmed by his decision to do Bush**'s bidding. It disinterests me beyond that. The people who give it uglier expression have to deal with that within themselves, or not. And no matter what you may think, that ain't your jurisdiction.

I did not come here to start a fight; you made it so by going out of your way to attack, ridicule, condescend to and generally afflict anyone who replied with less than 100% total support of your OP. You might have handled it differently. You might have ignored the gloaters or at the very least dismounted your high horse when responding to those of us who took the time to explain our positions. You chose not to do these things.

And here we are.

[Pamela Troy]

268. Once again, I am at work and I can't reply at length.

I will respond when I can, probably much later this evening (I may be here until 9:30 or ten) or tomorrow morning.

[magellan]

269. Maybe I can make it easier for you

You passed the point of persuading me you had anything worthwhile to add on this subject, long ago. I dare say you feel the same about me. So allow me to instead offer you a challenge worth your talent.

Write a new OP with all the passion of this one, detailing Snow's crimes against humanity...and why they are just that.

It must appear in GD. You may take whatever time you feel is reasonable to do it.

Accept?

[Pamela Troy]

270. I am going to write a lengthy response to your last message.

Whether you read it or not is up to you.

And no, I don't accept writing assignments unless I am being paid for them.

[magellan]

274. What an utter waste of your talent

You go out of your way to write about and harp on something trivial like people saying mean things about Tony Snow -- for FREE -- yet you're unwilling to expend any energy on a far more serious subject when challenged to do so.

Useless as the Democratic leadership.

Go ahead and write your lengthy response for others to read, Pamela. I'm done with you.

[Pamela Troy]

276. Riiiight. I've NEVER written anything other than

this piece.

You know that's a crock.

[Pamela Troy]

280. Thanks for confirming my original assessment.

You managed to rewrite our exchanges to suit your own perspective while reiterating, yet again, your OP. I expected no more.

Exactly how did I “rewrite” anything? How did I alter the meaning of anything you posted here?

Try running that conversation aloud with someone else reading my part. See if they don't wince at your last remarks.

It’s funny, but I was thinking the exact same thing about the remarks about Snow’s illness that you expend so much time in this thread defending. And yes, as you make plain at the end of your latest response, you are defending them. You’ve pretty much confirmed that my take on your remarks was on target.

Trouble is, you then compounded the matter by accusing me of objecting to your objections to gloaters.

An assumption of mine that you have confirmed here.

Check the other threads about Snow; I appear on a grand total of one, and that only as of last night when I attempted to straighten out a DUer on Snow's role in incurring people's wrath.

Yes, I did check those other threads. That’s what led me to the conclusion I’ve drawn. The only comment you’ve made is about my remarks – not the remarks of those who’ve been gloating and posting “jokes” about another person’s possibly terminal illness.

That doesn't mean I condone it, as I've stated.

Except of course, that it does…

I believe we reap what we sow, and Snow has most certainly reaped every ugly comment directed at him.

And NOW the truth comes out.

Servicing such monsters with your compassion might make you feel better about yourself -- bully for you if so. I can say without reservation that he's earned his fate, unlike the many millions harmed by his decision to do Bush**'s bidding. It disinterests me beyond that. The people who give it uglier expression have to deal with that within themselves, or not. And no matter what you may think, that ain't your jurisdiction.

Of course it’s my “jurisdiction” to comment on behavior I consider outside the pale of common decency. It’s every person’s “jurisdiction.”

I did not come here to start a fight; you made it so by going out of your way to attack, ridicule, condescend to and generally afflict anyone who replied with less than 100% total support of your OP. You might have handled it differently.

Oh, come now. You spent a good bit of time in this thread buddying up to one of the worst offenders when it came to gloating. You resorted to name-calling, taunted me when I was unable to respond quickly to your posts, took it upon yourself to offer me a writing assignment, of all things, and then posted a condescending shake of the head about me “wasting my time.”

The fact is, you are all over them map here. You can’t seem to decide whether I’m at fault for responding to comments here, or whether I’m at fault for NOT responding quickly enough to suit you. On the one hand you indicate that you’ve read my blog and my other writings, on the other you behave as though this rather short, 700-word piece I wrote is the only political commentary I’ve ever contributed here.

Along with issues like Abu Ghraib, Electronic Voting, Voter suppression, and media bas, I have written at length about the revolting behavior of Freepers and other right-wingers who consider the personal tragedies of liberals or perceived liberals a joke. Under the circumstances, for me to keep silent about identical behavior from people at DU or other liberal or leftist websites would be complicity. And I will not be complicit in Freeper behavior whether it comes from Republicans or Democrats. I’m not going to countenance garbage from this side when I’ve commented on it from the other.

If that upsets you and others here, tough.

[Pamela Troy]

222. Oh dear. Have those NASTY men with the guns come

back and forced you to post here?

Would you like us to contact the police?

[magellan]

244. Why don't you show some of the "common decency" you expect from others

...and either apologize to me or attempt to refute my claim that you've been making false accusations?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3197415&mesg_id=3201410

[Pamela Troy]

257. I've responded to this elsewhere.

[FredScuttle]

75. LOL

Best line I've heard all week.

[Rottenmac]

81. Your equating alcoholism to this argument

...belittles the families who have dealt with alcoholism.

If you want to talk about how wishing Snow were dead is a toxic meme and not replying to every post with a 'Nyah-nyah' then great. Otherwise what you have done is nothing more than the equivalent of the old joke "Have you stopped beating your wife?" It makes those who have struggled with alcoholism personally as well as in their families feel like they are being belittled.

(Yes, I am speaking from experience as a child of one. So there you have it .)

The argument that people can't express their severe dislike at a person who has perpetuated the lies and disinformation (and continues to...) in their own fashion be it illogical, hate-filled or just against your own judgement is absurd. That is why we have this board. It is DEMOCRATIC Underground. Not Peacenik Underground. Not Anti-Hate Underground.

You might disagree with people cheering Tony Snow's cancer, but they have the right to say they hope he hurts as much as the 4000+ dead soldiers who dies for The Lie. Just like you have the right to say you think they are wrong.

[Pamela Troy]

85. Mocking someone's serious illness goes WAY beyond merely

"expressing severe dislike." And that freedom to express ourselves goes both way. Sure, people here are free to spew hateful garbage like the vile crap I've seen about Snow.

And others are free to describe that vile crap as vile crap.

[Barrymores Ghost]

89. There, you've done it.

Your beatification is in the mail.

[Pamela Troy]

91. As with other commenters here, you help to prove my point:

“Wassamatta wid you” they ask, focusing blearily on the person who’s just objected to Hillary Clinton being called a “fucking whore” or has expressed the hope for Tony Snow’s recovery. “You some kinda big fanna Bush? You think you’re some kinda high and mighty saint?”

[Barrymores Ghost]

96. Honestly, if I were to express any hope for Tony Snow's recovery...

...it would only be on the condition that he has to spend the rest of his miserable existence busting rocks and stomping cockroaches inside of his jail cell. So, if he can hold out until a conviction and sentencing, I'll get down on my knees and pray to sweet Jesus for a miracle.

Since that's not likely -- que sera, sera.

By the by, until you started in with your endless, sanctimonious sermons, I couldn't have cared less about those who chose to post their little Tony Snow get-well notes in a place that he'd never see them, for the benefit of no one but themselves.

I personally think you enjoy instigating this kind of reaction...otherwise, why continue to toss chum at the poor, pathetic likes of leftist "Freepers" like me?

Ciao.

[Pamela Troy]

116. Oh dear -- is someone standing behind you poking you with

a stick and forcing you to respond to this thread? Have my orbital mind-control lasers taken control of you and induced you to type the things you type?

Enjoy? No,I don't enjoy turning over a rock and discovering the things wiggling underneath it. But there are times I have to go on the record.

I don't sit by biting my tongue when I hear someone utter racist crap.

I don't sit by biting my tongue when I hear someone advocating torture.

And I'm not going to sit by biting my tongue when I hear this kind of garbage about a sick man WHATEVER HIS POLITICS.

[Barrymores Ghost]

128. It's not his politics...

...it's a million dead innocent people and a bankrupted nation that tells me he isn't worth my pity.

Listen, I read your journals and I largely agree with what you have to say. I also admire your writing abilities.

You've gone on record with your piety. I'm obviously not buying it.

Ta-ta.

[Pamela Troy]

130. Naaah, you're too attached to the idea of public hatred.

Feels too good, I guess.

[magellan]

135. You are so full of it

It isn't enough that several of us have explained WHY we feel none of the compassion you expect for Snow. A million dead Iraqis, 4050 dead US troops, hundreds of thousands more of both injured, many for life, all for a lie...and Snow continues to be a part of that and so much more. Without remorse or compassion.

But no, that's not good enough reason for you. Your simplistic view is we just "love to hate".

If you cared an iota about the irreparable damage Snow has helped to enable, to this country and humanity at large, you wouldn't be pushing this self-righteous crap quite so hard. That you continue to do so speaks volumes about what matters to you.

Really, it's time for you to exit, stage right. ------------------------->

[Pamela Troy]

140. I'm sorry, but anyone who bases their arguments on the stance that

NOT posting disgusting revolting "jokes" about a dying man, or gloating about his agony is the same thing as with "kneeling in prayer to him," really has little credibility.

[Barrymores Ghost]

143. Kneeling in prayer FOR him, not TO him -- get the difference?

Your histrionics have veered 90 degrees away from one thing and are now foucused on my own, and several other's refusal to airmail warm fuzzies to Tony Snow or to praise others' empty public pronouncements of prayer for the health of this propoganda minister for a war criminal.

I can't believe you'd be this obtuse. I think you just hate being on the wrong side of the argument, and you'll say anything and make any accusation you can to try to dig yourself out of a hole of your own making.

[Pamela Troy]

151. In the context of this discussion, no, I don't see the difference.

I've not demanded that people post messages expressing their good wishes or their prayers for Tony Snow.

I've objected when people have posted messages gloating over his personal tragedy, or making crude jokes about it.

As for "obtuseness" -- some people here quite honestly seem unable to grasp the most basic foundation of ethics. That is, you apply a consistent standard of behavior whether you are dealing with people you like or people you dislike. There is nothing remotely moral about denouncing dehumanizing speech when its aimed at people you like, but cheering it on when it's aimed at people you don't like.

"Shut up! It's fun!" does not qualify as either a rational or a moral argument.

[Barrymores Ghost]

157. This is as close as you've gotten to sounding like a reasoned individual.

Too bad it took you two pages worth of blanket condemnation and ad hominems to get to this point.

Only thing is, you trivialize the crimes of this administration and cheapen your own argument by trying to boil it down to nothing more than a petty question of "differing politics" or simply "not liking" someone.

Until you grasp onto that inconvenient truth, and acknowledge that giving in to a bit of Schadenfreude when it comes to a pack of war criminals isn't the worst sin someone can commit, you're just a megaphone issuing empty piety...and you won't win any hearts and minds.

[Pamela Troy]

174. It's obvious to anyone who actually took the trouble to read my piece.

And no, I'm not the one here who's been trivializing an important issue.

[Barrymores Ghost]

189. I read it. I found it belabored and didactic and sanctimonious and...

...obviously counter-productive. You've stirred more flames than souls. But you know that already. You're only sticking around not because you feel you can still convert us poor unethical monsters, but because you simply can't stand to be contradicted. It eats at you like acid.

Well, I'm officially bored with this thread, and with you. So, here -- get in your last word. have a brilliant day.

:hug:

[Pamela Troy]

190. No, I'm simply unconvinced by you. That bothers you so much that you

have persisted in posting to a thread that you now claim bores you.

Very well. Run along.

[magellan]

145. How many times do I have to say

...I don't approve of the gloating for you to actually HEAR it?

[Pamela Troy]

153. I'm reminded of the high school girl I knew who used to precede

nasty comments with the caveat, "I don't want to be nasty here..."

[magellan]

164. And yet you proceed to be nasty anyway

So much for learning from experience, hm?

[Pamela Troy]

173. Where have I said "I don't want to be nasty?"

You really need to stop ascribing things to me. It doesn't work.

[magellan]

177. It comes through loud and clear

I needn't ascribe anything to you. You manage it all by yourself.

[Pamela Troy]

181. Actually, I think you do. You can't seem to debate in any other way.

[magellan]

184. I've been reasonable

You keep refusing delivery.

[Pamela Troy]

188. No, I keep responding to you. I'm unconvinced by you. That's not the same

as "refusing delivery."

[magellan]

193. I'm not trying to convince you of anything

...except 1) you aren't the princess of compassion, and 2) your accusations against me are unfounded, unreasonable, and won't be ignored.

[Barrymores Ghost]

148. I have neither joked about Snow's cancer nor revelled in his pain.

I've just said I couldn't care two shits if he's sick or not, or in pain or not. And like I said, I'd prefer he lived long enough to stand trial for his role in perpetuating the Administrations murderous endeavors in the Middle East. But you've simply gone completely around the bend, and can't hear anymore.

[Pamela Troy]

154. You just object to someone else objecting to it.

[Barrymores Ghost]

158. I object to someone being OBSESSED with objecting to it. N/T

[Pamela Troy]

167. You object to not being granted the last word.

It's always amusing in threads like this to get the inevitable person who defines getting responses to things he or she has posted as "obsession." Yes, I will defend the premise of my original post. I didn't go in search of you, grab you by your collar, and demand that you (or for that matter, anyone else here) comment on this, but if you're up for arguing about it, I'm game.

If not, don't post.

[Barrymores Ghost]

183. I'm not arguing with you. I'm now simply stating what I observe to be empirical fact.

Argue with that. Or feel free to argue with yourself. I'm sure when others have tired of you and gone home for the day, that's probably how the night is whiled away.

[Pamela Troy]

186. Of course you're arguing. You're offering an assertion in response to

something I posted, an assertion that challenges it. It's an argument.

Generally I agree with myself, so there's not much need for me to "while away the night" arguing with me.

You still haven't explained who it was that barged into your house, pulled a gun on you, and forced you to post comments here. I assure you, I had nothing to do with it, and I hope you've contacted the police.

Do keep us apprised.

[Barrymores Ghost]

146. And you're clearly in love with the crimes and murders of the Bush Administration....

...and the liars who enabled them to carry these out. You make it perfectly clear that you are more obsessed with alleviating the pain and suffering of Tony Snow and Dick Cheney than you would ever mourn the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children, or the pain of tens of thousands of maimed U.S. soldiers and Marines.

Jesus, how can you sleep at night?

[Pamela Troy]

155. If you, as you claim, have been reading my posts, you know that's not true.

See, the difference between us is that I'm as revolted by obscenely dehumanizing speech from the left as I am by obscenely dehumanizing speech from the right.

Sorry if you don't get it.

[Barrymores Ghost]

159. You're clearly more revolted by the speech than the actual ACTS.

Like I said: you're absolutely lacking in perspective.

[Pamela Troy]

168. No. I am, however aware of the extent to which dehumanizing speech

leads to dehumanizing acts.

You apparently aren't.

[magellan]

160. It's quite a shame, BG

I've just taken a stroll through the archives and this person is actually a talented writer for our side. Unfortunately she's gotten caught up in the ecstasy of her own self-righteousness on this matter. She's delivering the exact kind of overbearing intellectualism and entreaty for compassion, regardless of crime, that the right expects and loathes from us.

I guess they aren't the only ones who need to learn that not all liberals are willing to be bled dry by their bleeding hearts.

[Pamela Troy]

170. "Bleeding heart" is a term I wear proudly. It's been applied to me for:

Objecting to the torture of detainees
Objecting to prison rape
Objecting to sending 12 year old kids to adult prison
Objecting to the treatment of Jose Padilla
Objecting to lynching
Objecting to the Greensboro Massacre
Objecting to the pepperspraying of demonstrators
Objecting to the bombing of abortion clinics
Objecting to the murder of clinic doctors and workers
Objecting to jokes about Rachel Corrie
Objecting to crude comments about Marla Ruzicka
Objecting to the premise of THE BELL CURVE

And many, many other things.

Welcome to the list.

[magellan]

175. Am I supposed to be impressed?

Your list could be applied to MANY DUers, myself included. You haven't cornered the market on being a liberal. What you HAVE done is proved several times over now, by ignoring what I write and persisting in your "my way or the highway" routine, that there are unreasonable fundamentalists in every camp.

[Pamela Troy]

176. Nope. You were the one who applied the term. I just responded the same

way I do when Freepers throw it at me.

Like I said, welcome to the list.

And no, I've not ignored what you write. I've responded directly to it. That seems to bother you.

[magellan]

180. Nothing you write at this point bothers me

Even the flat out lies and unfounded accusations.

[Pamela Troy]

182. What "lies" have I told?

And please. Offer something I've actually SAID, not what you wish I'd said.

[magellan]

192. Oh, let's see now

In response to my post:

No, the old meme...is that compassion has to flow from every pore to everyone regardless of who they are and what they've done. I choose to be a bit more discriminating than that when it comes to remorseless murderers and their henchmen.

...you accused me of gloating:

Do you understand the meaning of the term "common decency?"
It covers not gloating over the misfortune of a fellow human being.

I read that as the attack it was and called you on it:

Who's gloating?
I'm not dancing in the streets or throwing a party over the fact he's a very sick man. I didn't even smile when I heard the news, much as you may like to believe otherwise. I simply DON'T CARE ABOUT TONY SNOW. And I won't be brow-beaten into doing so.

And you replied by attributing to me a non-existent objection to your objections to others:

The people posting ever so amusing "jokes" like the one quoted
Are the ones who are gloating. And you seem to have a problem with my objecting to it. Why is that?

I then stated:

You didn't say you were talking about OTHERS gloating
You replied to ME, so logically I concluded your accusation of gloating was directed at ME. If you wanted my opinion on what OTHERS are saying you might have asked.
Freebie: I don't agree with the gloating. But I have no control over what others write here, or their thoughts. And neither do YOU.

...and you again accused me of objecting to your objections:

You still haven't explained why you seem to have a problem
with my objecting to people gloating over Snow's tragedy.
Why did you feel compelled to comment?

Those were the first exchanges. You've since kept up with your lies about what I wrote and my stance.

[Barrymores Ghost]

207. Again, no response from our patron saint of Nazi sympathizers. N/T

[Pamela Troy]

219. Uhhh. I'm at work. Or rather, I'm on break.

I don't generally respond at length to these things while I'm on the clock.

For someone who claimed to be bored, you're mighty impatient.

[Barrymores Ghost]

223. UPDATE: Apparently, she's too busy to apologize to you, but has plenty of time to nibble my ankles.

:eyes:

[Pamela Troy]

225. LOL! I'm not the one nibbling on ankles here.

You do realize, don't you how ridiculous you look when you loudly declare yourself bored by a thread, then come back in this manner?

Her post to me is rather long. I'd like to go over it point by point, and I am afraid I can't do that right now. Later though.

[magellan]

243. Oh dear, oh dear

Hope you've had your shots. As for her apology, or the lack of even a nibble on what I've written since, ask me if I'm surprised!

[Barrymores Ghost]

245. I'll need to go in for the rabies kicker. I'm all up to date on Parvo.

How was your day?

I didn't quite grasp what you meant in your message by " "did something good." I knew it was from you...but, did I miss some miraculous act of contrition?

[magellan]

246. Why

...for introducing us, of course! I was just so happy to learn you're an indy too, and that we share similar feelings about the FL non-primary. Admitting such things can lead to a thrashing around here....

And I also wanted to quickly explain I'd be gone for a while, rather than disappearing just as we were getting to know each other through the kind auspices of our hostess.

Speaking of whom -- 12 hours and counting. I'm not quite sure what points in my post she needs to go over, but when a response takes this long it usually means a lot of work is going on behind the scenes to rewrite facts and history.

Day was fine, thanks. How about yours? And which Barrymore's ghost are you?

[Barrymores Ghost]

247. The ghost of John Sidney Blyth...

...it's a bit of a story, but I'm a thespian.

Insofar as Pamela's non-response to your latest points of order are concerned, I figure someone got the memo sayin' "game over."

There is a point (at least in the lives of the reasonably sane) where one realizes that one's shit is in the wind, troop, and it's best to low-crawl away and hope nobody continues to direct rounds at one's retreating ass. My best guess is, such is the case here.

I doubt if our lovely Pam will devote any energy or industry to revisionism, since her audience has largely moved on and she has no solid patch of terra firma upon which she can hoist her sanctimonious bulk.

(If that sounded needlessly <fill in your pejorative adjective here>, mea culpa)

P.S. The pleasure is mine.

[magellan]

248. Excellent

Just caught "Dinner at Eight" earlier this week on TCM. I'd never seen it all the way through. Hubby and I love the old flicks, can't beat 'em.

Oh, I see what you mean, and yet I do hope Pam won't disappoint. She has such a deliciously high regard for fair play and decency, I can't imagine her not moving heaven and earth to live up to her word.

Now, "to sleep, perchance to dream". Nighty-nite, BG. :hi:

[Barrymores Ghost]

249. Watch "Beau Brummel," if you're truly a fan...

...it makes me weep whenever I see it. Perhaps I have too kindred an attachment to the old man. He was, after all, the greatest American Hamlet.

Buenas noches.

[magellan]

259. Will do

I see it's a 1924 film, is it silent? That might explain why I haven't seen it before; I'm afraid I don't have much patience with silent films generally. But in either case, I'll look out for "Beau Brummel" on your recommendation. Mary Astor is good too. I'm looking at a photo of them both from the film; I'd have never recognized her!

[Barrymores Ghost]

264. It is a silent, but the score is divine...and there's even some...

...fairly wonderful special effects, given the year it was made. It's also a very touching film and beautifully shot. I get weepy watching it.

[magellan]

266. You're talking my language now

Music. I've been a bit of a BGM buff ever since I saw "Somewhere in Time" (1980) with Christopher Reeve and Jane Seymour. The score was by John Barry, hauntingly beautiful, and the way music is used in the film (which is very moving itself) never fails to bring to me to tears.

One "Beau Brommel", sold American! Well, next time I make an Amazon order anyway. I'll keep my expectations down and let it unfold itself to me.

Are you an actor then, or just an aficionado? Reply privately if you like. No need to share all of ourselves with the world.

[Barrymores Ghost]

273. When he finds his PENNY in his vest pocket!!! SOB!!!

I'll send you a mail ater I'm done working. Ciao.

[magellan]

275. Better do it private

I'm putting Pamela on ignore now, which means I won't see this thread again.

[Barrymores Ghost]

250. P.S. Great sign-off. Kudos all around. N/T

[Barrymores Ghost]

191. That's been precisely my point with her, magellan...

...and I've offered the same praise for her talents. But I think there's a certain pathology at play here: she's given up reason for the sake of staying in the fight...only problem is, she's swingin' haymakers at shadows.

[crispini]

83. K*R

[baldguy]

86. Link please?

The only reference to "I hope his tumor makes a full recovery from that bad case of Tony it’s got." is your original post.

Relying on FR as a source for what's on DU is extremely questionable.

[Pamela Troy]

87. I got that post straight from DU. (I don't frequent Free Republic.)

And by the way, the guy who posted it has come on this thread and actually objected because I didn't include his name. He's quite proud of it, apparently. (I thought I was doing him a favor. Go figure.)

Sorry, but it's definitely from DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3194511&mesg_id=3194758

[Richard Steele]

106. The author has claimed credit, here in this thread. nm

[ismnotwasm]

92. Great post

I tend to think of health conditions or concerns literally, probably because I'm a nurse. Cancer isn't about some abstract political statement. People who suffer and die from cancer never "deserve" the suffering it causes, no matter if it's Tony Snow, a three year old child, or a young mother with a couple of kids.

If I was to find amusement in a situation involving any political criminal, it would include a honest trial, followed by a nice long, long prison sentence.

Cancer is universal, laugh at one, you're laughing at everybody who's ever suffered, because I'll tell you it's one of the great equalizers of the human condition.

I've cared for hospitalized prisoners who've committed horrid crimes. They have 24 hour guards, and are supposed to be in 2 point restraints--handcuffs-- at all times. Do I rejoice or laugh at their suffering? No. Do I think they "got what was coming to them?". No, because two rooms away will be an innocent dying or suffering from the same condition without having ever inflicted injury on another human being or society. Where is the justice in that?

[MessiahRp]

97. You're right, we should want him to live through this.... so he can go to prison with the rest of em

I want them facing justice. Death is a way out of this. Ask Ken Lay... oh wait you can't.

Rp

[alarimer]

100. Fuck that shit.

I will be not say nice things about somebody I despise just because they are sick (or dead). Hopefully Bush will die painfully someday.

Stuff this holier than thou bullshit. Playing nice with the enemy has never worked.

[Pamela Troy]

117. Nobody's asking you to say nice things.

This post is about people who not only spew garbage about a man who could be dying, but object to the fact that some of us here have expressed the hope that he'll recover.

[Cobalt-60]

101. I'm rooting for the Tumor

I have the heart of an assassin when it comes to these guys.
They not only laugh at our suffering but often deliberately inflict it.
Tony Snow should be ushered up the same gallows as the other war criminals.
He's been Boosh's willing Goebbels.

[Pamela Troy]

118. Ah, I can see we have a romantic here.

"I have the heart of an assassin..." No doubt you imagine yourself whipping a black cape around your shoulders, thunder crashing and lightning flashing in the background....

Pathetic.

[Cobalt-60]

138. dramatic, but not accurate

These *ssholes have done to my nation have earned a place in history next to Mussolini.
I confess I would like to watch them hoisted to join their fellow fascists.
But I'll settle for conventional prosecution and imprisonment.

[Pamela Troy]

141. And you imagine yourself different from all those *ssholes who use

pretty much the same rationale you do for justifying mistreating people THEY dislike because....?

[hfojvt]

104. sometimes it's worse than that

Way, way back I got into an argument with a DUer who was gloating/laughing at Rachel Corrie's death.

But not just dumb and out of control, but also repulsive.

[tavalon]

107. It would be so fun to feel self righteous and say that I don't wish Tony any bad,

because in fact, I don't. But it doesn't take much imagination for me to know that I wouldn't be writing the same words if George Bush were dying of pancreatic cancer (sure he's a dry drunk and the sky isn't blue) or that Dick Cheney was dying of a soul wasting disease and would be spending his afterlife being eaten and shat by demons, over and over again. I would be dancing on his soon to be grave. I hope that every day from here on out is miserable for those two worms and for a dozen or so other neocons so I guess I'm not any better than the people you are castigating.

Guilty as charged. There are people in this world that I hate.

[Pamela Troy]

119. Baloney. I doubt you think it would be "fun" to say anything of

the kind.

[tavalon]

121. Oh my goodness!

You have a direct line into my psyche!

Not. Get over your bad self, eh?

[Pamela Troy]

123. I just know how hatred works.

It's never fun to stand up to a lynch mob.

No, judging from human history, what's "fun" is shrieking your hatred to the skies and convincing yourself that you're being virtuous while doing it.

[New Dawn]

109. Tony Snow chose to be part of a government that has killed one million Iraqis

He is worthless piece of shit and is no more "innocent" than any other war criminal.

When I see Tony Snow's picture, I think of all the Iraqi kids that his regime killed. Fuck him.

[Pamela Troy]

120. And that makes it okay so spit on a sick man, eh?

Oooooooooo, but I hate him so much and it feels so goooood!

[The Straight Story]

147. And we chose to buy things and pay taxes than enabled this govt to do what it has done

not to mention we elected more people in that helped in passing budgets for it all.

[alfredo]

132. For some it is too late. Look at this poor sap.

[Mimosa]

137. Simple Human Decency or "God Don't Like Ugly"

Ms. Troy, I appreciated the message of your OP. Yesterday I glimpsed at a couple of posts re: Tony Snow and just went away. He seems 'nice enough' and I don't make a policy of hating other human beings based on political orientation.

I think my mindset is archaic, from a more civil era. OK, so I marched in anti-war protests when both LBJ and later Nixon were in office. That didn't mean I held violence in my heart in response against violent acts. As a teenager I had read and absorbed Gandhi's autobiography.

History is full of examples of persons who meant to do good becoming bad. It won't happen to me. I need my self-respect.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

203. That's true, God doesn't like ugly.

Which is why He gave Tony Snow cancer.

[f the letter]

227. Please, man..

give it a rest all right? Yes, you think cancer is funny and that it's even funnier if you don't like the victim. We get it, it's a riot. i'm pissing myself from laughing so hard over here.

Any initial humor in the tumor vs. Tony Snow post is faded after dozens of obnoxious replies to a thoroughly reasonable plea for civility by the OP.

Tony Snow is a jackass who has been complicit in some of the biggest war crimes here in recent memory, but seriously.... a little class please?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

229. Oh, I don't think cancer is funny.

Cancer = tragedy.

Cancer + Tony Snow = comedy.

[f the letter]

237. dude... we get it. brilliant. n/t

[BreweryYardRat]

142. Cancer's a pretty nasty way to go, that's true.

And some people do gloat a little to excess.

Hell, Tony Snow is way down the list of the people in this administration whom I despise, since he's just a talking head with an extra veneer of legitimacy. I don't think he's guilty of high treason, as many people in/affiliated with the administration certainly are.

But he does have a role in the tragedies of the last 8 years.

I'm in a good mood right now, so I'd like to see Tony make a full confession of anything secret and/or illegal he was involved in, live on Keith Olbermann's show...then drop painlessly dead of a massive aneurysm five minutes after he finished speaking.

[Pamela Troy]

156. Making repulsive jokes about what may be a terminal illness is not

merely "gloating a little to excess."

[GoneOffShore]

197. Which branch of The Church of Our Lady of Perpetual Outrage do you belong to?

[Barrymores Ghost]

209. The Sacred Parrish of the Wholly Misdirected. N/T

[GoneOffShore]

218. Excellent!

I hear that the pastor there is Sister Immaculate Cosh of Kindness.

[Barrymores Ghost]

240. BRAVO!! N/T

[Pamela Troy]

220. Sigh.

“Wassamatta wid you” they ask, focusing blearily on the person who’s just objected to Hillary Clinton being called a “fucking whore” or has expressed the hope for Tony Snow’s recovery. “You some kinda big fanna Bush? You think you’re some kinda high and mighty saint?”

[GoneOffShore]

234. Snow's a putz - I'm sorry he's got cancer

But you're a concern troll.

Be concerned about something else.


:eyes:

What are you trying to do? Get your post count up?

:eyes:

[Barrymores Ghost]

235. Considering the number of times she's reposted the same, tired refrain....

...above your own, I'd say you win the Kewpie doll.

[GoneOffShore]

241. As long as it doesn't look like this

[Barrymores Ghost]

242. I'm not sure whether this is more...

...funny than it is creepy, or vice-versa.

Either way, nice find!

[ReneeR]

198. B.S.

I'm sure Tony Snow is getting the best treatment health care can provide. Meanwhile as I struggle with kidney failure I'm forced to spend all but $14 of my monthly income on medicine due to the bullshit Medicare part D scam the Republicans passed on the old and disabled. Fuck them all! I hope they all rot from the inside out.

[Pamela Troy]

224. Does your access to health care absolutely depend

on trash-talking a sick man in public? Or on badmouthing anyone who expresses the hope that he'll recover?

[f the letter]

228. Amen!

[Patriot Abroad]

233. I don't like Snow . . .

But I would much rather have seen him crucify himself by misstatements and ridiculous defense of this administration on national TV than get sick.

[Jim__]

236. Very well put - n/t

[yardwork]

239. Please press the "alert" button at the bottom left of the offending post.

Let the mods take care of it. They generally take a dim view of posts that express hope that somebody will die.

[Elspeth]

251. The death of Tony Snow would do absolutely no good. He's too low on the totem pole

If you must wish for death, wish for the death of the evil that drove the architects of globalism to regard torture and death as a great way to transfer wealth to themselves.

[raebrek]

262. I'm afraid that it is a pandemic and will continue until after the elections. n/t

[Forkboy]

271. I have cancer. It doesn't make one a good person if they weren't one before.

It bestows nothing special on the person having it. It doesn't make them heroes. It doesn't make them worthy of respect that they weren't worthy of before.

Fuck him. He's willingly lied and helped the process of killing thousands of Americans, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, and in displacing millions of women and children. My sympathy goes to them, not the responsible irresponsibles.

[Barrymores Ghost]

277. THANK you. *And, Pamela, were you paying attention???

*Doubt it. Or, if you were, perhaps you can call Forkboy a Nazi, too.

sigh...

Get well, sir. Get well.

[GoneOffShore]

278. She will, no doubt she will.

I'm almost tempted to put her on Ignore, but somehow watching her writhe is much more fun.

"Reeling and writhing and fainting in coils."

[Forkboy]

279. Thanks BG.

Things are looking up. There's still a couple more small tumors in my neck (real small, like a centimeter) and the radiation this year is waaay less than what they did last year, so hopefully this will take care of what's left. The docs sound confident, and I feel confident, so hopefully by the end of the year it'll be gone.

[Pamela Troy]

281. I never said Tony Snow was a good person.

I said it was inappropriate to gloat over the fact that he has cancer.

Do you understand the difference?

[Forkboy]

282. Sure, I just don't necessarily agree.

Some people, while seeming civilized on the surface, truly aren't. I feel no need to mourn them, and can even understand the desire to feel relief at their passing.

I'm not comparing Snow to Hitler, but people were rightfully overjoyed when he took his life. Sometimes gloating over someone's death isn't all that bad.

I simply have no sympathy to someone simply because they have a deadly disease. I didn't root for him to get it, but I find no sadness in the fact he did. His life has been a disaster for thousands due to his actions. I'll be happy when his ability to use his influence to destroy is over.

[Pamela Troy]

283. I didn't ask you to mourn him.

What I said was, it is inappropriate to gloat over the fact that Snow -- or anybody else -- has cancer.

Along with issues like Abu Ghraib, Electronic Voting, Voter suppression, and media bas, I have written at length about the revolting behavior of Freepers and other right-wingers who consider the personal tragedies of liberals or perceived liberals a joke. Under the circumstances, for me to keep silent about identical behavior from people at DU or other liberal or leftist websites would be hypocrisy. A I’m not going to countenance garbage from this side when I've described it as inexcusable coming from the other.

If that upsets some people here, tough.

[Jed Dilligan]

272. I praise death in general.

Without death we would still have ex-slaveowners as a majority in Congress.

I praise the cycle of life. I praise my own eventual end.