"We don't need 5,000 more illiterate peasants in the State of Colorado!!!!!11"

[Bluebear]

By Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estes

When I heard what state Rep. Douglas Bruce said in the Colorado House chamber Monday — that he didn't think we needed "5,000 more illiterate peasants in the state of Colorado" — I thought his characterization of many Mexicanos was accurate. Illiterate, yes. Peasants, yes.
We are illiterate. And peasants. Or, rather, many of us were. Those who still are won't be for long, if given even half a chance.

My father's family was made up of peasants who could not read or write. They immigrated to America barely able to wobbly-ink their own names. Some just drew X's. All their lives, they spoke "Ah-mare-ee-kahn" with such thick accents that I often had to translate.

I was the first person in my father's family to complete grade school. Even though I had difficulty learning to read, I did learn, and became "the reader" for my family. I read their medicine bottles, telegrams from "the old country," tax documents, legal documents business cards, milk bills — all before I was old enough to walk down to the end of the street by myself...

I know from spending many years being battered about — no kid from an immigrant family escapes taking unrelenting heat from those who despise us — that some who see us as the downfall of civilization will not be turned by my words. But I also think that sometimes, if people know better, they will do and say better. Sometimes warmth will turn a heart back to "on" more kindly than a slap.

The story of my non-literate family is only one story of millions wherein parents and children, each in their own ways, blossomed when given even slightest opportunities while rowing like crazy against a tide of public opprobrium.

http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_9017514?source=commented-opinion

[mac2]

1. Help the tax payers and take in a few into your home.

That's what my grandparents did when they came from their home country after they immigrated. Why should the tax payer support them?

If your children are in schools they will have to give up time and needed money to educate them. It puts them behind.

You might be happy to learn we have more legal immigration than in the age of your parents or grandparents. Just that isn't enough for those who want cheap labor and our country to take in the world.

[Bluebear]

2. And where in this essay does the writer request taxpayer dollars to support them?

And certainly, per your complaint about the schools, we don't want immigrants educated. Better to keep them uneducated and then complain that they are being supported by taxpayer dollars.

Right?

[TomInTib]

3. I have taken to public transportation for the first time in my life.

Here in the Bay Area we have one of the best public transportation systems in the country, Golden Gate Transit.

It should be re-named the Central American Express.

Often, I am the only non-Hispanic passenger on the bus. And this system is almost completely underwritten with taxpayer money.

The only taxpayer on the bus is the driver.

[enid602]

8. reflection

I think this phenomenon is more a reflection of the whites than the Central Americans. Why live in a city that offers public transit if you don't use it?

[TomInTib]

9. In San Francisco, the buses are crowded with locals.

But not here in Marin.

I have nothing against immigrants, I just find it interesting that 99% of ridership here is Hispanic.

[AlphaCentauri]

21. I would be happy that central americans are not polluting the air

and I guess they pay for the ride.

[Telly Savalas]

16. Hispanics don't pay taxes?

[Bluebear]

17. Damn lucky, aren't they?

And here I had to be born with Romanian heritage.

[mac2]

18. They either don't make enough to money pay taxes or can't because

they are illegal.

[Bluebear]

53. What a racist fool you are. nt

[mac2]

55. I'm thinking that about you blaming all your problems on

having to pay your fair share and contribute to our society.

[Bluebear]

65. All my problems? What are all my problems?

[AlphaCentauri]

23. 50 billions is not enough?

[mac2]

26. 50 billions of what for who?

[AlphaCentauri]

29. Illegal immigrants paying more taxes than you think

Eight million illegals pay Social Security, Medicare and income taxes. Denying public services to people who pay their taxes is an affront to America’s bedrock belief in fairness. But many “pull-up-the-drawbridge” politicians want to do just that when it comes to illegal immigrants.

The fact that illegal immigrants pay taxes at all will come as news to many Americans. A stunning twothirds of illegal immigrants pay Medicare, Social Security and personal income taxes.

Yet, nativists like Congressman Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., have popularized the notion that illegal aliens are a colossal drain on the nation’s hospitals, schools and welfare programs — consuming services that they don’t pay for.

In reality, the 1996 welfare reform bill disqualified illegal immigrants from nearly all meanstested government programs including food stamps, housing assistance, Medicaid and Medicare-funded hospitalization.

The only services that illegals can still get are emergency medical care and K-12 education. Nevertheless, Tancredo and his ilk pushed a bill through the House criminalizing all aid to illegal aliens — even private acts of charity by priests, nurses and social workers.

Potentially, any soup kitchen that offers so much as a free lunch to an illegal could face up to five years in prison and seizure of assets. The Senate bill that recently collapsed would have tempered these draconian measures against private aid.

But no one — Democrat or Republican — seems to oppose the idea of withholding public services. Earlier this year, Congress passed a law that requires everyone who gets Medicaid — the government-funded health care program for the poor — to offer proof of U.S. citizenship so we can avoid “theft of these benefits by illegal aliens,” as Rep. Charlie Norwood, R-Ga., puts it. But, immigrants aren’t flocking to the United States to mooch off the government.

According to a study by the Urban Institute, the 1996 welfare reform effort dramatically reduced the use of welfare by undocumented immigrant households, exactly as intended. And another vital thing happened in 1996: the Internal Revenue Service began issuing identification numbers to enable illegal immigrants who don’t have Social Security numbers to file taxes.

One might have imagined that those fearing deportation or confronting the prospect of paying for their safety net through their own meager wages would take a pass on the IRS’ scheme. Not so. Close to 8 million of the 12 million or so illegal aliens in the country today file personal income taxes using these numbers, contributing billions to federal coffers.

No doubt they hope that this will one day help them acquire legal status — a plaintive expression of their desire to play by the rules and come out of the shadows. What’s more, aliens who are not self-employed have Social Security and Medicare taxes automatically withheld from their paychecks.

Since undocumented workers have only fake numbers, they’ll never be able to collect the benefits these taxes are meant to pay for. Last year, the revenues from these fake numbers — that the Social Security administration stashes in the “earnings suspense file” — added up to 10 percent of the Social Security surplus.

The file is growing, on average, by more than $50 billion a year. Beyond federal taxes, all illegals automatically pay state sales taxes that contribute toward the upkeep of public facilities such as roads that they use, and property taxes through their rent that contribute toward the schooling of their children.

The non-partisan National Research Council found that when the taxes paid by the children of low-skilled immigrant families — most of whom are illegal — are factored in, they contribute on average $80,000 more to federal coffers than they consume. Yes, many illegal migrants impose a strain on border communities on whose doorstep they first arrive, broke and unemployed.

To solve this problem equitably, these communities ought to receive the surplus taxes that federal government collects from immigrants. But the real reason border communities are strained is the lack of a guest worker program.

Such a program would match willing workers with willing employers in advance so that they wouldn’t be stuck for long periods where they disembark while searching for jobs. The cost of undocumented aliens is an issue that immigrant bashers have created to whip up indignation against people they don’t want here in the first place.

With the Senate having just returned from yet another vacation and promising to revisit the stalled immigration bill, politicians ought to set the record straight: Illegals are not milking the government. If anything, it is the other way around.
http://www.swdtimes.com/view.php?I=975

[mac2]

31. Deleted

[AlphaCentauri]

33. There are some studies and statistics

http://www.arabamericannews.com/news/index.php?mod=article&cat=USA&article=923

Among the report's findings:


Immigrant Households and Businesses Generate Billions: In 2005, immigrant households and businesses paid approximately $300 billion in federal, state, and local taxes: $165 billion in federal income taxes, $85 billion in state and local income taxes, and $50 billion in business taxes.


Immigrants Pay More in Taxes Than They Use in Services Over Their Lifetimes: Depending on skills and level of education, each immigrant pays, on average, between $20,000 and $80,000 more in taxes than he or she consumes in public benefits.


Immigrants' Relative Youth Contributes To Social Security's Health: Current levels of immigration will provide a net benefit to the Social Security system of nearly $450 billion in taxes paid over benefits received during the 2006-2030 period-and almost $4.4 trillion during the 2006-2080 period. This is because 75 percent of immigrants arrive in the United States when they are in their prime working years (age 18 to 65). But the share of native-born citizens in their prime working years now stands at only 60 percent, and will decline rapidly over the coming decades as the Baby Boomers retire.


Immigrants Educated on Home Country's Tab: The roughly 26 million immigrants now in the United States who arrived when they were over the age of 18 — after their upbringing and basic education were paid for in their home countries — represent a windfall to American taxpayers of roughly $2.8 trillion. The United States receives all of the tax payments made by these immigrants, while bearing almost none of the costs of raising and educating them.


Several recent studies of the economic impact that immigration has at the state level have yielded similar findings:

[mac2]

34. deleted

[mac2]

37. Then these studies are lies.

Even Hispanic groups say so. I've heard and seen them on CSPAN. They send money out of the country. The "legal Hispanic immigrants" pay but not those in the country illegally.

[AlphaCentauri]

41. ask anyone that works for the IRS

I don't base my opinion in illusions just some facts.

[mac2]

51. You have a direct line to them?

[AlphaCentauri]

52. I guess you are not a tax payer, I have 2 friend who work for the IRS

but just look for it in the yellow pages :popcorn:

[mac2]

54. If they know who doesn't pay taxes why aren't they going

after them? We are short funds in this country to run it properly.

[AlphaCentauri]

63. don't forget tax cuts and your 300 dollar "stimulus" check

forget about how much is spend in Iraq, Afghanistan, Germany, Colombia, I could go on and on and on....

[mac2]

32. How do you know how much and by who?

They are illegal and don't file returns or pay taxes nor census. They are off the list. Many towns are feeling the stress of them not paying taxes. Towns over run with illegals aren't flush with money in their treasury.

[Hekate]

36. THANK YOU for truth and accuracy.They pay taxes every time they turn around,just like the rest of us

Every time an employer pays them -- unless it's under the table in cash -- payroll taxes and Social Security taxes are taken out. Every time they fill up the car with gas, they pay tax. Every time they buy shoes, aspirin, clothes -- they pay taxes.

This country is starting to make me sick.

Hekate

[mac2]

39. Not in my area.

[AlphaCentauri]

42. that is cayman island or alcatraz?

[Hekate]

44. What, workers don't buy stuff at the grocery store, clothing, gas? They all get paid cash?

You live in an area that's all on a barter economy? Very interesting.

Hekate

[SemiCharmedQuark]

47. I buy my stuff with burlap and ticking.

[LSK]

70. THEY DONT PAY TAXES WHEN THEY BUY GAS?? ARE YOU NUTS???

ARE THERE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT GAS STATIONS NOW????

:wtf:

[mac2]

40. I'd like to just pay that kind of tax.

Our school taxes, state taxes, and federal taxes are high.

[Hekate]

48. Talk to Bush and the Repubs. According to them they cut your taxes.

As far as I can tell all they've done is cut services and throw it all back on to the local communities. You might ask your local city/county council etc about that.

Hekate

[mac2]

50. Nope...we don't make that much money to have a tax

break. We're not that poor or rich. We pay as middle class for everything.

[mac2]

57. Many Hispanics do pay taxes.

Citizens who are Hispanic do. Illegals (from all over the world not just Mexico) pay few taxes because they aren't part of the system. They pay taxes for things they buy...but not state, federal, and local school taxes. Many move around a lot so this segment of our society can not be taxed or found.

[pinto]

35. That's a pretty broad assumption, TomInTib, no? The majority of bus riders

may be Latinos, which is what I figure you are getting at, but to assume that they don't pay taxes seems a stretch.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

46. How do you know that? Does hispanic automatically mean illegal?

I'm hispanic. I ride the bus. I pay taxes. WTF?

[mac2]

56. And you are a citizen?

Yes...many Hispanics were made citizens in the last amnesty. Some didn't bother even then. Some Hispanics have been here for generations...they don't want illegals competing for their jobs, bringing crime, etc.either.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

61. I was born in Chicago.

[mac2]

62. See post #57.

As a citizen of this country and living in Chicago you have seen the huge increase in legal and illegal immigrants (from all over the world not just Mexico). Legal immigration has surpassed any time in our history so we don't keep them out. The combination of both is over whelming to our economy and security.

Because housing is expensive in the city many flow out to the subrubs stressing their budgets.

[TomInTib]

64. I grew up along the Texas border.

I can spot an immigrant from a mile away.

Just the same as I can pick out any junkie in a crowd, being a fellow (long-time) heroin addict.

You should know what I mean.

[mac2]

66. I don't know if I could spot an immigrant who is here

illegally except they usually travel in groups.

I could not tell a person on drugs except they seem very restless and wound up. I worked in laboratories doing drug research and analysis most my life but have no clue of many drug people. I can't say I grew up with or had any friends with drug problems. I'm from an older generation.

[TomInTib]

71. I may have misspoken.

What I should have said is that I can spot a first-generation Central American with uncanny accuracy.

Anyone who has spent decades in S Texas can do the same.

But junkies, man I am 100%. And I am approaching 60, myself.

[Popol Vuh]

10. No Problem

Get off our land and go back to Europe or wherever your ancestors illegally immigrated from to this continent. n/t

[mac2]

25. The American Indians should have told us immigrants that.

They would have their own land and country.

[AlphaCentauri]

30. aha, at gunpoint , sure

:hide:

[LSK]

69. how about we cut the Defense budget by 75% and buy them all McMansions

It will be MUCH CHEAPER.

[Xithras]

4. The problem isn't the words he used, but what he meant by them.

"We don't need 5000 more illiterate peasants in the state of Colorado..."
"We don't need 5000 more short Asians in the state of Colorado..."
"We don't need 5000 more rap loving blacks in the state of Colorado..."
"We don't need 5000 more beer drinking whites in the state of Colorado..."
"We don't need 5000 more tree worshipping druids in the state of Colorado..."

Technically, none of the groups described there are insulting or inaccurate. Many asians are short, many Mexican immigrants are illiterate peasants, many blacks love rap, many whites drink beer, etc., etc. The problem is that the INTENT of his statement was to demean, denigrate, and marginalize people based SOLELY on their educational level. Rather than voice real problems, he blindly disregarded them as unworthy of consideration simply because they were different. That IS racism, even if the words he used technically weren't racist.

[mac2]

60. Or is he scared at what is happening to his country and

life? The "real problems" are not being addressed by his government and he's frustrated...and blaming. We are losing our sovereignty and borders. Thanks to the Bush administration and our corrupt government we are in chaos.

[treestar]

68. Scared by Mexican immigrants?

Baloney, that has been going on for 60 years, and it's our problem that we can't figure it out.

It is not scary compared to Iraq and the decmination of civil liberties that the * administration attempts.

If our economy is going bad, it's not their fault. It's our own fault for borrowing so much, going to war on a credit card, and always expecting to get something for nothing.

[angrycarpenter]

5. I hear it all the time in the construction industry

I have heard some pretty harsh things said about mexican labor. One of the most frequent things is "we need to get some mexicans to work here." It is mostly said when some particularly hard, dangerous, monotonous work is being done, like digging. This is the way that they are being treated all over. They are given the hardest most dangerous work because they will work harder that most Americans and complain far less.

We were sold out by the industry that we helped build, but who can blame them. I got my first construction job in 1986. Back then we were a bunch of drunken lazy stoners who were always broke and hung over on monday morning. No wonder when a much more reliable work force became availiable we were out. I have managed to remain employed for all but 3 months since. Competing with them has forced me to be more reliable and sober than I ever was then. We are better people because of them.

By the way "opprobrium" sent me to the dictionary, good job! That does not happen much.

[El Supremo]

6. We sure as hell need 5000 somebodys to work our crops.

We have a farm labor shortage. None of our home grown weenies want those jobs.

Migrant labor has been part of Colorado for ever.

This guy is not just insulting, he's loonier than a jaybird.

[Saturday]

11. You sound just like George W. Bush. nt

[mac2]

43. It wasn't so long ago that we gave tens of millions amnesty in

America. Did all those immigrants graduate from college? They don't work in the fields? Locals can't get jobs because the immigrant workers take them. In the city of Chicago whole companies have turned from local workers to immigrants. My spouce sees it all the time when doing engineering for the company.

[mac2]

45. Most our food crops don't come from here. They are imported.

Look at the abandoned farms in California.

[enid602]

7. foreign

I can't even imagine what it must be like to be foreign-born in this country these days.

[Fumesucker]

13. Speaking as someone foreign born..

It's not a problem as long as you don't look foreign or sound foreign..

I had an accent in grammar school as did my parents, they were both fluent in English when we immigrated and made sure I was fluent..

My parents were told "I love your accent".. I was told "You talk funny"..

[mac2]

19. As a Yankee I was told that by a Texan living in Tennessee

you talk funny. When she asked another lady whose husband was retired military (they lived all over the world)if I indeed didn't speak "funny". She said, not that I can tell.

I wanted to shout...you sound funny to me but then again I wouldn't insult you by saying that. I would think, you are rude and speak funny.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

49. Im Hispanic and my husband is a permanent resident from England,

and he gets treated better than I do.

[mac2]

58. If he's a man in our society, he is treated better regardless

of what country you come from. Now that jobs are scarce and our society is suffering we have gone backwards to negating all the progress women made over the years.

As I stated in previous posts...we are all fighting for the few crumbs left.

[jimmyflint]

12. These are people

can't we show a little compassion.

Both the liberal left and radical right in our government want them here. Sure, For different reasons but they both want them here.

Since theye are here we can treat them as people not peasants.

[mac2]

22. The elite treat us all as peasants. They think we should

work for them and not ask for good wages or benefits. We all fight over the few crumbs left.

[AlphaCentauri]

27. work for them and blame the immigrants

[mac2]

28. The blame goes both ways when people want jobs.

There are few good ones left for Americans. All of them gone to off-shore 3rd world countries.

When the job and corporations moved South from the North there was ill feelings. When they moved from the South to Mexico the same. Now Mexican jobs are moving to 3rd world countries. Mexicans flood here for jobs and get angry because they think we don't want them to have our jobs. Only a few are available period.

The whole world is going to have a plantation like society. America can not stay the same with such immigration and job loss. There will be the elite few plantation owners with the rest being surfs.

We get to all fight over the crumbs. Union busting by cheap labor and bad union bosses won't bring us a good life.

[ismnotwasm]

14. I love Dr. Estes

She has incredible compassion and insight.

[Bluebear]

15. She is definitely one of my personal heroines. nt

[Hekate]

38. Clarissa P. Estes is one of the greats, for sure. nt

[nam78_two]

20. Yet an illiterate moron in the Whitehouse is just fine and dandy

You know, there are lots of people all over the world who are "illiterate peasants" due to nothing more than their misfortune in being born into a poor family.
It takes a special kind of stupid to be born with a silver spoon in your mouth, have every single advantage of birth thrown at you and still turn out like this:



"We spent a lot of time talking about Africa, as we should. Africa is a nation that suffers from incredible disease." —Gothenburg, Sweden, June 14, 2001

"You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test.'' —Townsend, Tenn., Feb. 21, 2001

"Tribal sovereignty means that; it's sovereign. I mean, you're a — you've been given sovereignty, and you're viewed as a sovereign entity. And therefore the relationship between the federal government and tribes is one between sovereign entities." —Washington, D.C., Aug. 6, 2004

"I glance at the headlines just to kind of get a flavor for what's moving. I rarely read the stories, and get briefed by people who are probably read the news themselves." —Washington, D.C., Sept. 21, 2003

"The war on terror involves Saddam Hussein because of the nature of Saddam Hussein, the history of Saddam Hussein, and his willingness to terrorize himself." —Grand Rapids, Mich., Jan. 29, 2003

Funny thing about Republicans and their BS "Meritocracy rules" style of thinking is that if merit (by whatever standard you set for that metric) was what actually helped you get to the top, most of their evolution-rejecting, climate-change denying, racist, homophobic, moronic leaders wouldn't get anywhere :eyes:.

[TheWraith]

24. He's right. We clearly have all the state legislators we need. nt

[distantearlywarning]

59. Wow! So they're finally shutting down Focus on the Family?

:evilgrin:

[treestar]

67. The question is why do we not "need them?" Plenty of 19th

and 20th century immigrants were illiterate. Those who are doing well in a country do not emigrate. That's logical.

It's never hurt this country at all.