SUV owners who bitch about gas prices,

[edhopper]

are like people who voted for Bush twice and bitch about Iraq.
Just saying.

[islandmkl]

1. uhh....some of them DON'T bitch about Iraq...

just sayin', too....

[edhopper]

2. Uh?

My point.........................................................................................................You

[Donnachaidh]

3. oh yeah. let's place the blame on the consumers

Rather than point the finger at the futures market that is sending the price soaring. THAT would make sense!

So let's act just like the sheep that we've been trained to be - and blame each other. All together now --- BAAAAHHH! BAAHHHH!

:eyes:

[hatrack]

7. No, I'm going to blame the consumers

Initial disclaimer: no, I do not fault people for purchasing SUVs who have to haul lots of stuff around, or have a lot of kids (though a wagon might work as well) or live at the end of a stretch of bad road. They are, however, a minority of SUV owners, and I suspect a relatively small one.

1. Those who purchased Expeditions and Hummers and Dodge Mastodons and whatever the hell they drive knew full well at the point of purchase these cars were lousy on mileage. After all, there's that big green sticker in the back with the picture of the gas pump, and in many cases, these green stickers bore numbers like 12 and 14 and 16 for estimated MPGs.

2. They also knew, unless they suddenly left a Tibetan mountaintop or a monastery and walked into the dealership, that gasoline prices are not fixed, but tend to bounce up and down over time, and have been known to stay at very high levels for extended periods of time.

3. Some may also have suspected that the Earth does not have a creamy nougat center of petroleum just waiting for us to pound a Dairy Queen plastic straw into the ground to come gushing forth in all of its oozy oily goodness (and at low, low prices, too!)

Items 1-3 above are not state secrets, do not require a subscription to specific publications, or access to Bilderberg or CIA information. They are widely known, or at least widely available to anybody with the modicum of curiosity needed to initiate a spot of research.

So, what did these drivers do? They went ahead and bought great big inefficient vehicles. They bought vehicles with sucky efficiency, and now they're bitching about the fact that keeping up with the Joneses just got substantially more expensive.

Whatever. Actions have consequences, and they made their choice, and if they don't like it, they can trade down for something smaller. Above all, they can stop bitching about their own stupidity, which apparently wasn't really their fault, don't you know?

[Thirtieschild]

51. We bought a used gas guzzler in September

Knew what we were getting, felt guilty about it, had to have something that could manage our road. (The road had destroyed the oil pan on the Accord, which got great mileage but couldn't manage the boulders and gulleys on the road.) I drive it to town about once a week, have to drive it that often or the mice would make mincemeat out of it. They do a pretty good job as it is.

[hatrack]

52. Like I said at the top of my post, if you live on a bad stretch of road . . .

And it sure sounds like you do!

Best of luck dodging the arroyos! :toast:

[Javaman]

54. "Dodge Mastodons"...

:rofl:!!!!

[bunkerbuster1]

65. Not as funny as "Ford Excretions"

But, not bad.

[awoke_in_2003]

70. Don't forget

The Canyonero. It's a squirrel sqashin', deer smackin' driving machine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoPon3xuCjE

[dysfunctional press]

24. of course the consumer is to blame...

it's called supply and demand- the supply is going down, and demand is going UP.

[The2ndWheel]

36. We keep playing their game

While they own us today, corporations and governments only have the power that we give them. We just keep handing over more of it, that's all. In the name of security, or convenience, or efficiency, or any number of reasons.

[AlCzervik]

4. I have a friend that does animal rescue and she needs a large vehicle.

[PVnRT]

55. Some people have legitimate uses for them

No one is arguing against that. Farmers, contractors, horse breeders, they need full-size pickups; people like your friend need their SUVs. They're getting screwed as well by these people who buy those vehicles to show off how "badass" they are, or because they are blindly following the next hot trend.

[magellan]

5. I agree with you, and we own an SUV

Don't drive it much since we work from home, so no bitching here. If we had to commute then I'm afraid, much as we love our baby, we'd have already traded it in for the Prius we want.

[Fuzz]

6. Not really, it's the ones that say, and I swear I've seen posts like this

on FR, I'll consume as much as I want, or on days when you are asked to turn off lights, "I turned on ALL my lights", or 'I want as big a carbon footprint as possible'. Those folks for which I have no sympathy, the ones who continuously vote against their own economic interest and do and say stupid shit like that.

[bullwinkle428]

9. I know EXACTLY the type of poster you're talking about -

there's a Freeper-type guy that posts on another board I spend time at regularly, and he's mentioned that he spends as much money shopping at Wal-Mart as he can, "just because it pisses off liberals!" He also lists in his profile that he's a proud resident of "The Peoples' Republic of Maryland", a classic Freeperism if I've ever heard one!

[madinmaryland]

43. Hmmm! Sounds like the types out in western maryland!

I would be happy to have him kicked out of our state, with that attitude!

[malta blue]

8. I don't have an SUV, but I should considering the

amount of stuff I haul around on a regular basis - kid, HUGH tae kwon do bag for said kid, dogs (2), etc. Plus, I am looking to go into animal rescue and while I would be spending an extraordinary amount of money in gas on a regular basis, I think saving critters from euthanasia is worth it. So therefore, I will need an SUV and I WILL BITCH about the price of gas, but I will still have to pay for it, now won't I...

[Fumesucker]

10. A minivan will hold at least as much as an SUV

And get somewhat better gas mileage too if you stick to a smaller engine..

Even better is a trailer behind an economy car, when you need junk hauling capacity just hook up the trailer.

Not to mention that a trailer would keep possibly infested animals outside of your regular vehicle. If you have your own dogs you don't want them exposed to whatever parasites, diseases the rescued animals may have.

Kudos to you for going into animal rescue, BTW.

[Arctic Dave]

11. You read my mind.

[malta blue]

14. Thanks for the tips....

I will keep them in consideration - a small dilemma is the crappy snow that I have to deal with too - and I must say that I am spoiled by my Subaru with AWD and don't know that I can ever go without it....

:hi:

[Fumesucker]

20. If you already have an AWD Subaru

Get a trailer..

You can get everything you need to pull a trailer for around $200 - $225 from JC Whitney..

http://www.jcwhitney.com/Hitches-Towing-Trailers/600002309.jcw

I had one of the first Subaru 4WD wagons and it was a great little car. I paid $50 for it, drove it for 75,000 miles and sold it for $75.. The body was rusted out so bad you couldn't have locked a cat in it but it ran great and in 4WD it would go places the bigger trucks wouldn't, I used to routinely drive by big 4WD trucks that had slid off the road in snow and ice.. Enjoyed the nasty looks I used to get from the drivers.. :)

Honda makes an AWD Element..

http://www.edmunds.com/honda/element/review.html

[malta blue]

39. I am in the market for another Subaru

probably. Mine has 176,000 miles on it and is in need of about $1200 worth of repairs right now - most notably the exhaust system.

I will more than likely go that route soon.

[Lugnut]

21. My car has front wheel drive.

My car travels through snow very well. If there's enough snow for an emergency declaration which is common in the Pocono Mtns. I stay home as do most other people.

[Romulox]

48. *SOMEHOW* a Minivan is better for the environment than an SUV.

I'm just not sure how! :shrug:

[edhopper]

49. It gets better milage,

and is lighter, how's that

[Romulox]

62. Obviously not ALL minivans get better mileage than ALL SUVs! nt

[RadiationTherapy]

74. How is that "obvious"?

[LeftyMom]

53. I don't know about that, but they usually have more safety features.

Unless you need 4wd, a minivan is usually a better choice for a people hauler.

[NoGOPZone]

58. In general, minivans can do general people and cargo moving

more efficiently than SUVs. Many SUVs give up usable space for appearance and/or ground clearance. Where they excel is towing ability and off roading. So now you know.

[Romulox]

63. That hasn't a whit to do with fuel efficiency. nt

[NoGOPZone]

64. Indeed it does

Many SUVs that can compete with a minivans cargo and seating capacity get worse gas mileage.

[Romulox]

66. Right, but a single passenger in an minivan isn't more fuel efficient

because he could potentially carry more passengers or cargo than a similar suv.

Really, all that differentiates a "minivan" from an "suv" from a "crossover" is the hoodline, a sliding side door, and marketing. There's no special technology involved in minivan production.

[NoGOPZone]

67. Well OK, but I don't think anyone was trying to make those arguments nt

[Romulox]

73. People are arguing that minivans are (by their nature) more fuel efficient. Not true. nt

[NoGOPZone]

77. Define what you're interpreting as 'by their nature'

Is a single passenger in an minivan more fuel efficient than two in a SUV? Of course not. I don't think anyone said or implied they are. Is one person in a seven passenger minivan more fuel efficient than one in a seven passenger SUV? Usually because most seven passenger SUVs seem to have lower fuel efficiency ratings than most seven passenger SUVs. That's the point I think people are trying to make.


And I certainly don't see anyone even implying that there is special technology involved in minivan production, another issue you mentioned in your post.

[Fumesucker]

68. The point being though

That if you are buying a vehicle because you need cargo volume or passenger space, a minivan is a more efficient choice than an SUV, volume for volume and seating capacity for seating capacity.

[Romulox]

72. It's more efficient only if you use it efficiently; most people aren't using 100% of their capacity

Either w/r/t to cargo or passengers.

A single rider in an minivan isn't doing any favors for the environment compared with a single passenger in a similarly sized SUV.

[Fumesucker]

76. Once again..

People were making the argument that they *needed* the extra seating and cargo volume.

For those that truly need those characteristics a minivan is more efficient than an SUV.

That is the argument that is being made..

And the fact is that most people simply cannot afford to have more than a single vehicle, both for reasons of the initial cost and insurance, tags, registration, maintenance, parking space and so on.

Personally I would prefer to see people with smaller cars and foldable lightweight trailers for when they need to move cargo..

The trailer, hitch, wiring and everything can be bought for well under $700, possibly even under $500.

[NoGOPZone]

78. Nice! I've GOT to get me one of those!

Even my brother's Sentra should be good to tow a Class I.

Although I hate to laugh at people's misfortunate, You made me smile with your story above about people in SUVs giving you dirty looks as you passed them in a Subie on snow covered roads. I think a lot of people think a four wheel SUV makes them invincible in the snow, not realizing that the height and mass of their vehicles means a lot of weight transfer in corners, which can be deadly on a low traction surface.

[madmom]

79. Mini vans are the epitome of evil, I hate them and I hate driving anywhere around them!

[roody]

46. Ford Escape hybrid gets pretty good mileage.

[Arctic Dave]

12. There really is no need for an SUV.

Unless you are in construction or some trade were you haul around your own tools, etc. As for people who think they need one, do like I did. I got rid of my cool, go fast P/U and keep my wifes little Audi station wagon. When I "need" to haul some lumber (Do-it-yourself and gardening are some of my hobbies) I rent a truck from U-haul. This is a hell of a lot cheaper then keeping up the maintenance and filling up my truck. As for the wagon it sits 5 and has enough room in the back for any other stuff I got to haul.

[DRoseDARs]

33. I take it that you've never had the joy of bottoming out a car in ice and had AAA refuse to tow...

...because of the ice, you living in Alaska and all according to your profile ("Arctic" Dave made me curious to look... ;) ). Our nextdoor neighbors had this happen to them one frigid winter morning. Took three of us an hour just to get his sedan dug out enough that his wife's SUV could slowly tow him back to their driveway some 150ft away, which took another 5-10 minutes. And we live in *Reno, Nevada; we don't usually get winters that bad. I can only imagine what it's like in places that do.



*Though to be fair, we live in Washoe County's jurisdiction not the city of Reno's, so their ability to plow all the roads in their care is fairly limited compared to Reno's: They plowed our street once in 3 months that winter, the white shit just kept coming down.

[gollygee]

40. 4WD crossover SUVs get pretty good gas milage

my sister has a RAV4 and gets around well in bad weather, plus she gets around 25 or 26 mpg. She lives near Lake Michigan and that area gets covered by tons of snow in the winter, and her country doesn't have the money these days to plow the snow, so she needs a 4WD, but she still doesn't need an SUV.

[DRoseDARs]

41. "Crossover" is a term used to confuse issues and make people think they aren't driving a SUV.

Your post really sounds like it's contradicting itself, too. You say she needs it and then say she doesn't? :shrug:

[gollygee]

42. Crossover SUVs aren't nearly as large and get better gas milage

it's about fuel economy, not what the name is.

She needs 4WD. She does not need a gas guzzling full size SUV.

[Fumesucker]

71. It's been my experience with 4WD

That it just lets you get that much further away from civilization before you get stuck.. :evilgrin:

Knowing how and where (and where not) to drive under bad conditions is more likely to keep you out of trouble than 4WD most of the time.

[Fox Mulder]

61. There is no need for SUVs.

Except for those who, like you said, are in construction or farming or whatnot.

Otherwise, people who live in the city and who own SUVs are idiots. They shouldn't be complaining about gas prices.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

13. Especially SUVs with all wheel drive

Even when the SUV craze started in the mid 90s, I could never understand why anyone would want one unless they had to drive off-road or in dangerous snowy conditions. In places like Florida or southern California it makes absolutely no sense to me, yet you see them in the tens of thousands. SUVs are dangerous to other cars on the road and they don't protect you from a semi that jacknifes. There is no absolute protection on the road. And as to those people who have all-wheel drive monstrosities with automatic transmissions which is extremely inefficient and who only go off-road when they pull up on their driveway, it's even more stupid to me.

I've always been a fan of small, peppy, nervous cars that handle well. That's real driving to me. I don't want to be in an easy chair in my car as though I was slumped in front of the TV ready to dose off.

[KansDem]

16. "Off-road" vehicles rarely go "off road."

Kings of the Off-Road
Vehicle Percent of owners
who drive off-road
Acura MDX 1.4%
BMW X3 7.4%
BMW X5 4.3%
Cadillac Escalade 2.2%
Cadillac Escalade EXT 0.0%
GMC Yukon XL 6.1%
Infiniti FX 2.2%
Infiniti QX56 0.0%
Land Rover LR3 26.0%
Land Rover Range Rover 22.2%
Land Rover RR Sport 14.8%
Lexus GX 470 6.1%
Lincoln Navigator 9.1%
Mercedes M-Class 3.1%
Porsche Cayenne 10.5%
Subaru B9 Tribeca 3.5%
Volkswagen Touareg 9.8%
Volvo XC90 0.0%

Average Luxury SUV 7.15%

Source: AutoPacific Inc, 2006 Research Suite

Forbes Autos

Now, granted, these are "luxury 'off-road' SUVs." The article does mention "economy 'off-road' SUVs..."

While some lower-cost SUVs like the Jeep Wrangler and Nissan Xterra boast the largest percentage of “real” off-roader enthusiasts — Jeep says 60 to 80 percent of Wrangler owners take their vehicles to the trails — some large luxury models are equipped to tackle tough terrain. “The price of a Land Rover has always been higher than many other four-wheel-drive vehicles, based not just on luxury but on capability,” says Bob Burns, off-road events manager for Land Rover North America. “Range Rover customers want to buy the best and want to experience what their vehicles are built to do.” Go to the Land Rover Showroom to compare prices for different models.

But still, 60 to 80 percent isn't really that significant if you're buying an "off-road" vehicle to presumably "take it off road."

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

18. How often do those Wranglers go off the road?

Once a year? Twice a year on week-ends? Is off-road driving a necessary part of their lives to those Wrangler owners or an occasional joy ride? I would suspect Jeep of slanting the numbers to give their product that off-road mystique. And what percentage of all off road vehicles does the exceptional Jeep Wrangler represent? Apart from the Land Rovers, the other figures of off-road percentage driving look pretty dismal. I would also question whether a Jeep Wrangler is an SUV. It's a smaller vehicle, isn't it, some with manual transmissions?

[gollygee]

45. It drives me crazy when I'm behind some huge SUV with an upgraded offroad package

and the driver slows to a near stop and very very carefully proceeds over train tracks.

[Robb]

15. Well, mine actually makes my penis look bigger

Imagine my surprise. Women, really, they're quite fearful. I mean, it's really quite frightening, the size. It's like an armadillo in my trousers. :evilgrin:

All kidding aside, I'm that guy on the end of a snowy dirt road. Fortunately in the summer I can ride the motorbike at 78 mpg, which I figure sort of evens things out.

[provis99]

17. and I thought it was mainly women who wanted big SUV's? You know, soccer moms?

Maybe its penis envy.

[reformedrethug]

19. I am like you

I drive my SUV in the winter because we can get some pretty narly driving conditions up here, ice, snow, blowing snow, etc...

As soon as I can I break out the motorcycle and ride that till I cant stand it anymore so overall I figured it out, I average in a year of driving to and from work about 35-40 mpg. Hurts but safer in the winter, cheap and fun in the spring, summer, and fall.

[devilgrrl]

22. Not all SUV owners are bad. There's a reason for some of them. Now quit it!

:spank:

[MiniMe]

23. I have an SUV and right now I'm stuck with it

I do animal rescue, and I needed the room. When I bought it, it was before 9-11, gas was reasonable, and I had a very nice job where I made a decent living. Fast forward a few years, and I was laid off (thanks George), and when I could find another job, it was a lower paying job and I am just making ends meet. Making ends meet is getting harder and harder with the prices of things right now. I would love to get a Prius, Honda has a very nice hybrid Civic too. However, I can't afford it. I wouldn't get anything much for the trade-in now and I can't afford new car payments. Unemployment ate up all the savings I had.

I'm sure there are others out there like this. I have cut down on driving as much as I can to try to save on gas. I'd get a new one in a heartbeat, there is just the matter of paying for it.

[Fumesucker]

26. Gas saving cars don't have to be all that expensive..

I see cars that will get 30 mpg or more on the highway going for $1000 and under quite regularly on Craigslist in my city.

Cars with a stick shift usually go for less than an automatic of the same vintage and model because so few people can drive a stick any more.. Plus they almost invariably get at least a little better mileage than an automatic.

[michreject]

25. I don't bitch about my SUV

It gets better gas milage that my truck.:evilgrin:

[Bluebear]

27. Yeah, like dog breeders. And families with 6 kids...damn them all! Damn them!

:crazy:

[Fumesucker]

28. A minivan gets better mileage than an SUV

And will haul *more* crap..

SUVs are good if you are going to tow a trailer, other than that there are better choices for those who need a lot of interior volume.

There were no SUV's up until about 1980 or so and people managed to breed dogs and have large families..

I wonder how they did it?

[Miss Carly]

60. they put the kids and the dogs in the back of pickups :)

Carly

[Tesha]

30. Actually, minivans will accomplish either of those tasks better...

...and with substantially less fuel consumption.

Tesha

[Squatch]

29. My day on DU wouldn't be complete without an SUV-owner bashing thread

(This thread is especially great since it also has at least one penis-enlargement reference in it :))

[Tesha]

31. Life sucks. And so do SUVs. (NT)

[Squatch]

32. I actually rather enjoy my Grand Cherokee, thank you very much.

It's been a great car for us.

[DRoseDARs]

35. We love our Explorer, Bronco and Expedition & God help us, my stepdad gets an oil check each month.

Makes y'all sick, doesn't it? :rofl: :shrug:

Oil was found years and years ago beneath some farmland back in Illinois his family owns, and with the way oil is going it pretty much covers whatever we pay at the pump.

The Explorer was a graduation present from 1999, so it isn't like I sought a SUV. Anyway, whenever I finally get around to making an actual living wage (as opposed to the shit work I do now), I plan on getting at least a hybrid. Hell, probably by the time I finally make a decent wage, full-hydrogen vehicles will be coming to the mass market. :thumbsup:

[madmom]

82. As I do mine,Squatch!

[Medusa]

34. My SUV is alternative fuel capable

and yes, I use alternative fuel. :evilgrin: So there is no guilt or complaints from me.

[DRoseDARs]

37. What I'd like to see is companies converting existing vehicles to hybrid/plug-in/hydrogen etc.

Why would I want to spend 20-30k or more for a brand new non-petrol when I can spend a few thousand to convert whatever I'm already driving? Hopefully, within the next decade as hybrids get plug-in capability and the hydrogen economy begins to form, we'll see such a niche market expand.

[Lex]

38. I don't feel their pain when they have to gas those guzzlers up.

nt

[edhopper]

44. OP here

Let's see what I really said. Was it "All SUV owners are bad." or "No one should ever own an SUV."
No, I said that SUV owners who BITCH (operant word) about the price of gas might consider that they are part of the problem.
BTW I live in New York. I see a lot of SUVs, too many for an urban setting. Though some are obviously being used for work, far too many have a just a driver no occupants and are not commercial vehicles. A super clean Cadillac or Lexus SUV is just a trophy and a silly car for city driving. IMHO

[Romulox]

47. Just like people who move to Arizona and whine about the cost of A/C. nt

[Indenturedebtor]

50. Worse

"Original Message
Just like people who move to Arizona and whine about the cost of A/C. nt
Posted by Romulox"

-----

It's like people who move to AZ, whine about the heat, and who grow massive lawns and temperate climate gardens in spite of the fact that we're running out of water.

If you live in the snow, and i mean REAL snow as in no plows in your area, or you actally use an SUV at least 3 days a week for work, then buy an SUV.

I sold cars for 3 years. The vast majority of SUV purchasers didn't even remotely need the damn thing. And most people simply didn't care at all about gas mileage. Unfortunately they're going to make the rest of us suffer with their bad choices and stupidity.

I think you should have to get a permit to own one, and it can't be your only vehicle. Horrible contraptions.

[conflictgirl]

56. Except for the ones who are now stuck with a vehicle they can't sell

Honestly I know quite a few people who bought SUVs a few years ago and didn't expect gas prices to go this high. And a lot of people have no idea exactly how much it's going to cost to fill up an SUV and they just make an estimate, which ends up being way low. (I suspect this happened with my mom, who had to get a new vehicle last fall after a fire and got a "good deal" on a GMC Envoy - she has mentioned a couple times that the cost of filling it up is more than she expected).

I personally hate SUVs and have an extremely fuel-efficient car that I bought *because of* its fuel efficiency - there was another model I was considering that I liked better, but I bought this one for its better gas mileage. So I get the need to be a conscious consumer and I live it every day. But I also get the fact that a lot of the SUV drivers out there are just regular people who might have been a bit naive when they bought their vehicles and are now stuck with cars they can't afford to fill up but can't offload on to anyone else either. Its not the case with my mom, but I know a LOT of people who are upside-down on their loans on SUVs and desperately want to get rid of them and get something more fuel efficient instead and they can't afford it. Think about the fact that a lot of people have lost jobs or are underemployed and the situation they're in - they don't exactly have the financial resources to just go out and get a different car, but most communities are not designed for living without a car so in the meantime they just have to suck it up and find a way to keep paying the rising costs of gas.

I'm not saying we should bail everyone out because sometimes it takes a little pain to get people to change. But what's wrong with having some compassion for people?

[libodem]

57. .

:cry: :nopity: :cry: boo fuckin' hoo

[Miss Carly]

59. anyone who lives north of nebraska

a big hardy vehicle is almost a necessity, the ice/snow/potholes from the ice/snow, deer etc...
hit a deer in SD while driving a Prius and see what happens, big deer there...

[Fumesucker]

69. I live in the deep South..

We have lots of deer down here too.. I've even hit one in a small Nissan pickup.

Get up in the Blue Ridge Mountains only a few miles from my home and we have bears also.

[Indenturedebtor]

75. Yes it's a danger

It's also a danger to drive a midsize car and to be hit by an SUV. I'll take the deer. My question though is at what point does the need to feel safe from deer and SUVs supercede the need to be safe from global collapse and the destruction of the planet?

:shrug:

People seemed to make due a couple decades ago before SUV's were available. No one needs one they want one.

[rucky]

80. All those profits will be pumped back into the economy.

that's why Raygun told me. I'm sure it'll happen any day now.

[deaniac21]

81. This will haul around those soccer players.

http://my.freeway.net/~pwrwgn/PW~M35A2.htm