Does the world expect too much of ordinary Americans?

[KitSileya]

Is the rest of the world being unfair when they blame everyday Americans for the ills that have been wrought by the Maladministration and by Congress? Do we blame the Zimbabwians for letting Mugabe into power the same way we blame Americans for Bush? Or are we putting Americans into a special category, and expect more from them than we do from North Koreans, Pakistanis, Iranians, etc?

With 2 out of 3 presidential candidates (that I know of) saying they're willing to go to war against Iran, even nuclear war, this question is more relevant than ever. Should we blame ordinary Americans for not being willing to sacrifice everything to overturn the media propaganda empire, the malignant Republicans, the spineless Democrats, and stop the destruction of the world? Looking at Tibetans, at the Burmese, does the world fault Americans for not being willing to risk death (or heck, economic destitution) to protest what has happened, and is happening in their country?


edited for spelling

[madeline_con]

1. "With 2 out of 3 presidential candidates

(that I know of) saying they're willing to go to war against Iran, even nuclear war..."

It's obvious who to vote for.

[Rage for Order]

53. You mean the one who wants to bomb Pakistan instead?

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0132206420070801

Obama said if elected in November 2008 he would be willing to attack inside Pakistan with or without approval from the Pakistani government, a move that would likely cause anxiety in the already troubled region.

"If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will," Obama said.

[lumberjack_jeff]

2. No. If we're exporting democracy, we need to prove that we know something about it. n/t

[mrreowwr_kittty]

8. So says a supporter of one of the 2 nuclear war boosters. nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

11. Aren't you afraid that hanging out with us "racists"...

... might be contagious?

Probably no reason to worry, it is probably no more contagious than good manners, and that's clearly not an epidemic.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

12. Racism is "good manners"?

Not where I come from.

[lumberjack_jeff]

13. No. Here, let me explain.

You called me a racist. Then you called me a male republican asshole. Then you called me a misogynist. Then you followed me to this thread to poke me some more.

I just pointed out that you're not demonstrating the good manners that most of the better posters on DU demonstrate. On account of your assholishness, you see.

I can see now that I was trying to be too subtle. I quipped that my "racism" might rub off on you, but that was probably a small risk because my good manners doesn't.

Now run along to bed. You can show the post to your english teacher when you get to school, she'll explain.

In the meantime, do the civilized world a favor and avoid talking to anyone who might be considering voting D in November, m'kay?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

14. Okay, so you're a racist and misogynist.

I already knew that. Good night. And keep campaigning for Hillary! :hi:

[lumberjack_jeff]

17. No, it's just you I don't like. n/t

[mrreowwr_kittty]

18. Oh, I know you don't like black people or women.

You are just pretending to like women because you "support" Hillary.

But I know you still don't like women.

G'night, George.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

20. And all other women and black people. Good night, Mr. Hannity. nt.

[KitSileya]

15. Ok, it seem there's more going on between the two of you

than my little thread, so I'll let you duke it out in PMs, ok?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

19. Ugh, I'd rather not. I've been stalked by far too many of his kind as it is. nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

21. The posts in this thread make apparent who's stalking who. Go away. n/t

[mrreowwr_kittty]

26. Talk to me about stalking

When I'm PMing you repeatedly, finding out your personal information, and attempting to contact you IRL.

Typical MRA behavior. Exaggerating your experience to act like it compares with what women go through.

[lumberjack_jeff]

27. no.

[DS1]

3. Americans are unbelievably ignorant regarding other countries.

It makes me sick.

[bdamomma]

28. and other countries know it too.

we are poorly not politically savvy like Europeans are, maybe it's because they have seen their own countries destroyed in WW2, and we have not experience anything like that since the Civil War.

[Echo In Light]

29. ...as well as the true nature of their own.

What the govt of a representative democracy does, it does in the name of its citizenry ... and with our tax $ as well.

[moondust]

50. Yet Americans insist on being a "superpower" and "leading the world."

The arrogance is oppressive.

[melody]

4. No other national is judged as harshly as our people are

We finance the "protection" of the west -- the protection of countries that can afford full health care for its citizens.
It always amazes me that we're as disliked as we are.

We were far more aware citizens before the globalists attacked our educational system.

What we need to do is start taking care of those ordinary Americans instead of policing the world. Let all those "aware"
world citizens foot the bill for the world's "protection". Let us go back to educating our own and *maybe* even providing
health care.

[Donnachaidh]

6. protection? We use that LIE to build EMPIRE

We don't *protect* anyone - even ourselves. Our government has used that LIE to bully other countries. Our armed forces are spread around the globe to *protect* the interests of BIG BUSINESS.

We're NOT going to get universal health care in this country because too many businesses make too much MONEY charging us for it. When an albuterol puffer costs close to a hundred bucks here, and Cubans can buy them for 25 cents? :eyes:

[napoleon_in_rags]

7. Beautiful, your response and what it was to.

Melody's post was a more traditionally conservative narrative than yours, but its interesting that they say the exact same thing, stop the global protection game and start domestic work before this country becomes an unveiled third world nation.

[melody]

35. Traditionally conservative? Why?

Because I don't automatically blame our people for what the government has done? I'm afraid I'm far too well aware of how little power we have anymore.

But thank you for recognizing that was my point -- we need to stop playing nursemaid to the world. Let the bloody UN do what it's supposed to do. And let everyone participate in its financing.

[napoleon_in_rags]

54. I didn't mean it in a bad way.

I meant it in the old fashioned way, when conservatism was a respectable thing associated with small government and non-interventionism abroad. Of course those days are long gone...

[Echo In Light]

57. These views are deeply entrenched from decades of rightist propaganda

It's one of the unfortunate ways that the left in this country, or what passes for it, is strategically geared toward appeasing rightist views and aims {"moderate dem"} while simultaneously relegating the left to obscure margins {"tinfoil," "weak," "conspiracy theorist," etc} ... all opportunistically comfy-cozy like within Establishment framework.

[Echo In Light]

58. Melody - that wasn't directed at you in particular, as your views are more well rounded than that

[napoleon_in_rags]

59. I see it as the difference between Marxism and Soviet rule.

The conservatives talk a good game with there ideals, but we have seen now how the implemented reality has nothing to do with it, its about bast spending and big government. Its the same with Marxist ideals, they really aren't bad at all, but the Soviet implementation was a very different beast.

[melody]

33. Whether we are or aren't "protecting" anyone isn't the question -- we ARE paying for it

That's my issue. I want the money kept here to take care of OUR people is my point.

Sorry, I'm a liberal isolationist.

[KitSileya]

16. I guess the question is whether the world appreciates having the US as police

I'm sure Iraq doesn't, but Europe, on the other hand, has fallen in line with the regards to the missile shield, probably because they know the big role the US has played in their defence since WWI. There might be some resentment, tho', especially now that they're trying to work together and fulfill that role themselves.

[melody]

34. Oh, I hope they do -- and I hope they have to pay for it also

Maybe then we can give our own people the same benefits.

We need to stop playing global policeman. If Europe is so desirous of doing that then let them. I love the idea
of 200 years of protectionism and taking care of our own borders and our own people.

[KitSileya]

38. Well, Norway was the only one to voice concern about this shield

and being such a small country wasn't heard very well. I guess there's been a tit-for-tat concerning defense between the US and Europe - and as for the US as the world's policeman, I think none are so desirous that you stop playing that role as the world itself. You meddle and mess up and makes things worse, but you're so darn powerful telling you no is like belling the cat. Which is why the rest of the world recognizes that a lot of the responsibility for stopping the madness that is the US government must lie with the American people. If we interfere, things might go very, very, very wrong. An internal uprising has a better chance of not devolving into nuclear war.

[melody]

45. Why blame a people who don't even have medical care or a decent educational system?

I live in California ... I'm extremely fortunate to live in a state big and liberal enough to set our own standards and even
then we are hampered by the US government. I'm in favor of peaceful secession at this stage which is very sad in that my
family has been in the US so long that American is my only ethnicity. I have no other heritage.

There are states so poor, they exist at Third World levels and yet Europe has continued to curry favor with the right-wing
US government that has, since Reagan, destroyed our infrastructure. Your leaders know very well that our system has been
taken over by a coup. They know our elections are coached if not outright staged. They know. And yet they continue in a
farce in which they have far, far more to say than the average American. Do you honestly think Bush and his entire cabal
didn't intend to destroy our government once and for all? Gosh, I wonder why that might have happened.

Why do you save your hatred for the average American? Why not throw some of the venom at the world leaders who allow it to happen?
You don't think Stoltenberg might have a *little* more pull than I do? Norway is always in the top ten of nations giving to
charity yet the Appalachian Hunger Project which oversees food distribution to an area of the US so ravaged by poverty that it
truly is the Third World there, hasn't seen one cent of aid. Some of the world stepped up and tried to help during Katrina,
but it is the exception.

The globalists have been very clever since our takeover and especially in the wake of Ronald Reagan -- they have skillfully made
their #2 victims (second only to the good people of Iraq), the American people, the evil in the eyes of the world. Ergo, no one
will care when we're stomped into the ground.

But then they'll go onto you. And if you don't think they're in the EU, I would assure you they are.

[mr blur]

40. Well, I suppose you piss the rest of us off more than anyone else does

Constantly boasting about how wonderful you are and how backward the rest of us are and then whining because we don't share your opinion that the US is "Number 1". Plus, you've twice elected a man who is, without a doubt, the dumbest, greediest most amoral national leader on the planet.

[melody]

46. I haven't said a word to you ... when have I?

Your constantly lumping 300 million people together distorts your vision. You don't hear people around you braying about how Americans are backward and stupid? About how *your country* is the best? Oh, but yours is, so it's different, right?

See, there's a lot of that going around.

And we did not elect Bush either time -- Bushes don't have to be elected. They elect themselves.

[lostnfound]

44. I think that protection probably is largely an excuse to sell military hardware.

I know that in the case of Japan, they are paying us to have troops there, but the arrangement is quite unpopular with the Japanese people.

[melody]

47. Yes, but the leaders share in the largesse. There are kickbacks and there are kickbacks

Regardless, the money shouldn't come from us. The complicity of the world leaders in "accepting" the "protection"
is a big part of the problem. Yet Americans get all the blame when they have little say in the matter (little if any).
That sounds like more of bigotry than reality to me.

[Donnachaidh]

5. Not at all -- Americans need to step up to the plate.

Of course, most only know how to scream *We're number one*. And most would fail any real test on their own history, let alone world history.

That's the problem with being arrogant loudmouths. Eventually someone is going to ask you to back up the mouth with actions. And we're not prepared to do that, as long as American Idol is on. :sarcasm:

[KitSileya]

22. I'm not sure I understand you

Even with your sarcasm tag. Are you saying that the entire 'we're number one' spiel isn't being spouted by ordinary Americans, and that they're aren't just interested in mind-numbing entertainment? Or are you saying that Americans are ignorant and self-aggrandizing, and therefore deserve being called out to stand by their claims?

[melody]

36. We're not arrogant loudmouths and most of us don't watch American Idol

But hey, we can't all be superior people like you are. ;)

[snot]

9. Do we blame ordinary Germans?

The answer is, yes and no.

If you've walked a mile in their shoes, no. Bear in mind, brain-washing via mass media has advanced considerably in the last 6 decades.

If you want to make the things better, you have to say, we MUST do better.

[nichomachus]

49. Many "ordinary" Germans were onboard with Hitler

no matter what anyone tells you.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

10. Americans have had every conceivable advantage.

Now, I realize that there's been a concerted effort to dumb down our educational system and news media to create the perfect storm of ignorance and complacency, but still. People who are well fed and have access to a multitude of information have little excuse for failing to put two and two together.

And you know what? I think they have figured it out. The only way the Repukes are going to win this year is to steal it.

[Peace Patriot]

23. I completely agree, and they've had some stuff figured out for quite a while.

I keep telling people this, and I can document it if I have to: 56% of the American people opposed the Iraq War from the beginning, just before the invasion (Feb. '03, NYT poll; other polls 54-55%). 56%! That's a significant majority. But if you'll remember back to late '02-early '03, it was nowhere evident in the corporate news monopolies that a SIGNIFICANT MAJORITY of the American people--enough for a landslide in a presidential election--opposed the war. The polls were back-paged, and the headlines and the airwaves were solid with war propaganda. A lot of Americans must have been wondering--like I was, before I discovered these polls--what the hell kind of goose-stepping lunatics OTHER Americans had become. And now it has grown to a whopping, epochal 70% who oppose this war and want it ended--possibly the biggest anti-war majority in history. And it's not just the war. Polls I looked at over the 2003-2005 period show that the American people oppose virtually every Bush policy, foreign and domestic--way up in 60% to 70% range on many issues.

The American people are much better informed that they are given credit for. The questions then become, 1) Who the hell voted for Bush, other than the 30% percent of rightwing wackos and knuckle-draggers we've always had with us, and the five people who own the country and the news media, and 2) How did their votes get doubled?

Creating the PERCEPTION that there is no significant dissent--let alone MAJORITY dissent--is a technique of disinformation and brainwashing. It was very effective at isolating progressives, and making them feel powerless and demoralized--those against unjust war, those against torture, those who thought no-bid contracts for Cheney's buds were illegal--your typical American citizen and member of the justice-loving, peace loving, open government-loving American MAJORITY. One difference between Americans and folks in other countries--although you'd think we would have learned by now--is our faith in democracy, and especially in the electoral process, that the country's course can be changed. It just didn't occur to many people that the political establishment would go to the extraordinary trouble of installing a whole new vote counting system, run on 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code, owned and controlled by rightwing Bushite corporations, with virtually no audit/recount controls.

The majority was NOT fooled by the Iraq War B.S. It had "learned the lessons of Vietnam." But it WAS fooled by "trade secret" vote counting, which was kept way, way below the radar of most people (primarily by means of Democratic Party leadership collusion; people had faith in this party to alert them to electoral danger, and they failed us and betrayed us). I think people felt that FLA '00 was unique, and simply didn't believe that the entire political establishment would seek ANOTHER way to steal elections, and keep these fuckwad war criminals in office.

I remember back in mid-2004. I am a very well-informed American, but I had only just gotten the first hints that electronic voting systems were a problem, about six months before the election. Indeed, I felt kind of smug cuz we had a good Secretary of State, at that point--Kevin Shelley--and I felt I didn't have to worry about my own state, California. If there was a problem, it would be in one of the battleground states--Pennsylvania or Ohio, or maybe Texas, or maybe Florida again. That was the status of my knowledge about our voting system. I didn't know a touchscreen from an optiscan, nor did I have any inkling what a vile and dangerous piece of legislation the 'Help America Vote Act' had been. I think now that that bill WAS the fascist coup. Mid-2004, I had only vague, uninformed misgivings.

And this probably means that 99% of the American people had no warning at all, and no clue how this horrible little man who had started an unjust war with a pack of lies, and who was permitting torture in Iraq, could have been re-elected. But that soon changed. A lightbulb went off in some of our heads, and we soon hunted down the story on the voting machines, and followed the investigations in Ohio.

Demoralized and disempowered by an entirely false narrative of American support for the war, played out by the war profiteering corporate news monopolies, the majority of Americans were vulnerable to the lies and deception of the same media as to the re-election of Bush/Cheney. And they actively lied and deceived people about that election. For instance, they DOCTORED their own exit polls, which showed a Kerry win, to force them to match the results of the "trade secret" programming--that Bush won--and they never said a single word about the "trade secret" code and the total, and very NEW, non-transparency of the voting system.

The non-transparent vote counting system is still in place, and very likely played a role in giving us a "Blue Dog" Congress (pro-war Democrats). A lot of things have changed and improved, but Bushite corporations STILL have great power over election results. Insider flipping votes in this system is easy, quick and undetectable--except by inferential means, such as exit polls (real ones--not doctored ones). Awareness about the voting system has vastly improved. Reforming it has proven more difficult, though. It got entrenched very quickly--with the $3.9 billion electronic voting boondoggle from the Anthrax Congress, which resulted in extensive corruption throughout our election system at the local level. The Bushite grip on the Dept. of Justice has loosened, and a lot of work has been done to try to prevent the outrages against black voters that occurred in Ohio. There is reason for hope, all deriving from the awakened citizenry, of which the grass roots Obama supporters are just one example. There are noble Americans out there fighting like hell against corrupt election officials and the rotten private corporations that took over our election system. The people ARE figuring things out, even the things that have been well hidden from them, such as the rigged voting machines.

And it may well be possible to outvote the machines. The corporations involved do not want to lose their grip on our election results, so it's a question how much of a flip they would risk. In '04, they flipped 4 million votes--but nobody knew about them then. Now they know. Now people are watching. And it won't take much for a full scale, pitchfork rebellion against the voting machines to develop.

I think that's why Edwards, Kucinich and possibly Biden were aced out early in the campaign--pre-emptive strikes against the possibility that the people can outvote the machines. Edwards, oddly enough--though he voted for the war--was a much bigger danger to the Corporate Rulers than Obama is. I don't think Obama intends serious reform. His supporters do, but I think they are in for a disappointment. He strikes me as one of these corporate P.R. people babbling about "win-win," and how "green" they're going to be. However, I don't think we can expect a real reformer to get anywhere near the White House, not yet. We have to work with what the reality is right now. And the activated citizenry that supports Obama, and will be responsible for his win, if they can achieve it, is a very good sign. They will lead the reform effort, at all levels of our society, even if he drags his feet, and even if he gets Diebolded.

[raccoon]

31. Great post, especially the following:

"One difference between Americans and folks in other countries--although you'd think we would have learned by now--is our faith in democracy, and especially in the electoral process, that the country's course can be changed."

"I think that's why Edwards, Kucinich and possibly Biden were aced out early in the campaign--pre-emptive strikes against the possibility that the people can outvote the machines..."

"I don't think we can expect a real reformer to get anywhere near the White House, not yet."

[melody]

37. Determining the nature of the majority by a sampling of a minority of its members is bigotry

I've had NO conceivable advantage ... maybe you were born from wealthy people, but I wasn't.

[canetoad]

24. I answer your question with another question.

Do you believe that DU is representative of the best the USA has to offer?

I'll share something you may not like hearing. A fair proportion of the world does not give a flying fuck about the agonies endured by 'everyday Americans' because they are busy dealing with the realities of their own everyday lives. We don't fear you, we tend to laugh at you. At your ignorance of world affairs, your childlike clinging to documents and politicians long dead and irrelevant while your freedom is being eroded before your eyes and the best you can do is spout bile about your countrymen and women instead of looking for ways to reconcile your country.

If you go to war with Iran how much support will you find from the rest of the world? The coalition of the willing is dead. People have woken up to the posturing of the neo-cons. I don't think anyone else is much interested in what America does, so it really is up to you lot to stop being keyboard warriors and start putting your money where your mouth is. If you want to be taken seriously.

[KitSileya]

25. One caveat - I'm not American myself.

As you can see from my profile, I reside in Norway.

That's why I asked Americans if they thought they were being judged to harsher standards than other nations with dictators, propaganda machines, surpression etc. The background was that I made a remark with regards to the magnificient speech of Alan Shore on the latest Boston Legal episode, on how his telling truth to power should shame Americans across the nation. (Yeah, I was feeling pretty belligerent at the moment, and I do realize that the remark was over the top, but there was a grain of truth in it.) A rebuttal from a friend made me think - we feel sorry for Zimbabweans, we cheer Tibetan and Burmese monks, but we blame Americans for what their Maladministration does. Is that fair? Do we hold them to a higher standard?

As for whether DU is representative of the best US has to offer? To some extent, yes. Politically, they're as a group more humane, more socialist, more willing to give than the large majority of Americans. They're not angels, and there are enough quarrelsome, stubborn, blind individuals to make one crazy. But no one who saw the way they've responded to the crises of different members can deny they're a great bunch.

[Indenturedebtor]

32. Good thread and important questions to be asked

The problem with America today is that we have been SO heavily propagandized for generations now, while our education system has been undermined, and we are forced to work more, and work harder than any other nation on earth. People dont have the time or the means that they're aware of to BE informed. Most Republican voters that I've had sufficient time with (like through work etc) will start agreeing with my socialist anti-corporate anti-war arguements when they actually get to hear them. But they don't get exposed to them.

To understand what life is like in America you have to walk a mile in our shoes for a couple of years. There are two kinds of people in the US - People who have travelled outside of the US outside of a tourbus, and People who haven't. Everyone is brainwashed from birth to think that we have it the best here of any country in the world... that we are the best, that our democracy works the best. We are constantly told "There is no problem, a good prole is a happy prole, you are weak if you are unhappy, here is your news. If you don't believe the news you are a wingnut. Corporations care about you. Corporations are patriotic. The history of the country rests on the shoulders of the rich. The poor are evil and lazy." and so on.

Leaving the country and getting a taste for what life without propaganda is like is a HUGE eye opener. Seeing how other countries, even "poorer" countries can have it SO much better than we do really changes how you view our system. At least that's how it went for us, and I don't know anyone that left the US for at least 2 months that doesn't have a good grasp on how awful life is here. That life beats you down emotionally to the point where you don't even want to question anything. Bleh I'm rambling here. But it's our damn country and we need to WAKE THE FUCK UP!

[canetoad]

41. Oops. Sorry about that

Should have done my research.

[bdamomma]

30. I like your bi line of Think For Yourself and Question Authority.

this is something that many of us have lacked: Questioning authority.

[Indenturedebtor]

43. First of all your honesty is appreciated

Secondly the hatred for the people of this country is an international sport and you know it. Listen to you for example:

--------

I answer your question with another question.
Posted by canetoad
Do you believe that DU is representative of the best the USA has to offer?

I'll share something you may not like hearing. A fair proportion of the world does not give a flying fuck about the agonies endured by 'everyday Americans' because they are busy dealing with the realities of their own everyday lives. We don't fear you, we tend to laugh at you. At your ignorance of world affairs, your childlike clinging to documents and politicians long dead and irrelevant while your freedom is being eroded before your eyes and the best you can do is spout bile about your countrymen and women instead of looking for ways to reconcile your country.

If you go to war with Iran how much support will you find from the rest of the world? The coalition of the willing is dead. People have woken up to the posturing of the neo-cons. I don't think anyone else is much interested in what America does, so it really is up to you lot to stop being keyboard warriors and start putting your money where your mouth is. If you want to be taken seriously.


--------------

We have been taken over by a Facist Oligarchy that uses all the tools of modern mind control to bend us to their will. Many if not most of the people here on DU are heavily involved in politics and protests... what else would you have us do? Throw molitov cocktails?

The people of America are no more genetically stupid or intelligent than the people of any other country in the world. And the people of DU are trying to change the system that has failed us and caused our problems.

But don't backhandedly deny the contributions of America to the last hundred years of world history. Not all of them have been good, but not all of them have been bad either.

Personally I would care for you if your country was overrun by facists... in fact I'm pretty sure that at one time it was or was about to be and my grandparents helped you out.

But if you care so little for what happens in America then why be on DU? :shrug: No offense. Personally I think we could use your help and the help of the world to fix what's ailing us.

[Javaman]

39. naaa, they stupidly believe that we should stand up for our rights.

I mean pul-eeease. that is soooooo last century.

[treestar]

42. Yes, because we had the chance to elect those who make the policies

Also, we decided to bomb Afghanistan, because they let the Taliban into power which let Al Qaeda roam, therefore, the people who lived there apparently "deserved" to be bombed, if we hold others to this standard, we can take responsbility ourselves, especially since we specifically had a system that allowed us to choose the people who put these policies into practice.

We have more say over who are leaders are than they do in Iraq or Afghanistan, so continually claiming it's all Bush's fault overlooks the fact we let Bush get into office with a republican congress (in 2004 we could have avoided letting him have another republican congress) - so it's not just Bush.

Now we elect a Congress nominally Democratic, but still those leaders don't think we want to impeach Bush.

And we don't seem to be marching in the streets that much, or pressuring Bush in any way to get him to stop doing what he is doing.

So to the rest of the world, it seems fair enough that they hold us somewhat responsible.

[Hydra]

48. As someone pointed out about the good Germans further up

Yes, we deserve the flak- this is our nation, and we as a people are allowing them to rape, pillage, torture and kill in our names with our labor.

The reality of the myth of the "good german", however, lay in 1 simple fact- if you weren't a "good german", you were a dead one.

I am not a "good american" and I fully expect that to lead me to a mass grave at some point. I also have no real way to fight back since most of my people are sitting on their hands, passively supporting all of this.

Is it my fault? Yes. Can I do anything about it? Nope. Should we be held accountable, given our lack of power?

Yes.

Because we lack the WILL to stop it.

[Canuckistanian]

51. Let's put it this way - not any more.

Face it, Americans have NEVER been universally loved.

But for the most part, among developed countries (and some 3rd world countries), America has been respected, held in awe, admired, envied and yes, even feared.

America was IT. The pinnacle. The "standard". The one everyone emulated. Sometimes the one that attracted the best and brightest from other countries, looking for the ultimate fulfillment of their dreams.

Not any more.

In the span of a few decades, America has lost it's "prestige" in many areas. And yes, I include the Clinton years as a major part of that decline in world opinion.

Now, that decline has been greatly amplified by the current clowns in charge of the "great ship of state".

War, human rights abuses, dubious alliances, financial disasters and general supreme arrogance have not exactly won world opinion.

"With us or against us" is not a rallying cry. It is a threat.

I look at the next election as a chance to partially reverse that perception.

But candidly, I'm not overly impressed by what I see so far.

I hope I'm wrong.

[bobbolink]

52. Don't blame me. I wanted Edwards in the Oval.

:shrug:

[LeftishBrit]

55. Well, I'm part of 'the rest of the world'...

and it's never occurred to me to blame ordinary Americans for everything that their government does. I wouldn't like to be held responsible for everything that mine does!

There is certainly anti-American sentiment in Britain and Europe; but I think it mostly comes from (a) not distinguishing between the government and the country (rather than explicitly blaming the people for not opposing their government enough); and (b) longstanding influence of bad TV series featuring crime in America!

[clyrc]

56. People from other countries don't understand how

much time Americans have to work, with the massive burden of health care still hanging over them in most cases. There are lots of things people from other countries don't understand about Americans, and the longer I live outside the US the less sense I can make of what I was raised to believe.

After nearly five years as an expat, I'm still surprised at who does and who doesn't like Americans. I've had Iranians, Pakistanis and Indians tell me they love America. I've met Brits and Germans who seem to feel nothing but contempt for us. I've had mixed reactions, but they've been better than I would have thought. On a few occasions I felt like claiming to be Canadian, but only a few times.