Universal Health Care ~ It Ain't Rocket Science

[tucsonlib]

Just prior to the implementation of Britain's National Health Service, a pamphlet was distributed to every British household. It read:

“Your new National Health Service (NHS) begins on 5th July. It will provide you with all medical, dental and nursing care. Everyone, rich or poor, man, woman or child could use it or any part of it. There are no charges except for a few special items. There are no insured qualifications, but it is not a charity. You’re paying for it mainly as taxpayers and it will relieve your money worries in times of illness”

This was in 1948!

Yes, their system is far from perfect. But shouldn't any plan for health care reform in the U.S. begin with a similar, beautifully simple, straightforward statement of purpose?

Imagine....

[EvolveOrConvolve]

1. Watching Sicko brought tears to my eyes

The idea that Americans could get free, top-notch medical care in Cuba while the fucking insurance companies in American continued to try to kill them was very very sad. The fact that these were 9/11 survivors made it even worse.

I consider myself fiscally conservative, and a 100% Universal Health Care plan could be one of the most fiscally astute decisions of a generation. Like you said - it ain't rocket science.

On Edit: sadly, this thread will probably get few responses. Even most progressives seem to have given up on the issue.

[Juche]

4. far cheaper

http://www.house.gov/conyers/news_hr676_2.htm

$387 billion in savings from overhead and price negotiations. Plus savings from better preventative care would probably be added in later.

[SammyWinstonJack]

5. Well according to Sen Schumer, most of us don't want universal health care.

:eyes: :silly:

[nichomachus]

6. He could be right

I think it's been so demonized that a lot of people don't want it. They're told all sorts of phony horror stories about medical care in countries that have some sort of universal plan. Even otherwise reasonable people that I talk to will repeat that propaganda.

[SammyWinstonJack]

9. I don't think he's right. Now if he had said that the health insurance companies don't want it,

that would have been more believable.

[nichomachus]

10. But they have convinced people that they don't want it

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. Wrong. What the people are afraid of is a propagandized version

of universal health care - not the real thing. If they know what it really is, they want it. I promise.

[RaleighNCDUer]

13. Coming from the guy who has guaranteed health care for life. nt

[Billy Burnett]

7. Cuba has it because Cubans demanded it, then they worked to create it.

We have American idol.

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. Even most progressives seem to have given up on the issue.

At least for the moment - because we're all caught up in Hillary's plan vs Obama's plan -- neither of which is universal health care.

I think that once Obama is in the WH he will be amenable to move in that direction, however.

[SammyWinstonJack]

2. Lets see. Four lobbyists for every member of Congress. I think that is the correct #.

Lots of reasons($$$) for our "representatives" not to give us all "socialized medicine" which is what members of Congress enjoy and apparently feel entitled too.

Everyone else can go pound sand, right Sen Schumer?

John Edwards was going to take that little perk away from Congress, once he was elected if they didn't pass his health care plan, which would have covered everyone.

[area51]

3. k&r (n/t)

[nichomachus]

8. Actually, it is rocket science

Rocket science is only half hard. The first half, getting things to shoot up in the air is easy. I could do it when I was a kid. The hard part is getting them to come back down where you want them to -- in a controlled way.

No one is a bigger advocate of single-payer universal health care than I am, but it's much easier said than done.

The biggest problem is that we have such a well-entrenched insurance industry that profits from the current system. You can't really tell all the hundreds of thousands of people who are employed in this industry to go fuck off. And you can't tell the stockholders that you're just going to close their businesses down.

Before you can put in a new system, you need to find out how to dismantle -- in an orderly way -- the old one. Or you need to find some way to incorporate it into the new.

I don't know about the history of the systems in other countries, but I'm guessing several things -- just from what I know about the history of the medical industry in general.

The high cost of health care is a recent phenomenon. When I began working in the '60s, the insurance we had was called "major medical." It covered you when you went to the hospital. If you went to a doctor, you just paid him (her). Most people could do that. In the '70s, my doctor charged $7 a visit and that would include an EKG or an injection. If you needed to go to the ER for stitches or something, it would cost about $50. That was a lot of money in those days, but manageable for many people.

So, when England instituted its program in 1948, medical costs were low. High-tech medicine hadn't been invented. Heck, antibiotics were only a couple of years old. Medical care consisted mostly of setting broken bones, stitching up wounds, the occasional appendectomy and, for the rest, just being nice to you until you got better or died. I don't know, but I'm guessing there wasn't a well-entrenched and very profitable health insurance industry in England at the time. So that wasn't a factor for them. It was very easy to put in a new system. And, I'm guessing the same holds for other countries.

I detest the vultures in the health insurance industry, but they are there, they are powerful, they are profitable, and we can't wish them away.

I'm not saying there's no way out, but it just isn't as easy as some people say -- and, short of violent revolution, the solution won't happen without the buy-in from the insurance companies.

[Cresent City Kid]

11. It is complex

In some cases, medical costs are high because that's what they charge. I used to work for Kinko's, and one copy job I had was an itemized hospital bill for a brain injury patient. The item that struck me was 50 cents per Q-tip. I brought my son to the emergency room for a bad cut, and was charged $16 for the disposable gloves used in the treatment.

I believe that this profit margin-gone-mad attitude grew out of complacency. "Don't worry, insurance is paying for it." We went from not being able to afford medical care, to not being able to afford insurance and REALLY not being able to afford medical care.

Like our addiction to oil, this will be a complex dismantling process that needs to start yesterday.

[Lasher]

16. One reason the costs are so high is that we are paying medical expenses for the uninsured.

They get treated at the hospital, they can't pay, and the money has to come from somewhere.

And of course the insurance companies add their charges on. IIRC, about 30% of medical costs in the US are due to the involvement of insurance companies. By eliminating them we would have enough to fund healthcare for everyone, improve coverage the average person has, and train displaced insurance company employees for work in productive lines of work.

A moratorium on H-1B and L1 visas and offshoring should generate enough work for them. And in this scenario there would be training as I said, so we wouldn't have to look offshore for qualified people.

[SammyWinstonJack]

17. It doesn't appear too be so complex for members of Congress who receive

government funded health care. :shrug: So give everyone that coverage. Good enough for them but not us? Why not? And how about this? Affordable health care costs? Can't Congress at least address that?

[Fireweed247]

15. Passing HR676 is a very real possibility if we believe and work for it

The Kucinich bill HR676 for Universal Single Payer Health care has over 80 cosponsors! Our Congress is waking up and we need to do our part to push it! We need to demand this of our members of Congress, and if they will not support it, we tell them we will find Congressmen who will.
www.peacecandidates.com

[tucsonlib]

18. Now Up to 90!

Two new cosponsors in the past two days.

[tucsonlib]

19. A Discouraging Update....

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/dems-hedge-on-healthcare-2008-04-23.html


Same old crappy excuses: "Americans aren't ready for universal health care." And the most disingenuous one of all: "Not enough money."

[4waterfalls]

21. agree..

and we have no excuse for ignoring this issue
Insurance companies are an unecessary middle man .Someday people will look back on them and wonder how they got away with it for so long.

[reprehensor]

20. It can work.

Just look up North, eh?