U.S. Accepts International Criminal Court (US wants to control the ICC)

[Solly Mack]

U.S. Accepts International Criminal Court


"Mr. Bellinger said the U.S. wanted the court to "complement" the U.N. Security Council's agenda. That would ensure the court remains aligned with American interests, because the council can take no action without assent from its permanent members -- the U.S., Britain, China, France and Russia.

Mr. Bellinger said the U.S. would look to a diplomatic conference slated for 2010, which is expected to discuss definitions for the international crime of "aggression."

At the Nuremberg tribunal after World War II, the Allies prosecuted Nazi leaders for waging "wars of aggression." More recently, however, the U.S. has worried that a vague definition could be used as a pretext to prosecute American officials for military operations.

The International Criminal Court is intended as a court of last resort for genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity, when national justice systems can't or won't take action. It has cases open in several countries, including the Central African Republic, Congo and Uganda, but has yet to conduct a trial."

[leveymg]

1. The Bush Administration accepts the ICCJ's jurisdiction, when it's applied to other countries.

[Solly Mack]

3. Exactly. And they want to be able to veto any action

by bringing it in line with the security council (permanent member veto power)

[leveymg]

12. The UN Convention Against Torture (CAT) allows for universal jurisdiction

Every signatory state is obligated to enforce it and to do so if another state refuses to carry out its obligations under the CAT.

Doesn't matter that the US Senate acceeded to the treaty with reservations. All signatory states can begin enforcement against anyone, anywhere in the world, if they've committed torture. Trial can be in national courts, not just the ICC.

[Solly Mack]

16. Yes, I know. I'm rather well informed about the CAT actually

I was addressing what the US is trying to do to the ICC.

[leveymg]

18. What's your reading on the Senate Reservations to the CAT?

They don't appear to offer any real relief if a foreign state brings a case against a US citizen within its own courts.

As for ICC jurisdiction in CAT cases, the Convention also calls for a UN committee to be convened if there's a dispute between two parties over over enforcement. The Reservations merely state that the ICC doesn't have jurisdiction to resolve such a dispute if the US is a party - but, it's the UN General Secretary who has the ultimate power to convene an international tribunal, not the ICC. Do you read the Convention the same way?

Finally, I get your point. Yes, this can be interpreted as another US power grab :hi:

[Solly Mack]

21. You're referring to Article 21, paragraph 1 of the CAT, yes?

I thought the ICC was in addition to national criminal jurisdictions.

I also thought the Security Council played a part in establishing an international tribunal.

[malaise]

22. In other words the Western powers can murder

citizens anywhere and the Western powers will decide whether it's murder.

This planet is fucked.

[scarletwoman]

2. Thanks for catching this! Control it, indeed.

That's precisely what they hope to do. I don't see why ANY court should be allowed to be put so blatantly under the control of a small exclusive executive body. If a judiciary institution isn't independent, it's worthless -- exactly the desired end in this case.

Personally, I think it's high time to bring about some major changes to the U.N. Security Council.

Thanks again for posting this!
:yourock:
sw

[Solly Mack]

4. You're welcome, scarletwoman!

It's a case of won't join it, can't really beat it, so take it over.

[scarletwoman]

13. Well, it's what crime syndicates do. The modus operandi are obvious & predictable. (nt)

[PDJane]

5. Sooner or later,

The world will have to unite to bring the US to account.

[Solly Mack]

8. They won't though

quite a few of them guilty of aiding Bush in his war crimes

[Edweird]

6. "the U.S. has worried that a vague definition could be used as a pretext

to prosecute American officials for military operations."

Well, if they've done nothing wrong, then they don't have anything to worry about, right?
Isn't that how we've been told it works?

Of course they're worried.
String 'em up.

[Solly Mack]

7. And if the US gets veto power, they have even less to worry about

[Edweird]

20. I wonder what kind of stick-and-carrot leverage they will dream up for that.

I imagine they will do ANYTHING to save their sorry asses.
I only hope the international community delays giving us veto power until AFTER the appropriate war crime tribunals have run their course.

[malaise]

23. They know what they have done

Now they will define the rules.

Fascist Imperialism is the order of the day. We are all fucked.

[bluesmail]

27. Like retroactive immunity...setting a precedent

yes we're all fucked. K&R by the way.

[madokie]

9. the ICC will have a full plate starting shortly after 1-20-09

Whether we send them to the Hague or not they are going to the Hague, all of them who are still alive that is. My prediction is when the chips fall many will take the easy way out like their idol, adolph, did. :hi: Still sending them well wishes :grouphug:

[Solly Mack]

10. Thanks, madokie!

I'm getting things ready for my recovery..Surgery is May 19th and I want my house recovery ready. :)

[leveymg]

15. We should be the first to urge the new Administration to honor extradition to any state which will

enforce the Convention Against Torture and the Geneva Conventions.

[madokie]

19. I sense the world body as a whole hoping that we will take the lead and put a stop to this

traitorous cabal but will if we don't. These people can not be allowed to walk away from this as free persons. The damage that one act would do would doom the whole world as it would give legitamacy to despotic rule.

[slipslidingaway]

11. K&R thanks. n/t

[Joanne98]

14. Oh no!

[slipslidingaway]

17. 3 more R's...anybody? n/t

[Cleita]

24. I see we are still exercising our powers as world bully.

If this is allowed to happen, welcome to world corporate dictatorship.

[madrchsod]

25. the world is waiting for january.......

[Karenina]

26. You're setting yourself up

for a HUGE disappointment... K&R!