We don't need an election. We need a revolution.

[Dr.Phool]

Note to mods. I'm not advocating for the violent overthrow of the government, just making an observation.

I just took a ride today, and i noticed that gas has finally crept above $3.55 a gallon. I know, it's worse in some areas of the country. I walk through the neighborhood. A nice firmly middle class area, and a few blocks away I see a lot of vacant, foreclosed houses. A friend of mine lived in one of them. I loaned him my pick-up when he had to move.

I go to the grocery store, and prices are going through the roof on everything. Bread, milk, eggs, even beer and whiskey, are skyrocketing. I buy canned pumpkin to supplement my dogs diet. Two months ago, it cost $.89-.98 per can. Yesterday it was $1.69.

My wife is losing her job at the end of June. The outsourced agency that took over foster care under Jeb Bush in our county lost their contract, and she'll have to re-apply. We hope we'll still have health insurance. Even the $700 per month we pay now is better than no having insurance.

I read a good article by Kevin Phillips in the St. Pete Times this morning, talking about how the economy is worse than they say, and exactly how they fudge the numbers on unemployment, inflation, etc. It's a must read.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/article473596.ece

So, I come to DU to get some intelligent conversation, and a lot of news I can't find anywhere else. The last few months it seems like I've wandered into a battle between the clans of Hillary Hatfield and Barack McCoy. Or the Holy Crusades. We need U.N. Peacekeepers in this place.

Now I'll throw a bomb. All three candidates stink to high heaven.

:hide: McCain may not be insane, but most people who have over $100 million in their bank account, and a private jet, don't really have a clue what's going on with us proles. Hillary is another matter. I always admired her for her fortitude during her White House years, and was happy to see her win her Senate seat. We all knew then that she was angling for the presidency, and we liked the idea. But, then a different side started to show. The real side. She had access to all the sources we had before she cast her vote, on the IRW. But in her calculating, triangulating way, she had to prove she was tough. She has done this time and time again, pleasing donors instead of her base, which she hates, and working families.

Obama? I just don't see a there, there. His health care plan is lacking. I see no legislation to protect our jobs. I don't see any education reform. I hear a good talk, but that's all.

Congress? A nest of vipers. In it for themselves and themselves only. They could do themselves and the whole country a favor by making elections publicly financed only. It would save them the trouble of raising funds for their next election starting the day after the last one. But that would mean playing on a level field of ideas with their opponents the next time. When the game is rigged in your favor, why change it?

Our majorities? What a sick pitiful joke. Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi can't find the will to stand up to a piss poor imitation of Mussolini. A guy with an approval rating lower than the winter high temperature in Barrow, Alaska. We have "New Democrats", "Blue Dogs" and DLC Republicans voting for punitive bankruptcy bills, H1B visa programs, more Iraq war funding, and a resolution allowing an invasion of Iran. The "Progressives" can investigate steroid use in baseball, but not high crimes and misdemeanors in the Executive. The issue subpoena's and get laughed out of the office. Why no legislation to re-regulate the finance industry. Campaign contributions anyone?We go right on approving lifetime appointments for right-wing extremists for the federal bench. We had good majorities in Congress and the Senate when Scalia and Thomas were confirmed.

We have a few bright spots. Not many. A Russ Feingold here, and a Dennis Kucinich there, but that's about it.

I've been a loyal, activist Democrat my entire life. Until recently. I resigned my DEC position when our Dems voted to continue funding a war that we elected them to stop. A few months later I changed my party affiliation to "No Party Affiliation" after outrage piled itself upon outrage from my party. I did wait until after my Florida primary to change.

In short, I'm fed up and I'm not gonna take it anymore. Any candidate who gets my vote in the future is going to have to earn it. I'm through with trying to explain to people how Bill Nelson is better than Katherine Harris (He's not, he's just as delusional and mis-informed a fundie as she is). I'm no longer an apologist for traitors and corporate moles in the party.

In the mean time, the pool is 88 degrees, and the beer is about 40.

And I've got



:popcorn: :beer:

[notesdev]

1. Nobody cares what you think

unless that thought is attached to a substantial campaign donation.

That's government-by-bribery for you.

I've gotten to the point where I am sarcastically advocating that our elected officials be chosen by lot. But the sarcasm part isn't holding up too well, it's hard to make the argument that that wouldn't be an objectively superior way of choosing our leaders.

[tbyg52]

2. >>advocating that our elected officials be chosen by lot.

It's been proposed, in Pohl's _Years of the City_

http://www.amazon.com/YEARS-CITY-Pohl/dp/0671876392/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209340564&sr=1-1

Edited to add link.

[Greyhound]

5. Great idea. Wanting the power of office should be an automatic DQ from ever holding office.

A random drawing of SSNs would work as well as any other form we've seen, sure you're going to get idiots and people with all kinds of crazy beliefs, but... wait a minute...

[tbyg52]

8. There's all kinds of political ideas in science fiction

One of my favorites is Heinlein's _Double Star_. I used to think the very last sentence was kind of a shortcut ending, but then I grew up..... :hi:

“No, I do not regret it, even though I was happier then – at least I slept better. But there is solemn satisfaction in doing the best you can for eight billion people.

Perhaps their lives have no cosmic significance, but they have feelings. They can hurt.”

http://www.amazon.com/Double-Star-Robert-Heinlein/dp/0345330137/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209341103&sr=1-1

[FREEWILL56]

120. You may be on to something here.

We can make it a mandatory draft with the pay and benefits similar to what our vets are getting.
I know it wouldn't work though because then the crooks in government now will just hideout moreso in the corporations and get their way through more lobbying, err legalized bribery.

[bikebloke]

63. President Bill

There used to a comic in Washington's City Paper called "President Bill' (pre-Clinton). The president was chosen by lottery and a progressive guy named Bill, living in Takoma Park, won.

[NinetySix]

77. As well as Clarke's Imperial Earth, I believe.

n/t

[Dr.Phool]

4. That's it. Government by bribery.

It's also demeaning. Run for office as a newcomer, and you'll spend 8 hours a day calling people you don't know, begging for money.

[warren pease]

21. I'm beyond expecting any kind of campaign finance reform from the very people...

...who have the most to lose by public financing. As someone mentioned here, it would put incumbents on a relatively equal footing with challengers, at least in the primaries.

If such a system were in place today, most of the disgusting GOP sycophants who hide behind that little "d" after their names would become born again No Money for Iraq zealots and Bush/Cheney impeachment supporters overnight. And even then, there'd be a hell of a lot of them looking for work next January.

But I really doubt it's ever going to come to that. The decision granting corporations "personhood" and the other one equating money with free speech will keep the bribocracy firmly in place despite legal challenges. Big money is going to determine winners and losers and nothing but a Supreme Court reversal of those two rulings will make the bribers go away.

So I think the next best thing is that we just stop bothering with elections -- at least those for national offices like the presidency and seats in the Senate and House. Let's just let them raise money from, say January of the year prior to what would have been election day, count the hard and soft money in early November and declare the candidate who's raised the most in corporate bribes the winner.

The only obligation the candidates have to the former electorate is they have to disclose the top 20 corporations who have bribed them. I think dressing them up like NASCAR drivers, with a corporate logo for each of the top 20 prominently displayed all over their jumpsuits, would do the trick.

Just so people know who bought a particular piece of mind-bogglingly stupid legislation -- not that they can do much about it anyway, at least under any political system in which legalized bribery is the organizing principle.

No mess, no fuss, no voting machines to worry about, no voter caging, no judicial nullification, no GOP secretaries of state rigging the system, no voting machine company CEOs promising to do all they can to assure that the wingnuts win their elections... none of that nonsense. Just money.

And it's a particularly American solution, since the acquisition of money has become the national religion.

The bank as church and the mall as salvation. What a demented country.


wp

[truedelphi]

73. If we chose our leaders by lottery, at least some of the time we would

Get people who were honest and who would do the right thing for the middle income person.

[Cleita]

98. This actually is closer to real democracy than the election system we have.

It would be obligatory for every citizen once in his lifetime. It would be drawn like the lottery at random like how we select for jury duty. If some provisions were made for people to defer their service until after they retire if they like, it shouldn't cause any undue hardship for someone to serve four years kind of like our men used to serve in the military before the all volunteer army.

[Dhalgren]

3. Viva Dr. Phool!

I am with you comrade! UP THE REVOLUTION! UP THE REVOLUTION!

:woohoo:

[Usrename]

6. Viva la Revolution

I'm not sure that Obama is 100% useless. There's a chance that he will uphold the Constitution.

Can't say that about the other two.

:toast:

[electropop]

84. He's dismissive when asked whether he will enforce the laws

that the Bush regime have broken. I'm not too optimistic.

[alarimer]

7. I absolutely agree

A revolution in how we elect our governments is certainly warranted. This system of legalized bribery only results on government of, by, and for corporations. We need to throw ALL the bastards out to get people who will actually implement REAL campaign finance reform. No corporate lobbyists should ever be allowed.

I hate all three candidates. Well, hate may be too strong but I really, really dislike them. McCain is just a Republican asshole and the Democrats are complete corporate tools. I will not be voting in this Presidential election. Well I live in Texas where, as a Democrat my vote does not even count anyway. I am through as a Democrat anyway. They suck nearly as much as the Republicans- spineless weasels the lot of them. Well there are a few exceptions. I would have happily voted for Edwards but the media declared that Obama/Hillary were the front runners so here we are.

[demnan]

9. We will not get what we want through working actively in

politics. I've come to that conclusion. However, I also wonder, where is the outrage? Why aren't more people standing up and protesting against the Iraq War, the rape of the planet, the economic hardship?

There were three of us protesting the war in Manassas, VA yesterday. People drove by and nodded or honked. No one joined us offering to carry a sign for a couple of hours. People don't care that much. That is why we have a government, including two political paries, that sucks.

[Occulus]

61. PEople don't know WHY they should care

and I think it has a lot to do with people a) not knowing their rights, b) not caring about exercising those rights because they don't want to be 'uppity', and c) people being actively discouraged from exercising those rights in other situations because it will cost them something or other.

Case in point: a few years back there were discussions on DU about employers limiting bathroom breaks of employees on the workfloor (I don't recall where) to not more than three per shift. Now, why didn't those employees drop everything, stop work, and strike until the policy was rescinded?

Because their employers can fire them at the drop of a hat these days. The economy, right now, is a hiring department's wet dream: hundreds if not thousands of available applicants panting for their menial, backbreaking, underpaid jobs, people they know are desperate and so feel they can treat as poorly as they wish and they won't complain.

I see this every single day I go to work. There are dozens of people I work with who do the exact same job I do, but, because they are considered "casuals" (I'm a postal worker), they receive no health benefits, no sick leave, no vacation time, can be fired for any reason by any supervisor at any time, must check their schedules daily because they have no set day (single, not plural) off, have no right to ask to see a union steward, and get paid about half what I do. They get treated like utter crap by some of the supervisors (supervisors who do NOT treat full-timers with union backing in the same manner, thyankyouverymuch), and they have to just take it. It makes me sick, seeing them work just as hard as I do, and getting treated that way.

But, my point is, all of the entire situation has been constructed in such a way as to minimize employee/societal complaints, not through making things so good that people won't complain, but by making things so bad that they don't dare complain, for fear of losing what fractional sliver of the pie they had in the first place- which circulates directly back to people not knowing what they're already allowed to do about it in the first place.

It is a very deep, very dark hole our nation has climbed into, and it will take a long, long time to climb back out.

[Tashca]

10. Right on!!

That is hardly a bomb....at least for me. I couldn't agree more. This is turning out to be the most disenfranchising election for me yet. ....Stink to high heaven is being mild.

I worked hard for the Democrat party up until the late ninties....then denounced them and changed my party registration to Independent. I do seem to keep voting for the Democrats in the General. I have been slowly trying to come back, but am wondering why?? They don't seem to represent me...

[Dr.Phool]

12. One thing is for sure. I will never, ever, ever vote for a Republican.

But there's a lot of Dems that won't get my vote anymore.

[Tashca]

14. agreed.

I never have and never will.....

I don't even comprehend how people can think like they do....

[tnlurker]

11. I am with you here.

Something must be done. One suggestion that I liked was increasing the number of Congress members to lower the number to about 1 per 100,000 people. That way a few real third parties might spring up and coalition governments would have to form.

[notesdev]

13. Good point

The problem with a "two-party system" is that it provides no incentive for the parties to be any different from one another. A viable 3rd/4th/5th party would be more effective at providing accurate representation and therefore strengthening our democracy through increased participation.

Otherwise you end up with massive numbers of people who don't fit into either party, who don't feel they have a stake nor a say in what goes on in DC.

[MNBrewer]

15. I'm sure someone in Washington is saying...

Let them eat pumpkin pie.

I'm very concerned with the world food situation. This is the tip of the iceberg. Food and water will be the reason we go to war next time (after we invade Iran and Syria, that is).

[Festivito]

16. We need to democratize our media.

Whether by revolt or dictum matters not.

It must happen.

Corporations in general could stand to be democratized a bit as well. Even the smart connected shareholders have less and less effect.

We end with CEO/lottery winners taking all they can, and no one can say different.

[Spurt]

17. Agreed

I have always been independent as I believe parties are the problem rather than the solution.

Screwed from the right or screwed from the left - you're still screwed!

[magellan]

20. Indy here too and for the same reason

Totally agree with you and the OP. The problems this country faces aren't about party, they're about the fact that the people aren't in charge. Most of them just don't realize it.

[tomp]

33. the problem with your staement is that we have never had...

...a "left" government, and the democratic party has always been to the right of true progressives.

[Spurt]

67. You are probably correct..

...but I used the L & R terms loosely.
IMHO neither party as a whole gives a damn about the people other than at voting time, and now that doesn't really matter either with the vote counters selecting their chosen winners.

To most politicians it is just a game of power and big money, neither of which is held by the people.

Even the likes of John Conyers has gone. Just a couple of years ago he was fighting for the people, yet since he became Mr Chairman he has issued some letters and threats but hasn't kicked any ass at all. Even though he clearly knows the elections are rigged he is allowing another election to proceed without any repair of the proven problems. I find that to be so sad - I used to admire him immensely.

[crimsonblue]

18. Hi there mister troll. What's your name?

[JeffR]

19. You're way offbase here

The poster is not a troll, but a good progressive with a lot of legitimate complaints. If you have any real rebuttal, why not make it now? Otherwise, you might make yourself look pretty damn foolish.

[Dr.Phool]

23. Troll? I've been here for 5 years, and have nearly 10,000 posts?

And it took your stupid ass to finally catch me? You're a regular Sherlock Holmes.

[0rganism]

25. Not just any troll, you are the mightiest of dedicated stealth sleeper trolls!

Perhaps... could it be? you are the Troll King!

[Solly Mack]

24. Piffle

[Donnachaidh]

40. troll? And which one of you have the lower posting numbers?

lowest gets that title.

[Dogtown]

76. A foolish post

n/t

[DaLittle Kitty]

144. MORE LIKE RED FACED RED ASS POS!

T
his post is pure unadulterated FACT/TRUTH.... and YOU defend the STATUS QUO... Go :puke: on yerself!
!
!
!
!

[Horse with no Name]

22. You have crawled inside my head. K&R. n/t

[Wind Dancer]

109. Yes............ mine too!

It's a very depressing situation!

[sammythecat]

26. Excellent, excellent post. Every word is the ugly truth.

The majority in this country are being turned into peasants. Slowly at first, then faster and faster, and now it's going at an almost reckless pace. I don't believe there's any kind of broadly coordinated conspiracy of bad guys against good guys. It just so happens that what's good for one greedy guy also happens to be good for the other. Instead of one big conspiracy, it's thousands of little ones, from the local Representative and the local polluting manufacturer to the oil companies and the top level of our government. The only thread connecting all of them is an increasingly ruthless greed. No one is intentionally making the little guy suffer, it's just an unfortunate byproduct of the well-to-do becoming rich, the rich becoming wealthy, and the wealthy becoming the super-wealthy. The middle class has been disappearing at a faster and faster rate, and God help the poor.

The politicians are clearly, clearly, more interested in their benefactors and associates than they are in really championing for the common good. We do have some good people in government, but not nearly enough. I think too much of our leadership is made up of people who are, to varying degrees, too corrupt and weak-willed to accomplish much in the near future. If indeed it does happen, I'm afraid it's going to take at least a generation to get this country facing the right direction. I think it could go much faster if we had about 3 or 4 Rush Limbaugh's. The only trouble is that when they've served their purpose we'd have to kill them. I don't much like the idea of a country full of dittoheads, no matter what stripe or flavor.

[tomreedtoon]

27. Wrong. This country needs an ENEMA.

The Joker was right. Everyone needs to start taking responsibility for their lives. They have to stop identifying with celebrities and pay attention to their own needs.

[blindpig]

78. I would disagree

Instead, we need to attend to our brothers and sisters needs. This 'every man for hisself' self-improvement nonsense is one of the big roadblocks in developing a mass movement. We'll never get 'there' otherwise.

[tomreedtoon]

142. You misunderstood my "taking responsibilty."

I mean, instead of blaming other people for the problems we are in, we need to accept the fact that we, ourselves, are the only ones who can do anything about it. We can't look to Obama for help, since he's going to be assassinated before he gets close to the Oval Office. We can't look to Clinton or McCain, the continuation of Bush. Here in Florida, we can't look to the Democratic Party, because there is none in Florida - only Republicans who wear donkey pins.

We must accept the fact that politics has failed, and we need to help each other on a personal basis. The Feds won't give us health care; we need to find ways to stay healthy without doctors or medicine that we'll never be able to get anyway. We can't expect jobs to help us; we must learn ways to live on as little money as possible. And if that means squatting in abandoned buildings or Hoovervilles, that's what we'll have to do.

We have to accept the fact that the Great American Experiment is over, that the Chinese will own us soon, so we'd better hunker down and be prepared to live as the third-world nation we've become.

[Senator]

28. Impeachment Would Be A Revolution

It would send the right messages to the right people that it is a least possible for us to right our ship of state.

And it is not as unlikely as the Distractomatic-Euphemedia would have us think.

All the nuts and bolts confirmation of the torture and war crimes makes remaining the firewall for this wretched regime -- a war crime in itself -- less and less tenable morally and politically.

While the beltway-blinded may not "get it" that they have a duty to defend the Constitution and uphold our treaty obligations, they may be able to get that Hillabama is just not cutting it (we'd see it in polls by now). And they may also be not-too-comatose to realize that McCain in the WH is just a continuation of bushcheneyism (regardless of what McCain or his media lapdogs think).

Unless impeached, cheney will still "run" any GOP "resident." And even if the election reformers succeed in putting it beyond theft this time, cheneyists will simply media-hound our elected leader and implement rogue foreign policy.

Appeasement simply doesn't work.

Impeachment remains our ONLY moral, patriotic (and legal, economic, legislative, electoral, diplomatic...) option.

===

[Tyler Durden]

29. I've been saying a version of this for some time...k&R

[zonmoy]

59. As have I.

I now believe that our civilization must die. I figure that it is the only option left for us. the people are not going to fight back until it is too late to save either our republic or civilization. and that is what makes it so that death of our civilization is the only option left.

[Perry Logan]

30. America has been in a state of civil war ever since 2000. The left and right are going to fight.

[Echo In Light]

31. What about the majority "left" whose views are aligned w/the right, yet they don't realize it?

...or care to acknowledge it?

[tomp]

34. ? nt

[lonestarnot]

36. And those cowards make me the sickest.

Fucking dumbasses!

[Donnachaidh]

42. tons of those out there -- but we also have some stealth RW who play left

It's gotten so bad the only way to straighten it out is to get ALL the Dems who have been in office more than two terms the hell out of office. They've gotten too *impressed* with themselves, and become playmates with the lobbyists. They ALL have to go, as well as every single Republican party member.

We DO need to clean BOTH houses. In total agreement with Phool -- the three candidates suck bilge water.

[Echo In Light]

51. Yep. I was with Kucinich, then your man Edwards, now....???

[DaLittle Kitty]

131. K&R...The CORP. Media "MANUFACTURED"THIS END GAME AND WE ARE STUCK W/ IT!

Wait till we hit $4-5 Dollar gas... I think that everyTHING ... BREAKS AT $5-$6 DOLLAR Gas... Then ya start to see REAl ANGER IN THE STREETS! JOBS LOST, BUSINESS TANKING LEFT AND RIGHT... THE nightmare IS on the foreseeable horizon! :think:

[Road Scholar]

32. K&R nt

[grannylib]

35. You're dead on with so much of this, although I am trying to hold out

hope that Obama has more substance than the media has allowed us to see so far...

This country has moved in lock-step to the right for so many years now, that policies which once would have seemed mainstream or even conservative are now seen as damn near communist. There really are precious few progressives in office; most Democrats are either centrist or Reich-leaning and the media slams the progressives every chance they get (the "loony left" and all that shit).

So what's your suggestion for a meaningful revolt, other than not voting for any of these slimy pseudo-progressives?

[Dr.Phool]

41. I'm at a loss anymore.

I know a lot of things that need to be done. But, it just don't seem like anyone in Washington wants to do anything.

[grannylib]

47. Not just anyone in Washington...I'm more concerned about what

We the People will/won't or can/can't do to effect change. I'm less astonished by Washington's inaction than I am about the inaction on the part of too many citizens. I know there are many, many active folks trying to get the job done; I'm wondering what is most effective and how to get the most people working together to make a change. I'd love to see everyone take your attitude and just plain not vote for these people, but I have no hope of that being a mass movement; I think all too many will continue to vote for whom they perceive to be the lesser of two or more evils.

[Dr.Phool]

45. I remember when Reagan first took office.

They kept calling his appointments "conservatives". I said these people aren't conservatives, they're far-right reactionaries. When he abolished the Fairness Doctrine, the started to implement part of Lewis Powell's plan to take over the media, and academia. They're still working on the latter, but the only thing we get anymore is pro-corporate propaganda.

Most people anymore are to busy trying to keep a roof over their heads, and food on the table to search out alternative news and information. I know candidates who are no more aware of a lot of the things happening in this country, than migrant lettuce picker. The lettuce picker may know more.

[mnhtnbb]

37. You're not alone, Dr.Phool. Hubby and I were both so disgusted

after 2004 that we switched our party affiliations to 'unaffiliated' in NC. We have open primaries
in NC, so it doesn't matter whether you're registered Dem or not. We wanted to make a statement.

We didn't stop there. We started looking for another country in which to have a residence,
in case things got so bad (and the revolution didn't happen)that we wanted out. We settled
on Panama. After a disastrous experience with American developers there (we thought our house
would be finished last year)in which all construction came to a stop because of a labor dispute
and the developers decided to use the strike as an excuse to cover their gross mismanagement
of the project/buyers' funds, and their financial problems, we think we have finally turned
the corner on buying into a completed project in another part of the country: fingers crossed.

I have followed the discussions on these boards regarding the need to be remote and self-sufficient
with great interest. I don't think the 'revolution' is going to happen. I think it's more likely
that we are in for some pretty tough economic times. Everything's in place to declare martial law.
The detention centers are built.

I do not believe Obama is the messiah. He openly admitted in one of the debates (when Edwards' was still in it) that he didn't have a clue how to make things happen, i.e., run the government. Talking about change is NOT the same thing as making change happen. I don't think he can beat McCain anyway.
And isn't that depressing?

I can only say that I sure as hell hope I'm wrong. But hubby and I are hoping for the best and planning for the worst--and if the worst comes down, I just hope we have time to get on a plane
to Panama where we'll sit and watch the Pacific ocean and drink some rum; fish; and eat produce grown on the plantation that's part of the development.

[TBF]

58. I thought I was the only one feeling this way...

I'm supporting Obama, but not hopeful he can pull this off. More than anything I'm afraid he'll be assassinated. Recall what happened with Dr. King and Robert Kennedy. After hearing about the Pennsylvania exit polls I was very disheartened.

Of course I live in Texas right now, so perhaps it is not as bad elsewhere, but people here think McCain is a moderate. McCain? That man is a facist. Hillary is a moderate, Barack perhaps could be called liberal on a good day. Where are the true progressive thinkers? Have they all expatriated already?

My husband has dual citizenship with UK. Not ideal, and I'm not thrilled with the weather there, but at least we can escape the right wing lunatics by moving there. Hubby is keeping his ears open for opportunities to transfer to his company's London office.

I've tried to be optomistic; I volunteered as a precinct captain for Obama in my county, and worked at the polls on election day along with alot of calling neighbors and knocking on doors.

But I fear the democrats will not be able to get it together soon enough to defeat McCain. Too many Hillary supporters are threatening to vote McCain, which is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever heard self-described "democrats" say.

I never thought I could live outside of the US, but now I'm worried that staying would be the mistake.

[zonmoy]

60. the Clinton's are the cabals tools to make sure that the democratic party takes the dive

that the cabal has ordered them to take.

[mnhtnbb]

70. We didn't consider any EU countries due to cost and no ability to get residency.

We're retirement age and Panama has the best retirement benefits for US ex-pats. Canada and New Zealand don't want us (push up health care system costs). We already have our permanent resident visas in Panama; on our last visit we got a discount on airfare within Panama.

I can't believe the irony that we may flee to Panama during a McCain presidency when McCain was born in Panama.

[TBF]

92. That makes sense - we are younger

I am 41, my husband 36, with 2 young children. We also have family in UK. I find the information on Panama very interesting though, and will do some reading on it.

I remember meeting an ex-pat in Belize when we traveled there. He was making his living as a photographer on one of the resort islands and never regretted leaving the US.

[mnhtnbb]

113. We looked very seriously at Belize--traveled the entire country--before Panama.

Do you ever read any of Joe Bageant's stuff? He recently moved to Belize from Virginia. Hubby and I met him one time at a friend's house here (NC).

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2008/04/the-audacity-of.html

When we were younger (1994)we looked at New Zealand. At the time, whites were leaving South Africa in droves, and the job in Christchurch that hubby wanted was taken out from under him by such a person
5 days before we were due to leave on a look/see trip. We went anyway, and were so disenchanted
with Auckland that we canceled the rest of our trip and ended up vacationing in Maui on the way home.
I often wonder if we'd be in NZ now if it hadn't been for the coincidence of the end of apartheid
in South Africa.

Do take a look at Panama, though. It is booming--due to the Canal expansion--and probably will be
for the next 10 years at least.

[Dr.Phool]

96. Who would have ever thought, say 15 years ago,

That people would even consider fleeing to Central America?

[mnhtnbb]

117. As I said, the irony of going to Panama if McCain, born in Panama, becomes Pres, doesn't escape me.

[info being]

101. Agreed....here are the possibilities when it comes to Obama

1) The propaganda system wins and he loses the election
2) The CIA kills him off
3) He becomes President but changes practically nothing

I've often said to my wife that if this thing actually happens...if he wins and governs well for 4 - 8 years...I'll have to seriously start questioning all that I know to be true about the world.

But experience tells me that the past 50 years are a pretty good indicator of the next 4.

[truedelphi]

74. I envy you way out.

I think that the way things are here -- soon we will have martial law and already the media is doing some weird stuff - if you watched Reverend Wright last night, youmight have noticed that CNN's banner labelled him a member of the "Black liberation movement"

He's a member of the Civil Rights movement -- but those words are not scary enough anymore.

[TBF]

94. The media is owned by Murdoch, is it not? That should tell you all you need to know.

[mnhtnbb]

116. black liberation theology is a twist on liberation theology that was popular

among Catholics 20 some years ago--particularly in Latin/South America.

Here's an interesting article about it--not from a US journalist, of course!

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/JC18Aa01.html

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

38. K & R. My husband and I discuss this on a regular basis, trying to

figure out how we ourselves can concurrently disconnect as much as possible from the current economic/social/cultural/legal system in this country, while working from within to make a difference, a dichotomy, for sure.

I do know that any candidate for whom I vote will need to clearly lay out their plans to fix or improve a multitude of issues which are threatening to overwhelm most citizens of this country, and ADHERE to those plans or explain why they're not, once elected.

We are also developing connections and relationships within our community, the better support to have as things devolve around us.

This is the best time to get to know your neighbors, your local merchants and those who are representing your interest at the most local level of government, ie city council, education board and so forth.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for this OP! :kick:

[femrap]

39. Let me K and R your post!

Elections have become a complete circus...a planned distraction from what is truly important. There is only one party...the party of Greed. And I'm sick of it.

Now when I vote, I have to choose between the lesser of the evils. Between the hateful organized religious folks and the greedy, murdurous corporations, we have a tough time being free.

I'm with you...a revolution would be just what I need.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

43. Another K&R

[pacalo]

44. Everyone that I talk to who is disgusted with the Mussolini wannabe is also disgusted

with the choices we've been given. On the darker side, we've got a kicked dog who has been photographed hugging his abuser. Then, after 7-1/2 torturous years of letters & phone calls pleading for representation from laws that are abusing us, they give us two choices: a senator whose husband was the target of public abuse by BushCo for 8 years who is now trying to win over the dark side & a freshman senator yes-man with poor timing who has a lot to prove & will be putty in the corporate hands.

I'm disgusted, too, but I'll never, ever vote for a Republican.

[Dr.Phool]

46. Hugging the abuser.

Is that like groveling to Murdoch and Scaife?

I remember the derision of McSame around here after watching him hugging the chimp after the character assassination and smears from the 2004 election

[pacalo]

48. Murdoch & Scaife -- absolutely! Thanks for filling in the blanks.

The boy king's handlers just didn't want anyone strong & widely respected from either party to win the presidency; it would make him look even worse.

We have McSame who is an obvious back-door deal; Hillary, who could be another back-door deal, thanks to Poppy's friendship with Bill; & Obama, who won't know what hit him when the one-on-one campaigning begins if he is the nominee. One silver lining if Obama wins the nomination & has the rug yanked from under him: I believe there will be an honest-to-goodness revolution in the streets if McSame takes the election away from him.

[TBF]

107. It actually may start in Denver if Hillary steals the nomination from Obama -

i really doubt people are going to put up with that. Dean should have the guts to let the primaries play out and then stand up in June and say we've counted and Obama wins. If it goes to convention there will be problems.

[NJCher]

86. one of the few who voted against the war is a yes man?

Cher

[Pyrzqxgl]

88. I'm not to excited about either choice the Democrats offer.

Is there any chance that neither will get a majority at the convention & JOHN EDWARDS (who hasn't endorsed anyone)
might be a compromise choice? I'd support that in a second.

[undeterred]

49. You're depressed.

Obama is a good candidate, but the lens you're looking through isn't going to show anything good.

[Dr.Phool]

52. I'm looking.

I'm honestly looking. Maybe his redeeming quality is that he hasn't been poisoned by D.C. yet.

I normally work campaigns, even though I supported Howard Dean in '04, I gladly went to work for John Kerry.

[truedelphi]

80. I'm supporting Obama, but unless he starts speaking out about the bailout of the

Banks by the Treasury and the Federal Reserve giving the failing banks our taxpayer monies, then it is clear that he does not understand the handover of the wealth of this country to the top banking elite.

This bailout/handover needs to stop!

[undeterred]

123. Agreed.

[Kablooie]

50. Maybe we should riot at the convention, maybe?

[Dr.Phool]

53. Tried that in Miami in 1972. (twice)

All I got was a headache and a snout full of tear gas.

[mcollier]

55. John McCain - Gas

Displays his lack of economic policy... If I have a 20 gallon tank, saving .18 cents per gallon $2.60 per fillup and I fillup the tank 2 times a week = $5.20 x 4 weeks = $20.80 savings per month...

Huummmm..... It cost me $25 dollars in gas per day just to drive to work round trip....
Like many of the Nation's policies, Im not so much concerned about the tax; What Im concerned about are the financial economic, energy, foreign and domestic policies
and wastes of our tax dollars that have lead to rediculous inflation, corporate welfare and misguided governmental focus all costing the American taxpayer significanly.


The value of the dollar is shrinking, the cost of basic living essentials (food, shelter, energy, healthcare and education ) are going through the damn roof...
and John McCain's answer is to put us in more debt? Why not repeal the Bush tax cuts to the rich? Why not stop the billions in federal tax breaks and grants Oil and
Gas companies which are making record breaking profits? Why not standup to the corporate lobbyist and special interest groups and cut their ability to set the
agenda...

This is how we begin to deal with the problem ==>> http://www.barackobama.com/issues">Barack Obama's "The Blueprint For Change"

[Pyrzqxgl]

89. Hell, I got hit in the head by a cop in Chicago.

I'm too old for that kind of shit.

[MessiahRp]

54. Thomas Jefferson would most certainly agree with you.

“God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion… The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -Nov. 1787

[Dr.Phool]

57. I think of that quote quite often.

I think of everything I learned in high school civics class, and how none of it applies anymore. It's as though the three branches of government are merely window dressing for an illegal junta.

Congress abdicates it's responsibility to the executive. The courts are packed with right-wing ideologues, with more being confirmed every day by our great majority. The Justice Department approving illegal actions based on political expediency and ideology rather than the established law.

Thomas Jefferson is spinning in his grave.

[zonmoy]

62. all the founding fathers are doing that.

I figure that they are wishing they never started this country about now seeing how it is turning out.

[pokercat999]

85. Actually I'm not so sure about that. Remember the conditions

in 1776, slavery, women could not vote etc.

[zonmoy]

87. remember they were fighting against a king and foreign Parliament

that was telling them what to do without giving any of them a say in the matter. I suspect they did the best they could.

[arendt]

56. Recommended now; comment later. n/t

[waiting for hope]

64. Have you been reading

the posts in the Edwards supporters group?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=257&topic_id=6375&mesg_id=6443

Every 80 years or so and we are due for one...


K&R!

[iamahaingttta]

65. You say you want a revolution?

It's pretty simple, really:

STOP USING YOUR FUCKING CREDIT CARDS!!!!!!

Stop paying interest on anything, ever. That is how wealth is created in this fiat money system, and that wealth goes straight to the top. Stop borrowing their money to buy things that you don't really need anyway, and then paying it back to them with interest.

Seriously, the biggest and only effective revolution we could have in this country would be for people to live within their means.

Want a revolution? Stop buying Dunkin Donuts! Stop watching The Simpsons! Stop driving to the store every time you need a pack of smokes!

I know that sounds silly - but Dunkin Donuts is owned by the Carlyle Group - the company that brought you George W Bush, 9/11 and the Iraq war. Enjoy your coffee! Every time you buy a Coolatta, you are giving them profits. Every time you watch the Simpsons, you are giving your eyeballs to Fox's advertisers, some of the profits then going to Rupert Murdoch's favorite Republican candidates. Every drop of gasoline burned is another penny going towards the obscene profits for the largest corporations on the planet.

If each of us would be more careful about what we buy, who we buy it from and how much we spend, we could change the world in the matter of just a few months. If we were to bankrupt the fascists, they would lose their power over us. All they want is our money, and if we stop giving it to them, they will fade away. True, we would probably have to crash the economy and do a startover, and it would be uncomfortable. It's not going to be easy.

So... quit bitchin' and start the revolution already! All right? It's not here on some anonymous internet discussion forum. It's in your homes. It's in your wallets. It's in your neighborhoods!

Get to work, dammit!

[truedelphi]

75. On a personal economic note, not using the credit cards matters. But in the larger scheme

OF things, with the Federal Reserve, Treasury and top government officials handing over hundreds of billions of dollars to prop up failing banks, well, that policy they are pursuing is
1)illegal (It is socialistic bailout of one group of people by another)
2) and very very deflationary.
And that policy is going to turn this country into another Romania - there won't even be food or goods on the shelf. (We are seeing that already with the collapse of various airlines. Next will be retail stores like Macy's and Sears.)

It wouldn't matter quite so much how deflationary the policy was if we didn't have to buy our energy (ie oil) from abroad.

Europe's price on oil has only doubled while ours has tripled because they have a relatively stable "euro" while our dollar is not really worth the paper it is printed on.

[N4457S]

112. Yes, It's True...

...and I see people here in the Bay Area living this lifestyle on a daily basis.

We don't have anywhere near the number of big box supermarket chains here that I've seen elsewhere. Lucky Supermarkets is based in Modesto. Raley's and even Lunardi's are all local. I despise Safeway and refuse to shop there most of the time, but even they are local.

For restaurants, the best values are always Mom-and-Pop or small, local chains. There's a place called Katy's Korner in San Ramon that has absolutely the best breakfast potatoes I've ever eaten (not that I'm even supposed to have potatoes) and they have two stores: Walnut Creek and San Ramon. Katy and her husband run the business and they're good at it. Too damn good.

We're not going to bankrupt the fascists. But we can at least not give them our money.

[LoZoccolo]

66. An election is a revolution. We have a revolution every two years.

If you don't like who the people choose to vote for, it's up to you to change that, because forcing them to accept your choice against their will is a sure way to cause all sorts of other problems.

[Wednesdays]

82. So, how did those revolutions turn out for ya

in 2000, 2002, 2004...and yes, even in 2006? :shrug:

[LoZoccolo]

83. So, how did those revolutions turn out for ya

In the Soviet Union, China, Viet Nam, Cuba, East Germany...and yes, even in Yugoslavia? :shrug:

[ForeignSpectator]

105. All it took for these was just an election, alright...

:shrug:

[Ravachol]

121. And France, USA, Mexico, etc.?

Not all revolutions turn out to be stalinian regimes, you know. Considering our current state of affairs, it takes more than an election to change things. The regime is against change. Change that would benefit the People, that is.

You need a revolution. The idea that elections are revolutions, in a liberal democracy, is ridiculous and preposterous.

Jefferson was right. The tree of liberty needs to be refreshed.

[panhead1961]

68. Bankruptcy

W e are losing everything we have due to corporate health care swindling and HR violations. We are middle income and still had to pay uncle sam even with deductions. There is no candidate who will clean this country of everything dirty it has accumulated over the past 28 years and even with all this going on and senator Bird calling for us to go to the streets and scream, most people still think "it doesn't affect me". Well that about to change.

VIVA the revolution

[BlueEyedSon]

69. You have a pool??????

Fucking elitist!

[Dr.Phool]

99. Yeah, but it's solar heated!

Besides it came with the house. Hurricane Jeanne ripped the solar panels off the roof a few years ago, and I could finally afford to replace them last month.

[lpbk2713]

71. It has happened before ....

... who's to say it won't happen again?


"When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

[Wednesdays]

72. The only revolutions here will be the ones approved by Fox News

Anything else will either be quashed like an ant, or treated as though it didn't exist.

[Dogtown]

79. K&R

Complete agreement.

[chaska]

81. Amen, Doc. It's over. There's nothing of our system worth saving. Abandon it. Start over.

All that once was good about the US is now perverted.

It will end; not in my lifetime, but it will end. And it should.

[info being]

102. I think it will happen in your lifetime

[nichomachus]

90. BRAVO!

I'm with you.

I'm leaning toward Obama (although the jury is still out), not because of any "plan" he has, but because it will throw a kink into things in Washington for a while. Maybe buy us some time. Also, he seems to be the one who is energizing young people and previously unengaged or disengaged people. These are the hope of the country.

I cringe when I hear people gloat about how Hillary attracts older women, blue-collar workers, and lunch-bucket Dems (whatever the fucks they are). For heaven's sake -- these are the very people who sat around and did nothing while the fascists took over the country. They sometimes even applauded them. These are the people with the yellow ribbons on the back of their cars. If we elect their choice -- we're in for more of the same.

We really need new people who aren't going to sit still and take this shit.

I wrote to a friend this morning -- even before reading this piece:

I don't look to Hillary or Obama to save us. They may be able to rearrange the deck chairs or change the tune the band plays on the ever-listing deck (or not), but we're taking on water and it ain't a stoppin'.

BTW -- I don't pay too much attention to candidates' "plans," like their health care plans. Those are just pipe dreams and wish lists to get you to vote for them. There is no way any of them are going to wave a wand and make that happen. If you think they can, then you just don't understand how the system works.

Nothing can be done in Washington without the buy-in of what are referred to as "stakeholders." If the president wants to do something about health care, then the discussions will include high-priced lobbyists from the insurance industry (several of them), high-priced lobbyists from the hospital industry (several of them), high-priced lobbyists from Big Pharma (several of them), high-priced lobbyists from the AMA, and anti-tax lobbyists for corporations -- all of them with unlimited expense accounts -- and one consumer advocate working for peanuts and without enough money to buy his own lunch.

The most powerful and dangerous organization in DC is the US Chamber of Commerce. This is not like the chamber of commerce in your home town that holds beauty pageants and runs sidewalk sales. The US Chamber is a powerful, well-funded organization that is opposed to taxes, workers' rights, workers' protections, women, minorities, safety, the environment, you name it. The US Chamber can kill legislation or agency programs with a single phone call, it it in any way threatens short-term corporate profits -- I've seen it happen.

The average American has more to fear from the US Chamber of Commerce than he does from Al Qaeda.

[mnhtnbb]

119. AMEN! That is why this country is becoming fascist; the government is run to benefit corporations

not the people. I don't care how many fancy lawyers will defend the legal issue of corporations
having individual rights--they aren't the same as individuals.

[PlanetBev]

91. Dr. Phool is depressingly correct

I feel politically marooned. I don't even recognize the Democratic party anymore, let alone the country.

[Baby Snooks]

93. The Mama Viper....

"Congress? A nest of vipers. In it for themselves and themselves only. They could do themselves and the whole country a favor by making elections publicly financed only. It would save them the trouble of raising funds for their next election starting the day after the last one. But that would mean playing on a level field of ideas with their opponents the next time. When the game is rigged in your favor, why change it?"

And Madame Speaker is the mama viper - she proved where her loyalties are when she attempted to have an amendement added to the minimum wage legislation to exclude Starkist.

"By the corporation, for the corporation." She does not believe in "By the people, for the people." And neither does the majority of Congress she controls.

But too many in this country are blinded by the partisanship and so they vote straight party tickets. They simply do not realize that there is little difference between the two parties at this point.

Divide and conquer. And we have been conquered. And the Democrats and Republicans following their respective Pied Pipers are going to end up drowning in the same river.

We need a new Congress more than we need a new president. A Congress that can say "no" and override a veto. And that will take sufficient numbers of both Democrats and Republicans saying "no" and "retiring" as many incumbents who have supported this overthrow of our Constitution by Congress as possible.

[delt664]

95. I have been thinking Revolution has been needed for a long long time

Hopefully not a violent one, but change must be made.

I paid $3.80 for gas today. My cost of living is skyrocketing at the same time the value of the dollar is sinking faster than the titanic. I am 27, and am making less in real dollars than i was when I was 20.

We have a situation where some very wealthy people are literally raping this country out of its prosperity, without regard for life, liberty, stability or any consideration of the repercussions whatsoever. They have around half this country so confused, brainwashed, or generally duped into supporting this atrocity that they are happy for it!

I have no valid suggestion on what or how this country needs to be fixed, only the certainty that it is broken. The first step is to loosen the republican grip on DC. After that, I hope smarter people than I can step forward and repair the damage wrought upon this country by Bushco.

[freefall]

97. Well said!! I've also reregistered as an independent for the

reasons you state. And I'm another of those who think the situation is beyond repair.

:kick:

[mike_c]

100. proudly recommended....

Agree completely.

[info being]

103. The only revolution we can have is individual

There is no longer a way for us to fight the system directly. The system is designed to crush all those who directly oppose it. The only option is to "opt out".

Opt out from commercial media
Opt out from debt
Opt out from consumerism
Opt out from conformist thinking and conformist behaviors
Opt out from sucking up the earth's resources for no good reason at all
Opt out from your sense of self importance and your belief that you can single-handedly change the world

Opt in to being the unique genetic mutation you truly are
Opt in to authentic human relationships
Opt in to great music, art, films
Opt in to a great sex life
Opt in to travel
Opt in to new ideas
Opt in to life
Opt in to being you

If enough of us do that, the revolution will have happened before the establishment even notices.

[blindpig]

104. horseshit

It this kind of philosophy which is holding revolution back. Ain't nothing wrong with all that, in it's place it is commendable, but it is no replacement for political action. It's gonna take direct action, it's gonna take getting involved.

[info being]

108. So far what we've been doing is horseshit

We're riding two different horses I guess.

[blindpig]

114. We're not doing anything

Why would you advocate more inaction? It is past time for action. And I'm not talking about waiting around for some politician on a white horse to lead us to the promised land. That is horseshit too.

[info being]

118. The most important thing we can do is THINK and LIVE correctly

We already live in a world with far too much shouting and far too much action. What we haven't been able to do, on a massive scale, is think correctly and live correctly.

If we do that, the rest will take care of itself. Without that, our actions will be misguided and the results ineffective.

[blindpig]

125. So, you abdicate your responsibility?

What we haven't been able to do is get the boot off of our collective necks. Naval gazing ain't gonna do shit for that, though it might make it more comfortable.

The inaction you propose means more and more suffering and injustice throughout the world and the continued despoliation of our planet. but I guess that's ok if you think and live correctly, whatever the fuck that means.

[txaslftist]

106. K&R

Buddy, I know EXACTLY how you feel.

[LanternWaste]

110. I'd prefer an election...

I'd prefer an election, and I think we'll have one-- the results of which will most likely be a brand new Democratic President.

And regardless of which candidate gets the eventual nominations, I'll be pretty well satisfied...

[DaLittle Kitty]

129. Ya Really Think we'll Get An Honest, Fair and Trustworthy One in 2008?

:think:

[Individualist]

111. K&R

[Jim__]

115. I sympathize with your plight. But I don't want a revolution.

We can still win through grass-roots organizing. And that's a lot less painful and less difficult than a revolution.

[Jed Dilligan]

122. Act locally. nt

[Missy Vixen]

124. I sent Dr.Phool a PM

earlier. I think this is the most important post I've read on DU in a year.

Our system's broken. As usual, we get more of the same. We have a government so afraid of the -20% approval rating of the current occupant of the White House that they will not even countenance doing what's best for their constituency, but they sure know where we are when they need campaign ca$h.

It's unbelievable.
Julie

[RoccoR5955]

126. As Gill Scott Heron said:

"The revolution will not be televised."

You will not be able to stay home, brother.
You will not be able to plug in, turn on and cop out.
You will not be able to lose yourself on skag and skip,
Skip out for beer during commercials,
Because the revolution will not be televised.

The revolution will not be televised.
The revolution will not be brought to you by Xerox
In 4 parts without commercial interruptions.
The revolution will not show you pictures of Nixon
blowing a bugle and leading a charge by John
Mitchell, General Abrams and Spiro Agnew to eat
hog maws confiscated from a Harlem sanctuary.
The revolution will not be televised.

The revolution will not be brought to you by the
Schaefer Award Theatre and will not star Natalie
Woods and Steve McQueen or Bullwinkle and Julia.
The revolution will not give your mouth sex appeal.
The revolution will not get rid of the nubs.
The revolution will not make you look five pounds
thinner, because the revolution will not be televised, Brother.

There will be no pictures of you and Willie May
pushing that shopping cart down the block on the dead run,
or trying to slide that color television into a stolen ambulance.
NBC will not be able predict the winner at 8:32
or report from 29 districts.
The revolution will not be televised.

There will be no pictures of pigs shooting down
brothers in the instant replay.
There will be no pictures of pigs shooting down
brothers in the instant replay.
There will be no pictures of Whitney Young being
run out of Harlem on a rail with a brand new process.
There will be no slow motion or still life of Roy
Wilkens strolling through Watts in a Red, Black and
Green liberation jumpsuit that he had been saving
For just the proper occasion.

Green Acres, The Beverly Hillbillies, and Hooterville
Junction will no longer be so damned relevant, and
women will not care if Dick finally gets down with
Jane on Search for Tomorrow because Black people
will be in the street looking for a brighter day.
The revolution will not be televised.

There will be no highlights on the eleven o'clock
news and no pictures of hairy armed women
liberationists and Jackie Onassis blowing her nose.
The theme song will not be written by Jim Webb,
Francis Scott Key, nor sung by Glen Campbell, Tom
Jones, Johnny Cash, Englebert Humperdink, or the Rare Earth.
The revolution will not be televised.

The revolution will not be right back after a message
bbout a white tornado, white lightning, or white people.
You will not have to worry about a dove in your
bedroom, a tiger in your tank, or the giant in your toilet bowl.
The revolution will not go better with Coke.
The revolution will not fight the germs that may cause bad breath.
The revolution will put you in the driver's seat.

The revolution will not be televised, will not be televised,
will not be televised, will not be televised.
The revolution will be no re-run brothers;
The revolution will be live.

[cascadiance]

132. And some more great words from Gil Scott Heron!...

Back when Eisenhower was the President,
Golf courses was where most of his time was spent.
So I never really listened to what the President said,
Because in general I believed that the General was politically dead.
But he always seemed to know when the muscles were about to be flexed,
Because I remember him saying something, mumbling something about a Military Industrial Complex.
Americans no longer fight to keep their shores safe,
Just to keep the jobs going in the arms making workplace.
Then they pretend to be gripped by some sort of political reflex,
But all they're doing is paying dues to the Military Industrial Complex.
The Military and the Monetary,
The Military and the Monetary,
The Military and the Monetary.
The Military and the Monetary,
get together whenever they think its necessary,
They turn our brothers and sisters into mercenaries, they are turning the planet into a cemetery.
The Military and the Monetary, use the media as intermediaries,
they are determined to keep the citizens secondary, they make so many decisions that are arbitrary.
We're marching behind a commander in chief,
who is standing under a spotlight shaking like a leaf.
but the ship of state had landed on an economic reef,
so we knew he was going to bring us messages of grief.
The Military and the Monetary,
were shielded by January and went storming into February,
Brought us pot bellied generals as luminaries,
two weeks ago I hadn't heard of the son of a bitch,
now all of a sudden he's legendary.
They took the honour from the honourary,
they took the dignity from the dignitaries,
they took the secrets from the secretary,
but they left the bitch an obituary.
The Military and the Monetary,
from thousands of miles away in a Saudi Arabian sanctuary,
had us all scrambling for our dictionaries,
cause we couldn't understand the fuckin vocabulary.
Yeah, there was some smart bombs,
but there was some dumb ones as well,
scared the hell out of CNN in that Baghdad hotel.
The Military and the Monetary,
they get together whenever they think its necessary,
War in the desert sometimes sure is scary,
but they beamed out the war to all their subsidiaries.
Tried to make So Damn Insane a worthy adversary,
keeping the citizens secondary,
scaring old folks into coronaries.
The Military and the Monetary,
from thousands of miles in a Saudi Arabian sanctuary,
kept us all wondering if all of this was really truely, necessary.
We've got to work for Peace,
Peace ain't coming this way.
If we only work for Peace,
If everyone believed in Peace the way they say they do,
we'd have Peace.
The only thing wrong with Peace,
is that you can't make no money from it.
The Military and the Monetary,
they get together whenever they think its necessary,
they've turned our brothers and sisters into mercenaries,
they are turning the planet, into a cemetery.
Got to work for Peace,
Peace ain't coming this way.
We should not allow ourselves to be mislead,
by talk of entering a time of Peace,
Peace is not the absence of war,
it is the absence of the rules of war and the threats of war and the preparation for war.
Peace is not the absence of war,
it is the time when we will all bring ourselves closer to each other,
closer to building a structure that is unique within ourselves
because we have finally come to Peace within ourselves.
The Military and the Monetary,
The Military and the Monetary,
The Military and the Monetary.
Get together whenever they think its necessary,
they've turned our brothers and sisters into mercenaries,
they are turning parts of the planet, into a cemetery.
The Military and the Monetary,
The Military and the Monetary,
We hounded the Ayatollah religiously,
Bombed Libya and killed Quadafi's son hideously.
We turned our back on our allies the Panamanians,
and saw Ollie North selling guns to the Iranians.
Watched Gorbachev slaughtering Lithuanians,
We better warn the Amish,
they may bomb the Pennsylvanians.
The Military and the Monetary,
get together whenever they think its necessary,
they have turned our brothers and sisters into mercenaries,
they are turning the planet, into a cemetery.
I don't want to sound like no late night commercial,
but its a matter of fact that there are thousands of children all over the world
in Asia and Africa and in South America who need our help.
When they start talking about 55 cents a day and 70 cents a day,
I know a lot of folks feel as though that,
thats not really any kind of contribution to make,
but we had to give up a dollar and a half just to get in the subway nowadays.
So this is a song about tommorrow and about how tommorrow can be better. if we all,
"Each one reach one, Each one try to teach one".
Nobody can do everything,
but everybody can do something,
everyone must play a part,
everyone got to go to work, Work for Peace.
Spirit Say Work, Work for Peace
If you believe the things you say, go to work.
If you believe in Peace, time to go to work.
Cant be wavin your head no more, go to work.

[Life Long Dem]

127. Everything you touch is handled by a truck and gas cost money. n/t

[jonnyra]

128. A revolution is long past due

But just what would a revolution look like? A mass boycott of business? A mass strike? A million people descending on Washington and setting up camp? A mass boycott of the fascist TV networks. Massive daily marches shutting down cities until this ends? notice its all MASSIVE.

This is all about numbers and as long the media is controlled by the fascist regime the truth will never be clear to the majority of AMericans since the majority get their news (and talking points!) from the fascist networks. That is the absolute number one problem right now...the truth stays hidden through lies, distortions, distractions and silence by the media therefore we can never get enough numbers to bring an end to this nightmare.

If WE THE PEOPLE do not try to save our nation then I guess we cant get too pissed at the congress critters for not giving a shit.

[Truth2Tell]

130. K and F'n R!

Could Obama be a progressive mole in the system? Could he accumulate some real power and then flip left as Roosevelt did? Hugely unlikely but not impossible. I'll vote for him on the off chance, but my hope-o-meter will be set at about 5%.

Real structural, revolutionary political change is long overdue in America. For now I will still work for it. But if it's a McSame victory, followed by an Iran war (or an Obama victory followed by a Pakistan war, or whatever), then it's Belize time for me and the fam. I will only wait so long (and work so hard) for a train that's not coming.

[Dr.Phool]

138. I'll vote for him also, on that outside chance.

But, I think the attack on Iran will come way before that.

[cascadiance]

133. I think one way to do this is talk Nader into being a one issue candidate! IRV!

Nader recently has been a problem more than an aid, because no matter how he tries to slice it, if he's not working within the two party system, he makes bad situations worse.

This time around though, I think he could HELP the situation if he continues to run and then pulls out and perhaps even volunteers to work for the EPA or something like that if he gets the Democrats to put ONE issue in their platform and serious indications that they will do something about it.

Instant Runoff Voting. If he gets that put in place for the following elections, folks like him can run in the future and not be a problem that puts someone like Bush in office. And in fact people like him running in the future with instant runoff voting will put a healthy check on the two party system to force them to deal more appropriately with the way that people want them to on issues, or run a greater risk of losing their seats to a third party.

I also agree that public campaign financing is needed too, but here's a case where perhaps someone like Nader from the outside can force the Dem's hand into getting a true balancing force in place!

[slipslidingaway]

134. Agree, we have elections with candidates that the MSCM

deems acceptable. If one believes that to be true, then they should ask is being loyal to one's party in the best interest of our country? I know a few Republicans who are rethinking their "party loyalty" votes of 2000 and 2004.

:shrug:


And from a quick search on the issue of Presidential Debates I came across an old DU post...

"We must take the Presidential Debates away from the DNC & RNC Chairs"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x918376

"...Presidential debates were run by the civic-minded and non-partisan League of Women Voters until 1988, when the national Republican and Democratic parties seized control of the debates by establishing the bi-partisan, corporate-sponsored Commission on Presidential Debates (CPD). Posing as an institution committed to voter education, the CPD has continually and deceptively run the debates in the interest of the national Republican and Democratic parties, not the American people. The CPD, co-chaired by the former heads of the Republican and Democratic parties, has insulated the major party candidates from challenging questions, difficult issues, and popular third party and independent candidates. As a result, under the CPD's control, the debates have been reduced to "glorified bi-partisan news conferences," where the major party candidates merely recite prepackaged soundbites and avoid discussing many important issues..."

[Carolina]

135. K&R!

Great post and I totally agree. I've been a Dem since Kennedy was president and I am so disgusted with the whole rotten system.

The pols on both sides of the aisle hobnob with the MSM and the corporate rulers.

We, the people, are screwed until the next tea party!

[mcollier]

137. The party has already started "My Friend"...

Tell me this, if you've been paying attention. Take a look:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24Y1qcma0Q4">What will you do with your vote?

[Carolina]

143. why the snarkiness

"if you have been paying attention.... my friend"!

Screw You

[HuskiesHowls]

136. It turns out that my Father was a wise man....

He always said that when they let lawyers start making the laws, this country started going to hell. And he said that back in the 1950's!!!

He was right...more right than he ever knew!!!!

[robertpaulsen]

139. The winner of the Presidential race could end up with the world's biggest booby prize.

Belief System by Jim Kunstler
snip

This has been a pretty remarkable month, actually, with all the problems of "The Long Emergency" accelerating impressively. Oil is now testing the $120 mark, the airline industry is imploding (largely over fuel costs), the housing scene has reached a degree of collapse unseen since the 1930s, food shortages have strayed out of the Third World and begun to affect Japan and the USA, bats are dying of a mysterious disease in the Northeast, and the Arctic sea ice is shrinking away to nothing.

We're in a strange collective psychic bubble. We'd like to forget about all these troubling rumors of hardship and bad weather and just get on with the daily task of making a living and paying for stuff and enjoying our customary entertainments. The comforting ceremonies of everyday life seem to continue. The freeways are still full of cars. Nancy Grace comes on TV dependably at 8 p.m. and is there deploring the latest pervert arrest. The baseball season has ramped up and the teams are criss-crossing the nation in their chartered airplanes. The stock market is actually going up -- what's wrong with that?

But there's an equally eerie vibe out there that things are seriously out-of-whack. We're on the edge of something. We're at the entrance of a dark passage where some of the ceremonies of daily life meet resistance. You go to the WalMart and five of your six credit cards are refused. Uh oh. It begins to dawn on you that you're spending a quarter of your take-home pay filling up the gas-tank every week. There's no dial tone when you pick up the telephone. How could all the supermarkets in town be out of rice? The local hospital just declared bankruptcy. The neighbors down the street auctioned off all their furniture in the driveway last week. Why does the cat pick up so many ticks these days?

Events are not through with us this year. They'll keep moving where they will whether we believe in them or not. I'm hardly even convinced that it matters who wins the presidential race this year. It could end up being the world's biggest booby prize.

http://jameshowardkunstler.typepad.com/clusterfuck_nation/2008/04/belief-system.html

[cascadiance]

140. Yep, Start a Revolution...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER9b0yWGcfs

[Xithras]

141. Problem is, revolutions tend to be won by the strongest, not the wisest.

Once a revolution starts, the guns will come out and it will degrade into a war of might. If you think the freepers are going to quietly sit back and let us strip their types of power, you haven't been paying attention. There will be no peaceful revolutions like we saw in Europe 18 years ago, where the masses united, lit candles, and convinced their leadership to quietly skulk off into the darkness. The reichwingers in the U.S. make up almost half the population, and are convinced to their core that they are RIGHT. Any revolution in this country would quickly degrade into a violent slugfest of bombs, bullets, and general carnage.

Personally, I don't think the U.S. could survive a revolution. History tells us that it will happen sooner or later...all nations eventually die, and they do so by revolution or invasion. My gut feeling has always been that the U.S. will break into multiple nations when that happens.

So, if you don't mind, I'll hang onto those elections for as long as possible.