A question for those of you who thorougly understand economics .......

[Stinky The Clown]

Today we are where we are. We can point fingers and we can recriminate. And we probably should.

But economically, what should we *do*?

Would ending the war (and thereby eliminating that cost) help us in the short term, mid term, or long term?

Would rescinding every tax cut of the Bush years help us in the short term, mid term, or long term?

What will really help and what should we do?

[mac2]

1. Go back to Pre-Reagan tax codes so we can pay for government.

The "economic royals" are controlling the agenda and our future.

Get out of Iraq and Afghanistan now. The Russians, Brits, French all lost there. Russia even went bankrupt like we are now.

Get out of the WTO which is destroying our very existence. We can trade without it as we always did. We are no longer self suffienct as a country. This makes us dependent on our economic enemies.

[speedoo]

3. I would add.....

institute public works programs to begin to rebuild our infrastucture and to put the chronically unemployed to work.

[mac2]

5. Good idea also.

[lonestarnot]

2. Well $12 bil a month and a brazzillions in tax from that top 1% isn't going to hurt us much.

:evilgrin:

[mac2]

4. Sorry. Are you saying this is a good idea or bad one?

[lonestarnot]

6. Ending the war and taking back the tax cut from the rich? You're fucking kidding me right?

[mac2]

12. That was the mandate of the American people in 2004.

[lonestarnot]

15. Yes it was, but the slim majority couldn't cut the mustard.

[mac2]

20. See post #16.

[speedoo]

13. The poster might have been thrown off by the smilie. nt

[fasttense]

7. Increase government employee wages GS5 to GS11, or equivalent,

by about 40%, raise minimum wages to $10/hour and this will have an immediate improvement on consumer spending. Ending the Iraq occupations pay outs would probably have a mid term improvement and ending the Paris Hilton income tax cuts will have a long term improvement. Immediately placing tariffs on all products with equal tariffs in foreign countries would also improve the economy and encourage US manufacturing. Immediately providing health care for all American citizens will make our labor competitive with other foreign countries and removing the tax incentive for outsourcing jobs would also encourage job growth and demand.

The middle class must be put back together again for any economic improvements. Trickle down does not, and never has, worked. If it did, then serfdom and feudalism would have been the most dynamic and robust economies in history. Get rid of this fake free trade mentality and regrow the middle class and the economy will improve.

I do not thoroughly understand economics but I understand common sense.

[mac2]

14. National Health Care would make us competitve with

other developed countries. As I write car corporations are moving to Canada because of it. As our dollars falls they may regret it though.

[speedoo]

17. I strongly disagree with your first idea.

Increasing Govt. employee wages by 40% would add immensely to our deficit with no increase in output, except for whatever benefit is gained by the increased spending by those employees.

Bad idea.

[flvegan]

8. What should we do?

Well, we don't have power over much of it, but:

End the war. Tomorrow. We're throwing a lot of money into a hole, nevermind the lives we're ruining;

Bring all the overseas outsourcing back to the US;

Force all US corporations and the uber rich to pay their fair share;

Elect truly progressive leaders (yeah, this one made me laugh out loud);

Slow down our population growth;

Promote manufacturing development on our soil;

One last one, and I can't believe I'm saying this, take corporate "success" out of the hands of stockholders.

These are just the first few ridiculous ideas off the top of my head.

[mac2]

16. I agree.

Progressives can't even get party support. I believe we would have won the Congressional majority in 2004 and 2006 if the party had given them money and support like the Pro-war Democratic candidates.

Even Republican voters would agree with most your solutions. Our mandate is ignored in election after election.

[Gman]

9. IMHO...

I like to use the analogy of money being like blood. Money flowing through the economy is like blood flowing through your body. If blood doesn't flow to a certain part of your body, that part gets sick (gangrene) and soon will have to be removed. If blood "pools" somewhere in your body, you get bloated there, swelling, etc. Money, like blood, is generally of a finite amount.

Right now, there is a huge pooling of money in the energy and defense industries. The pooling is to the point that the rest of the economy does not get enough money to keep it healthy. You can see that in the way prices are going up radically because those areas are starved for money to keep them alive. ONe way the economy tried to get the money it needed was through cheap credit. Another way was through credit cards and home equity loans. Now, those are collapsing because the economy could not be sustained artificially that way. The tax rebates are intended to redirect some money to other areas of the economy. Or, said another way, the tax rebates are intended to redirect more "blood" to other areas of the economy that are starved for money.

The tax cuts have served their likely purpose of extra money available for defense and energy. IN the short term, I think the sudden cutting off of the defense industry through pulling out of Iraq and raising taxes back to pre-Bush rates would shock the economy probably the rest of the way into a depression much like the way the economy crashed during Jimmy Carter. No one ever writes about it, but I feel that after being in a wartime economy since 1942, the end of the VietNam war and a wartime economy caused a collapse of many systems within the economy that relied on that money flowing into them while Carter was president. (I think that would have happened to Ford or Carter regardless of who was president. It was going to happen once we wound down from VietNam.) Although I would like to see us out of Iraq now, and I've voiced that many times, I think a gradual withdrawal would be best.

Long term, more money becomes available for those other areas that need the money flowing into them and the economy recovers. Bringing back jobs that have been shipped overseas through tax incentives would bolster our economy even more with more money flowing through the economy domestically rather than being sent overseas. That brings up the issue of the trade deficit which is a hemorrhage for the economy, but that is another topic, albeit a related topic.

[YOY]

10. Refocus the MIC budget on the infrastructure and education

Make the infrastructure in this country the envy of the developing/developed world. It was this way once.

Correlate with auto industry to create vehicles that work in tandem with this infrastructure and move away from combustion/petroleum based fuels.

Redesign the K-12 American educational system to promote education and career development as opposed to standardized tests. Separate Hess for separate vocations/talents. Truly prepare them for the outside world. That means putting HS sports to the grave and promoting academic competition. Sorry, but if you want to promote a well educated society, putting the jock on the pedestal is the wrong thing to do.

Also, push education in the direction that allows for more American students to competitively study at higher educational facilities. Higher education can continue to be exported. It makes money. However, American students should be give a

All at the expense of a few new warships and yet another air superiority fighter that we don't need as we are already "superior" to everyone else's fighters for decades.

Create a system of standards for industrial goods monitored on a Federal level. Safety and quality are to be prime desirable features. Disposable cheaply produced goods need to be kept out of the market.

All of these changes involve the creation of markets. Exportable goods are important. Anything that cannot be exported are what I refer to as a "parasite industry". Health Insurance companies are not exportable for example. "Parasite industries" need to be de-privatized.

Just one MBAs thoughts.

[ColbertWatcher]

11. Good questions...

...I don't have the answers, but this deserves a kick and a recommendation.

[ThomWV]

18. The nation is bankrupt and without credit. We need to start from scratch

And that includes the tax system and scrapping about half of our Federal laws.

[mac2]

19. You mean scrap Bush laws?

They worked well in the past. Years of administrations and Presidents agreed to them.

[Terry in Austin]

21. We must heed the words of the Market Mystics

...and redouble our prayers to The Invisible Hand.

The Market knows all, and The Market provides all. We are but consumers in Its service.

Amenity.