Can we stop it with this "Would you like your mom/sister/daughter/friend to be a prostitute?" crap?

[lightningandsnow]

It's. Not. A. Valid. Argument.

Aside from the obvious fact that nobody wants to imagine their relatives having any kind of sex, do you really expect people do be that judgemental? Yes, people want their friends and relatives to be safe and happy. And sex workers can do that. And are people really that interested in placing value judgements on the sexual activities of their friends and family? As progressives, I should hope not.

I just had a friend "come out" to me as a sex worker. (She is considerably older than me, if that's what you were thinking). And you know what? I want her to stay safe and be fulfilled, and I believe she is. It's her business, and it doesn't make me think any less of her. I respect and support her just the same.

(This is not directed at anyone specifically on here. Just the sentiment in general. I felt like ranting a bit.)

(edited to fix something which wasn't worded in the best way)

[Mojorabbit]

1. I think there are valid

arguments to be made for both sides of the issue.

[lightningandsnow]

4. You are right.

However, the "mom" argument isn't one of them, in my opinion.

[BlooInBloo]

2. Soooo.... would you?

:hide:

[TheCowsCameHome]

3. *puff* *puff* - Sooooo, how was it for you?

Just kidding..............

[poverlay]

5. I agree. Besides legality, the only difference I can see between that and a

"normal" job is the social stigmas and the occasional orgasm. I don't know if sex workers ever have O's in the course of their work, but I hope so.

[Bunny]

6. Well, I can say with absolute certainty that I do not want my mother, sister, or daughters to be

prostitutes. I have no problems placing what you call 'value judgements' on their sex lives, and I won't make any apologies for that, because I don't see prostitution as a "sex life".

And, I'm as progressive as anyone on this board,so that's. not. a. valid. argument.

[Taverner]

8. BS

You're telling others what they can and cannot do with their bodies.

That. Is. Not. Progressive.

That's fascist.

[Bunny]

12. Well, BS right back atcha. I'm not telling anybody what they can and cannot do.

Please re-read the OP, and the question asked. That's. Called. Reading. Comprehension.

ETA - sorry, you can't re-read the OP - she changed the wording.

[LanternWaste]

47. Don't families always tell each other what to do...

Don't families always tell each other what to do with their bodies (among numerous other tings too)?

Shit-- I suppose dead old mom was a fascist for making me veggies with my meal.

Either that or people simply overreact to every fucking thing these days..

[Midlodemocrat]

52. Can you HONESTLY say you would be okay with TavernerTot

being a hooker? Or for that matter, TavernerToddler? Honestly? Because I don't think you would. You seem to be a good and caring dad and I would think that your child becoming a hooker would be something you would abhor.

[angstlessk]

9. who the hell said 'sex life'..he/she said 'sex worker'...sorry

if it were controled and the workers protected I would not see any problem with any family member being a 'sex worker' any more than a miner (much more dangerous....IF sex workers were protected)

[Bunny]

11. Re-read the OP.

Too late. She changed the wording. But it originally included the phrase "sex life".

[Bunny]

13. Dupe

[Taverner]

15. Some people just hate sex

I don't get it...you don't get it...but somehow they feel vindicated in setting laws to control others

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

24. Well I sure hope my mother, sisters, or daughters aren't jerks.

:shrug:

[Threedifferentones]

44. lol you offer no evidence that prostitution is bad

Just feelings. Eeeeeewww prostitution! I'd never let me sister be a WHORE is what I hear from you. I'm still progressive though, even if I am reactionary! Erm, well, no, you're not :(.

[Bunny]

46. Well, evidence wasn't being asked for. If you read the OP you'd know that.

Secondly, there's only two people I can "let" do anything, and those are my minor daughters. But once again, that wasn't the question being asked, now was it?

My, my. The dismal reading comprehension of so many self-proclaimed progressives around here is downright scary.

[Midlodemocrat]

49. I can say with absolute certainty that I do not want my daughters OR my son

to be a prostitute. And, I am as progressive as anyone on this board as well.

[Bunny]

55. Now tsk tsk, Midlo. You're just another judgmental, fascist jerk.

Welcome to the club! :patriot:

Honestly, the opinions around here just get weirder each day, don't they?

[Midlodemocrat]

56. They sure do.

I can't imagine NOT being upset if my child picked that line of work. First of all, it's not safe. Secondly, it's degrading. I don't care how you slice the whole 'free' choice thing, giving oral sex to a 50yo man who hasn't bathed in days and can't get laid without paying for it is degrading.

[Taverner]

7. Right on!

:applause:

[seabeyond]

10. it is the hard work at validating the job as not having a stigma or neg consequence

people on this board blatantly saying it is no different than working at mcdonalds, that it is a fine job, that it isnt a neg to people working in the environment, that it is a "pretty woman" scenerio....

when the males or workers are trying to paint a pretty pictures on the job is when the comments apply.

call it what it is.... i dont have a problem. make it something it isnt, i will challenge.

[angstlessk]

14. I certainly do not see the 'pretty woman' scenario...I see that it is a legitimate

need that is cursed by our Purtian ethic..rather than made legal, policed and have workers tested. It is no more or less bad than being a financial advisor who is if for the buck and lets grannys funds disapear into his pockets, or a media whore who touts how woncerful war is cause it sells news!!! Sorry, it is America AND the Middle East that finds sex so HORRID (see bennie boys and pedophiles)

[seabeyond]

17. no more or less bad than being a financial advisor

ya.... this.

a person does not have to be puritan, and it is not about "sex" that a person may see the pains and hurt and problems this life causes people

but... the people that would like to make it all pretty and nice and neat using taliban, puritan, no worse than mcdonalds. it is a stupid argument and those arguing refuse to allow any other reason a person may argue the niceness of prostitution.

legalize it. i dont care. but it isnt pretty and harmless. it isnt any of my business what another choses. again, i dont care. but to say it is no different than being a financial advisor is exactly the bullshit i am talking about

[Withywindle]

16. I hate that argument too.

What I find offensive about it is the paternalism. As if you have any control over what your mother or sister or adult daughter does for a living. As if you SHOULD. As if it's any of your business. I especially hate it coming from men - because the idea that the sexual behavior of the women in your family is anything men are entitled to a say about (because it's their "honor" at stake or some shit) is pure patriarchy.

This isn't even necessarily a pro-prostitution position, to be disgusted by this. I wouldn't want my mother to work for, say, a predatory lending corporation either. But I don't get a veto over her choices, nor should I.

[fed_up_mother]

31. My husband and I (female)

would want better for our daughters. Most definitely. I've never met any parent (male or female) who said "I want my daughter (or son) to grow up to be a prostitute." Ugh

Sometimes, it's not patriarchy. It's just plain ol' parenthood.

[lukasahero]

18. Talk to me when there's gender equity in prostitution

Until then, it's just more partriarchal bs on both sides of the argument. It's so easy to be outraged over women's sexuality - buying, selling, forbidding, permitting. It's all still bs because it still values women for what we do (or do not) offer men.

[dysfunctional press]

21. the ladies will have to start getting more heavily involved on the "demand" side of the equation....

for that to happen.

as it is, they're letting the men control the business- but when women get more serious about forking over hard cash for sexual services- the supply will be there.

[NashVegas]

19. One Of My Ancestors Was Busted Six Times

For "keeping a bawdy house" in the 1860s-1870s. A great, great grandmother.

On one hand, it's kind of cool to be the descendant of such a scofflaw. On the other, the place was in the Adirondacks and the clientel probably resembled Larry, Darryl & Darrell more than Rhett Butler.

[riderinthestorm]

20. Average life span is 34 years for a prostitute

I value my mother/sisters/daughters/nieces/friends too much to want this kind of life for them. It is a life typically filled with pain, drugs, and violence. I've seen it up close and personal in my work with battered women.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-prostitution_chic_thinkapr27,0,5566505.story

"Every reliable study of women working in prostitution finds that more than 90 percent have been victims of childhood sexual assault," said DePaul University College of Law researcher Jody Raphael. "Most entered the sex trade in their teens, after fleeing abuse and having no other way to support themselves. Many are alcohol and drug dependent.

"People talk about this as sex between two consenting adults, but it is hard to talk about this as a 'choice' when we are talking about women who entered into prostitution when they were so young," Raphael said.

The painful conditions that drive girls and women into the sex trade often pale in comparison with the dangers they face once they become part of what people far too blithely refer to as the "world's oldest profession."

[angstlessk]

22. 34 is NOT THE LIFESPAN..it is the AVERAGE AGE OF DEATH

DISTORT AND CONTORT..what is the 'average age' of drug dealers death??? I THINK DRUGS SHOULD BE LEGALIZED...takes the death and destruction out of the managerie all together...legalize and P0LICE prostitution and the deaths will fall preciptiously...as in the drug trade..make it illegal and only criminals will consort.(SEE AMENDMENT #2..YOU FACISTS) IF GUNS WERE ILLEGAL ONLY CRIMINALS WOULD OWN GUNS...SAME GOES HERE AND WITH DRUGS!!!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

25. All the more reason to legalize.

:shrug:

[girl gone mad]

27. Hasn't helped in the Netherlands or Germany. n/t

[Pithlet]

28. Oh, come on. You just hate sex.

And secretly want to control the women you care about, Judgey McPruderson. Admit it. :sarcasm:

[Bunny]

32. Don't forget, apparently she's a "jerk", too.

:eyes:

Count me in the club of "fascists" who want to control other people's lives.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

40. OK

:shrug:

[riderinthestorm]

41. Thanks Bunny and Pithlet.

Prostitution's destructive side for virtually all women is real and disastrous. Thanks for pointing out how things have played out with the legalization of prostitution elsewhere. I didn't get a chance to get back on until tonight.


:hi:

[Midlodemocrat]

50. The stuff I read here boggles my mind sometimes.

Nice to see you, Pithlet. :hi:

[AngryAmish]

23. Better for my mom/sister/daughter/friend to be a prostitute than to be a White Sox fan

[Gemini Cat]

54. What?

Hey! White Sox fans needs love too.

[GodlessBiker]

26. I wouldn't want them to be ditch diggers either, but there's nothing wrong with digging ditches.

[girl gone mad]

29. Of course it's a valid argument.

Why should we as a society accept the legalization and legitimization of an unhealthy industry? You don't want your family members participating in exploitation, but it's alright for other people's daughters to be exploited? Isn't that how we end up with sweat shops in Malaysia?

It's fair for society to say that we want to keep prostitution illegal because we want to discourage our young women from participating in dangerous and demeaning work.

You appear to have no rebuttal for this valid argument so you want to declare that it's off the table for reasons unrelated to the central arguments against legalized prostitution.

[King Coal]

34. I'm with you GGM.

[Midlodemocrat]

51. Excellent point,

:thumbsup:

[Hippo_Tron]

64. That's what the right wing says about abortion

Sweat shops are banned in the United States because we are able to actually enforce that ban. Banning abortion leads to back alley abortions. Banning prostitution leads to prostitutes working under the table and being treated horribly because they don't have the protection of laws.

No I wouldn't want my daughter to be a prostitute but if she did choose to do so I would want her to have legal protection.

[The Straight Story]

30. I wish my mom was a prostitute

If would mean, at least, she was alive still :)

[King Coal]

33. Aspiegrrl, you need to take a subjective view to understand this situation.

In other words, look at it like this: Would you want your daughter, or sister, or mother to be a whore? To be one who engages in all kinds of intimate sex acts with complete strangers several times a day? Real in-your-face-sex with horny old horndogs.

It's a valid method of enabling a person who is pondering the situation to take it it from a personal viewpoint. I don't think we should stop placing it into that perspective. And if you want your friend to feel safe and fulfilled, suggest something else for her to occupy her time and means of support. Otherwise, she will turn into a skank.

[Dora]

35. That's unfair. There are a range of work experiences available, across job categories.

Look at foodservice, for example. One can be a fry cook at any McCorporate Franchise, or one can be a chef at a Michelin three-star restaurant. They're both foodservice, and as a parent I can say that I would hope my son doesn't limit himself to being a McFryPerson. However, if he was to grow up and become the latter, I would be proud of his acheivement.

It's our own internal labeling that causes us to say one aspect of a certain type of work is repulsive, whereas another aspect is appealing. Some people think it's great that we have strippers and exotic dancers, but find the idea of legalized prostitution appalling. I think it's hypocrisy to espouse that some kinds of "sex work" are okay, but others are not.


Perhaps Aspiegirl's friend is having a "safe and fulfilled" work experience - who are we to judge?

[King Coal]

37. Is there a difference between a stripper or exotic dancer, and a whore?

With strippers, the customer just looks, with whores he gets much more involved. The point is this Dora, if you want to ponder the question of whether or not a person who has intercourse for a living is an example of fine living, asking yourself if you would want that for your mom, sister, or daughter is a valid means of determination.

[Dora]

42. And even that is subjective -

The point is this - you (or I) cannot determine for other people what is a valid mechanism for them to accept those they love. The point is not what I want for others to do, but what they want to do for themselves. I live in my body and my mind, they live in theirs. I have no control over those I love (unemancipated dependent notwithstanding). Ultimately, if I disapprove of somebody's choices, that disapproval hurts only me.

Fine living is a result of how we are, not what we do.

[King Coal]

57. Have you ever been in whorehouse? If so, would you want your daughter to work there? If you haven't

been in a whorehouse, you have no frame of reference. What we do is an attribute of how we are. If you don't mind having a daughter, sister, mother or sister working as a whore, fine, but don't tell us that we shouldn't want the women in our immediate family to do so, and/or that we shouldn't strive to prevent it. Whores live a nasty life in a nasty business. Face it.

[Dora]

61. You and I will not agree.

Where you see "whore," I see "woman."

[King Coal]

63. Well, you are not being fair to women. Men prostitute themselves as well.

All whores are men or women, but not all men and women are whores. I think what you mean to say is that whores are human. And on that, I think we agree. I've been around the block a few times. I have known whores and know whores who were and are friends, and I've known whores that I've despised. But I wouldn't wish that life on anyone, especially a member of my family. Your argument is failing fast, as you can see.

[Dora]

65. You think I'm not being fair to women. That's a stretch.

[EOTE]

36. Would you want your daughter to become a garbage man?

If not, we should criminalize that profession too!

[King Coal]

38. Poor analogy, EOTE.

[rove karl rove]

39. No but

I wouldn't lie to other people that she's a garbage collector, i would if my kid was a prostitute.

[limit18]

43. Nothing against Oklahoma...

but I'd rather have a sister in a brothel than a brother in Oklahoma.
GO HORNS!!:bounce:

[madmusic]

45. America's War on Sex

President George W. Bush says,

"In our free society, people have the right to choose how they live their lives."

So why are our government and the Religious Right:

* censoring Comedy Central, the internet, HBO, and your public library?
* giving taxpayers' money directly to religious institutions?
* legislating "good moral values"?
* eliminating strip clubs, swing clubs, and adult bookstores across the country?
* limiting your access to contraception?
* brainwashing your kids that God hates premarital sex, and that it ruins lives?

http://www.waronsex.com/summary.html

[LanternWaste]

48. I have a co-worker who's been trying to talk her daughter out of

I have a co-worker who's been trying to talk her daughter out of joining the Marines.

She still loves and cares for her daughter, she simply thinks she's giving her daughter the best possible advice.

Like you and your friend, Mom wants her daughter to stay safe and be fulfilled. I certainly don't think that makes Mom judgmental, not do I think it makes Mom think any less of Daughter.

[lumberjack_jeff]

53. It also presumes that it is my job to choose their life.

I have lots of aspirations of my sons, but no one says "Would you like your sons to get shot at for a living?".

It's silly because it presumes that my free will transcends his. For some reason, changing the gender makes it socially acceptable.

[Marrah_G]

58. I can absolutely say I would not want my daughter to be a hooker

Why would I want her to have a career with an extremely high probability of being raped, beaten or killed?

Prostitution is not pretty woman, it is not glamorous, it is not fun. It is something desperate women do either to survive or to feed a drug habit.

Even expensive call girls put themselves in danger every time they go out.

You can fantasize that it is something else, but the reality of Prostitution is ugly.

[Ellen Forradalom]

59. Would you like your husband/dad/son to be a john?

Don't tell me some of you didn't :puke:

[seabeyond]

60. excellent point, looking at it from a totally different angle. yup n/t

[ismnotwasm]

62. I'd rephrase it a bit

Would you support, validate and rejoice in your your mom/sister/daughter/friend's decision to be a prostitute? Not would you "like" --it goes way beyond that.

YOU don't seem to be moral hypocrite, as I've noticed before, Aspiegirl.

Me, I despise the sex industry for a number of reasons up to and including personal experience. If, after listening my life experience and advice, any one of my three daughters or my son decided that was what they wanted to do, I wouldn't like it, I tell them they're six kinds of fool and why, but that would be the end of it. I wouldn't condemn them. Love always transcends my most dearly held opinions.

I still have friends who are sex workers, mostly strippers and part time prostitutes.