45 Scientists Dump Global Warming Deniers in 24 Hours

[Blue_Tires]

Something phenomenal has happened in the last 24 hours. Our friends over at DeSmogBlog took it upon themselves to see what the scientists who are on the famed list of “500 scientists who don’t believe in global warming” actually think and as it turns out, many of them didn’t know they were on it.



Now, in the past, there’s already been plenty of fun to have with lists of global warming deniers–Sen. James Inhofe took a list of 400 to the Senate floor, not realizing that when he was fact-checked it would come out that he had enlisted 44 TV weathermen. However, this takes the cake. Why? Because the already-incredible result that DeSmogBlog has produced is only 24 hours old. This is only going to get worse for The Heartland Institute, who assembled the list, and now has to deal with quotes like these:

I am horrified to find my name on such a list. I have spent the last 20 years arguing the opposite.”

Dr. David Sugden. Professor of Geography, University of Edinburgh

I have NO doubts ..the recent changes in global climate ARE man-induced. I insist that you immediately remove my name from this list since I did not give you permission to put it there.”

Dr. Gregory Cutter, Professor, Department of Ocean, Earth and Atmospheric Sciences, Old Dominion University

I don’t believe any of my work can be used to support any of the statements listed in the article.”

Dr. Robert Whittaker, Professor of Biogeography, University of Oxford

http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/business/45-scientists-dump-global-warming-deniers-in-24-hours/1117

[sagetea]

1. I can't in all honesty

believe anybody would put their names on a list like that, when there is so much proof that it is here and we are almost at the point of no return.

[guyanakoolaid]

2. A poster called Straight Story just posted a list like that on DU

I don't have the patience to argue with fools any longer. The end for me comes when they begin to talk about science as if it were something to be "believed" without proof like religion.

[Warpy]

3. There are some forums that should never be entered

by those of us who don't equate facts established by the scientific method with nutty beliefs of all sorts of conspiracists, from "the cure for cancer is being suppressed" to perpetual motion fans to nutcases who attribute far more intelligence and cunning to a bad government than they possess and don't mind suspending the laws of physics to prove their wacky theories.

Arguing with such fools is like mud wrestling with a pig: you get all dirty and the pig likes it.

[El Pinko]

18. The people arguing for global warming are just as guilty of "belief"

The scientists who tell us that X degrees of warming is likely to happen in the next X number of years, or that sea levels will rise X cm over X number of years would be the first ones to tell you that the climate models, despite being produced by banks of supercomputers, are not infallible, and that they cannot say with CERTAINTLY whether warming will continue apace, plateau or level off, or even reverse somewhat. They cannot tell with certainty whether or not the Greenland or Antarctic Ice Shelves will collapse and how much sea level increase it would lead to. And they will tell you that the warming trend started long before humans started pumping out CO2. Every climate prediction out there is a best guess. I don't doubt the predictions, but I don't simply assume that they will come true, either.

But there are so many posters here who are as invested in the belief that the world will be 5 degrees hotter, the arctic ice cap will be gone, and sea levels will increase by at least 3 meters within our lifetimes, as the fundies are invested in the idea that Adam and Eve frolicked with the dinosaurs.

There is no "proof" that the climate will be x amount hotter or cooler in 30 years or that sea levels will be x amount higher in 30 years - there are only trends and climate models and best guesses. You cannot "prove" that which has not happened yet.

[tkmorris]

19. No you can't prove it

But only an idiot or someone with an agenda would ignore evidence at hand. We're not dealing with a coin-flip situation here, the evidence is compelling that climate change is occurring and that mankind is contributing to it. How rapid the changes will be, and to what extent, are of course matters of some speculation but that doesn't mean we should act like science is bunk.

[El Pinko]

21. I agree, and I watch what's going on with the ice sheets with some concern.

But at the same time, I have a realistic attitude about what can realistically be achieved in terms of CO2 emissions reductions in the near future. People in most countries are not going to be willing to go back to the stone ages, and the wheels of progress in alternatives are in motion, but still moving slowly. I think it's pretty much a fait accompli that there will be no significant reductions in CO2 reductions in the next decade or 2. The best we could hope for is maybe a leveling off as the alternative energy sources come on line.

I don't think the science is bunk - I just don't go into paroxysms every time it hits 80 in central park in April.

Look, if it were up to me, SUV's would have been HEAVILY taxes ever since they came into vogue in the late 90s. There would also be huge tax incentives for buying cars that get over 35 mpg, aven more for cars that get over 45 mpg.

Electric bills should also have a surcharge for using beyond a certain number of kilowatts per month to discourage the profligate electricity use in some homes.

In Florida, homes are left empty all summer by the snowbirds - with the AC ON.

But the panic-mode, end-of-the-world attitude of so many here gives me a migraine. Even if the worst-case warrming scenarios happen, humanity will migrate, adapt and survive. Unfortunately, many of the world's poorest won't make it. But that's no different than what happened throughout the 20th century. Even without continued warming, chances are that as population continues to grow, food and resources will be stretched to the point that even more millions will die. It sucks, but that's what happens in a world where zero population growth has not been a priority.

Personally, I'm a lot more worried by the population explosion and attendant environmental degradation than I am by Global Warming. Higher sea levels, we can deal with. 9 billion people on the earth, with the present growth-oriented economic model in place? A recipe for billions of deaths.

[Jennicut]

25. We will have huge amounts of refugees in a few Northern cities, it WILL be bad

This is not a doomsday prophecy. Human population is actually directly contributing to Climate Change. Its taxing the system. We are oversuming everything, especially fossil fuels which the burning of directly leads to increased Co2 and Climate Change. The poor will not be the only ones to suffer. We could directly kill off most of the human race. The strain of people from Bangladesh, India and other lowlying areas of the world will hurt the "middle class" people of the world, not to mention droughts will effect the United States in the West as well. The increase of diseases found only in tropical parts of the world will end up in areas that never had to deal with them before. The poor will die off and the "middle class" will cease to exist. We simply grew too big as a human race and we are not sure if Earth can handle all of us. (I am not sure what the answer is there as China's population controls led to the direct death of female babies.) Also, the earth's climate has jumped wildly and quickly in the past, it can happen again. Read Climate Crash by John D. Cox. He explains how the Earth's climate has shifted extremely quickly between hot and cold and with increased Co2 we are basically playing around with a grenade. Why put pressure on a system that could go off at any moment and than that tipping point makes it too late to do anything? I doubt enough can be done to stop Climate Change from happening but if we do start to adapt with new uses of energy perhaps we can prevent it from happening ever again. But by then we will have effectively changed the Earth we currently live on to a very different place. All it would take is a change of 2 to 3 degrees to make it a very different world. Six degrees and we are done for.

[El Pinko]

27. Again, it all goes back to population. I don't care how "green" everybody tries to be...

6 billion is pretty much pushing the limits of what the earth can provide in terms of food and resources. I think that population-induced large-scale death will be upon us much sooner than any of the more dire warming scenarios.

Looking at it another way, the Earth's overpopulation is already the direct cause of much starvation and strife. It is the cause (in addition to western profligacy) for the oil supply tightness that is causing high fuel prices, and thus raising the costs to grow and transport food - which causes even more starvation and death. And as the population continues to grow at an exponential rate, so does our consumption of finite resources. There already is not enough to go around.

Personally, I think we could do more to save the earth's environment by aggressively promoting contraception worldwide, with a 2-child policy not as law, but at least as something to be encouraged.

For example, I think the government should limit child exemptions on taxes to 2 kids tops. It may not make a difference to all parents, but it might be enough to persuade some to stop at 2.

[stubtoe]

30. Climate change IS one of the results of population explosion.

It's just that it's not popular to speak it out loud :hide:

[earth mom]

4. The earth is doomed folks. NONE of the candidates running will do a damn thing about Global warming

Hell, Obama said something to the effect that as prez he wants corporations to monitor themselves in regards to their environmental impact.

:wtf:

Like they are gonna do that! NOT! :grr:

[defendandprotect]

5. It's our earth/planet . . .we have to get something done about it . . . keep pushin' . . .!!!

[krkaufman]

8. Interesting. When did he say this? Any chance you have a reference link? n/t

[earth mom]

9. Here it is-I can't believe that I'm sourcing Faux News:

OBAMA: Well, I think there are a whole host of areas where Republicans in some cases may have a better idea.

WALLACE: Such as?

OBAMA: Well, on issues of regulation. I think that back in the '60s and '70s a lot of the way we regulated industry was top-down command and control, we're going to tell businesses exactly how to do things.

And you know, I think that the Republican Party and people who thought about the markets came up with the notion that, "You know what? If you simply set some guidelines, some rules and incentives, for businesses — let them figure out how they're going to, for example, reduce pollution," and a cap and trade system, for example is a smarter way of doing it, controlling pollution, than dictating every single rule that a company has to abide by, which creates a lot of bureaucracy and red tape and oftentimes is less efficient.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352785,00.html


p.s. I wonder what Al Gore would say to this?!

:puke:

[krkaufman]

13. Ok, good. Thanks for the link and quote.

Fortunately, Obama didn't exactly say what was intimated in the earlier post...

he wants corporations to monitor themselves

Obama's quote doesn't say that they'll be monitoring themselves, only that the regulations should necessarily dictate *exactly how* the regulation targets would be met. There *would* be regulation and monitoring under Obama's strategy, unlike under the Republican "foxes guarding the henhouse" approach, but he's saying that the government shouldn't be restricting how the targets would be met.

You had me worried there for a minute.

I *still* think Obama sometimes gives Republicans too much credit, because what he is saying isn't really a Republican idea. The Republican idea is for there to be NO REGULATION.

[earth mom]

15. Excuse me, but NOW is the time to take MAJOR action and kick corporate a$$!

It's NOT the time to allow corporations to do whatever the fuck they think is best! They've done that for far too long and look where it's got us!

Have you even seen "An Inconvenient Truth"?!

FYI: Obama is soft peddling the problem with this kind of bullshit! Not only that but he supports liquified coal which is a HUGE polluter!

Meanwhile you think his attitude is nothing to "worry" about?! :wtf:

Wow, that kind of denial just blows me away.

No wonder Gore and Edwards won't endorse Obama. He's full of shit. He's not going to do a damn thing to fight global warming except kiss up to the corporate mofo bastards who have just about destroyed this planet!

What in the hell is in that Kool Aid all you people are drinking?! :puke:

[krkaufman]

17. Take a chill pill. You help your cause(s) not one iota w/ the insults.

I merely expressed relief that Obama was NOT echoing the policies of the Republican Party, in terms of corporate self-monitoring. Obama is not a Republican, nor is he the image of Gore that everyone seems to have. I love Al, but let's not forget that the Clinton administration did relatively little in terms of moving us to sustainability.

And I think we have a LOT to do, but I'm also not so ideologically blinded not to realize that a candidate cannot propose radical changes during the campaign if they want to get elected in November.

Had Obama been promising during the campaign that we should be continuing corporate self-monitoring, it would have been close to a deal-breaker, for me. But that's not what he was saying.

[earth mom]

20. Obama is a closet rethuglican. You can bank on that.

Yeah, I'm pissed, because people here on DU and in this country have deluded themselves into thinking that Obama is going to save the U.S. and the planet.

Obama will NOT.

Obama is a candidate that was chosen by the corporate media which is owned by the GOP.

Obama's loyalties lie with the corporations who paid for his campaign and he will say ANYTHING to get elected.

Obama proved that when he threw his mentor Wright under the bus.


Obama does what's best for Obama. Period.


p.s. Have you seen "An Inconvenient Truth" or not?

[krkaufman]

31. Are you now, or have you ever been....?

Sorry, but I ignored your 'Inconvenient Truth' question, because I don't see the relevance and have no desire to go down the path you're tredding.

As for Obama being a closeted Republican... as opposed to whom? Sorry, but he's the least Republican of our three remaining choices. And, thanks, but I have my own reasons for supporting Obama at this point, and they don't resemble your hypothesis stated as authoritative declaration.

[FatDave]

14. You may want to reread the snippet you posted.

He's talking about regulating them.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[khaos]

10. the earth will be fine..

only humans and a few other species will die off; probably a good thing.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3228156&mesg_id=3228156

[Dorian Gray]

23. That's just SWELL!

Humanity dying out will save the Earth! Wahoo!

[khaos]

34. it's happened b4..

4 times i think

[SammyWinstonJack]

24. Did Obama get that from bu$h? Because that is what bu$h did while gov of Texas

which turned Houston into a polluted shit hole worse than L.A.

WTG Obama! :silly:

Lets draft Gore/Edwards'08! :woohoo:

[Richard Steele]

6. K&R

[Uncle Joe]

7. I believe this is a good development, shed some light on Inhofe's corruption or if you want to be

generous, incompetence, maybe it's both. I imagine the corporate media will be all over this scandal!

Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Blue_Tires

[Blue_Tires]

32. thanks!

[lovuian]

11. I have been under attack at You Tube but I love the

remove comment button for awhile I argued but then they just repeated the same thing over and over again...

Global Warming is a fact... many may disagree if it CO2 or weather patterns or if its from outer space but the fact is
the Artic and Antartica are melting at alarming rates

and CO2 doesn't help the process

So glad these scientists are waking up

[bluesmail]

12. too little too late. Only the filthy rich

will have a chance to reproduce the greediness in their genes. A broke K&R, and a starving K&R

[ThomWV]

22. No they won't. The "Filthy Rich" will die just like the rest of us.

[fascisthunter]

28. They Can Bank On That Prediction

But greed, power delude them, so I'm sure they realize they are just human, like the rest of us and not demigods looking down from Mount Olympus.

[Orsino]

29. But they will last longer...

...inside their domes stocked with canned food, guarded by mercenary armies.

[fascisthunter]

26. I'll Say it again. Liars and Spinsters Should Be Ignored, not Debated

It's a tactic that mainly dishonest people use to destroy debates. When there are no facts to back one up, they just repeat lies over and over without addressing the facts being offered. People need to realize that this "deabting" tactic is what Anne Coulter has herself written about. It's a sophmoric juvenile tactic that baits one into lowering their own argument to nothing more than a show of wit without substance.

I'm not telling anybody to underestimate these types, I am telling folks they need to make their case and then summarily dismiss liars as what they are.

Lying about Global Warming is a serious issue for me. Our planet and the livlihood of every living thing is caught in it's crossfire. This is an issue that need to be brought up and not allowed to be used in an Anne Coulter right wing BS styled debate.

People who feel it's ok to lie about it have a few screws loose.

[lonestarnot]

33. K & R!