History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme.....

[texanshatingbush]

...I think Mark Twain said that. The US should take note.

It seems to me that we in the US should be greatly appreciative of the foresight of Thomas Jefferson and others, who snared the opportunity--when it presented itself--to enlarge our nation's borders westward to the ocean's edge.

I'm guessing that we were thus spared the centuries of warfare which Europe has endured, largely because, for so long, we had a vast area with vast resources beckoning a growing population westward, keeping internecine squabbles to a minimum. That expansion room--and a vast ocean separating us from Europe--also allowed us the time needed to incubate our Age of Enlightenment democratic experiment, tinker with it unimpeded by others, and make it viable.

We're pretty much full-up now, as is much of the rest of the inhabitable world. Organisms, people, corporations, countries are all governed by Darwin's survival of the fittest. I can't help but think that the soon-to-come future of our Earth will be characterized by struggles for--not just petroleum--but food, water, arable land, resources to be turned into capital to enable survival (note China's recent interest in developing agriculture in other countries to feed its own population).

Am I being too pessimistic? Someone please talk me out of this funk! Are there any checks and balances in the world which will act to prevent self-annihilation?

[Tyler Durden]

1. Stupidity is always a capital crime without appeal.

I've always felt that, assuming interstellar flight is possible, two scenarios are likely:

ONE
Somebody has to be first; we're it. There may be other life forms in various stages of development, but we've made it the farthest so far. That's why we haven't had any real visitors (C'mon. You don't REALLY think Aliens drop by for "anal probes," do you? "I wanna sing-a, about the moon-a and the June-a and the Spring-a")

TWO
Nobody makes it any farther than this. You have to be a competitive race to make it to other worlds, but competitiveness within a species combined with large brain is NOT a survival trait. King of the hill? BOOM.

You aren't a pessimist. You're a REALIST. The universe is almost 20 BILLION years old. We've been here less than 40,000 years. You didn't actually think we would last FOREVER, did you?

I suggest a flower garden. Roses. Smell some.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. We have a choice

to work on sustainability or to keep our blinders on.

I personally think there will be a major breakdown of governments and laws, and that it is wise to learn to be self-sufficient. Learn who your neighbors are, build your communities around sharing and helping one another.

I also think it is very probable there will be a massive die-off of living beings. We just can't sustain the planet otherwise.

[ashling]

3. Yep, that was Twain

I have used that line several times here recently and will be using it in a paper I'm doing on the Gilded Age.

I think your next to the last paragraph is pretty on point. Is there a way out? I hope so, but maybe not.

I have issues, however with your premise.

It seems to me that we in the US should be greatly appreciative of the foresight of Thomas Jefferson and others, who snared the opportunity--when it presented itself--to enlarge our nation's borders westward to the ocean's edge.

I'm guessing that we were thus spared the centuries of warfare which Europe has endured, largely because, for so long, we had a vast area with vast resources beckoning a growing population westward, keeping internecine squabbles to a minimum. That expansion room--and a vast ocean separating us from Europe--also allowed us the time needed to incubate our Age of Enlightenment democratic experiment, tinker with it unimpeded by others, and make it viable.

it would be more accurate to say that Jefferson and others snared the opportunity to grab land from indigenous populations, ethnically clense the area, and repopulate it with European stock. This country has been on the course of empire since it won its independence from Britain. The first part was, by geographical accident, all on this continent.

The second part, from the Gilded Age onward, took us to Hawaii, Cuba, the Phillipines (where we honed our torture skills - they called it "the water cure" instead of waterboarding- 87% of the Generals w/ the U.S. Army in the Phillipines had honed their skills already on the American Plains at places like Sand Creek, Wounded Knee, ad nauseam) I'm sure that Native Americans are happy that we kept internecine squabbles to a minimum. :sarcasm:

T Jefferson had some fine ideals - to a point - and he was a great teacher. The Declaration of Independence was a fine syllabus for a course which was never offered. His land speculation and trade in slaves, along with Madison, Andrew Jackson, and others required expansion.

In the context of geopolitics vis a vis European imperialism, it made sense. In terms of the wholsale slaughter and degredation of peoples and cultures (Black, Red, Brown, and Yellow) it waws a travesty. But at least we kept internecine squabbles to a minimum.

Sorry to be so negative.