I swear, Dr. Howard Dean should have been president

[Taverner]

The way he handled this decision - comprimising without giving away the shop - is how a President SHOULD negotiate.

I swear - the wrong man won the nomination in 2004.

[ingac70]

1. I totally agree...

Perhaps he will run again some day.

[Taverner]

2. Perhaps. He's saving the party right now though.

An important job within itself.

[elizfeelinggreat]

3. Howard Dean was cheated

and so were we :(

[Obama4ever]

4. True that!

[MonkeyFunk]

10. Cheated?

How? Was it unfair that the people of Iowa didn't vote for him?

Sorry, I don't see any heroism on Dean's part today. The problem NEVER should've gotten to this point, and that's squarely on his shoulders. And the "compromise" is bullshit.

[NashVegas]

22. My Feeling Was

He was cheated when Kucinich cut the deal he did.

There was also the matter of how the Clintons called in Clark for a favor. I forgave them that. And that little matter of the Scream?

[LSK]

25. yyyyyeeeeaaaarrrrrrrggggg

As this primary has shown, not all contests are decided in Iowa. But they are when they use a one directional mic and label a candidate a screaming nut for a week.

[karynnj]

28. So, you are saying that Kerry would not have gotten

momentum from Iowa and still won NH? If you look at the NH polls, dean was already declining mostly to Clark. Kerry's win moved most of the undecided to him and he took a huge chunk of those who were tentatively for Clark - in addition to those already for him. (He was NOT the 20 points behind that Obama was - only 10 at most.)

The Iowa results were really 2 factors - Dean grossly underperformed because he was suppose to win and Kerry beat him by 20 points and Kerry had a big victory.

The problem AFTER NH was that Dean found he was nearly out of money and had no real operations in the 7 states that were up next - they were not "good" Dean states and he opted to concentrate on later states. Had those states split differently it could have worked. (Maybe resulting in Kerry with IA, NH, and DE and Clark with ND and OK and Edwards with SC and MO and maybe Dean getting NM and AZ. Then if Dean won the next series of hearthland states, he could be the frontrunner in a very close race before the big states even voted.) The point is that Dean needed Kerry stopped - when Kerry took 5 of the 7 states (none likely states for a MA Senator) he was very definitively the leader.

[MonkeyFunk]

33. He came in third in Iowa

after relying heavily on that state to give him a boost.

The scream was just icing - he was already effectively out of the race.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

39. MSM destroyed his chances and selected Kerry as our candidate.

[Lorien]

43. Yep. The corporations ultimately choose our candidates. They only allow us

the illusion of having participated in the choice.

[blm]

56. Bullshit - they wanted neither Dean or Kerry and they targeted Kerry long before Dean.

.

[blm]

55. Utter IGNORANCE - media targeted Kerry for takedown long before Dean as Kerry challenged FCC ruling

expansion in the Senate in June 2003. And many of you didn't even NOTICE that shortly after Kerry went up against the loosening of media ownership, the corporate media ASSIGNED A PRESS PLANE to Dean while Kerry was given a small van.

Kerry had to double his efforts to win Iowa with the media marginalizing his campaign at every turn.

Dean underperformed during the debates and the corpmedia never reported accurately the polls on the ground in Iowa - they over-reported Dean's as they under-reported Kerry's strength. The corporate media was DELIBERATELY MANIPULATING your perception of the state of the primary and YOU ALL LET THEM. You believed them when you WANTED to believe them.

The lies some of you have convinced yourselves helped cover up the REAL problems of 2004 and that was that McAuliffe's DNC never secured the election process after 2000s theft, and that Clintons and their loyalists were sabotaging the Kerry campaign the entire time.

Thank god Dean isn't delusional as some of you are - he knew he was losing before Iowa based on the internal polls which were accurate. THAT is why he never challenged the results.

IF any of you would ever PAY ATTENTION to what ACTUALLY goes on instead of BULLSHIT spin you latch onto, the Dems wouldn't have become slaves to Clintons over the last decade. They and their loyalists got away with PLENTY as you all were focused on the BULLSHIT you were fed. They needed both Kerry AND Dean ground down and fools like so many here ACCOMODATED that need - as if somehow Dean would have moiraculously had a different DNC to tap into in 2004 than the one Kerry was stuck with.



June 2, 2003
Kerry Seeks to Reverse FCC's "Wrongheaded Vote"

Commission Decision May Violate Laws Protecting Small Businesses; Kerry to File Resolution of Disapproval

WASHINGTON - Senator John Kerry today announced plans to file a "Resolution of Disapproval" as a means to overturn today's decision by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to raise media ownership caps and loosen various media cross-ownership rules. Kerry will soon introduce the resolution seeking to reverse this action under the Congressional Review Act and Small Business Regulatory Enforcement Fairness Act on the grounds that the decision may violate the laws intended to protect America's small businesses and allow them an opportunity to compete. As Ranking Member of the Senate Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship, Kerry expressed concern that the FCC's decision will hurt localism, reduce diversity, and will allow media monopolies to flourish. This raises significant concerns about the potential negative impacts the decision will have on small businesses and their ability to compete in today's media marketplace. In a statement released earlier today regarding the FCC's decision, Kerry said: "Nothing is more important in a democracy than public access to debates and information, which lift up our discourse and give Americans an opportunity to make honest informed choices. Today's wrongheaded vote by the Republican members of the FCC to loosen media ownership rules shows a dangerous indifference to the consolidation of power in the hands of a few large entities rather than promoting diversity and independence at the local level. The FCC should do more than rubber stamp the business plans of narrow economic interests. "Today's vote is a complete dereliction of duty. The Commissioners are well aware that these rules greatly influence the competitive structure of the industry and protect the public's access to multiple sources of information and media. It is the Commission's responsibility to ensure that the rules serve our national goals of diversity, competition, and localism in media. With today's vote, they shirked that responsibility and have dismissed any serious discussion about the impact of media consolidation on our own democracy."

[elizfeelinggreat]

41. How?

He wasn't given a fair chance by the media.

Extrapolate much?

[MonkeyFunk]

47. He got a ton of positive media attention

gobs of it. Covers on all the major magazines. He didn't translate that into votes in Iowa.

The media's job isn't to give "fair" attention to all announced candidates. It's the candidates' job to EARN media attention.

[elizfeelinggreat]

48. I think you should rant at someone else

I'm not interested. I have different opinions than you about many things and don't accept your definitions.


Have a nice day.

[MonkeyFunk]

52. You consider that a rant?

Your sensibilities might be too delicate for the internet. Perhaps you should take up knitting.

[DAGDA56]

5. I agree...especially sad when you consider that it all hinged on one

badly placed microphone. Today he really made the most of what could have been a really bad situation for him personally.

[Taverner]

6. Not only that, but he saved the party

From someone who's had experience in negotiation, he did an awesome job.

Just think if he could have met with Israel and Palestine? Cuba and the CANF? England and Argentina? Sri Lanka and the Tamil Tigers?

[Kaleko]

27. Oh, now you're making me sniffle with wistfulness. Dean would have been great

[karynnj]

24. No it didn't

Dean already lost Iowa 18% to Kerry's 38%. The CW was that he and Gephardt would be one and two - either order. Instead, he was a poor third to Kerry and Edwards. Had there NOT been that scream, let's speculate what would happen. The stories likely would have been:

1) Kerry's surprisingly strong win
2) That Dean and Gephardt did not live up to expectations.
3) That Edwards did much better than expected.

The first would have been covered by Kerry's victory speech - where he was exuberant (as must winners are) and he and his family were surrounded by firemen and veterans - sending the message that he could help us. That and any review of how he won - ie Rassman reunion etc would all have been plus Kerry.

The second would likely have been a series of clips of Dean and Gephardt attacking each other and things like Dean telling an old heckler to sit down. It likely would also have argued that the early Dean appeal was possibly internet hype. This would be negative re Dean.

The third, would be smaller, but it would be plus Edwards.

The next contest was NH, where Dean was already slipping earlier when Clark entered. You would expect that Kerry would gain momentum from Iowa and that Dean would lose some of those "picking the winner". In fact, that is just what happened, though most of Kerry's gain came from undecided and Clark, who was imploding. Kerry beat Dean by 12 points - I see no reason to think that this would not have happened with the normal coverage. (In fact, there likely would have been MORE Kerry coverage if the media had no shiny toy to play with.

The next event was the first multi-state day - DE, MO, SC, NM, AZ, OK and ND. Dean basically said after NH that he was not really competing in any of them but would concentrate on later states. His entire strategy was win Iowa and NH - causing Gephardt and Kerry to drop out as neither would have money or reason to continue. Losing Iowa gave Kerry the momentum and money, not him. Kerry then did far better than expected on that first multistate day. (In fact, in reality after that day the nomination was Kerry's unless something major happened.) Dean was further hurt because Trippi blew $40 million on Iowa and NH leaving Dean with little money.

[JI7]

30. he had already lost Iowa when that happened

and it wasn't just Kerry either. John Edwards beat Dean by coming in 2nd.

[eridani]

32. Not really. Dean lost Iowa before that particular bit of MSM nonsense

Kerry had the ground game in Iowa, which is why he won.

[MonkeyFunk]

34. No, it didn't all hinge on that

he had already lost Iowa, in a big way, at that point.

It's rewriting history to claim the scream did him in. It affected his reputation, but had little impact on the race itself.

[PassingFair]

72. Iowa isn't everything.

I don't think Clinton (Bill)
won Iowa, either.

It is the first of many.

The "scream" was the killing dagger,
AFTER the media had portrayed him
as crazy.

[madokie]

7. I've been out of the loop today

how or what did he/they decide about michigan and florida delegates. I take it thats what you're talking about. TIA

[DFW]

8. I just left him three hours ago

And I was reminded of the veracity, once again, of your observation.

[TheFarseer]

9. yeah, loved Dr. Dean and still do

he was against the war when it wasn't cool yet. He's a guy that stood for something. I like Kerry too, but he was a fence sitter on alot of issues and just not an inspiring candidate.

[blm]

57. Bull spin. You can't name a braver lawmaker in DC than John Kerry has been and if you can't find

inspiration in the best advocate this nation has had for open government issues and the man who risked his life and career the most to uncover more government corruption than any lawmaker in modern history, then I would say that shows a deficiency in you.

The media SUCCEEDED in misinforming you about Kerry and you are hanging your hat on their lies.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. I love Howard.

We are lucky to have him.

[Triana]

12. Hell yea. He should have. He was destroyed by the Repig-loyal lamestream media...

...for being excited and happy, of all things.

[Carolina]

13. Completely agree!

[Vickers]

14. In my limited observation, he inspired more liberals to action than any recent

Democrat, and yes I am including the current crop.

I know of a lot of people who had never donated to or worked for liberal causes/campaigns until he came along. He got (and continues to get) people motivated.

[Lisa0825]

19. I'm one of them.

And I have stayed involved ever since. And several of my local Deaniacs are also still heavily involved. We really changed the way our local Democratic party operates.

[Kaleko]

29. Ahem. That's me.

Inspired by Dean's integrity, I re-engaged in the political process. Despite the fact that systemic corruption has a way of making me physically sick.

But hey, this is the greatest crisis-opportunity the US has ever faced. And we're all affected, globally. Want it or not, we're part of a massive systemic transition.

[lligrd]

15. And How Did We Lose Him?

One ridiculously, taken out of context scream. That was his sin? I'm still friggen pissed off over that. And he has done an excellent job in this election and still gets chit on by fellow Dems.

[Lorien]

44. The MSM can destroy ANY candidate at will

they had millions more chances with B*sh, but he was their sugar daddy. That's why we'll never have another president who is there to serve American citizens, not just American corporate interests.

[lligrd]

53. Exactly Why Corporations Should Not Be Allowed To Own The

media. Doesn't take an Einstein to figure that out.

[MonkeyFunk]

54. LOL

so the government should do what - mandate that all media are collectively-owned by the people? By the government acting on behalf of the people?

[Howler]

16. Here ! Here! N/T

[guruoo]

17. Absolutely.

[mzmolly]

18. He's doing a great job

as the DNC chair. :hi:

[bermudat]

20. Amen to that!

[NashVegas]

21. I Could Have Told You That Four Years Ago - No, Wait, I Did

[shanti]

23. i've always believed this!

you go, dr. dean!

[EFerrari]

26. If he'd been elected, we wouldn't have him as DNC chair

and I can't think of anyone who could be doing the job he's doing. He's re-invented this party. :shrug:

[eridani]

31. A blessing in disguise that he has implemented the 50 state strategy

Hey, I'll take it.

[Lugnut]

35. A lot of us tried like heck to get him there.

I'd still support his candidacy.

[Donkey_Punch_Dubya]

36. Do you guys think he would've gotten more GE votes than Kerry?

I don't. Dean would've been swiftboated more than Kerry and by October 2004 the GOP and MSM would've convinced 50 million people that Dean was an unstable, America-hating dangerous radical. Of course it would be all lies and BS but Dean played into the success of their kind of dirty attacks.

They had to work overtime to turn war hero, thoughtful Kerry into a flip-flopping, elitist Navy medal trasher. Kerry was uninspiring, slightly uncool and too stuffy all by himself, though. Basically the opposite of Obama in that way.

[travelingtypist]

37. If he hadn't spoken out loud what he was planning to do

with the media monopolies, he probably would have been the
nominee.

Instead we got the endless loop of the amplified Dean Scream
and in waltzed the elitist war hero with his gorgeous sugar
mama. Who knew?

[karynnj]

64. Dean came from a wealthier background than Kerry - He grew up on Park Ave - overlooking Central Park

and Kerry was not enough of an elitist to pull strings to get out of serving. To call a person like Teresa Heinz a "sugar mama" is stupid and RW. If you saw the Kerrys on their book tour, you would know the type of work that she has done on green building and on funding work on environmental toxins and women's health. She is brilliant, as well as very attractive.

The endless Dean loop followed Dean losing a race people though he would win - Kerry beat him by 20 points. The scream likely just replaced analysis of why he lost - that would have focused on every bad moment in Iowa, ignoring the good.

[travelingtypist]

68. And Teresa damn well did NOT want to be in front of the

hot kleig lights any more.

Kerry parading around in that windsurfing outfit fairly well clanged "elitist, elitist" for the whole world to see.

I will never forgive John Kerry for saying "count all of the votes" and then conceding three seconds after the polls closed. He can go to hell as far as I'm concerned.

[blm]

70. Do you know how to use NUMBERS? Kerry had the slowest concession history.

Gore conceded on election night with a fewer vote differential of what he believed was a 50,000 lead for Bush than Kerry did when he conceded the following morning with a 137,000 vote difference.

Or did you forget that Gore only UNCONCEDED when the math changed?

Why pretend that Kerry conceded immediately when there is ample proof he had the SLOWEST concession in american history?

Does it make you feel better to distort as long as it's against Kerry?

Do you know much about your nation and its recent history of governance? Can you name the lawmaker who risked his life and career the most to target and uncover more government corruption than any other lawmaker in modern history?

[karynnj]

71. 12 hours is not 3 seconds and there still is no case that could have been challanged

Windsurfing is not elitist - other than if you consider elite to refer just to those athletic enough to do it. As to the appearance, do you remember the pictures of Clinton jogging in tight shorts in 1992? That was worse by far. Kerry was wearing what everyone else windsurfing in the northern Atlantic wore. As to "parading around", he wore that for the few hours he windsurfed. I guess you prefer cleaning brush and falling off mountain bikes.


As to Teresa, she was very hurt by the attacks from Republicans many of whom had been her friends for generations. She had no sought the "kleig lights", but she did do the book tour with her husband and has campaigned for Obama. In addition to being someone Michelle Obama has been able to talk to when she's been attacked.

[blm]

69. There wasn't any Dem on record against media monopolies more than John Kerry who targetted the FCC

rulings in the senate in June 2003. Shortly after Kerry sought to overturn the FCC rulings the corporate media decided to give Dean a press plane. Something unheard of that early in a primary race. Kerry was reduced to one small van.

The truth is that media was going to take down any nominee for Bush. But they definitely targeted Kerry long before they went after Dean by December 2003. They just believed Kerry was already knocked down enough by then.


Kerry Seeks to Reverse FCC's "Wrongheaded Vote"

Commission Decision May Violate Laws Protecting Small Businesses; Kerry to File Resolution of Disapproval

Monday, June 2, 2003

WASHINGTON - Senator John Kerry today announced plans to file a "Resolution of Disapproval" as a means to overturn today's decision by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to raise media ownership caps and loosen various media cross-ownership rules.

Kerry will soon introduce the resolution seeking to reverse this action under the Congressional Review Act and Small Business Regulatory Enforcement Fairness Act on the grounds that the decision may violate the laws intended to protect America's small businesses and allow them an opportunity to compete.

As Ranking Member of the Senate Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship, Kerry expressed concern that the FCC's decision will hurt localism, reduce diversity, and will allow media monopolies to flourish. This raises significant concerns about the potential negative impacts the decision will have on small businesses and their ability to compete in today's media marketplace.

In a statement released earlier today regarding the FCC's decision, Kerry said:

"Nothing is more important in a democracy than public access to debates and information, which lift up our discourse and give Americans an opportunity to make honest informed choices. Today's wrongheaded vote by the Republican members of the FCC to loosen media ownership rules shows a dangerous indifference to the consolidation of power in the hands of a few large entities rather than promoting diversity and independence at the local level. The FCC should do more than rubber stamp the business plans of narrow economic interests.

"Today's vote is a complete dereliction of duty. The Commissioners are well aware that these rules greatly influence the competitive structure of the industry and protect the public's access to multiple sources of information and media. It is the Commission's responsibility to ensure that the rules serve our national goals of diversity, competition, and localism in media. With today's vote, they shirked that responsibility and have dismissed any serious discussion about the impact of media consolidation on our own democracy."

[travelingtypist]

74. Hey kerrybots -- I fucking hate him, okay?

No amount of bullshit excuse you can make will ever make he forgive him for walking away after 2 hours or 12 hours or 36 fucking days, like Al Gore fought before the SCOTUS squashed him.

Leave it alone.

[Unbowed]

38. Kerry was the right nominee. Dean wouldn't have had a chance of winning the general.

It would have been the same result had Dean been the nominee but with a much larger margin of victory for Shrub. This is just how the lay of the land was at that time.

That said, Dean is still young and his qualifications and national profile are greater than they were in 2004. He might well decide to run again. And he would make a fine POTUS. He's certainly a fine Democrat.

[tabasco]

40. The media reaction to the "Dean scream" showed us how we are manipulated in this country

by the corporate media.

It was nothing more than an Army "hooooahhhh" and he was made to look like a crazy person by the whore media.

We are approaching "1984" and it will take some good leadership to keep us from going down the road to hell.

[Individualist]

60. ...and voters still allow themselves to be manipulated by media and corporations

Until they stop allowing it, nothing will change.

[Fox Mulder]

42. There are a few people who should have been president.

[Taverner]

51. FTR Kerry would have made a damn fine president too

[leeroysphitz]

45. You said it!

But the will have their mediocrity. :(

[KharmaTrain]

46. He's Done Far More As DNC Chair

Would I support Howard Dean for President? Hell yes. But in his case, his loss in '04 was our gain. His 50 state strategy has rejuvenated the Democratic party and has put it in a real strong position for November. Those nose-pickers in Mississippi would still be picking their noses had McAuliffe (who was an awful DNC Chair) was still in power...instead we have a House seat and stand a strong chance to win a Senate one in November.

He's influenced a "generation" of new Democrats and his contributions have been a bright light in some of the darkest times. While I hope he remains with the DNC after the election, I could also see him having a bright future in whatever venture he chooses. In many ways, Obama's success has been via Dean's blueprint...that's quite a legacy.

[Phred42]

49. Agree n/t

[blondeatlast]

50. Just when I thought it was safe in GD.

Dammit--the Lounge is boring, but I may have to check it out again.

[Pastiche423]

58. W/o a doubt, he should have been president!

He was the 1st candidate since McGovern that truly excited me. I, along w/a dear friend (who has since passed) opened Dean Meetups in two towns. We campaigned our hearts out.

I am so proud of his 50 state strategy and for all the hard work he has done for our party in the past four years.

I :loveya: Dr. Dean!

[tblue37]

59. I agree. I always was for Dean in the 2004 primary. n/t

[mopinko]

61. howard dean and barack obama- a match made in heaven.

they are gonna blow the doors off those thugs.
thank you howard, thank you joe trippi for tapping into the net roots. you changed the world.

[avenger64]

62. They caught Saddam Hussein the week before Dean's ...

... fabricated 'meltdown'. That's what killed him - the media and the DLC were looking for an excuse to drive him off.

[flvegan]

63. Really?

Why hasn't he put his "power" behind impeachment and ending the war?

See, THAT is what a proper contender should do.

Spineless as the rest. Sorry.

[XemaSab]

65. Word

n/t

[magnificent9]

66. unelectable, simply put

[LiberalAndProud]

67. Ironic.

I just came from GD :P to find a little sanity, and here's an OP refighting the 2004 primary wars. Just for the record Howard Dean or John Kerry would have been a far better fate for U.S.

[Hola]

73. Kerry is a fine man, and an excellent candidate

But I agree, Dean would have been a fantastic President.

But he did make several mistakes in his campaign - going negative early, the 'scream'. That stuff sunk him.